Neowin member ispamforfood (interesting nickname!) has posted an interesting question on our Back Page News forum asking "Raise your hand if you're tired of negative Vista articles".
It is true that there are many news outlets that are having quite a bit of a lark bashing Microsofts latest offering, hardly surprising based on the real-world problems that many people suffered after upgrading their Windows XP machines. In defence of Microsoft, the recommended machine to use Vista with has increased quite a bit from Windows XP where 256MB of Ram was quite enough (or 512 for optimal performance) and now the recommended is 1gig or 2 depending on who you believe. Personally, I had 1GB in my machine when I upgraded (clean installed) but I only saw an improvement after I added an extra 1GB, bringing my RAM up to 2GB.
It's probably also fair to mention that Microsoft has since released Performance & Stability updates, which do fix a lot of annoyances such as slow copy/paste (calculation time) to other partitions. Anyway I have also done a poll, so voice your opinion by voting Yay or Nay to negativity on Vista by clicking the Member Poll link
Link: Neowin Discussion in Back Page News
Link: Windows XP was also treated the same (thanks deck)
It is true that there are many news outlets that are having quite a bit of a lark bashing Microsofts latest offering, hardly surprising based on the real-world problems that many people suffered after upgrading their Windows XP machines. In defence of Microsoft, the recommended machine to use Vista with has increased quite a bit from Windows XP where 256MB of Ram was quite enough (or 512 for optimal performance) and now the recommended is 1gig or 2 depending on who you believe. Personally, I had 1GB in my machine when I upgraded (clean installed) but I only saw an improvement after I added an extra 1GB, bringing my RAM up to 2GB.
It's probably also fair to mention that Microsoft has since released Performance & Stability updates, which do fix a lot of annoyances such as slow copy/paste (calculation time) to other partitions. Anyway I have also done a poll, so voice your opinion by voting Yay or Nay to negativity on Vista by clicking the Member Poll link
Link: Neowin Discussion in Back Page News Link: Windows XP was also treated the same (thanks deck)
vista user
+1 as well. A new OS should be at least as good as its previous version in almost every area and better in others. Otherwise, how could you say it's an upgrade??
I don't mind seeing these Vista rants but they should bring something new to the table, but then again MS set the expectations of the user to be a troublefree and benifical upgrade....
MS could admit it was what they hoped for (as was predicted with all the issues leading up to launch) instead of just saying they'll fix it with patches which would at least aknowlege the negative freedback and restore some faith in it. To those that say it's like XP on launch, you'd expect a big company like MS to learn from past mistakes right?
I can only hope MS buy Apple's OSX that allows users to install it on their PC's, and show them what an OS really can do, ah well you can always dream...
For anyone whos wondering I dual boot with Vista and XP, and don't own a Mac (yet).
Used vista for a while, liked it a lot, just don't try to use it with 1gb ram. Unistalled 'till sp1, using xp now and missing vista.
Used vista for a while, liked it a lot, just don't try to use it with 1gb ram. Unistalled 'till sp1, using xp now and missing vista.
Runs fine for me with 1 GB of ram
Used vista for a while, liked it a lot, just don't try to use it with 1gb ram. Unistalled 'till sp1, using xp now and missing vista.
Runs fine for me with 1 GB of ram
the thing suppose to run on a 512 ram that its the basic config, and 1gb the "premium"
Also, I already posted on the forums a detailed argument that suggests that Vista is suffering the exact reaction that XP received when it was first released. I even posted links to Cnet articles from XP and Vista releases -- the articles are remarkably similar.
So please, everyone, stop your complaining and let's just use whatever OS we like.
In what way limited, we can't improve unless you tell us why
In what way limited, we can't improve unless you tell us why
Limited in that I don't think Vista is great, but I don't it deserves the negativity.
Also, some people may be indifferent.
As for my original post; here it is.
Just stick to the negativity! Supporters just register your support and move onto the the Vista Fanboy subjects
P.S. I also like to say "Wake up America, your government are screwing you, and imploding your economy"
So please, everyone, stop your complaining and let's just use whatever OS we like.
Couldn't agree with you more!
