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Makes fishy face!

LOL

lol i actually LOL'd when i read that.

Thank god for legal age uninhibited women! 8D

LMAO. I think Microsoft might be a little careful with that one =P

Its clear at whom these ads are targeted, and it's effective.

I suppose if Apple took a similar route, we'd see what two guys sipping cappuccino in a Starbucks can get accomplished...

Here a Summary of Today's LTD Applism:

"ZOMG I am scared because Apple ads are smug and Microsoft ads are constructive, I WANT Microsoft to go down the level of Apple!!!"

More of LTD trolling Windows topics, keep up the great work buddy.

Apple's ads rate consistently among the top, for 2006, 2007, and 2008.

Bottom line is, those "smug" (or whatever you want to call them) ads work. And the reasons should be obvious.

Right, because Macs are literally flying off the shelves...

Sure.

Last edited by Infusion- on 14 Feb 2009 - 00:09

I think you (LTD) are terribly mistaken at who these new ads target. These are aimed at families, where-as the mac adverts didnt really seem to be aimed at anyone, they just pointed out flaws in the oppositions OS. Yes the mac adverts were funny, but to anyone who knew what they were actually talking about, they would have noticed there wasn't really a point.

Last edited by Minimoose on 13 Feb 2009 - 23:23

Pricing is a different story. Lots of people want one. Not everyone can afford one.

OS X marketshare however, given the price of entry in to the Mac game, has gone from 5 or 6 % prior to 2006 right up to between 9-10% recently.

Macs figured quite nicely into Apple's recent record $10 billion quarter. Sales were up from the same quarter last year, and Apple's margins held very, very well.

Seriously, who spoon feeds you this crap? Do you come up with it on your own, or do you have some Steve Jobs phallus-shaped ticker-tape dispenser that tells you what to post?

I just don't believe these ads are that great. I gave reasons.

Time will tell, obviously. These ads are an improvement, but rather forgettable.

No, you see people talking about Microsoft ads on here, in a positive light, and your trying to spin up your little propaganda machine.

I have a right to my opinion, and gave my reasons.

As for "Windows propaganda", I can say that about a lot of Neowin's membership. But I accept that.

Accept my right to my opinion, and if you like, argue intelligently against it. Anything else is just an attempt to censor me, which doesn't bode well for anyone.

LTD sees bad ad campaign from MS -> "More MS ad lameness. Why can't they come up with one good ad theme and repeat it for years like Apple does?!"

LTD sees good campaign from MS -> "Why must MS repeat their one good ad theme for years?!"

The glass is always Apple-tinted through his eyes. 8D

LTD:

Yes, but you also have a right to get a life and not purposely troll and annoy people. Just something to think about.

I honestly think he must get paid for this. And once again, we play into his game, talking about Apple rather than the actual topic. Negative attention is better than nothing, I suppose.

Last edited by Infusion- on 14 Feb 2009 - 00:27

Don't forget, I'm an Apple fanboy in an OCEAN of Windows fanboys here on Neowin. Neowin is a veritable nesting-ground for Windows fanboys, because what other type of user can defend Vista to the lengths it is defended on these boards?

If, however, I say what i say on Macrumors or MacNN, I wouldn't get nearly as much moaning and crying in response.

So this predominantly Windows/PC tech site has a few Apple fanboys. You and others need to start dealing with them instead of crying about it. My opinion is usually presented in a more thoughtful manner than most, and if you're unable to respond to it in kind, that's entirely your problem. But we're here to stay.

Keep moaning about it, though. It'll increase your post count, at least. It seems people around here can't stand debate. Or maybe trying to defend the indefensible is proving too much to handle for some of you.

It's ok to use a hippy guy to represent a product, and a fat guy to represent the product of your competitor, but stupid to show a cute kid using your product because of how easy it is to use.

Ads that show the same fat guy and the same hippy guy on the same white background using the same intro and the same tune for years are highly variant. But showing different people of different ages, of different professions, of different localities doing different things, of course, is boring and derivative, and it gets old too soon.

