Windows 8, enough after about 2 hours

[spudtrooper]

If I wanted my PC to look, act, or operate like an XBox or Windows 7 Phone, then I would have bought one or all of the aforementioned, apart from the PC, as it is a PC, and I own it, and want it to remain so, as in a PC, with a proper PC OS software running on it!

Windows 8 does run windows 7 software... so you don't lose anything by upgrading to windows 8 unless you really are lost without a start by in which case you aren't the PC user you think you are :)

Honestly, it just takes about 30 minutes of messing around to become familiar with the changes. Once you're familiar you realize the changes are important because they make everything universal.

Also, its less about managing files and processes and programs and more about getting in and getting out. BTW, when you do download an image, it goes to your image folder.. :)

Yeah, I downloaded a picture and haven't any idea where it went... lol

It goes to your images folder.. which if you click on the images / photos application will show it. and then you can click charm and sync to send it to other devices or sky drive.. its really fantastically easy once you bother to learn it :) Its just different.

[Skin]

Start menu can show 15+ most recently used apps with 10px font size that your eyes only have search for the lower left corner. Metro tiles waste tons of screen real estate while at the same time force your eyes to search for the whole screen to look for the apps you want.. It's pretty obvious which is more efficient and less eye strain inducing.

so agree on this one.

So Disappointed with this boring Desktop Interface that's been around since the Dinosaurs roamed the earth. Clearly MS you have abandoned us Desktop Users and gone to the Mobile Dark Side. What happened MS to the promise of one the best Desktop UI Interface, not to mention File System:

my goodness. I want that OS and I want it now....

sigh.

[Ambroos]

I guess I don't really miss the start menu, all that functionality is still there.

What I really miss is being able to see what I am actually doing. With Windows 8 I have no idea if that download I have running is still going on. I can't use ONE fixed keyboard shortcut that always brings me to the same window (like Winkey+1 always brings me to Chrome in my 7). I can't see my Facebook tab name to see if there is a new notification. Windows 8 just lacks overview. And Windows. Windows without windows is annoying to use.

I want to see what I am running at all times. I want a task bar. On my phone I don't need to know what is running, because you don't really multitask and it isn't a very versatile device in general. My PC has to do a lot of different things, and I want to be able to do them all at the same time in a proper way. Without going back to the start screen or flicking through ALL open apps all the time.

[Som]

something thats annoying me, when you search for something (for example printers) , nothing appears because apps is the default search query, you gotta click settings and then the results appear, wouldn't it make sense that if no apps appear that it would show the settings results instead, annoyed me a bit.

Another thing is on metro you have pictures, videos and music apps, thats fine except if your like me and have all your music & videos on a NAS drive, no hope of adding them because, like in windows 7, you can't include network drives into your library (yes i'm aware they're are ways around this with commands etc) but most people won't know how to do that

would it be so hard to include a little button that says traditional desktop or touch screen so we have a choice not to use metro, because they're are some great new features and its stable and fast....

[Eric Veteran]

@Ambroos: The Win-# hotkeys for the desktop taskbar still function the same as in Windows 7.

@Som: Use Win-W to search for settings directly.

[Som]

@Ambroos: The Win-# hotkeys for the desktop taskbar still function the same as in Windows 7.

@Som: Use Win-W to search for settings directly.

been using computers since DOS, point is i shouldn't have to use commands and searching settings is just a tiny silly thing anyways, i'm really trying to get used to it but metro is just not good for desktops, anyone else notice right click is basically useless now and does nothing is most cases

i remember when windows 7 beta first had that superbar, took all of 5 minutes to think it was a great improvement, i find myself just getting stressed and frustrated with windows 8 (just the metro bit) all the other new features are really good, i like the ribbon on explorer, the new task manager is good, the way it handles network devices is nice (or any portable device as well), i even like the lock screen ...

[TruckWEB]

Nice to read everything here and to discover that in 2012, keyboard shortcut are all the rage again, thanks to Win8.....

Let's bring back command line, that was easy....

[M_Lyons10]

It goes to your images folder.. which if you click on the images / photos application will show it. and then you can click charm and sync to send it to other devices or sky drive.. its really fantastically easy once you bother to learn it :) Its just different.