I'm not sure I understand why people feel they must get so passionate for or against Vista or anything they don't personally make really. If XP works for you on your machine and does what you want then you don't HAVE to go with Vista. It isn't a law and there isn't some guy with a gun to your head saying "Go Vista or ELSE!". Keep using XP, just like some people still run Windows 98. What matters more is that you're able to do the things you need to do. After all, the computer is just a tool...
For me Vista works well and I love it enough that I can't go back to XP... I think we need more unbiased reporting on Vista and technology in general, but that will never happen. In our industry there is very little respect given to high quality opinions. People just seem to jump on whatever bandwagon seems to fit them at the day.
"Are you tired of negative Windows Vista articles" is what is called a Yes Or No Question.
Oddly enough, this means (surprise surprise) that the poll options you use for such a question are
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) No opinion. <---- optional
This is not rocket science, people.
Also, I already posted on the forums a detailed argument that suggests that Vista is suffering the exact reaction that XP received when it was first released. I even posted links to Cnet articles from XP and Vista releases -- the articles are remarkably similar.
So please, everyone, stop your complaining and let's just use whatever OS we like.
So unless we have something positive to say about Vista we shouldn't say anything at all? I'm sorry dude, but no.
Just stick to the negativity! Supporters just register your support and move onto the the Vista Fanboy subjects
P.S. I also like to say "Wake up America, your government are screwing you, and imploding your economy"
Geez, Man! With "friends" like the U.K., who needs enemies?
Your government may be our "friend", but if they are anything like you, your people certainly aren't. I guess you're just reacting belatedly to all those American G.I.s who left "little bundles of joy" behind when they left your gloomy little island for good back in '45 .
But the facts are, people like you treated Microsoft exactly the same when XP was first released. In fact, you are making the exact same comments they made about Windows 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, and Windows XP before you. You people just hate Microsoft, and for no other reason than because they are rich, and you aren't.
But you ARE correct in saying "our government IS screwing us", since we have only ONE government.
As a general rule, ALL "governments" are screwing ALL their populations, including the ancient, decrepit, and inbred House of Tudors' "government". So what else is new?
Donald L. McDaniel
Erin Go Bragh!!
Like your "friends" in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?
A true friend will tell you what you don't want to hear, especially when you're on the road to destruction.
Now, thats classic "Ugly American" rhetoric if I ever heard it.
You apparently have a selective memory as well. Yes, XP had its problems, but it was no where near as bad as Vista's.
Resistance is futile.....
As a general rule, ALL "governments" are screwing ALL their populations, including the ancient, decrepit, and inbred House of Tudors' "government". So what else is new?
Hardly. You fear your government while in the rest of the West the governments fears the people and that is why quality of life is higher as well while it is on the decline in America.
Did you know that America is not and has never actually been a democracy? Its a constitutional republican with a democratic tradition.
We're actually a Representative Republic. Please make sure you know what you're talking about before you argue.
What makes Vista worse than XP pre-SP1? If you're going to make a comment like that, back it up with fact.
You've got that backwards.
As bad as nVidia and Creative Vista drivers had been it was much worse for XP, mainly because it was the first time there was a big need for these companies to get working on the NT kernel. And the sheer number of security issues in XP at launch is mind-boggling, Vista doesn't even come close. The only thing you can possibly claim is XP had fewer bugs that merely impacted performance.
I've been using it since back before it was Vista (on and off from 5270, but swapped over to my main OS at Beta 2, or maybe the build after Beta 2. I dont' remember.), and even back in the pre-RC1 days I didn't experience any of the crap people are giving it.
Performance & Stability updates are on Windows Update
The only thing that annoys me now, really, is the slow copy/move.
The only thing that annoys me now, really, is the slow copy/move.
Apparently the problem in that has something to do with the IDE system. I switched my BIOS from IDE to SATA (Intel 965 board) and it stopped doing that. I sent in a defect report to Microsoft on it months ago.
On the other hand, if there are only negative articles being published by other sites you have to realise that maybe they have a point.
WAR WAR WAR!
Sure it was late, but in part I think that Microsoft being more open compounded this issue, if they missed deadlines for 95 or 98 - who would have noticed? Sure, if 98 turned up in 1999 then it might have looked odd, but Microsoft were a lot more secrative then, they have adapted and this new found information can be bad .... there is no doubt they missed deadlines and it was later than they wanted it to be, but as end users, we usually wouldn't have known.
