UFC 143: Diaz vs. Condit

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Grand Master

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UFC143_04_JPG_large.jpg

And here we are at the 2nd PPV of the year and it looks AMAZING on paper. Hopefully it will deliver. Let's look at the card.

Preliminary card (Facebook)

Rafael Natal vs. Michael Kuiper - A guy who lost to Rich Attonito against a guy who's making his UFC debut at 11-0 but never fought outside of Z-league European promotions? Oh undercard.

Dan Stittgen vs. Stephen Thompson - See above but 5-0 and Z-League American Promotions.

Preliminary card (FX)

Matt Brown vs. Chris Cope - With a combined record of 17-13, this is the blueprint for a "loser gets cut fight". Brown is pretty much an eternally low-tier WW who's 1-4 in his last 5 fights, making us wonder how he hasn't been cut yet. Probably because he's been finished in all of those fights, providing material for highlight reels. Cope, on the other hand, didn't drop to LW like pretty much everyone on TUF and is also very low-tier. If he picks up 2 losses in a row, he'll surely find himself fighting for Tachi Palace.

Alex Caceres vs. Edwin Figueroa - Caceres aka Bruce Leeroy was a "star" on TUF (at least for Dana White) but kept getting raped at FW. Now he's trying to reinvent himself at BW and has already picked up a nice win over Cole Escovedo. He will face natural BW Jason Reinhardt who picked up a pretty brutal KO at UFC on Versus 5. Should be an interesting fight.

Matthew Riddle vs. Henry Martinez - Riddle didn't fight at UFC 141 due to an 11th hour illness. He comes in on "short" notice to fight newcomer Martinez. He always comes to band and is very interesting even in defeat. Should be fun.

Dustin Poirier vs. Max Holloway - I don't get this fight. Poirier is 11-1 and is pretty much a future title contender. Why is he fighting a 4-0 newcomer to the UFC? I know this fight has been changed a couple of times due to injury (first Koch and then Lamas) but wouldn't it be better just to scrap the fight instead of this? If Poirier wins (very likely) he stays in the same spot in the FW division. If he loses (like when he derrailed Grispi), the UFC loses a potential contender and a big potential fight against Koch (but gets a fight against Hominick). Holloway is getting thrown to the sharks.

Main card

Ed Herman vs. Clifford Starks - Prospect Starks gets to step up in competition against veteran Ed Herman. No relevance for the MW title picture at all but should provide an entertaining.... who am I kidding, this is going to end up in the judges scorecards.

Renan Bar?o vs. Scott Jorgensen - The future BW champion, Bar?o, gets to slay another Top 10 opponent in his path to the belt. Jorgensen is no slouch but after seeing what Bar?o did to Brad Pickett, I don't think he's got what it takes to stop him. Bar?o is strong, agressive, extremely well rounded and very fast. And he's the man that will finally replace The Decisionator Dominick Cruz.

Josh Koscheck vs. Mike Pierce - By MMAth, Pierce lost against Johny Hendricks so Koscheck, being a better wrestler and also having a big hand, should take this and start his climb back to WW contendership.

Roy Nelson vs. Fabricio Werdum - Werdum makes his way back to UFC and fights Big Country, who looked like a different fighter against Mirko. Nelson has the grappling credentials to tangle with Werdum on the ground and is a better striker so I'll give him the edge, provided he kept with his diet regime. Werdum may sometimes be passive and pull guard but his cardio is pretty good.

Nick Diaz vs. Carlos Condit - Needs no introduction really. First it was GSP vs Diaz, then GSP vs Condit, then Diaz again and now they're fighting eachother. I personally want Condit to win but I think Diaz will take it. Diaz's chin is solid granite and if Hardy can land that many punches on you, so can Diaz but harder. I hope I get it wrong.

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Grand Master

trag3dy

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Anyone who claims to be a fight fan and cannot stand the Diaz bros should second guess themselves - imo.

Why? It has nothing to do with their abilities, they're both just complete idiots and douche bags. Attitude and personality are more important than having a certain limited skill set.

