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Chinese-American Engineer & Family Charged With Data Theft

Shane Pitman   on 16 November 2005 - 01:46 · 50 comments & 2997 views

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A grand jury indictment filed on Tuesday alleges that Chi Mak, a lead engineer for Anaheim defense contractor Power Paragon, took computer disks containing sensitive information pertaining to several U.S. Navy projects and conspired with members of his family to smuggle the information to China.

Chi Mak, 65, his wife, and his brother, all Chinese-American immigrants, were indicted on Tuesday and charged with operating as agents of a foreign government without prior notification to the U.S. attorney general.

News source: Journal Advocate - Associated Press


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(4 replies) #1 SkankyGangs7a on 16 Nov 2005 - 02:01
QUOTE
charged with operating as agents of a foreign government without prior notification to the U.S. attorney general.


So it's all sweet as long as I tell your attorney general. Geez the guy should've just fessed up in the first place.
#1.1 Airlink on 16 Nov 2005 - 02:28
Um, since Chi Mak didn't have PRC diplomacy corps credentials, if he claimed to be an agent of the Chinese government his claim would have been dismissed and the notification would have been null & void. He would have them been placed on a "suspicious activity watchlist" by the FBI and possibly arested, deported, held indefinately under the so-called "Patriot" anti-terorism act... or simply disapeared into a CIA-run "Black Site." So Chi Mak, not being a moron, kept his mouth shut.
Since all this falls under the blanket of "National Security" I take the whole report with a grain of salt. I'll consider believing that Chi Mak is a spy right after Bush & Co. find those WMDs they said they were looking for. Yep, those darn WMDs are really hard to find, aren't they. But, with the friendly Jihadists willing to blow themselves up to help the american GI's look for WMDs, it won't be long. Yep, any decade now.
#1.2 Shining Arcanine on 16 Nov 2005 - 03:08
If he had honestly come forward and said that he was working for the Chinese Communist Regime, he wouldn't have had access to top secret files in the first place. Since at the time he had likely ties with the Chinese Regime and was working with top secret information he was probably being closed monitored. Hence why they caught him.
#1.3 SkankyGangs7a on 16 Nov 2005 - 03:59
I was being sarcastic it just looked funny.
#1.4 Daffy_Duck on 16 Nov 2005 - 16:43
Personally, I think this guy and others in the past are just showing how weak our system of information protection is. It should be a warning that more care needs to be taken and possibly changes need to me made to increase security. Unfortunately, this is one of those crimes that people think they can get away with and probably often do get away with and so making an example out of this guy with overly harsh punishment is not likely to prevent others from trying to do the same thing.

I think they need better hiring practices for one thing. If you are going to hire someone that is handling sensitive data that is from another country, you probably want to make sure they are integrated into the society of your country. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from doing harm but it reduces the likelyhood. This weeding out process could be accomplished through interviews with friends, colleagues, family.
#2 tiwaris on 16 Nov 2005 - 02:21
In such cases (cases relating to national security), you are assumed guilty until proven innocent.
#3 LTD on 16 Nov 2005 - 03:03
This happens all the time. Military secrets are the most fleeting of all.

Mak got caught. Simple as that.
#4 Colonel_Angus on 16 Nov 2005 - 03:11
Removed

Last edited by 28781 on 16 Nov 2005 - 03:51
(5 replies) #5 Epimetheus on 16 Nov 2005 - 04:31
QUOTE
Treason is not a crime to be taken lightly and they were caught red handed. They were agents of a foriegn regime performing military intelligence as United States citizens. Such actions endanger the lives of all Americans and the capability of the nation to continue to exist as such. Our founding fathers knew that, and with such knowledge they specified the punishment for the only crime they mentioned within the Consitution, treason.

shihchiun, they were caught red handed, regardless of what the books say.

rm20010, by commiting treason they were knowingly and willingly endangering the lives of all Americans, which is similar to attempted mass homocide but far more severe.

Quick Reply, tell that to the communists, who ordered Tienamen square, who recently slaughtered an entire village in China because they converted to Catholicism, who are building up their military to fight a foe that according to them does not exist (i.e. they plan to fight the free people of the world, so that they can gradually enslave millions like the Soviet Union before them), who send tens of millions of children to forced labor camps where they do manual labor over a dozen hours a day under the hot sun, who authorized the use of physical punishment in their school system (i.e. the guys get kicked between the legs when they misbehave; I don't know what happens to the girls, my cousin in China didn't tell me when I was visiting) and so on and so forth (do you really need more information? I could provide it if you want, the list of attrocities commited in China and aggressive behavior committed by China grows longer as the days pass by). My father emigrated here from China, and I can tell you, that anyone willing to sell out this great country to those monsters, doesn't deserve to live.


