Thanks |CEMAN who posted this in our Back page news section. He stumbled on yet another striking evidence that Windows Messenger will be phased out. Windows XP users have been waiting patiently for the Windows Messenger update since November when MSN 8 and MSN Messenger 5 was released to the public for Windows PC's other than (the no longer supported Windows 95 and) Windows XP. Windows XP users were greeted with update notifications only to later realize that MSN Messenger was installed next to Windows Messenger which was in many cases still active and present on the system. Little thought -it seems, had gone into the migration for Windows XP users. Was it to be a Windows Messenger update or not? The web-based newsgroups for Windows Messenger seemed to be split on this decision. Some saying Yes others saying No. No official response has been announced. Only that pop-up reminders and now disappearing tabs seem to be serving as an un-official decision from Redmond.

It has also been mentioned a few times that Microsoft were forced to drop Windows Messenger integration in Windows XP and all future OS (like Longhorn and Blackcomb) but while searching for this in official documents on Presspass.com I couldn't come up with the goods. Only statements that Windows Messenger was NOT forced on users of Windows XP any differently than a AOL INTERNET connection and its AIM service.

So is Windows Messenger going? Are we going to be forced to take on board MSN Messenger that really isn't tied in as Windows Messenger (Remote Assistance is absent on MSN 5 for XP) If anyone can share more on this subject maybe we can try to get an answer once and for all.

I have included quotations and a screen-shot of what tab users of Windows Messenger get now.

View: Civil Action No. 98-1232 (CKK) FINAL JUDGMENT (November 12, 2002)
View: Windows XP users are directed here (MSN Messenger)
News source: Microsoft PressPass (unless stated otherwise)

Below is a quote taken from Microsoft Settlement Program Milestones August 2002, nowhere in the document is suggested that Windows Messenger will be removed or "dis-associated" from Windows XP.
Microsoft's new feature is called "Set Program Access and Defaults." Consumers may launch this feature from the Start menu and from the existing Add or Remove Programs utility in Windows XP and Windows 2000 Pro. It will allow OEMs and consumers to enable or remove access to the Windows components designated as "Microsoft Middleware Products" under the consent decree (Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, Outlook Express and the Microsoft Java VM) and to competing third-party programs that choose to take advantage of this feature. It will also enable OEMs and consumers to set the default programs they want to launch in certain instances where the Windows components would otherwise launch. For example, when a consumer clicks to open certain media files or a Web site address from within an email message, the respective default media player or default browser program will launch.
Source: Microsoft Settlement Program Milestones August 2002

Here David Cole defends the Windows Messenger service in Windows XP and compares it to another IM service that actually requires registration while Passport does not. Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
47. Windows XP does not require the user to have or use a Passport. Nor is a Passport required to access the Internet through a Windows XP-based Internet connec­tion. Windows XP does offer users the choice to sign up for a Passport to take advantage of several optional services offered by Windows XP that require user authentication. Those services include the Windows Messenger instant messaging service and some aspects of Windows XP online product support. Similarly, America Online’s instant messaging service, AOL Instant Messenger or “AIM,” requires users to register for America Online’s Screen Name Service.

54. Mr. Borthwick testified that “if the user initially declines to sign up for Passport, Microsoft will repeatedly prompt the user with the ‘Add your .NET Passport to Windows’ message in the lower right corner of the desktop.” (Borthwick Direct ¶ 83.) That testimony is an overstatement. If the user ignores the balloon the first time it appears, the balloon will soon disappear (about 20 seconds) from the desktop. The user then will see the balloon again on the next four connections to the Internet. That is it. After a user sees the Passport wizard the first time, either by clicking on the balloon or by launching Windows Messenger, the balloon tip will never appear again. This is true even if the user cancels out of the Passport wizard and chooses not to create a Passport.

59. Lastly, users do not have to register for a Passport to use Windows XP, and connections to the Internet using Windows XP likewise do not require a Passport. Windows XP simply offers users the choice to sign up for a Passport to take advantage of certain services offered by Windows XP, such as the Windows Messenger instant messaging service, that require user authentication.
Source: STATE OF NEW YORK ex. rel. Attorney General ELIOT SPITZER, et al., v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION

and here we have the Civil Action No. 98-1232 (CKK) FINAL JUDGMENT (November 12, 2002). I couldn't find anything in this recent document that says Windows Messenger should be dis-continued.