Grand Master

Yorak

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Awww, Diaz is a little bitch and is leaving now because he lost. Yes, he chased Condit around the entire time, but the fact is, that is exactly what Condit trained for. He hit him so many times as he was escaping him. He was the rightful victor and Diaz can go **** himself.

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dippednbutter

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Why? It has nothing to do with their abilities, they're both just complete idiots and douche bags. Attitude and personality are more important than having a certain limited skill set.

Rereading your comments made me delete my reply to you. You haven't a clue do you?

Grand Master

trag3dy

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Rereading your comments made me delete my reply to you. You haven't a clue do you?

Why don't you fill me in because likes and dislikes are a fairly personal thing yeah? I'm not denying Nick Diaz is a very skilled fight. What I'm saying is I don't like him because he's a jackass. What do I need a clue about? Just look at the two previous posts above yours to see my point.

So keep being vague while trying to make a point and let me know how that works out for you.

Grand Master

D. S. Veteran

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That was overall a pretty great PPV. Watched pretty much all the fights.

Preliminary card (Facebook)

Rafael Natal vs. Michael Kuiper - Didn't watch.

Dan Stittgen vs. Stephen Thompson - What a KO. With his karate style, Thompson looked a lot like Machida. Quick punching rushes and versatile kicks, ending with that amazing kick that was an instant KO. He's 6-0 in MMA and was 57-0 as a Kickboxer but let's not get carried away. He's fights at WW, which is a pretty stacked division and, like Machida, he showed similar weak spots against also agressive attacks. His ground game also remains to be tested. He has a great BJJ pedigree but BJJ isn't MMA. Can he beat a strong top control wrestler? If he's brought along slowly, he can develop into a good WW fighter.

Preliminary card (FX)

Matt Brown vs. Chris Cope - Cope got KTFO by Brown. He never looked in the fight at all. His choice of fighting at WW instead of LW combined with his limited skills make him a great record padder. He should probably go get some more experience in the B-Leagues before returning (if ever) to the UFC. Brown picked up a much needed win but he's not out of the woods yet since he's still carrying a 2-3 record in his last 5. Maybe have him fight Stephen Thompson.

Alex Caceres vs. Edwin Figueroa - In normal circunstances, this fight would have been a 29-28 for Caceres. And it was. But the 2 point deduction cost him that. He did try to finish the fight after that because he knew it was his only chance at a win (or a 10-8 round) but Figueroa hanged in there and ended up getting the "win". Caceres also failed in some points because he always went for the RNC when the D'arce, Anaconda, Triangle or Armbar were available. As for the 2 point deduction, I still haven't made up my mind yet. The groin kicks were brutal and could have turned the tide of the fight. It was not like it was a repeated but bening foul like grabbing the shorts or the ocasional eye poke. One thing is certain, Caceres's drop to BW has massively improved his career and he'll live to fight another day.

Matthew Riddle vs. Henry Martinez - Martinez fights normally at LW (even at FW sometimes) and that was pretty clear. Riddle towered over him and used his massive size and reach advantage to get the W. Riddle came to bang as expected, the ending of the 2nd round is the hallmark of his style. He's an exciting fighter and will be fighting in the UFC for a long time. Martinez gets kudos for taking the fight on short notice and shoudl return to his natural weightclass for the next one.

Dustin Poirier vs. Max Holloway - Like I said, Holloway got eaten. I don't get why Hawaiians take pride in being full out fighters instead of, you know, smart strong fighters who win. Didn't he watch tape on Poirier? I expected him to lose but he could have at least showed some semblance of a game plan. He came out, guns blazing, throwing flying knees everywhere he could. Poirier did his thing and showed why he's a top contender for the FW title, adjusting his gameplan from striking to grappling and scoring a really slick submission. His transitions were pretty great and to adjust a triangle from guard into mount + armbar was impressive. His fight with Erik Koch needs to happen.

