Dot Matrix Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 But you have Windows 8 installed on your Windows 7 or Windows XP computer with Linux. But I am talking about new computers in the shops that come pre installed with Windows 8. They may have secure boot. But if you install Windows 8 on your own Windows 7 or Windows XP computer it is different. But the posts I read on the web are referring to when they start selling Windows 8 computers. Any computer or laptop you buy in the shops now comes pre installed with Windows 7. And you can install Windows XP,Linux or any other OS including Windows 8. And also uninstall Windows 8 and install Windows 7 or Linux. That's not a problem. But if the new laptops that come pre installed with Windows 8 have secure boot put on them. Like Microsoft would like to do.You may not be able too install Linux or Windows 7 or Windows XP on those laptops. Andrea Borman. Let's set the record straight. DESKTOP/LAPTOP PCs: WILL have secured boot ENABLED by default. There will also be a kill switch to use if you wish to use Linux or Windows 7. Windows XP WILL NOT run on a Windows 8 certified machine (UEFI will be replacing BIOS which XP does not have support for). WINDOWS ARM TABLETS: WILL have secured boot enabled, WITHOUT the kill switch. It's not like it matters as NO OTHER DESKTOP OS SUPPORTS ARM. TL;DR: Windows 8 desktop and laptop PCs WILL have secured boot turned on by default, HOWEVER there will be a toggle switch to turn it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh the Nerd Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 DESKTOP/LAPTOP PCs: WILL have secured boot ENABLED by default. There will also be a kill switch to use if you wish to use Linux or Windows 7. Windows XP WILL NOT run on a Windows 8 certified machine (UEFI will be replacing BIOS which XP does not have support for). Most UEFI machines include BIOS emulation; don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted March 8, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted March 8, 2012 even on ARM machines I pretty much guarantee that someone will come out with a 3rd party tool to disable the secure boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 even on ARM machines I pretty much guarantee that someone will come out with a 3rd party tool to disable the secure boot Even if someone does, I personally wouldn't trust it. I bought a Win8 tablet because I wanted Win8. If a person doesn't want Win8, then there are plenty of iPads, or Droids to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted March 8, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted March 8, 2012 Even if someone does, I personally wouldn't trust it. I bought a Win8 tablet because I wanted Win8. If a person doesn't want Win8, then there are plenty of iPads, or Droids to choose from. just like with a standard Windows x86/x64 machine, if someone want to dual-boot their tablet who's to say they shouldn't be allowed to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 just like with a standard Windows x86/x64 machine, if someone want to dual-boot their tablet who's to say they shouldn't be allowed to? ARM is a different architecture. The OS is built specifically for, and tied to the specific hardware and chipset of the tablet. For example: Windows 8 running on an HP ARM tablet is different from Windows 8 running on a Dell tablet. There's little interoperability between ARM devices. So, someone looking to run, say Ubuntu, on a Windows ARM machine would need to modify the source to work specifically to work with that specific tablet. Hope that makes some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhillrider Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I use the win 8 preview as my main OS. On my laptop. which is plugged into a 40 inch 1080 thru hdmi.I don't game on a pc anymore so what I use it for its just fine. browsing the web, syncing devices.metro looks good on a big tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted March 9, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted March 9, 2012 ARM is a different architecture. The OS is built specifically for, and tied to the specific hardware and chipset of the tablet. For example: Windows 8 running on an HP ARM tablet is different from Windows 8 running on a Dell tablet. There's little interoperability between ARM devices. So, someone looking to run, say Ubuntu, on a Windows ARM machine would need to modify the source to work specifically to work with that specific tablet. Hope that makes some sense. I was talking more along the lines of dual-booting with Android but I wouldn't be surprised to see Linux development pick up for ARM systems as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salutary7 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 There's little interoperability between ARM devices. So, someone looking to run, say Ubuntu, on a Windows ARM machine would need to modify the source to work specifically to work with that specific tablet. Yeah, that's really unfortunate I think. Various tablet manufacturers make it very inconvenient/impossible to run an alternate OS on their respective devices. But I wonder if that stance is even beneficial? If you take the Nook Color, for instance, rooting of the device is very much supported (although not straightforward), and so they've garnered a significant enthusiast community. I think it would be good for WOA if a similar stance were taken, but there's basically no chance of that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm pretty sure companies like RedHat and Canonical can afford to sign their Linux distributions. Oh Snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Most UEFI machines include BIOS emulation; don't they? I believe you may be right, it appears UEFI can be run ontop of older BIOS firmware, however, how Windows XP will react to that remains to be seen, but if I was a betting man, I wouldn't expect to be running Windows XP natively anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted March 9, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted March 9, 2012 I believe you may be right, it appears UEFI can be run ontop of older BIOS firmware, however, how Windows XP will react to that remains to be seen, but if I was a betting man, I wouldn't expect to be running Windows XP natively anymore. well considering you can't install Windows XP on most new Windows 7 machines already as it is, I'm guessing NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I was talking more along the lines of dual-booting with Android but I wouldn't be surprised to see Linux development pick up for ARM systems as well Doesn't matter WOA is a locked eco system. Just like Xbox and in general android and such. The oem's basically get the OS for free on those devices so the cost can be kept down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted March 9, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted March 9, 2012 Doesn't matter WOA is a locked eco system. Just like Xbox and in general android and such. The oem's basically get the OS for free on those devices so the cost can be kept down. and?like that's gonna stop people, just because it's locked down doesn't mean it can't (or wont for that matter) be done i look at it this way. why shouldn't you be able to dual-boot windows 8 and android on and arm tablet, it's no different than me wanting to dual-boot windows and linux on my desktop pc it's already been proven with the HP Touchpad, just because they don't want us to doesn't mean it's not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 and? like that's gonna stop people, just because it's locked down doesn't mean it can't (or wont for that matter) be done i look at it this way. why shouldn't you be able to dual-boot windows 8 and android on and arm tablet, it's no different than me wanting to dual-boot windows and linux on my desktop pc it's already been proven with the HP Touchpad, just because they don't want us to doesn't mean it's not going to happen Whether it's gonna stop them or not is irrelevant. The point is that MS is in their right to lock it down as they're giving the OS away for free on the cheap ARM tablets. and you're buying a windows tablet. not a cheap blank tablet you can install linux or android on. if you want that, you buy one of the non locked x86 tablets, where you can do that. MS wants their investment back, they're not getting that if people install other crap OS' on them. I don't believe the touchpad used UEFI and secure boot though. it's funny how you on one side argue that they're locked down, and then you argue that it doesn't matter because you can break it anyway... decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fobban Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm running the Consumer Preview. I'd say I'm 99,9 % in Desktop mode. Metro mode only when I have to search. I've also uninstalled most Metro apps so I don't risk flying into some huge stupid full screen mode when reading PDF:s for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted March 9, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted March 9, 2012 yes, Microsoft has the choice to lock it down just as Apple has with the ipod touch / iphone and we as the purchaser have the legal right to unlock it if we choose I'm in no way saying it should be done, all I've been saying is it more than likely will be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 yes, Microsoft has the choice to lock it down just as Apple has with the ipod touch / iphone and we as the purchaser have the legal right to unlock it if we choose I'm in no way saying it should be done, all I've been saying is it more than likely will be done The legal right is somewhat murky. and can vary depending on country/state. Technically, though this would be assumption since there are no Win8 tablets yet, you agree to a license either on the box or when you first start the tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The legal right is somewhat murky. and can vary depending on country/state. Technically, though this would be assumption since there are no Win8 tablets yet, you agree to a license either on the box or when you first start the tablet. You buy it before seeing the license. They'd have a hard time proving there was a meeting of minds in the contract of sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 And the license says that if you don't agree with it, don't break the seal and return it to the store... So your point was what again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowimnothing Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I've got it as primary on two of my four machines (the BUILD tablet and my home desktop; laptop and work desktop are still Win7). So far, I have just one complaint about it: the charms bar is a bit hard to pull up consistently when you're running dual monitors - its easy to pull it up initially, but then as you move the mouse up to hit one of the charms, its too easy to move too much left/right and have it disappear. Can't just hold it against the edge like you can on single monitors. Otherwise, it works as advertised. LOVE it on the BUILD tablet, and it does everything I need on the desktop. I've got it as primary on two of my four machines (the BUILD tablet and my home desktop; laptop and work desktop are still Win7). So far, I have just one complaint about it: the charms bar is a bit hard to pull up consistently when you're running dual monitors - its easy to pull it up initially, but then as you move the mouse up to hit one of the charms, its too easy to move too much left/right and have it disappear. Can't just hold it against the edge like you can on single monitors. Otherwise, it works as advertised. LOVE it on the BUILD tablet, and it does everything I need on the desktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So far, I have just one complaint about it: the charms bar is a bit hard to pull up consistently when you're running dual monitors - its easy to pull it up initially, but then as you move the mouse up to hit one of the charms, its too easy to move too much left/right and have it disappear. Can't just hold it against the edge like you can on single monitors. Make the other monitor the "main" monitor. I had my right monitor as my main monitor for the superbar and metro, but change it so I can have the clock and metro out without blockign my full screen games on the "main" monitor. which does make the charms bar a bit awkward sometimes but it's ok. It has a fairly long timeout before it pops away again so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Active. Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm running the Consumer Preview. I'd say I'm 99,9 % in Desktop mode. Metro mode only when I have to search. I've also uninstalled most Metro apps so I don't risk flying into some huge stupid full screen mode when reading PDF:s for example. It's infuriating to think that there's finally a PDF reader included with windows, yet its function is so utterly limited due to the fact that it's a Metro app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mak123 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 no i'm not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthonyd Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's infuriating to think that there's finally a PDF reader included with windows, yet its function is so utterly limited due to the fact that it's a Metro app. What do you mean by "limited"? Copy/paste is working, search is working, printing is working, what else do I need? Adobe reader is a pain in the ass (it as resisdent service & painfull update system forcing you to reboot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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