Then why have you not yet hung your President? Who has commited treason by releasing a CIA Agents name, and endangering the American public by releasing classified infomation such as that?
#5.1 gunnerhkjp on 16 Nov 2005 - 06:32
because he's not Chinese
#5.2 ZeroBS on 16 Nov 2005 - 06:47
^ lol
#5.3 frankchn on 16 Nov 2005 - 11:20
and an non-official cover agent at that.
#5.4 Jonny6pak on 16 Nov 2005 - 14:20
Not that I'm defending the guy, but I don't believe it was Bush who released the CIA agent's name. Also, it would be hard to classify releasing a CIA agent's name as treason. I believe more would have to be involved to move it into the realms of treason. I'm sure there's US Code and case law involved that I have no interest in reading, but basing the argument solely in the Constitution wouldn't justify a treason action in the CIA agent name issue.

QUOTE
U.S. Constitution: Article III, Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.


Additionally, under your argument we would have to hang the majoirty of the media for reporting military strategy/positioning in Iraq. I just think it's much more complicated an issue.
#5.5 bluarash on 16 Nov 2005 - 15:27
Hardly, you might want to take a look at the Pentagon Papers. The news media in many instances the military (government) would not be able to meet the burden of proof required to keep something top secret. If the information is leak in most instances the media is free to publish it.
#6 Dark_INk on 16 Nov 2005 - 04:33
Wen ho lee did fine.
(1 reply) #7 Fighter-X on 16 Nov 2005 - 04:33
Whats the Chinese Government trying to pull here?
#7.1 gunnerhkjp on 16 Nov 2005 - 06:31
They are trying to catch up with the US.
(4 replies) #8 Digitaholic on 16 Nov 2005 - 05:11
QUOTE
Wen ho lee did fine.


He was singled out for racial profiling..

QUOTE
Whats the Chinese Government trying to pull here?


I swear, everytime this forum has news from asia or mentions asians, nothing but stupid stereotypes.

#8.1 veltgen on 16 Nov 2005 - 09:17
<removed>

Last edited by 12010 on 16 Nov 2005 - 20:06
#8.2 rm20010 on 16 Nov 2005 - 15:48
<removed>

Seriously, it isn't so much about the people, but it's their government. They make news every time their government keeps the behaviour of the public under control, i.e. censorship of the Internet. It's just that too many people here think communism = pure evil, end of story, no ifs ands or buts, thank God for the USA.

Last edited by 12010 on 16 Nov 2005 - 20:06
#8.3 Daffy_Duck on 16 Nov 2005 - 17:04
The majority of Americans have been indoctrinated to think the Communism = evil. I am certainly not in support of Communism and hope to see democracy in China but at least I've learned that saying Communism=evil is too much of a simplification. Actually, I think the government of China should be renamed to something other than communism since it no longer follows the rules expoused by Marx and Engles. It is no longer a classless society. The heaviest class seperation currently being between the haves that live in the cities and the have-nots that live in the countryside.
#8.4 AionXn_ on 16 Nov 2005 - 22:15
i agree...so many stereotypes
(1 reply) #9 ThunderRiver on 16 Nov 2005 - 05:42
Digitaholic,

If you consider that as stereotypes, you have no idea what I can stereotype my own race as Asian/Pacific Islander. Those Chinese theives should be punished to the extreme if proven guilty. They should not even come to United States in the first place if they have any intention to betray US in the first place.

And exactly, what is Chinese government trying to pull here? I never set my foot on the Chinese mainland, and I doubt I will for a long long time.. god knows if I get prisoned by those red army for no reason eh? That's right, red army can arrest people whenever they like. That's China. Think that's stereotype? Think again.
#9.1 Squibbles on 16 Nov 2005 - 13:27
Hey, you're cool. But ignorance is bliss, eh?
(2 replies) #10 kirrasoul on 16 Nov 2005 - 05:48
Fair enough that they stole data from the US but to those so quick to condemm, do you really think that US spies/people (or any other for that matter) are not actively engaged in similar activities.
#10.1 parithon on 16 Nov 2005 - 06:23
You could think that, but if they are caught they would also assume the same fate and likely before any trial... Chances are, you wouldn't even hear about it.
#10.2 gunnerhkjp on 16 Nov 2005 - 06:37
Yeah, in retrospect, he was lucky he was caught in the US.
Ofcourse, they could still take him to a remote eastern european country to beat some information out of him.
(2 replies) #11 DaNger_Mouse on 16 Nov 2005 - 07:28
chinese smart ? ....i dont think so ........if they are stealing from the U.S that mean they cheat in exams ?
#11.1 MOGua on 16 Nov 2005 - 08:26
Chinese/Asian people study hard. But you are right, some of them also cheat.

However, there are debates out there on whether or not Asians are smarter due to genetics.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-04/cdri-bai042505.php
#11.2 ThunderRiver on 16 Nov 2005 - 13:24
Whether Asian is smarter or not, it is in debate. I personally think it is over-rated, because people seem to have some type of expectation that Asian is supposed to do well, and if not, that's odd. Well, I don't think anyone deserve to go through this type of expectation from people.

Nonetheless, EQ is more important than IQ. Even if Asian has higher IQ than most races, EQ is probably Asian's worst form of weakness. Why else Asian parents prefer spanking with bamboo sticks or broom stick as punishment to their little children? I know that cuz I had been through that. Finally, among Asian people, they love to compete with each other just about anything. Obviously, someone gets jealous..and they will try to sabotage you whenever they can. You can feel that more directly if you live in island of Taiwan for like 5 years.
#12 ahhell on 16 Nov 2005 - 12:10
So i guess the Chinese are the terrorists of the week.
I wonder who it will be next week?