Main Card

Ed Herman vs. Clifford Starks - Thankfully I was wrong about this going to a decision. Starks looked absolutely massive compared to Ed Herman but his skillset is still developing. Despite trying to stiffle Herman against the cage, Herman made use of his experience and put the wrestler Starks on his back (triggering his "giving up the back" instincts)with an amazing throw and quickly got the mount. Back to the drawing board for Starks.

Renan Bar?o vs. Scott Jorgensen - Bar?o did what he does best, great all round game and a clear win. But the way in which he won left me doubting his chances at winning the belt. No doubt he's a Top 10 BW. No doubt he outrstuck and outgrappled Jorgensen. But the way he paced the fight and didn't push for the finish would only work into Dominick Cruz's style of fighting. Jorgensen got hit with a LOT of shots and kicks. He withstood them with ease but got hit nonetheless. Cruz's style of moving in and out and striking isn't going to threathen Bar?o but like we saw in the Main Event tonight, could be enough to get a decision win since Bar?o doesn't have powerfull wrestling to get Cruz imobilized. He will probably get one more fight before a title shot (since Faber and Cruz are doind TUF 15) so let's see what improvements and preparations he can make. All of this of course if Faber doesn't take the title from Cruz. In that case, since Bar?o is the BW Jos? Aldo, I predict TKO by leg kicks. I don't who will be his next dance partner since well, he already beat every BW ranked above him except Faber. With Benavidez dropping to FLW and Bowles coming in on a loss, I don't see who else his available to further his title aspirations. Maybe Miguel Torres? Jorgensen should fight Bowles.

Josh Koscheck vs. Mike Pierce - Meh. I was so put off by this fight that I don't even care to write something about it. Pierce isn't top tier material but he made Koscheck look, well, average. There were no OH! or OUCH! moments and it probably should have ended as a majority draw with the 1 point deduction Koscheck should have gotten for his constant pokes.

Roy Nelson vs. Fabricio Werdum - This fight reminded me of Edgar vs Maynard III. Werdum put an absolute beating on Nelson only to let off the gas pedal in the 2nd round. His cardio wasn't THAT good but he was hanging in there and surely had enough juice in the 2nd to finish the fight. Instead he moved around and almost got caught with a big right. In the end, he deserved the W but the win left a bad taste in my mouth. It's also amazing to see that, despite both fighters weighing in at 246, Werdum looked huge compared to Nelson. Nelson looked like Tim Boetsch at LHW, bloated and undersized. He should be fighting at least at LHW, MW would be perfect. Werdum comes back to the UFC with a win. And they will probably have him fight Mir next. Why I don't know, since Mir is pretty the only guy in the HW division right now that resembles a title contender. Either him or Mike Russow who's 4-0. I would have Werdum fight Cheick Kongo after he kills Mark Hunt.

Nick Diaz vs. Carlos Condit - MY MAN, THE NATURAL BORN KILLER, CARLOS CONDIT! :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: Condit proves that it's fighting smarter, not harder than wins fights. Being a Greg Jackson fighter, he knew the importance of a great gameplan for this fight. He also knew how Diaz's style works and worked around it. He wasn't going to win in a straight up brawl since Diaz's chin, like I said countless times, is pretty much solid granite. So he fought smart, kept his distance, used his kicks and foot movement and didn't allow Diaz's to corner him against the cage and unload. That was BJ's error that ultimately cost him the fight and his career (hawaiians :rolleyes: ). Diaz kept tauting but Condit kept his cool, even when on his back against a BJJ monster like Diaz, implemented his gameplan and got a much deserved win. Condit vs GSP, here we go! (Also, had GSP fought Diaz, I think the fight would have gone pretty much exactly like this).

Grand Master

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Just read the news that he decided to retire. LULWAT? Ran from you the whole fight? Kalib Starnes called, he wants you to stop desecrating his legacy. Nick Diaz MMA Rules: LET'S BANG, BRO. Anything else is forbidden.

Either he's really pouting or he's trying to get himself out of his UFC contract so he can go for a boxing career. "Retiring" from MMA would pretty much do it.

