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IRS to tax Second Life/World of Warcraft earnings?

James7   on 14 January 2009 - 23:49 · 60 comments & 16725 views

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The Internal Revenue Service, the American tax authority, is looking into the possibility of taxing transactions that take place in virtual worlds, such as World of Warcraft and Second Life, based on the claim that revenue generated within these environments is nearly equivalent to the GNP of Russia and significantly greater than the GNPs of many more countries.

The National Taxpayer Advocate: 2008 Annual Report to Congress, Volume One, states: "Where there is economic income, there is likely to be tax due from someone." (p. 217)

Certainly it is true that monetary conversions from many such virtual world currencies into real-world currencies are both possible and fairly common. For example, the going rate in early 2008 for 1000 World of Warcraft gold pieces was between US$12 and US$22. Second Life in particular is proving problematic for the taxman. This is because that virtual world's terms of service allow users to generate virtual goods for which they retain copyright and to sell those virtual goods for "Linden Dollars", which are then not uncommonly converted into real-world currencies (at a rate in early 2008 of about 266 Linden Dollars to one US dollar).

In both cases, there is real-world money being made (and perhaps not being properly reported to the IRS). In the case of Second Life, one encounters novel creations being made by people who are then given intellectual property rights over them (as part of Second Life's terms of service)--intellectual property rights that can generate in-world and, hence, out-world income in a manner similar to, say, a published novel or piece of music.

But what about exchanges that take place entirely within virtual worlds? The National Taxpayer Advocate continues, "[I]s a person subject to tax each time he or she acquires virtual property? How about when the person exchanges one virtual property for another, or for virtual currency? [...] What, if any, information reporting, withholding, backup withholding, and recordkeeping requirements apply to these transactions?" (p. 218)

These are difficult questions, as the National Taxpayer Advocate readily admits, but the IRS is working on finding the answers.

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#1 +Lyric on 15 Jan 2009 - 00:30
That is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.
(1 reply) #2 shakey on 15 Jan 2009 - 00:33
this is just stupid. just stupid stupid. why dont they go ahead and tax bums for what they collect in their jars as well. gotta make money off everything!
#2.1 Electric Bolt on 15 Jan 2009 - 04:10
Exactly! They just want to make sure they can get a couple dimes out of everything we make! Now virtual worlds? Like this is total bull****! This has crossed the line, somebody has to put the IRS to rest!
(3 replies) #3 Shadrack on 15 Jan 2009 - 00:37
Our tax evading founding fathers are probably rolling in their graves right now. The exchange rate between WoW gold and actual currency is not supported by Blizzard. Blizzard doesn't see a dime of that, and user accounts risk being banned for buying WoW through ebay or by some other online means.
#3.1 Foub on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:52
They weren't tax evading. They just wanted to cut out England and keep the money for themselves. The party that was to become the Republicans even wanted to place a king in charge and have nothing to do with elections and the democratic process. The Electoral College was a compromise to get them on board. Never fully trust the "official" version of history.
#3.2 The Gunslinger on 15 Jan 2009 - 09:04
Foub said,
They weren't tax evading. They just wanted to cut out England and keep the money for themselves. The party that was to become the Republicans even wanted to place a king in charge and have nothing to do with elections and the democratic process. The Electoral College was a compromise to get them on board. Never fully trust the "official" version of history.


Yes they werent evading tax, they totally abolished Income Tax! Thats because they instituted a good money system, without a central bank. Its no wonder Americans started paying income tax the same year the federal reserve bank was established...
#3.3 mmck on 15 Jan 2009 - 15:28
The GTA video is hilarious which says that they decided to get rid of taxes, because they decided they didn't need health care of schooling.
(2 replies) #4 TRC on 15 Jan 2009 - 00:39
How are they going to tax something that isn't even allowed in the first place? Selling gold is against the rules.
#4.1 vetJames7 on 15 Jan 2009 - 00:41
Technically, according to that document, people are required to pay taxes on things they steal (steal!).
#4.2 Marshalus on 15 Jan 2009 - 01:18
James7 said,
Technically, according to that document, people are required to pay taxes on things they steal (steal!).