It's ingenious to show the hippy guy give the fat guy a photo album and tell him it was just a few clicks, but it's dumb to show a kid do a similar thing. Because, of course, the main point in marketing has to be making fun of your competition. The cute kid should've given an "Objective-C GUI programming guide" to her friend. That would be ingenious. Although, one can't help but wonder how easy the hippy guy would find it to use the computer if the C++ GUI programming people stopped GUI programming, and started to just print pictures.

eitch,

Ok, approach the issue from a different angle, then.

Tell me why the Apple ads are so successful. Tell me what is unique and interesting about that pair - the suit guy and the hippie guy. Tell me why those two have so easily become a staple of the public consciousness. The ads work on more than one level.

And yes, the "cute kid" can be doing the same thing. But that exact same thing will give a completely different impression to the viewer.

You should really stop withthe censorship thing, it's just a weak defense for your annoying trolling LTD. I find so many things that I like that the last thing I would do is spend the amount of time you do posting about stuff you don't like.

So, what I get from all this, is that LTD is starved for attention, and looking to **** people off by continually posting views that he know will go against the grain here.

THAT IS SAD.

No, I post my views. That's it. If they goe against the grain, that's life.

I don't post in order to win approval. I don't feign false objectivity just for the sake of being diplomatic. THAT would be sad.

No, you post APPLE's propaganda views, which you have subscribed to ad nauseum without critical and objective analysis. You present the most ridiculous claptrap as fact (i.e. "Apple rules", "Apple's patents own all", etc. etc.) in a way that has cost you all credibility.

And for the record, you CHOOSE to be a lone niche marketed drone in a sea of the entire rest of the world. I own many PC and Apple products and I know their strengths and their weaknesses.

LTD: I'm a PC and I'll crush you in Solitaire. lol j/k

Really? How about you? You've been so boring for how?

I finally figured out what LTD stands for: LimiTeD.
As in he has a limited mental capacity and needs special help.

You don't like being called stupid? Then grow up and stop posting garbage. If you'd stop writing stupid crap then perhaps people will stop calling you stupid. You don't get a free pass just because you think you're special. We all are subject to the same critical review by our peers, and you are no exception. Don't like it? Tough. That's how it works. You can either get with the program or get lost. Your choice.

Airlink, give it a rest.

I don't care what you call me, and despite all the personal attacks I'll keep posting.

I post an opinion and give reasons for it, and a pack of Windows fanboys just descends on it, which isn't a problem if it weren't for the endless stream of personal attacks. And the best they can manage are personal attacks. Not a reasonable response, not a strong counter-argument, but name-calling and immaturity. Which is typical behaviour around here. It might be age-related, or it might simply be fanboy vs. fanboy.

In any case, note that since my original post - which stated a perfectly valid opinion and my reasons for it, *every single response* was in the form of a personal attack.

Man up and debate. Or run to to the mods and complain again. even when I wasn't posting recently due to other concerns and issues, all I saw was constant baiting. Kids around here can't seem to handle a divergent viewpoint, and God forbid it be a constant divergent viewpoint. Yes, I'm the Neowin member that constantly support Apple because . . . GUESS WHAT! I think they've been doing most things right over the past few years, and guess what else! I really can't find anything to complain about, and in fact, most of the time I only have positive things to say about them because again, I think they're doing a fantastic job. When I have a complaint I voice that too, and you've seen me do it.

It's fun seeing the kind of Windows "group-think" go on around here. It's no better than the Apple kind. LOL. Jokers.

Last edited by LTD on 14 Feb 2009 - 15:03

Ive seen the Apple ads; I dont remember one of them at all.

They work? I thought you didnt work for Apple? You are saying that you as a Apple employee know that people buy a Mac because they see the Mac ads.

You are mistaken. Los of people want a computer (not a PC or a Mac) that has power and is affordable. Again imagine buying a expensive 1 of a kind Ferrari with a Ford engine with nonchangable parts compared to cheap/medium/expensive priced Dodge/BMW/Ferrari with a Dodge/BMW/Ferrari engine with exchangeable parts.

Thank you for admiting it.

They aren't. Noone remembers them except you.

Actually, everyone knows about them. And they are, in fact, quite memorable.

Here's why they're effective.

There is a reason Apple is a branding powerhouse. Their ads work on different levels. Apple does a great job of telling its brand story - which is consistent and made very clear over the long-term.