There are 35 additional comments
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Quote this comment Reply to this comment #1 Posted by wildliquid on 01 Jan 2003 - 15:37
i have little doubt that it will me phased out
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #2 Posted by creamhackered on 01 Jan 2003 - 15:40
Like I told ya ages ago, Windows Messenger is ending
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #3 Posted by Galley_SimRacer on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:01
What about remote assistance, whiteboarding, and all those other features? Will they still work in MSN 5?
Quote this comment #3.1 Posted by dismuter on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:05
They're all in MSN Messenger 5.
Quote this comment #3.2 Posted by DJ^TuRKiYe on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:16
[neoquote=#3.1 by dismuter]They're all in MSN Messenger 5.[/neoquote] they won't work if Windows Messenger isn't installed
Quote this comment #3.3 Posted by xStainDx on 01 Jan 2003 - 19:20
Remote Assistance can still be executed the normal way via Help And Support or via the "Remote Assistance" Icon in your start menu...
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #4 Posted by andrewfee on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:02
i dont have any problem with windows messenger being fazed out, but i hope they add in the features that require it into MSN messenger 5, so i can uninstall windows messenger fully
Quote this comment #4.1 Posted by Neobond on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:08
This is the problem, you can't un-install it. You can only remove links to it in XP
Quote this comment #4.2 Posted by andrewfee on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:44
you actually [b]can[/b] uninstall it by running this (just use the run dialogue) RunDll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%INFmsmsgs.inf,BLC.Remove
Quote this comment #4.3 Posted by Neobond on 01 Jan 2003 - 17:12
Yea we know this trick to un-install, but its not the "right" or correct way to do it from Windows XP which is my point. I also know you can remove IE and DirectX and Windows Media Player from Windows, but you wont find the instructions anywhere on Microsoft.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #5 Posted by Jasur on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:38
I prefer Windows Messenger. Just more sleeker, not as bulky for me as MSN Messenger is and more integrated. As Galley said, if MSN Messenger contains whiteboard, remote assistance and just the same features as Windows Messenger, then i would change.
(5 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #6 Posted by warr on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:38
windows messenger is another monopoly act by microsoft. it is the same way that IE was done. if you see it, you may not care about that. if you really know what this windows messenger means on xpee, thinking of the way IE became dominant. well, i doubt windows users realize this.
Quote this comment #6.1 Posted by creamhackered on 01 Jan 2003 - 16:56
[neoquote=#6.0 by warr]windows messenger is another monopoly act by microsoft. it is the same way that IE was done. if you see it, you may not care about that. if you really know what this windows messenger means on xpee, thinking of the way IE became dominant. well, i doubt windows users realize this. [/neoquote] I don't think any computer user will understand what you just said
Quote this comment #6.2 Posted by Neobond on 01 Jan 2003 - 17:09
[quote]windows messenger is another monopoly act by microsoft.[/quote] I disagree, why shouldn't Microsoft be able to ship its Operating Systems with communication software that links up its userbase. The only thing that might be monopolistic is that they allow Mac, Linux and another platform to login to its service (which I think is more of a convienience than a monopoly, [b]but hey who am I right? I'm just the customer[/b] - you know, the customers most US states, AOL, Lindows and any other 2 bit crappy company that I'd never BUY software from are tryng to "protect" from Microsofts dominance.
Quote this comment #6.3 Posted by underscorebios on 01 Jan 2003 - 17:56
Damn, right on the nose. I was just thinking the same thing, it drives me positively mad that first ppl what to remove anything integrated into the OS and now they complain about something being removed from it. To me all this "states vs microsoft" thing is just a damn joke now and look at what it's starting to do, i for one whant my browser, my messenger and whatnot integrated in the OS, and c'mon ppl don't tell me M$ is shoving them down your throat cuz in the end the decision to use them or not is really up to YOU.
Quote this comment #6.4 Posted by uniacid on 01 Jan 2003 - 20:43
exactly under, why would someone want to remove IE or Messenger anyways, IMO IE is the best browser, and if someone doesnt wanna use messenger just disable it sheesh, its not a monopoly, who doesnt want things already intergrated to the os, so they dont have to install 3rd party software, or waste money for them. Messenger isnt fading
Quote this comment #6.5 Posted by Rambo2000 on 01 Jan 2003 - 23:27
The problem is guys that as good as it sounds to have msn and IE built in the OS is not very good for competions, Microsoft have a big advantage knowing that most people will use whats built in the OS, it's easier with it built in but it's unfair to competions, a lot of the people don't even know there is a diffrent browers or messenger out there they can get, they stick whats in the OS most people, and thats what a monopoly is. You have to look at it from the people that are clueless about these things, Microsoft wins hands down because they own the OS, where that wouldn't be the case if this was Linux, the best messenger and browser would be picked depending on there choice in the distrus, which is very good for competions because others will try harder to inprove there software where by not half of them probaly don't see any point because Microsoft make it hard to get in.
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #7 Posted by n3Mo on 01 Jan 2003 - 17:38
I belive that in future versions of Windows both Windows Messenger and Internet Explorer be removed and replaced by MSN Explorer and MSN Messenger.
Quote this comment #7.1 Posted by pctuk on 01 Jan 2003 - 19:30