Interesting, because I looked there (Naturally, as it would make sense), and no picture. Downloaded again. No picture. A third time. No picture. This is not a case of me "not bothering" to learn it. It simply hinders productivity and doesn't "just work" as it should... I know my pictures somewhere. God knows where... lol

[Croc Ography]

Taking up less space on the screen doesn't automatically make the Start menu efficient.

Again with a 30" or 27" monitor it certainly does especially with the new arrangement of tiles. Also if your previous start programs list was a mess maybe your new start screen is too and you do not care, but mine never was. And as I mentioned previously I do not use search in the start screen.

Again, I disagree. The Start Screen and immersive apps may be getting a lot of attention from the lets-judge-an-OS-based-on-screenshots crowd but it's clear that Microsoft have been doing a lot of work behind the scenes. The new task manager, copy and paste, storage spaces, improved networking, etc are all examples where MS are fixing and extending features in the core OS.

As I said previously I don't disagree that they have been doing lots of work behind the scenes but they could have done a lot more if they hadn't concentrated so much on the tablet interface. I certainly believe they missed a very good opportunity to really polish Win7. Dog forbid that Win8 ends up looking as disperate as OSX which is now a disaster.

I will let this conversation go now, it is sometimes hard to get your points across in this format and I think that is what is happening.

I want to see what I am running at all times. I want a task bar. On my phone I don't need to know what is running, because you don't really multitask and it isn't a very versatile device in general. My PC has to do a lot of different things, and I want to be able to do them all at the same time in a proper way. Without going back to the start screen or flicking through ALL open apps all the time.

Bingo! You have hit the nail on the head, this is what I have been trying to explain to other people on this board as well. I completely agree with you.

[JaredFrost]

I'm starting to think Windows 8 is a scheme thought up by devious Microsoft employees so they wont have to work as hard, since the OS is so single task oriented.

[Ryster]

I installed it on a VM, and on my wife's laptop early this morning. We both used it for our normal stuff all day long. We also both have (and absolutley love) Windows Phone 7.

Reverted the laptop to a Windows Home Server backup from last night, so it's back to normal.

The biggest issues for her were:

1) No ability to print in Mail

2) No Favorites in Immersive IE

3) No Search from Address Bar in Immersive IE

4) Not great for multi-tasking. She usually has multiple brower windows open, Windows Live Messenger and Windows Live Mail. While the multiple browsers can be addressed on the regular desktop, in that view there is no way to know if you have new instant messages or emails.

Overall it was not a great experience.

From my point of view (as a .NET developer) I was also disappointed. Doing simple things (like printing) seemed impossible and the apps are far from beta quality in my opinion. Switching back and forth between the start screen and the desktop (again, in Visual Studio all day long) seemed unnatural. I instant message with my wife all day long (even though we're in the same house, I'm in my office upstairs, so it's just easier) and switching between Visual Studio, to the start screen to get a new IM was a mess. I couldn't stand it.

You are aware that nobody is forcing you (her) to use the (clearly early beta version) Mail and Messaging apps that come bundled in the CP right? If you want to stay on the desktop and not have to switch back into Metro to check email and IMs, then install a desktop email and IM client. It's not rocket science.

Also for the record, there ARE favourites in immersive IE... they're called pinned pages. Just click the big round pin button. Not only do they pin on the start screen (which you can remove if you wish), but they pin on the new tab page too. Also no search from address bar? That's a load of nonsense as well. I just typed "jcb" into the IE10 Metro address bar and got a bing page with a list of search results. Not great for multitasking? Had a laugh at that one. Now not being able to print in IE10 Metro? Again, what are you (is she) smoking? Ever heard of CTRL + P for print? You know, the print shortcut key in use in windows since the dawn of time?

I want to see what I am running at all times. I want a task bar. On my phone I don't need to know what is running, because you don't really multitask and it isn't a very versatile device in general. My PC has to do a lot of different things, and I want to be able to do them all at the same time in a proper way. Without going back to the start screen or flicking through ALL open apps all the time.

