Windows 8, enough after about 2 hours

[~Johnny]

I'm pretty sure that Synaptics would have thought of that. And I'm also pretty sure that there was a mouse pointer visible on that screen in the video. Mapping trackpad gestures to touchscreen gestures doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of the mouse pointer.

Nope, no mouse pointer at all during that demonstration, also evident by the fact that every input he does - whether single or multitouch - is matched up on screen by WIndows' visual feedback for touch input (the grey circle), and not a mouse pointer, which means Windows recognises it as a touch screen, not a mouse.

There's also a few mistouches demonstrated in the video because of this disconnect, most notable during the Virtual Earth demo where he can't quite visualise where the buttons are meant to be in relation to the touch pad.

Whether or not they'll actually ship that remains to be seen, but it certainly probably won't be in the state it's shown in the video. At the very least possibly some sort of extra button that switches button mouse pointer or touch emulation is needed to make it useable, though it's a very nice experiment. Because in the end they haven't mapped gestures to a track pad, they've made the trackpad a touchscreen controller instead of a trackpad.

[Scorbing]

History repeating itself once again. This is another Windows ME.

[sopharine]

I was wondering if it is more intuitive to scroll vertically as opposed to horizontally as in Metro because traditional mouse users are more comfortable to scroll a web page in that way. I would add this to things that are good for tablet users but not for desktop users.

[bigmehdi]

History repeating itself once again. This is another Windows ME.

This gonna be worse than windows ME & Vista.

[chrisdoland]

Not Windows ME! This is faster and has more features than Windows 7. I hate Windows 7 start menu. I use Startmenu X 4.19 as my start menu and love it. It's only a matter of time before Microsoft or a third party developer get rid of Metro and give us what we have now in 7, choices. Ubuntu went Unity & people hate it. Third party Linux Mint listened and took it out. Your going to love Windows 8! Just be paitent and let others know Metro sucks but there alot of good changes as well.

[migo]

believe it or not, i spoke to MS rep who was part of Metro design team. he was saying the exact same thing. he was bemoaning the fact that Win8 team went WP7 team for their Metro ideas instead of XBOX team that the Metro design team wanted them to get their ideas from.

Julie Larson Green should be fired for messing up Win8 with the bland UI and superbad UX

That is a bit disappointing. I quite like the Xbox UI. If Windows 8 were more like that it would definitely help. Hell, I'd like Windows Phone to be a bit more like the Xbox UI.

[paulheu]

I would say this is the big, big problem with Windows 8, ...... However, things are simply not obvious enough and it will (and, based on responses on this forum right now, already has) cause a lot of frustration and alienate a lot of users

These forums are far from a benchmark for the average user who will simply adapt to the new scheme and not bother too much. The amount of overrating the importance of members of forums like these in the big picture is interesting to say the least..

[Digilodger]

This gonna be worse than windows ME & Vista.

I think you're probably exaggerated it a little too much. At least this time, Windows 8's backward compatibility is pretty good. Almost everything that worked under Windows 7 still work on Windows 8 without any need for additional drivers. This alone is already better than the Vista days. :)

========================

As for the metro UI, I disliked it at first. It's still incomplete and it's impossible to use Windows 8 in the metro UI only. We have to either go 100% desktop UI or constantly switch back-and-forth between the metro UI and desktop UI (which can get rather annoying).

But after the entire developer preview and almost a week after the consumer preview, I've finally adjusted to almost everything and actually find Windows 8 Consumer Preview stable and likable enough to use it as my main OS.

My main programs are Google Chrome Beta and metro IE10, Notepad++, FileZilla, Adobe Photoshop CS5.1, Microsoft Office 2010, Microsoft Visual Studio 6.0 (yeah, I know, ancient, but one of my classes requires it) and Visual Studio 2010, TeamViewer, Dropbox, and . . . Solitaire. All have been functioning fine under Windows 8 Consumer Preview.

I've been using the music app, mail app, calendar app, message app, and weather app, too. They're still a little quirky sometimes (especially the video app,sometimes when I start the video app, the message app starts instead; it doesn't make any sense), but good enough overall.

Anyway, my point is that give yourself sometimes to adjust and break old habits (also learn new keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures of Windows 8) and you might end up liking Metro--or at least hate it less. Now is a good time to experience the pain of our parents and grandparents when they have to deal with new technology (and we always make fun of them) :D

[Active.]

I disliked it at first. [...] likable enough [...] good enough [...] at least hate it less. Now is a good time to experience the pain [...]