Apple's ads work because the viewer sees the exchange between the pair played out skilfully and with sly humour. They don't tell us something we don't think we already know.

More specifically, the campaign exemplifies the artfully clever use of "framing" the selective control of information used to shape a viewer's perception. A simple example is the term "tax relief." If you have an anti-taxation agenda, "tax relief" is a much more powerful term than "tax cut", because it frames taxes as a "burden" from which people need "relief." The term assumes its own premise and thereby frames our perception.

In the "Get a Mac" campaign, Apple frames an (artificial) dualism, and then reinforces the dualism with powerful metaphors. The dualism frames two options: either you use a PC (understood to mean Windows) or a Mac. Those are your options.

To force the viewer's decision, Apple uses the extremely dry-witted John Hodgman (who is actually the more talented of the pair) to play the part of the PC as a bland-looking, frumpy businessman. They contrast Hodgman with a relaxed, young hipster-type in the role of the Mac. On seeing the commercial, it's clear which guy you would rather be like. The archetypal roles portraying Mac and PC ring true to real life experience, which cleverly enforces the dualism Apple is pushing.

The campaign is nothing short of absolutely brilliant advertising. It's seemingly simple, and it's fun and witty. It also sets up an understanding of the difference between Macs and PCs that people readily accept, and the whole framework is extremely memorable. They're the tech version of the Odd Couple.

These ads were run constantly, there's no way you wouldn't have seen and heard them over and over again, either on TV or around the web. These ads were also voted among the top ads for 06, 07, and 08.

This is MS' third attempt to put out something that is even remotely effective. The new MS ads play up the "cute kid" strategy, reminiscent of, among other ads, The Welch's grape juice ads. I'm really not all that impressed by them, but again, they're an improvement, and the message is a bit more clear and simple. I wholeheartedly admit that. The funny thing is, though, is that the ads emphasize the "simplicity" of Windows, whereas the public hardly considers the platform to be that. It *might* already be too late to change the public's (and the media's) perceptions. If anything, Windows 7 itself will do the selling, and by the looks of it, MS might not need to advertise all that much anyway, which is good news, finally.

Last edited by LTD on 14 Feb 2009 - 18:11

LTD....

Yes, this site is swimming with Windows fanboys, but your "Apple can do nothing wrong and all MS can do is crap" mentality overshadows us all. I am a Windows person and i dont like Macs. Yet, I say good things about them from time to time as I have an open mind.

These ads are working because the image people are portraying about MS is that all their stuff is crap and hard to use. MS got this image from other companies bad mouthing MS since that is the only way they can get sales. These ads show that this is not true.

And who cares if apples ads have been voted the top ads the past few years. So people think they are funny...are they all running out and buying Apple products, probably not. Hell, I see ads all the time on TV (like the baby etrader ads) but you dont see me running out and setting up an account.

Expand your mind dude and join the rest of us in a vast sea of possibilities.

I'm another Mac fanboy. MS' ads are boring. They show just how dumbed-down Windows is, to the point of where little kids can use it.

Dumbed down? Then why are people, Mac fans mostly, complain at how hard it is and cumbersome to do things within Windows?

Yes, in Windows you can do easy things right out of the box. Thats what its designed to do since it makes it easy for people to use and that is appealing to a lot of people. Those of use who want to do more difficult things, know what software we need and how to get it.

DanielZ, I see what you're trying to say, but i don't think Windows is dumbed down at at all. Quite the contrary. The "cute kids" strategy is to attempt to demonstrate what most OSes and their respective interfaces aspire to: ease of use. The new ads aren't bad at all, they just seem a bit too generic. It's arguably more difficult to dispel prejudices rather than reinforce existing ones. The Windows ads are trying to dispel them, while the Apple ads, in a sly fashion, worked to reinforce them. It's up to you, however, which you think is the more effective approach.

techbeck:

I don't say good things for the sake of balance. I always say what I mean. And if I perceive a substantial imbalance, then why would I say good things about everything?

I don't really care about the other "possibilities", because I don't perceive their value relative to my preferences. That may or may not change in the future.

Sly fashion?

What's so sly about PC sucks, Mac is cool and repeating the same thing again and again?

