Windows 8, enough after about 2 hours

By patseguin
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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mollick2

Posted
Posted

5. After wake up from sleep, why do I have to slide a beautiful picture up with a mouse just for the sake of it? (not digging it)

All you have to do is tap the space bar.

At first I wasn't liking metro, but after giving it some time and actually working with it beyond just web browsing it's really grown on me. I would like to see the desktop and metro more integrated design and function wise, as is I can relate to it feeling like two separate operating systems. I do find the metro UI to be more useful then the start menu of Windows 7, just hit the Win key and have all the programs I need right there, weather, email, etc... without having a third party program or minimizing all my programs. I haven't found much use for the charm bar yet but I really haven't had to work in the metro UI much yet. I also haven't tried it on my dual screen setup yet either, though Windows has always been flaky with dual screens (snapping feature in 7 for instance).

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Anthonyd

Posted
Posted

No you are wrong. People will not use touch on a desktop. They will not extend their arm out and tofu the screen. Won't happen. They will apparently use a touch interface on the desktop but they won't be touching the screen, on anything other than an x86 tablet.

Then bring the screen close to you? Things will change, just like when the mouse first appeared.

Community Regular

Salutary7

Posted
Posted

I have to laugh when people say touch is the future of the desktop. Guess what? The lightpen was invented 60 years ago.

ibm_2250_display_unit.jpg

Hmm, I wonder why we gave up on this amazing ability to touch the monitor? Oh, because it sucks.

Who wants to always sit 2 feet from the screen and hold your arm out every time you want to do anything besides type?

Ironically enough, it was none other than Steve Jobs who showed how well the mouse works on the desktop by including it with the first Mac (even if he did steal the idea from Xerox :p).

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Monkeys4me

Posted
Posted

No you are wrong. People will not use touch on a desktop. They will not extend their arm out and tofu the screen. Won't happen. They will apparently use a touch interface on the desktop but they won't be touching the screen, on anything other than an x86 tablet.

It appears that Apple doesn't share your sentiment, as they are busy integrating touch into their desktop systems... not just a touch interface, but touch capabilities to their monitors.

I suspect that ultimately the future will involve the use of a touch interface on a desktop system via a Kinect-like experience, but we're in the process of baby-stepping our way there right now.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Hmm, I wonder why we gave up on this amazing ability to touch the monitor? Oh, because it sucks.

Who wants to always sit 2 feet from the screen and hold your arm out every time you want to do anything besides type?

Ironically enough, it was none other than Steve Jobs who showed how well the mouse works on the desktop by including it with the first Mac (even if he did steal the idea from Xerox :p).

If only you realized how many iPad users set up their iPads in the exact same manner...

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Monkeys4me

Posted
Posted

WTF? That made some SENCE!

I can ignore Metro and all the unfinished apps that come with it. But who is going to fix my dual screen and finding the hot corner issue? I feel so stressed when my mouse pointer goes over to next screen!

I guess not many people use dual monitors. Heck, even Microsoft doesn't seem to test their GUI failure on this one.

Overall, it's not a tidy experience. Been using Windows CP since its release and I still cannot like it.

Some plus points of Desktop mode:

1. Nice shiny file copy UI

2. Good task manager. But I find it annoying after a while.

3. System reset option

4. Right Click Power menu in lower left corner

5. Feels ever so slight fast than Windows 8. (esp. UAC prompts appear fast with shortest blink)

Negatives of desktop mode:

1. Shutting down needs getting used to. (I hate keyboard shortcuts)

2. Random stuff is hidden deep for no reason. (Eg. System image creation wizard. It took me forever to find it)

3. Hot Corner issue (Already beaten to death by me)

4. Annoying Metro apps take file opening defaults in desktop. (It prompts me to use another program but it is still annoying)

5. After wake up from sleep, why do I have to slide a beautiful picture up with a mouse just for the sake of it? (not digging it)

Bugs/Glitches of Desktop mode:

1. Some GUI glitches (explorer has black frames) This should be fixed soon

2. Copying files from (NAS) network drive to C: (root directory, Windows or Program Files directory) fails. But I can copy same files to Documents or Desktop without any problem.

3. Firefox needs hardware acceleration disabled otherwise it has GUI glitches.

4. Office 2010 has GUI glitches

I don't want to add any pluses or minuses of that turd called Metro

There's a lot to address here... let's see...