You already can, just hover your mouse at the top left or bottom left of the screen and you get a vertical list of all the running apps, being able to close them (or pin them left or right on the desktop) with a simple right click. I really like the ability to pin a single metro app to the side of the classic desktop. Like having an IM conversation window open while I work on my website.

[M_Lyons10]

I guess I don't really miss the start menu, all that functionality is still there.

What I really miss is being able to see what I am actually doing. With Windows 8 I have no idea if that download I have running is still going on. I can't use ONE fixed keyboard shortcut that always brings me to the same window (like Winkey+1 always brings me to Chrome in my 7). I can't see my Facebook tab name to see if there is a new notification. Windows 8 just lacks overview. And Windows. Windows without windows is annoying to use.

I want to see what I am running at all times. I want a task bar. On my phone I don't need to know what is running, because you don't really multitask and it isn't a very versatile device in general. My PC has to do a lot of different things, and I want to be able to do them all at the same time in a proper way. Without going back to the start screen or flicking through ALL open apps all the time.

I agree with you entirely. I don't see how not knowing what's running is a good thing honestly... lol

Now not being able to print in IE10 Metro? Again, what are you (is she) smoking? Ever heard of CTRL + P for print? You know, the print shortcut key in use in windows since the dawn of time?

Now, I have not attempted to print anything, but I don't think we can honestly expect the average user to use shortcuts... You and I may, but I would argue most don't. If there is no way within the UI to print, as far as the average user is concerned, it cannot print...

[PGHammer]

I've installed it as my Primary OS and loving it too much to return to Windows 7. Seems faster and smoother to use once you complete the updates and get a hang of the shortcut keys and new features.

Same here - I posted last night that I had basically put Windows 7 in the same category as Vista, XP, and x32 OSes - suitable only for VMs.

The issue with Windows 8 is not application OR driver compatibility on desktops (the Developer Preview itself proved that).

Instead, the issue is the person behind the keyboard - the user.

The Windows 8 UI is (as both Steven Sinofsky and Steve Ballmer put it) the biggest UI change in Windows since Windows 95 (and the NT4 UI mirroring it two years later).

It's the NT4 situation that is more analogous to the reaction to Windows 8, as the UI change is just as jarring.

How many of you were around for that? (Also, notice that it took two years.)

[Ryster]

Now, I have not attempted to print anything, but I don't think we can honestly expect the average user to use shortcuts... You and I may, but I would argue most don't. If there is no way within the UI to print, as far as the average user is concerned, it cannot print...

I agree to an extent, but for print CTRL+P has been the shortcut for that since before I was born (or near enough), the same for CTRL+S for save, etc. Not to say I disagree that the immersive IE needs a bit of work (as do all the Metro apps), but this is early Beta after all. It's only just come out of pre-beta (ie. alpha). Things like this will be resolved over the course of the next 8 months or so.

[PGHammer]

Not working :(

Edit:

Working only in Legacy view

Define Legacy View.

I've been messing around with it in desktop IE10, and it works a treat here on the forums. I'll be trying it with other Web pages and even see how it cooperates in browser-based gaming - if it works there, that alone will be a major win.

[Ambroos]

You already can, just hover your mouse at the top left or bottom left of the screen and you get a vertical list of all the running apps, being able to close them (or pin them left or right on the desktop) with a simple right click. I really like the ability to pin a single metro app to the side of the classic desktop. Like having an IM conversation window open while I work on my website.

I don't want to see that screenshot-like stuff. I want clear representations of the applications I have opened (icons, or at least thumbnails with icons). And I want to be able to see it at all times.

And that pinning... Well, some software already supported that in Windows 7. You can dock things left or right, and even force them to completely 'occupy' that space. OneNote for example can be docked to a side of your screen, and no application can ever cover it.

I'm glad to see many people agree with me about the seeing what's running and proper multitasking.

[Som]

Same here - I posted last night that I had basically put Windows 7 in the same category as Vista, XP, and x32 OSes - suitable only for VMs.

The issue with Windows 8 is not application OR driver compatibility on desktops (the Developer Preview itself proved that).

Instead, the issue is the person behind the keyboard - the user.