Vista seems more secure to me, month after month I am seeing very few security updates for Vista, which I think is a good thing ... they have this great new Automatic Update centre without the IE ridden tosh that was Windows Update, but I barely have to use it, there are few security updates coming, I find I spend more time downloading driver updates! Which leads me to the fact a lot of Vista's faults may not even be down to Vista, companies had a while to develop drivers but when Vista came out, they weren't ready .... they were premature, not soley Microsofts fault.
As for it needing better computers and resources, etc, so what? Every OS does, unless they take a step back, and Microsoft know the audience for Vista will probably not go installing it on old machines ... either it will be a techy who understands he'll need to upgrade a bit to run Vista nicely, or a n00b who will wait until he buys a new PC to get Vista ... this market for people who want to use their old computer yet run a new OS seems silly to me.
NO. NO IT DOES NOT! I Use XP, Ubuntu AND Vista on this PC. While I like Ubuntu, it does not have DX 10, Aero glass or Flip 3D. It just doesn't. Sorry. Please try again.
The latter two can both be replaced with Compiz Fusion, which is better IMO. DX10, well, it has OpenGL, but it's not really the same, so I'll give you that.
The latter two can both be replaced with Compiz Fusion, which is better IMO. DX10, well, it has OpenGL, but it's not really the same, so I'll give you that.
I like Compiz but to be fair it doesn't seem to use pixel shaders much if at all like the Aero blur needs.
That said, when Aero transparency is off a DX7 card should be all Vista needs for the rest of the hardware driven interface. I agree. But it's not a big deal, I mean those are what, 7 year old cards? Vista runs fine on 4 year old video hardware with Aero, which isn't that bad.
Are you kidding? Please tell me your joking. The former offers no benefits currently at all and the latter two are mere insignificant interface designs that some find absolutely useless (since all they are is eye candy). Furthurmore, what makes you think such things cannot be accomplished using OpenGL? Have you used Compiz Fusion at all? Which, btw, runs much faster than Aero on the same hardware.
Are you kidding? Please tell me your joking. The former offers no benefits currently at all and the latter two are mere insignificant interface designs that some find absolutely useless (since all they are is eye candy). Furthurmore, what makes you think such things cannot be accomplished using OpenGL? Have you used Compiz Fusion at all? Which, btw, runs much faster than Aero on the same hardware.
Can you read? I use Ubuntu, and yes, I use Compiz... but it's NOT THE SAME as Aero Glass or Flip 3D!!! Is that hard to understand? I also mentioned NOTHING about OpenGL. DX and OpenGL ARE NOT THE SAME! I never said OGL couldn't do the things DX10 does, I just pointed out THEY'RE NOT THE SAME THING! Jesus, some of you Linux guys have thick skulls.
Perhaps you just need to use the compiz configuration tool, if you check out this video (Link) at around 2 minutes in you'll see how easy it is to replicate such things with ubuntu and compiz. Having used the same effects at home I can tell you you certainly need not install 2 GB of ram to enjoy them either. The compiz team are nothing short of brilliant. I realize DX10 and OpenGL are not the same thing by the way.
OP (linux user)
Perhaps you just need to use the compiz configuration tool, if you check out this video (Link) at around 2 minutes in you'll see how easy it is to replicate such things with ubuntu and compiz. Having used the same effects at home I can tell you you certainly need not install 2 GB of ram to enjoy them either. The compiz team are nothing short of brilliant. I realize DX10 and OpenGL are not the same thing by the way.
OP (linux user)
I just got done with a clean install of 7.10. It's working great. I really like it so far. I DO have the advanced tools setup, but I'm having trouble getting my "cube" to do all the cool things in that video. So far, there are no transparent windows... hence, no "glass".
You obviously do not know what Compiz can do, so please kindly stfu. I mentioned OGL because you can do pretty much everything with it that you can do with DX, yes that includes something as trivial as "glass."
Btw, I'm not a Linux guy, I'm not any kind of guy other than my own who uses products based on their usefulness.
Although I use and really love Vista, I do agree with this comment. You shouldn't have to upgrade your hardware in order to run it. That is f'd up!