I can already see it: ProElite: Penn vs Diaz, Out of Retirment.

Grand Master

Bubbabyte

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I would have to agree with you bun bun, pretty much the same feeling on the entire event. Diaz is such a whiny little bitch, but i don't just blame him, i blame his corner. Did anyone else notice that before going into the 5th round, brother Nate said "you're up 3 to 1".. WTF? Are you serious? It's mind boggling that so many people picked diaz to win this fight and underestimated Condit soo much. Diaz is a pillow puncher, with most of his shots going to the body, which is just plain stupid if you have no power. Sure it might score you some points for the shots, but it's not affecting anyone. Also, someone with such a high level of BJJ that only wants to stand up and throw his pillow punches, SHOULD lose, it's your fault for coming in with such a stupid game plan. You're not boxing, you're in MMA. The diaz brothers are always making comments about wrestlers laying and praying, and taking people down for points etc.. well that's how the game is played morons, learn how to defend the takedowns. Condit was incredibly smart, i wouldn't call it running AT ALL, it was more of a machida type thing, throw some crazy punch + kick + kick combos and gtfo.

Now with that said, another mind boggling factor is how many other fighters/trainers though diaz won this fight.. not sure what they were watching, here are just a few comments.

"That decision was an absolute joke," Pat Militech

"I am done teaching guys to fight! Gonna teach them to run like bitch & hold guys down like a bitch it wins! How do u like that fight fans?" Duke roufus

"

Condit wins via decision. Great fight. I think I had it 3-2 Diaz but need to watch again." Ariel Helwani

"Wow, I would not want to judge that one. I had it even after 4. And diaz in the 5th" Dan Henderson

Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva sitting ringside had Diazwinning. Champions know really who won" Cesar Gracie

I do NOT want to see a rematch, diaz doesn't deserve it in my opinion with his fight antics, end of round bull**** (holding the leg, TWICE), and his post fight crying. I'd be happy to not see him fight again, at least until he gets his mental issues under control.

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Nerd Rage

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Diaz is a whiner, but Condit had no intention of actually fighting him. He just wanted to get up on the score cards and run for the rest of the fight. I agree with the judges that Condit won, but that was a very wussy way of "winning" an MMA fight. So much for being "The Natural Born Killer".....

Grand Master

Bubbabyte

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What you're saying makes no sense nerd rage, you're entitled to your opinion obviously but to say that condit ran from him for the entire fight is a little over the top. Diaz is CLEARLY the better boxer, we all know this, condit knows this, greg jackson knows this.. so why would your game plan be to stand and trade with him for 5 rounds? It's Diaz's fault for believing that everyone wants to stand up with him, when it's sooo far from the truth it's laughable. While you may think it's a "wussie" way of winning, it's incredibly smart either way. Look at the fightmetric stats, and you'll see that condit wasn't "running" as you put it. Condit had almost as many head shots as Diaz did, but with like 5 times more leg kicks. I fail to see how Condits leg kicks did any less damage than Diaz's body shots, in fact i guarantee they did more damage and that's why diaz was getting frustrated.

Like i said, it's your opinion but you shoudl really think about the facts before making those kind of statements, for example the james tony vs Couture fight.. did anyone REALLY expect randy to stand and box with him, of course not, it would be stupid. Do you think randy is a "wussy" for taking him down and subbing him? it was SMART not "wussy".

Grand Master

D. S. Veteran

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Diaz just looks permanently ****ed off. I was half expecting a Paul Daley style situation when the scores were heard. He was no different than my brother when we played Monopoly. As soon as I started winning (all within the rules), the board was sure to be thrown across the room with a "I'M NOT PLAYING ANYMORE, YOU'RE CHEATING".

Should Roy Nelson have jumped into the guard of Werdum? Why isn't anybody criticizing Nelson about that?