The Windows 8 UI is (as both Steven Sinofsky and Steve Ballmer put it) the biggest UI change in Windows since Windows 95 (and the NT4 UI mirroring it two years later).

It's the NT4 situation that is more analogous to the reaction to Windows 8, as the UI change is just as jarring.

How many of you were around for that? (Also, notice that it took two years.)

I'd have to disagree with this, the new UI is not intuitive. for instance in windows 95 they introduced the start menu. For new users it was fairly obvious, click start and then be greeted by Programs, Documents, Settings, Help and Shutdown. Not too hard to figure out really. Now with Windows 8 UI you have this screen with "apps" that load things like facebook fairly well, great for those who use there computer for the solely for the internet, but click explorer and your back to the desktop, press start and your back to metro, click opera or any old style application, word, paint, photoshop, media player, and your back to the desktop.

You want pictures for instance, you press start, you press photos, you have the option to open local photos or facebook, you open local photos, you have to zoom out to see your large collection , you find the photo, you want to edit it in photoshop and ... you press "win+e" cause you can't open with in "metro" because they've mutilated the best feature that separated windows from macs ... right click

[L1520]

Calm down and give it the time it deserves. It's not easy to make a big paradigm switch overnight. Roll with it and as time passes, you will not only become more comfortable with the Start Screen, but you will definitely appreciate it when you have to go to another machine and go back to using the Start Menu. Two hours is not enough. Two days is not enough. Work through the pains of change for a couple weeks in order to appreciate what's been done here.

My earlier post saying people need to grow a pair + start using the OS properly still stands, however you put it much more eloquently than I did!

You are spot on sir, people should take heed from your comment.

[Ryster]

I don't want to see that screenshot-like stuff. I want clear representations of the applications I have opened (icons, or at least thumbnails with icons). And I want to be able to see it at all times.

And that pinning... Well, some software already supported that in Windows 7. You can dock things left or right, and even force them to completely 'occupy' that space. OneNote for example can be docked to a side of your screen, and no application can ever cover it.

I'm glad to see many people agree with me about the seeing what's running and proper multitasking.

Each to his own. You are entitled to you opinion. Personally, I don't have a compulsive need to see what's running at all times, and when I want to see, or switch to something else, or close it, I just bring up the task list down the left hand side. Which, by the way, I've just discovered you can bring up instantly with WIN+TAB. You don't even need to move your mouse to the corner.

[PGHammer]

Hey...those having relatively large displays, have you tried Semantic Zoom yet?

Ctrl + Mouse wheel

Yes - and it's a friggin blast.

Works in ANY HTML page in desktop IE10 - even browser-based games (which I expected to have the biggest issues).

The sixty-four cent issue is does this work in all browsers, or is this IE-exclusive? (I'm referring to WCP, of course.)

[PGHammer]

I'd have to disagree with this, the new UI is not intuitive. for instance in windows 95 they introduced the start menu. For new users it was fairly obvious, click start and then be greeted by Programs, Documents, Settings, Help and Shutdown. Not too hard to figure out really. Now with Windows 8 UI you have this screen with "apps" that load things like facebook fairly well, great for those who use there computer for the solely for the internet, but click explorer and your back to the desktop, press start and your back to metro, click opera or any old style application, word, paint, photoshop, media player, and your back to the desktop.

You want pictures for instance, you press start, you press photos, you have the option to open local photos or facebook, you open local photos, you have to zoom out to see your large collection , you find the photo, you want to edit it in photoshop and ... you press "win+e" cause you can't open with in "metro" because they've mutilated the best feature that separated windows from macs ... right click

You are thinking that the StartScreen replaced the desktop - which is not true, and has never been true. Unless you run Metro apps (and even that can be avoided) you see the StartScreen once - and won't see it again until and unless you restart your computer.

I use the StartScreen for three - and only three - things:

1. Launching the desktop (now a separate application) - the StartScreen replaces the Start menu; the desktop is thus off of that.

2. Metro application search/purchase/install (at first); however, you CAN launch even Metro applications without it.

3. Launching task-specific Metro apps (mostly Weather).

For everything else, I either use the same applications and games that I ran in Windows 7, or, in some cases, I use an included Windows 8 feature that made the application or third-party utility I used in 7 moot.