Don't you just love propaganda.

(1 reply) #13 lbmouse on 16 Nov 2005 - 15:27
QUOTE
Chinese-American Engineer


It's easier to call us Chink Geeks.
#13.1 rm20010 on 17 Nov 2005 - 02:01
*cough* There's a rule for words like that.
#14 xorian on 16 Nov 2005 - 15:27
Sjeez .. did you guys never consider the fact that America just might have CIA guys in China, spying on them as well? It would seem VERY likely to me..
(2 replies) #15 balupton on 16 Nov 2005 - 16:17
Theres 2 scenarios that could happen here:

1) The Chinese people were leeking information about America in plans to attack America
2) The American people are planning to attack China and the Chinese People were leeking information of their plans to help save China.

I rekon;
If people arnt meant to know what that country is doing, than that country shouldnt be doing it.

Pick your one.

Last edited by 129639 on 16 Nov 2005 - 16:41
#15.1 Daffy_Duck on 16 Nov 2005 - 17:16
Are you kidding? How old are you? Your understanding of the world is at a very low level. Here's the real deal:

Neither China nor the US plan to attack each other. China wants to increase it's technological standing. All countries want this. China just happens to be in a unique position because it has a lot of skilled Chinese nationals working in high level scientific positions in the US.

If anything, China wants to attack Taiwan. I don't see that happening though. China's economy is heavily tied to western economies and especially the US. If China were to attack Taiwan, tariffs (BIG tariffs) on Chinese goods would be instated. The US government would also likely stop companies from outsourcing production to China. China's economy and perhaps even the US economy would collapse. It's a gamble that I don't think China is willing to make. The guys in charge in China aren't that stupid.

Last edited by 2302 on 16 Nov 2005 - 17:25
#15.2 dismuter on 16 Nov 2005 - 18:19
QUOTE
If China were to attack Taiwan, tariffs (BIG tariffs) on Chinese goods would be instated.


Most likely an embargo from western countries would be discussed. However, the western economies might also suffer from this in the short term, so they might just apply tariffs.
#16 vet[NFC]Wave on 16 Nov 2005 - 17:57
Enough with the racial talk and discrimination. Anymore of this will result in warnings being handed out.

There is no need for that here or anywhere else on Neowin.

Consider this a final collective warning.
#17 frogworm on 16 Nov 2005 - 19:23
ain't that a beach
#18 noize on 16 Nov 2005 - 19:23
<removed>

oh yeah, cia and fbi and nsa are doing innocent things for the usa.

Last edited by 12010 on 16 Nov 2005 - 20:07
#19 vetSMeK on 16 Nov 2005 - 20:11
Cleaned.

They should make him move sand from the bottom of a pile to the top all day long for the rest of his life
#20 matt74441 on 16 Nov 2005 - 20:18
Cleaned Again
(1 reply) #21 frogworm on 16 Nov 2005 - 20:50
hahahaha, there is a cleanfest going on in here
#21.1 vet[NFC]Wave on 16 Nov 2005 - 21:26
And it will continue until people start to chill out

Calm down everyone *massages temple* Ah... see? Much better.
(1 reply) #22 D.V on 16 Nov 2005 - 21:29
a spy from china got caught.
all big countries have spies in other countries.
thats a fact.


so people need to stop discrimiating against chinese people.
#22.1 frogworm on 16 Nov 2005 - 21:54
especially since there is a lot of them lol ;D
(2 replies) #23 SFalcon on 17 Nov 2005 - 01:38
There's was a lot of legitimate comments removed. An accident? Or is Chinese censorship spilling onto Neowin?
#23.1 rm20010 on 17 Nov 2005 - 02:02
No, it's the censorship of plain stupidity and mindless bashing.
#23.2 PCyr on 17 Nov 2005 - 02:55
QUOTE
No, it's the censorship of plain stupidity and mindless bashing.


As well as just plain racist comments (*cough* Colonel_Angus *cough*)
#24 iceqube on 17 Nov 2005 - 16:31
As a military history buff, I recall Lenin's definition of a Capitalist: someone who will sell you the rope you use to hang him with. I fully expect that sometime within the next ten years the U.S. will exchange thermonuclear weapons with the Chinese. The technology they use to slaughter Americans has been obtained courtesy of treason (Wen Ho Lee, Chi Mak and their fellow travelers obtaining military technology like the W-88 MIRV warhead); treason by US corporations giving the Chinese military computer and missile technology(Lockheed, IBM and Microsoft); slipshod information security at military and corporate networks; active use of the internet for corporate and military intelligence collection by the Chinese military.

Senior Chinese military leaders have threatened use of thermonuclear weapons on the continental US, most recently this year. Thanks to Lockheed they now have a missile that can strike targets from as far away as 12000 km. (i.e., the east coast of the US). When American cities get incinerated in nuclear fireballs, I'm sure that Lockheed officials will cry out that they provided only satellite launcher technology for civilian use to the Chinese!

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