It's a fight. Diaz didn't make the necessary adjustments to close the distance like any good fighter should. Look at the Cruz vs Johnson fight. Cruz completely switched his gameplan when he saw that Mighty Mouse was getting the better of him on the striking exchanges. Diaz just kept plodding forward. His striking is vicious, his chin is granite but as we know wrestlers are his kriptonyte. Care to guess why? Because they refuse to stand and bang against a guy with that kind of skill.

And everyone who says Condit was running should be forced to watch Quarry vs Starnes or even Houston Alexander vs Kimbo Slice.

HOW DARED CONDIT REFUSE TO GET HIT? JUST BLEED MAN!!!

I would have to agree with you bun bun, pretty much the same feeling on the entire event. Diaz is such a whiny little bitch, but i don't just blame him, i blame his corner. Did anyone else notice that before going into the 5th round, brother Nate said "you're up 3 to 1".. WTF? Are you serious? It's mind boggling that so many people picked diaz to win this fight and underestimated Condit soo much. Diaz is a pillow puncher, with most of his shots going to the body, which is just plain stupid if you have no power. Sure it might score you some points for the shots, but it's not affecting anyone. Also, someone with such a high level of BJJ that only wants to stand up and throw his pillow punches, SHOULD lose, it's your fault for coming in with such a stupid game plan. You're not boxing, you're in MMA. The diaz brothers are always making comments about wrestlers laying and praying, and taking people down for points etc.. well that's how the game is played morons, learn how to defend the takedowns. Condit was incredibly smart, i wouldn't call it running AT ALL, it was more of a machida type thing, throw some crazy punch + kick + kick combos and gtfo.

Now with that said, another mind boggling factor is how many other fighters/trainers though diaz won this fight.. not sure what they were watching, here are just a few comments.

"That decision was an absolute joke," Pat Militech

"I am done teaching guys to fight! Gonna teach them to run like bitch & hold guys down like a bitch it wins! How do u like that fight fans?" Duke roufus

"

Condit wins via decision. Great fight. I think I had it 3-2 Diaz but need to watch again." Ariel Helwani

"Wow, I would not want to judge that one. I had it even after 4. And diaz in the 5th" Dan Henderson

Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva sitting ringside had Diazwinning. Champions know really who won" Cesar Gracie

I do NOT want to see a rematch, diaz doesn't deserve it in my opinion with his fight antics, end of round bull**** (holding the leg, TWICE), and his post fight crying. I'd be happy to not see him fight again, at least until he gets his mental issues under control.

I find it ironic that most of the guys that said that probably agree that Martin Kampmann should have gotten the decision nod against Diego Sanchez (who was bleeding like a faucet compared to Kampmann's flawless face).

Grand Master

Bubbabyte

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Diaz just looks permanently ****ed off. I was half expecting a Paul Daley style situation when the scores were heard.

Should Roy Nelson have jumped into the guard of Werdum? Why isn't anybody criticizing Nelson about that?

It's a fight. Diaz didn't make the necessary adjustments to close the distance like any good fighter should. Look at the Cruz vs Johnson fight. Cruz completely switched his gameplan when he saw that Mighty Mouse was getting the better of him on the striking exchanges. Diaz just kept plodding forward. His striking is vicious, his chin is granite but as we know wrestlers are his kriptonyte. Care to guess why? Because they refuse to stand and bang against a guy with that kind of skill.

And everyone who says Condit was running should be forced to watch Quarry vs Starnes or even Houston Alexander vs Kimbo Slice.

SO true dude. I can't understand why this is so hard for some people to grasp. MMA or at least the ufc was created in part to find out which martial art could top the next etc.. so in essence it's always been a sport of "anything can happen" because of the mass amount of disciplines that one person can have. Would people have expected Royce Gracie too outstrike someone in the early days? Of Course not, he's a BJJ genius, people knew this when they fought him, if they didn't train enough to be able deal with it, then the only person to blame is their selves. It's such an incredibly simple concept. Yet the people who can't wrestle, complain about wrestlers. The people who can't submit, complain about BJJ guys laying on their back pulling guard. This is a sport where you HAVE to be well rounded, because there is no excuses when you get taken down by a wrestler and can't do anything because you didn't cover enough wrestling in your training. What's shocking is that Diaz aside from ****ty takedowns and takedown defence has amazing BJJ and Striking.. yet he wants to just stand and strike not because he wants to make an amazing fight, he's said many times that he doesn't care if people cheer for him or enjoy his fights.. he does it because he believes in his mind that he's untouchable on his feet. While that may be the case against some, it certainly doesn't give you a golden ticket to make others stand up with you.