1) To address the Hot-Corner issue, I simply use Windows Key + C to bring up the Charms bar when I'm working on a dual-monitor set-up (which I do daily). Truth be told I don't find much use for the Charms bar all that often, but that may just be unique to me & my use habits (to be clear, I'm working off a laptop that does not have touch capabilities... so everything I do is via keyboard and mouse/touchpad). The fact that you accuse Microsoft of failing to test their GUI is a strong indicator that you're either speaking from emotion or ignorance. It's pretty well known that Microsoft does extensive usability testing... the fact that something doesn't work with YOUR preferred work style/habits is not an indication that it hasn't received positive results in their testing. Remember, they're working to meet the needs of hundreds of millions of users worldwide, from both the enterprise and consumer markets... which is not a trivial challenge to take on. Thing is, they have to make decisions based off real usability metrics, not the unscientific results of 'oh, we saw someone's comment on a message board'.

2) "Shutting down needs getting used to" - This I tend to agree with you on... while I understand they're trying to get users to switch their habits (from always shutting down their system, to putting it to sleep as their default choice), I prefer to shut down at this time. What I've done is simply add a Shutdown button to my Start page... you should give it a try: http://www.howtogeek...utdown-perhaps/

3) "Random stuff is hidden deep for no reason (Eg. System image creation wizard. It took me forever to find it)" - I suspect this is based off the notion of keeping the things most commonly used at a higher level than those less likely. Seeing as this is a beta, this may still end up being addressed by the time the OS is released.

4) "Annoying Metro apps take file opening defaults in desktop" - Right-click > Open with > Choose default program... how hard is that?

5) "After wake up from sleep, why do I have to slide a beautiful picture up with a mouse just for the sake of it?" - You don't... just tap the spacebar. Can't be much easier.

6) "Some GUI glitches (explorer has black frames)" - Well... it is a beta... you can't expect it to be bug-free. BTW... I don't have the black frames in explorer, so this may be unique to your system and the drivers it's running on.

7) "Copying files from (NAS) network drive to C: (root directory, Windows or Program Files directory) fails. But I can copy same files to Documents or Desktop without any problem" - I have no problems with copying files from my NAS, or any other Network source, to those locations... all I get is a prompt noting I need Admin access to do it, which I grant, and the copy occurs. This may well be an issue unique to your scenario, and I'd recommend you provide feedback to Microsoft so they have the opportunity to look into it.

8) "Firefox needs hardware acceleration disabled otherwise it has GUI glitches" - First of all, as noted before, we're talking about a beta OS... but beyond that this may well be an issue with Firefox (lord knows they've had their share of bugs in the past).

9) "Office 2010 has GUI glitches" - I work with Office 2010 in an enterprise environment every day, and haven't experienced any GUI glitches. Can you provide specific details?

Ultimately it's for you to choose whether or not you like Win8 and Metro... I can't tell you to like butter-pecan ice cream when you prefer chocolate-chip chunk (or whatever), but in my opinion Win8 is a really good evolutionary step forward for the platform on a desktop and non-touch laptop, and I think it's a great update to Microsoft's tablet/slate UI. But that's just my opinion... anyone who says it'll definitely succeed or fail is talking out of their butts... we'll only know the answer to that question after it's released, and the public gets their chance to vote with their dollars. I know that I'll be voting with mine through my next laptop upgrade (which will be a convertible tablet), as well as with the purchase of at least one slate for my household.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

No you are wrong. People will not use touch on a desktop. They will not extend their arm out and tofu the screen. Won't happen. They will apparently use a touch interface on the desktop but they won't be touching the screen, on anything other than an x86 tablet.

Good thing metro and the start screen, works just as well with a keyboard and mouse then, some things even better.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Also, I run dual screen and hot corners work just fine, with metro on both left and right side. There such a large to sit area even with Parkinson's you're not gonna miss it. So stop whining about it, people who whine about dual screen spot working sound like they haven't actually tried win 8 or they don't actually have dual screen.

Collaborator

Monkeys4me

Posted
Posted

What are you talking about?!

What part didn't you understand? I can't speak to specifics, because I don't want to put people's employment situations at risk, but I will provide a link to an article that was published about 18 months ago.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/apple-patents-a-desktop-touchscreen-computer/

Collaborator

Monkeys4me

Posted
Posted

I can't say I'm surprised...