Many people in my family don't even know what OS X is, much less how it would be more useful to them. Everyone knows what Windows looks like on the other hand, as you can see it at every store, from Walmart to Best Buy. How many times have I seen a Mac in person? Seriously, I believe it was 3 times excluding the Apple Store. Only twice was I even in range of one to get a good look.

What commercials would I find better? How about the ones like the iPhone commercials? They show appealing stuff you can do with the iPhone, ease of use, etc. But I guess actually showing the consumer your product and what it can do isn't "good" advertising.

But what do I know? The iPhones are only flying off the shelf.

It's too easy to mock these ineffectualm forgettable ads. They're not worth the effort. But I have to admit for once they are not nearly as annoying like most of Microsoft's usual advertizing schemes.

Will it get me, or the average person to change their mind about Vista? Oh hell no. They see Vista every day, is an ad supposed to change their mind after they've witnessed this atrocity of an OS first hand?

Why bother with these ads, that's what I want to know. It's like the IRS advertizing that they exist. WE KNOW!

"atrocity of an OS"?! Methinks one of the lonely and lowly 6% speaketh troll!

People, I am a PC, and I HATE LTD!!!... BUT give him a life! he has the right to express him self whatever he is whatwever he thinks.

PS: MAC adds are plain old B**S**T with no sense at all.... thats my view... go play :p ... MS adds add a sense of emotion ... a sense of belonging... a sense of family... I see MAC adds as promoting elitness , inferiority for others etc....

Dont mind my spells, I am not on a honeybee forum so people should stop anoying others for gramer/spelling mistakes.

Yes I do have a speel check... to lazy to use it :p

So mac adds are # 1 from 2006-07-08 hmmm.... Now lets take the senario half of people in US watch these adds ad so its THIS poular that 70-80% of the people watching it must love it so they'l use it hence:

305,819,000 / 2 = 152,909,500 *75% = 114,682,125 people must be using it in the US alone... hmmm

Now Apple sales for 08 for the world are US.32,480,000,000 thats 32.48 billion US so when 114,682,125 people are using APPLE it means 32,480,000,000 / 114,682,125 = 283.22 USD per person spent, and we know thats not the case you may get a PC for this much but not an APPLE... no way boy.... and PLUS this figure only takes the population of the US (becouse LTD took the response of the popularity of the add in US) and the sales figure is of the entire world.... so now lets do this...... Populrity check....

Suppose the average price of an apple product is USD.300 now....... and half the sales where in US so

People 305,819,000

Half sales 16,240,000,000

Average price per unit = 300 so 16,240,000,000 = 54,133,334 unit sold so now the popularity is close to 17.5% the population of the entire US take dramatic figures in favour of MAC....

Dramitic like, average price, half sales in the US


Last edited by waqastariq on 16 Feb 2009 - 09:00

If you can't be bothered to spell check your post, I can't be bothered to show you how utterly and completely WRONG you are.

But for starters, you need to learn the difference between US Market Share and World Market Share. Apple's World Market Share is nigh upon 0%...

*excalpius* I cant bother with spell check becouse some speeling I dont know are right or not.... so I rather leave them that way... somtimes when I spell check it choses a word with an other meaning... so its nothining to be FLAMED about.....

>>>you need to learn the difference between US Market Share and World Market Share.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As per my post I said "and PLUS this figure only takes the population of the US (becouse LTD took the response of the popularity of the add in US) and the sales figure is of the entire world.... "
I know what Us market share and World market share means... I was putting a senarion on "Even If"... Hope you get that

Google up the Asia Carrera website. Can't post it here, for obvious reasons. She's a bit older than 21, but she's a PC gaming geek as well as having other...talents.

talents?

Like moaning?

I'm a PC and I'm a fluffer!? 8P

+1 internet for using the term fluffer. LOL

Asia Carrera went undisguised to E3 once with her nephew. She mistakenly assumed few people there would know who she is because they are all geeky teens who never watched porn in their life, right? They had to bring in a SWAT team to rescue her after she was mobbed by the hordes of pimply-faced, overweight, obnoxious virgins that assailed her once they realized who it was. And that wasn't even the geeky teens, that was just the game devs!

Well, that has nothing to do with MS Products

Yes it does, it can show using Windows Media Player, duh!