That is correct.
#5 jase savior on 15 Jan 2009 - 00:45
stupidest thing ever. the IRS is just getting desperate now.
#6 Neoauld on 15 Jan 2009 - 01:05
so what, their gonna tax us real life money for putting somethin on the ingame auction house
most ppl dont deal with the chinese farmer gold, so why are htey being punished?
(3 replies) #7 Marshalus on 15 Jan 2009 - 01:21
I don't think that it's made clear, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't think the IRS is wanting to tax the income you make in game as a normal player, but is trying to make sure that the money you may collect as a result of converting the game money into real money in the offline world is claimed as income and properly taxed. I don't think they're worried about someone who does it casually, say, making less then $500 in a year, but the large syndicates who specialize in this kind of stuff.

We have income taxes and like it or not, you have to pay them.
#7.1 vetJames7 on 15 Jan 2009 - 01:34
It's tricky because they talk about air miles being exempt for "political reasons" and not tax reasons. And there are lots of other voucher schemes and things that have "value" and yet are not taxed as normal transactions. The IRS is out to extract cash from each transaction involving things of "value", but there are many exemptions.

Technically if you make real money off WOW/SL then you should report it. But simply because virtual goods and virtual money are potentially convertible to real cash, this means they want to think about going for it tax-wise.

They are not currently thinking of taxing in-world cash/goods transactions. But the principle is there to do so, given that those things can be converted into real-world cash/goods. Hmmm... the way I read that section of that document is that it is the simple potential for conversion that interests them. But then they go on and on about just how they would do it, and if it would be worth the effort to make the companies that host the online worlds to keep track of all those things for tax purposes.

The comments to the original document suggest that "guidance" should be made available so people know where they stand.
#7.2 Marshalus on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:08
I really fail to see their logic. If I play poker with some friends, and no money is exchanged because we use fake chips... but in Vegas those chips have a value, do I owe taxes on my winnings even though no actual money was exchanged and we were simply playing a game?
#7.3 vetJames7 on 15 Jan 2009 - 15:31
It's bizarre stuff. If they are fake chips with no real-money value anywhere, then I don't think they'd be taxable. The fact that virtual money can, in some places, be bought and sold with real money gives it a _potential_ value. Value is only what you can sell something for, in most cases, I guess. Even if you never intend to exchange your virtual money for real money, the fact you could is what gives it the value the IRS is interested in. At least that's how I read it. The virtual world bit in that linked PDF file starts on p. 213 or so and runs on for more than 10 pages.
#8 Morphene on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:02
They wouldn't have to tax anything if they could learn to balance the budget and pay off debt. But no, the avg American can't go to far in debt without major repercussion but our gov't can go trillions of dollars in whole. Till we hold politicians accountable nothing will change and the IRS will grab from us all they can.

Hmm maybe if the politicians didn't receive lifetime benefits and looked at their job as a service to our country and not a career to get easy benefits then maybe we can get somewhere.
(1 reply) #9 +Hell-In-A-Handbasket on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:07
Technicaly ingame currency/items along the lines of WoW, does not belong to Joe User, it belongs to Blizzard, thus we dont own the curency, it isnt real, and cant be taxed.
#9.1 vetJames7 on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:13
That's not how the IRS necessarily sees it. If you can sell this stuff for real money, then it's got value that can be taxed. It doesn't matter if it's against the rules. As noted, you technically have to report as "income" things you steal.
(1 reply) #10 LTD on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:13
A WoW tax!