Sorry if that makes you butt-hurt, however I'm not here to justify my existence to you (who is it again that you seem to think you are?), nor am I going to risk relationships I have for bragging rights on an Internet message board. I provided you with a link to a publicly available article which speaks to what I noted.. if that isn't good enough for you (or anyone else), too bad. Your existence, let alone what you think, is trivial to me. :)

Proficient

Anthonyd

Posted
Posted

I have to laugh when people say touch is the future of the desktop. Guess what? The lightpen was invented 60 years ago.

Hmm, I wonder why we gave up on this amazing ability to touch the monitor? Oh, because it sucks.

Who wants to always sit 2 feet from the screen and hold your arm out every time you want to do anything besides type?

Ironically enough, it was none other than Steve Jobs who showed how well the mouse works on the desktop by including it with the first Mac (even if he did steal the idea from Xerox :p).

It's nice for you to ignore the latest 60yrs of R&D in term of UI (which is fairly new since it was cmd line only until ~20 yrs ago).

I'm sure you can understand the difference between using a pen and your finger, mutlitouch vs monotouch pen and so on.

Community Regular

Salutary7

Posted
Posted

It's nice for you to ignore the latest 60yrs of R&D in term of UI (which is fairly new since it was cmd line only until ~20 yrs ago).

I'm sure you can understand the difference between using a pen and your finger, mutlitouch vs monotouch pen and so on.

Am I really ignoring the R&D? Well, I hate to have to bring up Jobs again, but I can't think of anyone more reputable when it comes to this problem.

?We?ve done tons of user testing on this,? Steve Jobs said in Wednesday?s press conference, ?and it turns out it doesn?t work. Touch surfaces don?t want to be vertical. It gives great demo, but after a short period of time you start to fatigue, and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off.?

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/gorilla-arm-multitouch/

I'm sure you can also understand that it doesn't matter whether its "a pen and your finger, mutlitouch vs monotouch pen and so on"--the ergonomics are virtually the same.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

While I don't think touch will ever take over the desktop, or rather workstation, since I don't think the desktop has many years left. Who says your future touch desktop has to be vertical? and pads and such suffer the same issue.

In any case metro works just as well with a mouse and keyboard anyway, and as I said, in some things even better.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Am I really ignoring the R&D? Well, I hate to have to bring up Jobs again, but I can't think of anyone more reputable when it comes to this problem.

http://www.wired.com...arm-multitouch/

I'm sure you can also understand that it doesn't matter whether its "a pen and your finger, mutlitouch vs monotouch pen and so on"--the ergonomics are virtually the same.

And again, to this I say, you should see how many users use their iPads as laptops. I have seen many, many iPad users use their ipads while they are sitting in a laptop like case or sitting on a table in an upright position.

Community Regular

Salutary7

Posted
Posted

And again, to this I say, you should see how many users use their iPads as laptops. I have seen many, many iPad users use their ipads while they are sitting in a laptop like case or sitting on a table in an upright position.

I haven't seen many, so I'll have to take your word for it. I have seen plenty of people giving explanations on why the iPad + keyboard is not sufficient for their productivity. Largely it's a pain for them to touch the screen when editing documents--where the trackpad of conventional laptops, for instance, would be much less impeding.

An iPad with a keyboard case is useful in a few situations, I'll give you that. But what of the shortcomings? Realistically you can't say that because some people try to use the iPad productively, it will become a new paradigm for the rest of computing.

Community Regular

Salutary7

Posted
Posted

While I don't think touch will ever take over the desktop, or rather workstation, since I don't think the desktop has many years left. Who says your future touch desktop has to be vertical? and pads and such suffer the same issue.

In any case metro works just as well with a mouse and keyboard anyway, and as I said, in some things even better.

Sure, it's very possible to imagine new ways to position screens and input devices on the desktop, but in practice it doesn't work. For productivity, screens will be vertical or nearly vertical. If you want to curl up on the couch and read or consume some other content, the iPad works better than a laptop. It all just comes back to ergonomics.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

I haven't seen many, so I'll have to take your word for it. I have seen plenty of people giving explanations on why the iPad + keyboard is not sufficient for their productivity. Largely it's a pain for them to touch the screen when editing documents--where the trackpad of conventional laptops, for instance, would be much less impeding.

I'd rathe touch the screen to move the cursor to the right place when editing a document than use a trackpad though.

Community Regular

Salutary7

Posted
Posted

I'd rathe touch the screen to move the cursor to the right place when editing a document than use a trackpad though.

Have you tried doing work like that though? If you have, and you like it, then I guess I can't argue. But research tends to indicate that after prolonged use, it simply won't be very comfortable anymore.

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