Just as a guess: perhaps Messenger and IE will be the products built into the OS (sort of like a "light" version) with MSN Explorer and MSN Messenger subscription based?
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #8 Posted by frazell on 01 Jan 2003 - 18:54
MSN 5 is exactly like Windows Messenger on XP it contains remote assistance and all other features. MS Most likley relized they have to maintain legacy compatibility and the universe isnt all on XP. But MSN 5 is exactly as powerful as Windows Messenger on XP.
Quote this comment #8.1 Posted by Spyder on 01 Jan 2003 - 19:16
[neoquote=#8.0 by frazell]MSN 5 is exactly like Windows Messenger on XP it contains remote assistance and all other features. MS Most likley relized they have to maintain legacy compatibility and the universe isnt all on XP. But MSN 5 is exactly as powerful as Windows Messenger on XP.[/neoquote] bing..oops, sorry, wrong! if you uninstall windows messenger using the run command above, you'll find that MSN Messenger 5 does not have remote assistance, etc built in.
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #9 Posted by DrOmango on 01 Jan 2003 - 21:09
Yea that is a great idea, microsoft should get rid of all those junks out of windows, put it on a different software like an addon cd.. FOR FREE like cd 1 is windows os, cd 2 is addons. they should take out windows messenger out of windows and other useless crap that people not may use... BUT I BEG THEM, dont get rid of Internet Explorer .. its a tight prog now if msn takes over, how heck and i gonna put proxy on it!?!??!?
Quote this comment #9.1 Posted by jkuy9 on 02 Jan 2003 - 11:14
They should just make the install customisable! Why cant the install be like a *NIX install? I would still pic to install IE, OE and WMP s I find them to be the best (well WinAmp 2.81 for just MP3 but WMP for video). Also wouldnt having a custom install get some of the lawsuits dropped? They could also charge companies for having their program as an option in the install!
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #10 Posted by ChadyzGroove on 01 Jan 2003 - 21:49
yeah my MSN 5 has remote assistance and whiteboard and all that good stuff so i dont know what is up
Quote this comment #10.1 Posted by Ravager on 02 Jan 2003 - 06:40
That's because you also have Windows Messenger installed. All the features will work on MSN 5 [b]as long[/b] as you have Windows Messenger installed. It doesn't have to be on, only installed. Once it's installed, you can use the features like Remote Assistance and Whiteboard on MSN 5. If you remove Windows Messenger and try to access these components within MSN 5, you'll get an error message saying you must install Windows Messenger to enable the missing features.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #11 Posted by finalcoolman on 01 Jan 2003 - 22:21
Windows Messenger is not going anywhere. Microsoft MVP Jonathan Kay recently stated that Windows Messenger 5 is in development but however its release date is currently unknown.
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #12 Posted by Justin03248 on 02 Jan 2003 - 02:01
mvp? haha
Quote this comment #12.1 Posted by JaggedFlame on 02 Jan 2003 - 03:22
What?
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #13 Posted by Solarix on 02 Jan 2003 - 06:50
geez what a shame , wonder what microshaft will do next, revoke the usage of minesweeper
Quote this comment #13.1 Posted by pctuk on 02 Jan 2003 - 12:59
As long as they don't take away Freecell!
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #14 Posted by SMG on 02 Jan 2003 - 08:37
I will still use Windows Messenger, I don't like the new MSN 5 because: (a) The visual interface is not as good, it's bloated with special graphics when I prefer the standard windows look. (b) A LACK OF API, I can't use any of my favourite programs like Messenger Plus! Extension (although an MSN 5 compatable version is expected in a few days) (c) It keeps perstering me to send my personal information to Microsoft (so called 'customer improvement program') (d) Can't customise tabs and the only useful tab was McAfee because it provided good information for computer experts such as myself but that has been taken away. (e) It has banner ads, it used to have ads from just Microsoft that were harmless but now they are selling ad-space to other parties. Ad-aware's ad-watch is always detecting 'bad' cookies from it and it has occasional [b]popups[/b]! even after I disabled the MSN Today popup (that is on by default which means that most poor novices have to have MSN today) and I dislike using cracks. (f) No matter how I disable Windows Messenger, it still comes up when I go into sites that use it's api like hotmail.com and it comes up when I use Outlook Express. (g) It's too dependant of Windows Messenger, it won't work properly without it and API still wont work when Windows Messenger is uninstalled or MSN5 is pasted on top of the c:progam filesmessenger directory. (h) No add-ins, there goes my dreams of there ever being a neowin add-in. The only improvement that I've seen is that it's more clear to see when a contact is offine because the thing has a yellow background that's easier to see. And what the hell is an MVP??
Quote this comment #14.1 Posted by Neobond on 02 Jan 2003 - 11:15
I concur with all those points and its the reason I have gone back to 4.7 and mvp is Microsoft Verified Partner I believe.
Quote this comment #14.2 Posted by pctuk on 02 Jan 2003 - 13:01
[neoquote=#14.0 by SMG](f) No matter how I disable Windows Messenger, it still comes up when I go into sites that use it's api like hotmail.com and it comes up when I use Outlook Express.[/neoquote] As a quick fix to this I renamed the Windows Messenger executable and aren't annoyed by it. Not right or proper but it works.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #15 Posted by y_notm on 02 Jan 2003 - 20:11
WM isn't going anywhere unless MSNM gets the ability to connect to exchange networks... that was the big difference between it and MSN.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #16 Posted by Eric Ferleman on 02 Jan 2003 - 22:59
I'm happy with Windows Messenger 4.7. All my Tabs are still present and working for me. Despite the fact that I rarely use them, except for maybe Alerts.

Last edited by 7725 on 02 Jan 2003 - 23:21
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