Brilliant! Would be tough to pull off, though.
#10.1 jamessh on 19 Aug 2009 - 14:37
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(2 replies) #11 wow gold on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:16
Taxing virtual worlds would touch on several issues on different and varying levels. First of all, how does one put determine the price of a virtual product? I don't think that there are really fixed costs that could be accounted for (well, maybe just the subscription fee and electricity etc.) but in terms of something that was used directly to form that virtual, i don't think so. Putting a price on that product would be very ambiguous. Another thing that the IRS needs to realize is that the whole topic of RMT in virtual worlds are still under a lot of scrutiny from the whole community itself. The whole topic is still under one very huge gray area given that even the game publishers are totally against it (a lot of game publishers have active bannings on detected RMT transactions). Should the IRS start taxing on line gamers everytime they purchase their wow gold or whatever it is that they purchase, then RMT should then be recognized as an acceptable means of trading in the virtual community and be taken out of every game's EULA (which I highly doubt would happen in the years to come.)
#11.1 HarryKane on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:29
You have to consider other factors, as well. This will start a debate as to who actually owns virtual properties like wow gold and in-game items once they apply taxes. Why should a player be taxed for something he does not own then?
#11.2 Morphene on 15 Jan 2009 - 06:37
Besides doesn't Blizzard state in its EULA that everything pertaining to the game is sole ownership of Blizzard, we just rent/lease? I might be wrong, but if that is the case then we can't be taxed because we technically do not own the characters we play.
#12 KavazovAngel on 15 Jan 2009 - 02:52
Way to go IRS.
#13 Lexcyn on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:15
That's retarded. Like they will even be able to do that.
(2 replies) #14 FleazZz on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:40
Time to move out of the US.

Got a source for this bad boy? Hard to believe.
#14.1 Recon415 on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:48
Another reason to move to Japan as soon as I'm 18...

I guess this is a move to start recollecting all that money that was lost in the failed auto industry bailout.
#14.2 jamessh on 19 Aug 2009 - 14:38
moving out of the US for this ? hahah
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(1 reply) #15 Airlink on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:45
Next there's gonna be a tax on paying taxes.
#15.1 darkpuma on 15 Jan 2009 - 11:20
Airlink said,
Next there's gonna be a tax on paying taxes.

We have that already, here in quebec. epic fail!
(1 reply) #16 peterg on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:47
IRS to tax in-game transactions? Got to do it in-game!

Level 60 tax-collector applying to join your raid - do you accept?
#16.1 Arexx on 20 Jan 2009 - 00:52
LMAO... oh man I literally laughed out loud to that one... nice.
(3 replies) #17 on 01 Jan 1970 - 00:00
#17.1 Foub on 15 Jan 2009 - 03:56
That is what they're suppose to do with it....... Unlike the republicans who dine and dash. Like the last 8 years. America needs revenue to help it get back on its feet again and to repair the country's infrastructure which is deemed to be 70% unsafe. This is the high cost of tax cuts in the end. You end up paying far more for them eventually.
#17.2 RAID 0 on 15 Jan 2009 - 04:50
#17.3 +dead.cell on 15 Jan 2009 - 15:04
America needs money because our leaders, military, and so forth take from it or use it for incredibly stupid things.
#18 Mercellus on 15 Jan 2009 - 04:38
This is getting out of hand.
#19 McDave on 15 Jan 2009 - 04:45
I don't think that the IRS want to tax in game money but when you sell game credit (if that be gold peices, items, land etc) for real USD then it's classes as earning and should be taxed.
#20 Slugbait on 15 Jan 2009 - 05:14
So, do I archive the email I receive about this virtual world taxation along with other emails claiming the postal service is going to start charging me for each email I send, or do I forward this received email to a dozen friends so that BillG will send me five bucks?

Decisions, decisions...

Seriously, one guy files it on his income tax almost three years ago, it becomes news 25 months ago...we're regurgitating this?
(1 reply) #21 z0phi3l on 15 Jan 2009 - 07:04
I bet Obama signs a law doing just that before his first year is up
#21.1 RAID 0 on 16 Jan 2009 - 21:40
z0phi3l said,
I bet Obama signs a law doing just that before his first year is up


Well, congress will have to make a law before the prez signs anything into law.
#22 Andrew-DB on 15 Jan 2009 - 08:37
#23 bokajinn on 15 Jan 2009 - 09:06
Here it comes.... Blizzard (backed up by the many other mmo games and virtual games) vs IRS lawsuit.