I'm sorry for quoting this out of context, but I don't think this is the reaction Microsft are hoping for, or at least probably not one that helps you sell a new OS... :laugh:

[Som]

i just tested this with a group of people , some techie and some not. I gave them three tasks, Open Word, go back to the start screen and the shutdown the computer.

1. Computer Programmer .... took a minute to figure out they could just type word and find the application, figured straight away to press the start key to get back and then pressed the user picture to sign out and the shut the computer down. Overall she didn't like it

2 . IT Management .. same as the programmer, typed word and figured straight away to press the start key to get back Found the charm bar by mistake and figured how to shut down by selecting settings. Overall he didn't like it either

3. Facebook user ... couldn't figure out how to get work, took about 7 minutes to get to the start screen but figured out how to shutdown via the user picture. She hated it

4. Average Business user .... same as the programmer, typed word and figured straight away to press the start key to get back, got distracted by a game and gave up trying to shut it down haha. He didn't like it much, but didn't hate it either.

5. Average Android Phone user ... liked it

All these people wouldn't have been following windows 8 development , none of them tried to use keyboard shortcuts, all of them expected to able to just use the mouse and nothing else and seem frustrated that they couldn't ....

[Farchord]

Look, this winds down to everybody's experience of using their computers. Microsoft is trying to forcefeed us Metro, and unfortunately, most people won't stand for it.

Like I've been telling everyone, Windows should have two modes, which sets itself during setup, like Aero:

1- Touchscreen hardware found: Metro is enabled by default

2- No touchscreen hardware found: Metro is disabled by default, and reverts back to the classic start menu mechanisms.

Of course, there should be an option somewhere to turn this on or off.

If enough people tells Microsoft this, they have no choice to listen, or see another failed product on the shelves...

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Look, this winds down to everybody's experience of using their computers. Microsoft is trying to forcefeed us Metro, and unfortunately, most people won't stand for it.

No they are not forcing anything.

[Calum Veteran]

It's not JUST about start screen customization, FFS. It's about the whole UX. UI, or better, BOTH UIs are ugly and inconsistent. You have to switch constantly back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. Full screen metro apps look retarded on my 24" monitor.

I personally believe the Metro apps look beautiful on any size screen; the bigger the better.

Look, this winds down to everybody's experience of using their computers. Microsoft is trying to forcefeed us Metro, and unfortunately, most people won't stand for it.

Like I've been telling everyone, Windows should have two modes, which sets itself during setup, like Aero:

1- Touchscreen hardware found: Metro is enabled by default

2- No touchscreen hardware found: Metro is disabled by default, and reverts back to the classic start menu mechanisms.

Of course, there should be an option somewhere to turn this on or off.

If enough people tells Microsoft this, they have no choice to listen, or see another failed product on the shelves...

This would be a terrible decision by Microsoft because many of us love using the Metro experience on hardware that doesn't include a touchscreen and it works just as well on that hardware. If Microsoft disabled it by default, many "average users" wouldn't understand the benefits the Metro experience provides them over the old Start Menu and Desktop; they would believe Microsoft chose the experience it did for them because it's better for them, even though the Metro experience is actually better for them.

[Kratzie]

After a bit of customizing, I have it set out the way I want and it works for me, I honestly like the start screen. Sure there are some annoyances and I am hoping they will be gone when it rtm's. But at this stage, I see no reason why I wouldn't upgrade upon release.

[Southern Patriot]

Nope, no mouse pointer at all during that demonstration, also evident by the fact that every input he does - whether single or multitouch - is matched up on screen by WIndows' visual feedback for touch input (the grey circle), and not a mouse pointer, which means Windows recognises it as a touch screen, not a mouse.

There's also a few mistouches demonstrated in the video because of this disconnect, most notable during the Virtual Earth demo where he can't quite visualise where the buttons are meant to be in relation to the touch pad.

Whether or not they'll actually ship that remains to be seen, but it certainly probably won't be in the state it's shown in the video. At the very least possibly some sort of extra button that switches button mouse pointer or touch emulation is needed to make it useable, though it's a very nice experiment. Because in the end they haven't mapped gestures to a track pad, they've made the trackpad a touchscreen controller instead of a trackpad.

Yeah, I looked back over it and there isn't a pointer shown. It is, however, a first look at the software they are developing (from late last year, no less). It is already possible for a touchpad to recognize gestures, so mapping those to touchscreen gestures should be a relatively simple matter. And I'm sure they have some way of determining in software if you are on the start screen or the regular desktop, and switching the mode accordingly.