The examples bun bun mentioned are brilliant, nobody criticized Nelson for not wanting to go to the ground, it's the same ****, different fight.

Condit was the better and much smarter fighter last night, the diaz brothers just need to grow up.

What's really funny is that you can just imagine what the conversation was like backstage after the fight between the 2 brothers, just mad at the world, everyone else is to blame, the sport sucks, the fans suck, the judges suck.. everyone but the diaz brothers suck.

Grand Master

D. S. Veteran

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What you got against Hawaiians?

Nothing really but if you watched Max Holloway's videos leading up to his debut, every time it's WE HAWAIIANS LIKE TO SCRAP YO! Instead of, you know, fighting smart against a guy who's way out of your league skillwise. Same thing for BJ Penn trying to stand and bang against Diaz just for bragging rights and ending up getting smashed to bits.

Grand Master

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Salaries are out.

Carlos Condit: ($110,000 including a $55,000 win bonus) def. Nick Diaz ($200,000)

Goddamn! Condit was set to make (officially) 55.000$ for a Main Event for the belt? Christ.

Also shocking is that Roy Nelson got 20.000$ against Werdum's 100K (no win bonus).

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dippednbutter

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Nothing really but if you watched Max Holloway's videos leading up to his debut, every time it's WE HAWAIIANS LIKE TO SCRAP YO! Instead of, you know, fighting smart against a guy who's way out of your league skillwise. Same thing for BJ Penn trying to stand and bang against Diaz just for bragging rights and ending up getting smashed to bits.

Max was doing very well in the entry level circuit as a pro but got thrown into face Porier a tad bit premature don't you think? Build ups to a fight when you take pride in your heritage is no different than the Portuguese in Brazil. To roll your eyes at a race in your post seemed pretty racist.

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dippednbutter

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http://bjpenn.com/mm...atch-13489.html

?Sources close to the deal just now confirmed with The Underground that Carlos Condit has accepted a rematch with Nick Diaz for the interim welterweight title.

Condit said ?Yes, I accept the rematch? and will be in Las Vegas on Thursday to finalize the deal with the UFC.?

According the The Underground, Carlos Condit has in fact accepted the rematch with Nick Diaz and it?s going down in Las Vegas, although no specific date was given just yet. Stay tuned to BJPenn.com for updates.

Condit and Diaz fought to a controversial five round decision this past weekend at UFC 143, that has left MMA fans divided on who they believe won the fight. Diaz fans claim that Condit did nothing but run the entire fight, while Condit supports point to sources like FightMetric to prove their case. Either way, it looks like the two are on a path to meet at least one more time, as Diaz will once again get the chance to fight his fight, and walk away the interim UFC welterweight champion.

UPDATE: Dana White, via his Twitter account, has confirmed that Condit has in fact accepted the rematch, and will be coming to Vegas on Friday to finalize it. In another tweet, he specifically said that ?Carlos wanted it?.

Grand Master

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It's all pretty much a mess right now. Carlos said yes but Diaz still hasn't said anything (neither yes or no) about it. The only way this rematch would make sense was if it was for the real belt (GSP gives it up after a year, this isn't Strikeforce you know) and they go at it again.

Grand Master

Bubbabyte

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Yeah i think this is a horrible idea.. i don't for a second believe the whole "carlos wanted it" scenerio. This sets a very bad example for everyone in the UFC that if you cry enough you'll get what you want. It's no secret that diaz vs gsp is a money maker.. but condit beat him, without a doubt in my mind and deserves the shot. **** Diaz and his whiny bull****, he does not deserve a rematch.

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