That would also mean D2 is to be taxed. You know how many people still pay money for in game items.
#24 Notsobad on 15 Jan 2009 - 10:20
Virtual money earned = tax payable with "Real" money

therefore

Real money earned = tax payable with "Virtual" money

Result!

#25 darkpuma on 15 Jan 2009 - 11:22
This would have sounded ridiculous to me, but after finding out that I have to pay taxes while buying a used car, that has been resold xx amount of times I find it much easier to beleive. Buy car for 25k, pay xthousand in taxes. resell a year later for 20k, and that person pays another x thousand in taxes... on and on. Pretty soon the govt has made as much from taxes on that car, as the car originally cost! complete bs.
#26 Anaron on 15 Jan 2009 - 12:39
Surely Blizzard will resist this. I mean, buying/selling in-game currency with real money isn't even allowed.
#27 vetneufuse on 15 Jan 2009 - 14:12
How long until they start taxing my tax income in Sim City? *lol* jk
#28 duneworld on 15 Jan 2009 - 14:25
When I read this I thought that a govt taxing ingame revenue and 'money' movement would be like trying to tax say a Britain living legally in another country who only occassionally returns to the UK. Perhaps they go back every so often because in the country they live in don't have Jaffa Cakes and there's no other viable option to buy them in his country of residence. What I want to know is this applicable to the virtual world? Is it effectively, legally or whatever another country?
(1 reply) #29 Sawyer12 on 15 Jan 2009 - 17:42
Outside the Eco system of the game isn't this money worthless?
#29.1 CoMMo on 15 Jan 2009 - 18:02
Sawyer12 said,
Outside the Eco system of the game isn't this money worthless?


Sadly, that is not always the case. While Blizzard does not condone, nor allow, the exchange of in-game property for real world money or visa versa, it happens all the time. Blizzard does what it can to stop this, but there are companies all over the internet that advertise to sell WoW gold. They charge a price to your debit card, and then I guess they mail it to you (in-game) or give you a character name to go trade with in the game to redeem your purchase. This therefore, gives real-world value to virtual property, and therefore gives the IRS something tangible to try and squeeze a dollar out of.
#30 AnalogRival on 16 Jan 2009 - 05:01
If they plan on taxing those who sell gold for USD, go for it. Run those jerks outta business.

If they plan on taxing me for selling an item on the AH and no REAL money changes hands, they can kiss my ass.

The US Gov't would have to adopt an actual exchange rate, which would be pretty impossible considering Blizzards stance against gold selling.

They are grabbing at straws, this was attempted before and shot down. I don't have supporting links, but a decent Google search should find it.
#31 notta on 16 Jan 2009 - 17:56
If you really think this is going to pass your just plain naive.
#32 Arexx on 20 Jan 2009 - 00:48
I can understand this with regard to Second Life, anyone that has been on that knows it's a virtual world and people sell virtual goods on it for real money. But World of Warcraft? Nobody "earns" anything in that game, it's all "gold", I don't actually get gold delivered to my bank (I wish! heh), it's merely a game credit used to purchase in game items, nothing real world at all. About the only people I would LOVE to see them nab are the gold sellers, but I think the vast majority of those live outside the USA.

What's next? Are we going to be charged with murder if we kill someone in an online game?
#33 Khyra Ares on 07 Mar 2009 - 04:07
ok this is bull crap. how the hell are people gonna tax a world that technically doesnt even exist other have in digital pixels? whats next? we gonna get taxed for every time we sleep with someone? or how about when we take a dump or a ****? mabey they should tax us for drinking a damn glass of water. the irs is getting to be just as bad as the nazis were. except they are taking our freedom to express ourselves rather than taking our lives.
#34 Kesia757 on 12 Oct 2009 - 12:26
Can you please provide us clear idea about taxing transaction in Virtual world?
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