[Astrum]

Metro User Interface is not a revolutionary move on PC screen. It is meant to be simple, which is a good approach. But a computer remains a very sophisticated device and Metro UI on top of it feels overwhelming to me, because as a power user I don't mind multitude of controls and ... empty space on my desktop. Empty space on my desktop is inspiring, as it can be filled with anything. Empty space in Metro is not easy to fill.

[stockwiz]

I prefer navigating mostly by the mouse myself. The ones who say 'you're doing it wrong, all you have to do is type this and that' ... no sorry, I'm not going to do that. I want a simple icon on my desktop that I can double click to start that. And I miss the start menu. This is not a smart phone, and I'm not using a touch screen. I like navigating by mouse, and will continue to do so as a personal preference. Don't assume your preference of using the keyboard is the only 'right' one.

I don't really like the 'dumbed down' feel of the current metro interface but it's understandable. Like all consolized games that have been released these days or comparing the Original Fear with FEAR2, Crysis with Crysis 2, etc. same thing. Hand held through the entire process, everything simplified.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

It never occurred to me, but I wonder if a touchpad like Logitech's would be a perfect marriage with Windows 8? Much like the Magic Trackpad is for Lion.

[srprimeaux]

I liked it at first, but I just think I liked the idea of Microsoft doing something new. The implementation just doesn't work right for me. Notifications are something I really enjoy having. When I receive a Twiiter update, I like to know immediately so I can stay up-to-date. The same with email and IM messages. Thus far, I don't have this experience in Windows 8. The "People" App doesn't notify me when there's a new tweet or when someone messages me on Facebook. There's no notification that I've received a new email message. I have to back out of whatever experience I'm in to the Start Screen and check the live tile of the specific App to get the current status on it. That's a waste of time.

I'd love it if they'd implement system-wise notifications that performed similarly to when you install an App from the Marketplace. When it's finished installing, a notification alert appears in the upper right-corner of your screen. It would be nice if I could receive notifications like that no matter where I am in the OS.

But, then again, I am not a developer. Just a user throwing things out there. Maybe there's a reason they didn't do it like that.

[Petvas]

Microsoft needs to understand that the idea of using one OS for every device is simply wrong. The Metro interface might be good on a phone or tablet (personally I hate it everywhere but this is just me), but on a real desktop/laptop it is a complete disaster. Microsoft is risking a lot here and I don't see them winning. I prefer Apples approach. They understand how things should work. Microsoft is just in panic, confused...

[ShareShiz]

I used the DP as soon as it was released for about a week. Only went back to Win7 because I had some important work on it. But then about 2 weeks ago I installed DP as main OS on laptop. Now I have been running the CP for the last few days. Ive noticed there are some things missing that were on the DP. But each day I find something new on Windows 8 and love it. Especially the corners. But it is still a "beta" so there are some things missing and some things not working.

Overall Id give it a 8/10 .. mainly because it is more meant for touch. But once you learn how to use the mouse and some of the new features, the OS is really awesome.

People that don't like it. You simply don't have to upgrade. Hell there are still a lot of people using XP. I don't see Windows 8 as being a flop.

[Neo003]

I was really doubtful about this, but after using it for couple of hours I find it little easy on the eyes. You do have to get use to it using mouse as your finger and the whole touch interface thing. But overall it could be a great OS.

[br0adband]

I was really doubtful about this, but after using it for couple of hours I find it little easy on the eyes. You do have to get use to it using mouse as your finger and the whole touch interface thing. But overall it could be a great OS.

No, actually, you don't have to use the mouse as a "finger" in any respect, to be honest. There's no requirement to use the mouse in that respect although you can if you want since there's multiple ways to do most anything - that's the beauty of this sort of thing: multiple methods of accomplishing the same goals.

Want to close a Metro app?

1) Drag the app down from the top of the screen to the bottom. That's the "finger" way of doing it, but but but then there's...

2) Old trusty Alt+F4 which closes the currently focused app, and of course theres...

3) Put the cursor in the upper left hand corner and left-click once to switch focus to another app (the last one that had focus); as soon as that app takes focus, right click (while still in the corner) and you'll get the app you just switched from and the Close gadget. This is my preferred method to close apps now - I don't even use the X anymore in Windows 8, at all. And there's always...

4) Task Manager - highlight the app and right click, Close.

That's just one example. There are at least 3 ways of doing any given task in Windows 8 across the board. Charms?

1) Hover the upper right corner, slide the mouse down a touch, voila.