To show how good WMP streams videos, right ??

In noticed that there is a certain well-known HD porn site that switched to Silverlight recently. So, yes, MS does do porn.

That's just the internal, undocumented timer that lets you know when it's time to toss out your iAppliance, and get a new one.

^pretty much. But remember Macs have greater shelf life!

I bet you 100 bucks Justin Long got help zipping up his pants before doing the commercial...

Of course, children don't learn these themselves, you teach them.

Actually, you might be surprised. Children can teach themselves a lot of things if you give them the right tools and a supportive environment. It's called learning-by-doing. You probably know it as "play." You probably did some of that today and didn't even realize you were doing it.

Yeah i can see my 7 years old brother.. He is learning a lot of things, alone, without anyone teaching him.

Well, yeah I know that, but you can see a lot of quick cuts in these ads.....

Her parents got paid, and she got a free mcdonald's happy meal out of this

Out of everything posted in here, my comment was deemed inappropriate?

I would tell you what I think of your edit, but I feel that you'd edit that out too.

Nazis.

What did you post?

Just give us the gist of it.

Had to do with nazis, Apple, a mammoth, and a block of swiss cheese. All I'll say is that it wasn't pretty.

LOL

Programming has nothing to do with an OS >.>

And the girl is this MS video is 7, not 9. Way to compare Apples and Oranges there, you twit. Try thinking before you post.

And my mom can out program your mom...but seriously, did Apple make it possible for the boy to program? No, therefore your comment has no relevance here.

If there are no walls, where do the windows go?

hahaha

hahaha

Maybe the walls are just single huge windows...like we all live in Malibu. 8P

They're obviously not going to re-use her.

and superhuman can make up his mind! 8D

You know, when I first came onto this site and began reading these comments LTD was completely unintelligable. He really was the epitome of "frothing at the mouth fanboy." Surprisingly, he's writing very well these days. I'm very surprised that people make a big deal about him at all. I'm disappointed that, given his clear opinions, everyone else suddenly has seemingly become rabid fanboys who can't either respect his opinion and not say anything, or who can't respond without making personal attacks.

This article is about Microsoft's new advertisement. If we're not commenting to give our opinion on it, what are we supposed to be commenting on?

^^ Agreed.

Just because other sites tolerate extreme one-sidedness (such as Apple evangelism sites) from posters doesn't mean that we should sink down to their level to get revenge at them.

i agree - LTD's (relatively) recent ability to communicate in a well-rounded, concise, literal manner is a credit to him.

I will however comment that his views are not 'one-sided', but more 'unchangeable'. It's *that* which is not constructive with respect to debate.

yes i tried it, with 6 images , and results are Great

I Love Windows Live Photo Gallery

He never goes away. I have established in other threads that he's only posting to hear himself speak.

Wow, is your ego fragile...

They really don't have to. The world doesn't care about Apple, aside from the tech gadgets they put out. Apple may be innovative, but they are also ultimately irrelevant.

Yes, there's Windows everywhere.

Then again, MS is a far cry from their 95%+ market share of years ago. But that isn't a big issue at this time, at least for consumers.

The good news is, is that Windows 7 looks like it'll be able to sell itself.

Last edited by LTD on 15 Feb 2009 - 01:59

I think they're trying to advertise Windows Live (the program she uses is Windows Live Photo Gallery), not just Windows...

All I can say to this comment is this, how many different mac's are there (I believe in current production there are less than 20) of which how many are made outside of apple (I believe in current production there are 0). This means Apple still controls the hardware and software designed for their systems making it easy to install as there are only a handful or two of machines to work with. Now going to a pc, you have different manufacturers and home built that leaves with a pretty much limitless combination to include in the os disk and also new developments coming out for the pc. Macs are trying to get to where the pc is, but so many vendors have been designing for pc's (software and hardware). It isn't easy to put in the latest graphics card into a mac, but a pc accepts it with open arms (most of the time anyway). IMO (flame me if you want), a mac is a more expensive alternative for the average user who will never go into their machine to upgrade it and use it the way it is until the hard drive crashes or the world no longer supports it (apple IIe for example, still around but has no current use).

Yes, heaven forbid you should be paid to do your job.