I still use Outlook for e-mail, Word for documents, etc.

[Som]

You are thinking that the StartScreen replaced the desktop - which is not true, and has never been true. Unless you run Metro apps (and even that can be avoided) you see the StartScreen once - and won't see it again until and unless you restart your computer.

I use the StartScreen for three - and only three - things:

1. Launching the desktop (now a separate application) - the StartScreen replaces the Start menu; the desktop is thus off of that.

2. Metro application search/purchase/install (at first); however, you CAN launch even Metro applications without it.

3. Launching task-specific Metro apps (mostly Weather).

For everything else, I either use the same applications and games that I ran in Windows 7, or, in some cases, I use an included Windows 8 feature that made the application or third-party utility I used in 7 moot.

I still use Outlook for e-mail, Word for documents, etc.

simple thing i might do fairly often ... "computer management"

in xp, vista, 7, server 2003, 2008... click start, right click my computer , select manage...

I'm trying to put this in words because its difficult to explain, for instance in my work desktop, i would switch between a large number of programs all visible available to me. if i want a new program (lets say one i don't use very offen so i don't have a shortcut) i press start and in windows 8 i now have a full screen of square pictures that hide all the applications i have open. I'm aware they are still open and they are right there on the desktop, i just find this full screen start menu completely useless for everything non metro, which will be almost everything for business users...

[migo]

Once I get the hang of it I'm liking the UI a lot more, and once there are a lot more Metro apps, and Flash finally goes the way of the Dodo, so I don't have to switch back to legacy mode it'll be better.

I always liked having the taskbar on the side in auto-hide mode so I wouldn't waste screen space. The problem was that it would sometimes not activate, or that I would mouse over to the edge of the screen to do something in my open app, and it would bring up the taskbar, or a notification would come in forcing the taskbar up until I dealt with it, which if it was a notification for an IM message and the other party was typing a lot, I'd never be able to take a few minutes to work in the app and then deal with the conversation. The new system works way better. Mouse to the top left corner to get your most recently used other app, slide down the side to bring up all the other apps. Only issue at the moment is legacy mode is essentially an emulator - if I've got 2 different programs open in legacy mode, the thumbnail only shows what's on top.

What puzzles me is there's 2 ways to access start. I'd rather not have the Start Screen in the bottom left corner, and just have it accessible from the charm on the right. Start in the bottom left seems to be an attempt to keep Start Menu users happy, but since that'll never work it'll be better to just take it out entirely. I also wouldn't mind being able to pin a few tiles to the Charm bar at the right, there's space for about 4 of them on my screen (1280x800 res), would be a convenient way of keeping some Windows 7 Taskbar functionality (like Aero Peek) in Windows 8. Aero Peek on the left task bar would also be nice to give to keyboard and mouse users, particularly for use in legacy mode.

[DarkyDan]

I don't understand the complaint about the tiles... once more apps use live tiles the start screen will be basically like a screen full of widgets and shortcuts.... not unlike a lot of Windows 7 setups.

I'm looking forward to a Metro Facebook app, maybe a Steam app. I think those two will work well in the new environment.

I will admit, not having more than 1 screen.. Windows 8 might not be as good for people using multi-monitor setups.

I installed it on my netbook but ZERO of the metro apps will run in 1024x600, so I've just unpinned them all and added regular high use shortcuts. I spend all my time in Desktop. Literally no dramas after I made sure photos, videos, and music didn't try to open in their respective metro apps.

[migo]

simple thing i might do fairly often ... "computer management"

in xp, vista, 7, server 2003, 2008... click start, right click my computer , select manage...

I'm trying to put this in words because its difficult to explain, for instance in my work desktop, i would switch between a large number of programs all visible available to me. if i want a new program (lets say one i don't use very offen so i don't have a shortcut) i press start and in windows 8 i now have a full screen of square pictures that hide all the applications i have open. I'm aware they are still open and they are right there on the desktop, i just find this full screen start menu completely useless for everything non metro, which will be almost everything for business users...

Start>Windows Explorer>Right Click on Computer>Manage... that's something I never do but I was able to figure out in under 30 seconds.