2) Hover the bottom right corner, slide the mouse up a touch, voila.

3) Win+C, voila.

and so on and so on.

Most people tend to be a) mouse-centric or b) keyboard-centric. I've been using Windows for decades now, since even before Windows 1.0 was public knowledge, and the one invariable thing that remains to this day is people can't stand change - it's true so I keep repeating it, constantly.

With all the new keyboard shortcuts that Windows 8 brings to the game, people really should learn to use some of them. If you never used any of them before, not even the ultimate Alt+Tab that rules pretty much above all others, perhaps it's time to toss off the shackles of doing stuff "the old way" and learn some new tricks.

When I end up being a tutor for people, it's fairly disheartening to find someone that says "has been using computers for years" and doesn't comprehend what drag-and-drop is, or something even more innocuous like copy-paste operations with Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. It's pretty sad, really, and whenever I spend time showing them a better, faster, and vastly more efficient way of doing things, invariably I end up getting "well I've been doing it like this for years, no sense changing now..." and at that point I promise myself I'll stop helping these closed minded ignorant people, but I end up doing it again anyway.

On top of people hating change, they seem to love being horribly inefficient with their chosen methodology in the first place.

It's lose-lose from the gitgo... :(

[techguy77]

No, actually, you don't have to use the mouse as a "finger" in any respect, to be honest. There's no requirement to use the mouse in that respect although you can if you want since there's multiple ways to do most anything - that's the beauty of this sort of thing: multiple methods of accomplishing the same goals.

Want to close a Metro app?

1) Drag the app down from the top of the screen to the bottom. That's the "finger" way of doing it, but but but then there's...

2) Old trusty Alt+F4 which closes the currently focused app, and of course theres...

3) Put the cursor in the upper left hand corner and left-click once to switch focus to another app (the last one that had focus); as soon as that app takes focus, right click (while still in the corner) and you'll get the app you just switched from and the Close gadget. This is my preferred method to close apps now - I don't even use the X anymore in Windows 8, at all. And there's always...

4) Task Manager - highlight the app and right click, Close.

That's just one example. There are at least 3 ways of doing any given task in Windows 8 across the board. Charms?

1) Hover the upper right corner, slide the mouse down a touch, voila.

2) Hover the bottom right corner, slide the mouse up a touch, voila.

3) Win+C, voila.

and so on and so on.

Most people tend to be a) mouse-centric or b) keyboard-centric. I've been using Windows for decades now, since even before Windows 1.0 was public knowledge, and the one invariable thing that remains to this day is people can't stand change - it's true so I keep repeating it, constantly.

With all the new keyboard shortcuts that Windows 8 brings to the game, people really should learn to use some of them. If you never used any of them before, not even the ultimate Alt+Tab that rules pretty much above all others, perhaps it's time to toss off the shackles of doing stuff "the old way" and learn some new tricks.

When I end up being a tutor for people, it's fairly disheartening to find someone that says "has been using computers for years" and doesn't comprehend what drag-and-drop is, or something even more innocuous like copy-paste operations with Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. It's pretty sad, really, and whenever I spend time showing them a better, faster, and vastly more efficient way of doing things, invariably I end up getting "well I've been doing it like this for years, no sense changing now..." and at that point I promise myself I'll stop helping these closed minded ignorant people, but I end up doing it again anyway.

On top of people hating change, they seem to love being horribly inefficient with their chosen methodology in the first place.

It's lose-lose from the gitgo... :(

This is not about hating a change it is about broken UI for Desktop. Most people 98% will never learn shortcuts therefore your argument fails. Just because you and me or someone else knows them, means nothing. People still don't know that even Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V exist. That is something which is not obvious for average Joe. Average Joe will be so confused about Windows 8 that they will most likely ask for downgrade when the buy new computer. It is not an accident that MS extended Windows 7 support to 2020. An examples you provided to close Application are rather laughable. Average Joe will never figure how to close Metro App, and what is even more funny it will be in suspended mode because of it which is not necessary a bad thing. I found that Alt + F4 is only way to close it with no problems, otherwise over the time you get carpet tunnel syndrom in your hands. :)

Drag and drop is not a natural movement with Mouse. Mouse is all about point and click which is the most efficient way of doing anything. Don't expect that people adapt to Drag and Drop since they did not for the past 25 years. It simply wont work.

Luckily Windows 8 wont live for long, so we will see what Windows 9 brings.

[Petvas]

There won't be a Windows 9. Microsoft is going to lose a lot of money with Windows 8...