You have me very curious about Ubantu Linux now. I've only used solaris, hp-ux and dynix/ptx. Obviously not for home use but I love unix. It really is a superior operating system.
like it or not, there is only a small minority of people that actually like vista
like it or not, there is only a small minority of people that actually like vista
Um, ok. There's a small minority of people that like OSX too since Apple has such a small PC market share. There are also way less people that like Linux. I say this because out of all the people I know, (for real, not internet aquaintences,) NONE of them use Linux, and only my brother-in-law has a Mac because he uses some obscure music software that only works on it.
like it or not, there is only a small minority of people that actually like vista
Um, ok. There's a small minority of people that like OSX too since Apple has such a small PC market share. There are also way less people that like Linux. I say this because out of all the people I know, (for real, not internet aquaintences,) NONE of them use Linux, and only my brother-in-law has a Mac because he uses some obscure music software that only works on it.
im not sure what mac and linux have to do with the article
like it or not, there is only a small minority of people that actually like vista
Ever hear the phrase vocal minority?
Guess not.
Hint: That means you're wrong.
Guess not.
Hint: That means you're wrong.
Seeing the amount of threads popping on sites like this one jumping on defense of Vista, I'm not so sure about who's the actual "vocal minority".
It's called having a level head and not just bashing stuff for the hell of it, and being sick and tired of those that do it.
This poll is kinda showing those without problems aren't a minority.
This poll is kinda showing those without problems aren't a minority.
You think you're the majority? Uh, hello? How do you explain all the articles online and published from a variety of sources that are giving Vista less than favorable reviews. I know of only one person that likes Vista and all of the people that I have talked to at work (who deal with computers) don't like it either. This is neoWIN afterall. Gee, a windows site with users that like windows; parish the thought. Go to other sites and the poll might be a little different.
Look, no Operating System is perfect, and every Operating System is prone to its problems. I'm not even going to go into specifics of why people bash Vista, it's ridiculous. Before Vista came out, I still saw people bashing XP, and now that Vista has come out, everyone has shifted their attention to Vista, and then saying XP is perfect/they have no problems with it. I find that highly amusing.
Wasn't Vista designed to be more user friendly to noobs? Isn't that one of it's strengths? Now, you turn around and say you need to be an advanced user to grapple with Vista.
Insanity...
Wasn't Vista designed to be more user friendly to noobs? Isn't that one of it's strengths? Now, you turn around and say you need to be an advanced user to grapple with Vista.
Insanity...
Agreed, Vista is more for granny, child and people that spend a few minutes at day using a pc.
For a seasoned users and higher, vista is just a burden, this kind of users known if they need to install a antivirus or not or if a specific page is secure or not.
Wasn't Vista designed to be more user friendly to noobs? Isn't that one of it's strengths? Now, you turn around and say you need to be an advanced user to grapple with Vista.
Insanity...
For example, say for instance you're upgrading your current computer from XP to Vista. Now, older hardware may need drivers that users have to hunt down. An advanced user would know about hardware and what drivers are, where as a typical user might not no what a driver is, and that (s)/he they need the proper ones. Indeed this is one of the lame excuses people blame Microsoft (drivers). Microsoft is not responsible if your graphics card in Vista does not work, it's the hardware manufacturer's responsibility to provide the drivers. Yes, this is one place where Apple has its advantages of being a hardware manufacturer and software manufacturer (Apple OS). There are tons of software/hardware configurations possible in the Windows world.
So, in any environment, an advanced user would know what (s)/he is doing rather than a n00b, same applies to the Mac/Linux world.
Light vs Dark
Good vs Evil
Fanboys vs Common sensers (I made up a word!
one thing I love bout vista is it's memory managment.. and with the apps I run vista handles them so much better... FAR less crashing from out of memory. but ya... xp is still a tad faster for alot of stuff.. and on a slightly older system that makes a HUGE diff
moving along. STOP with the negativity. submit bug reports.. make it better!
a- vista is good. (why?)
b- vista is fast as xp. (no way)
c- vista eat less resource. (oh my..)
d- vista is more secure (tips :don't compare with a xp without firewall/antivirus).
e- vista is way more cool. (apple fanboys will flame this claim for a sure).
f- vista is more stable (usually a fresh install will give stability for a while).
g- MS will kill XP support (tips :also vista, but who will die first?)
Last edited by warwagon on 27 Nov 2007 - 15:54