windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[Denis W. Veteran]

Disregarding personal views of Microsoft's UI direction for a second: wow, could someone be so full of themselves...

Could've summed that entire thing up with one sentence: "suck it up, or shut up."

[Mike Frett]

Grow a pair eh. Yeah well I'll just all the fanboiz bend over and let MS shove it in deeper. I'm off to Mac or Linux, games is not a valid reason for Windows anymore.

[@Leo]

Come on, you want useful OS in 2012? What is this, 2009 or 2007 or 2001 or 1999 or 1997 or 1995? :rolleyes:

[Woelfel]

I wholeheartedly agree with him.

[Calum Veteran]

I'm so glad Paul Thurrott "gets" Windows 8. Unfortunately, it seems as if there aren't many of us around :/ The problem with many is that they're trying to use it as if it's Windows 7 (which Thurrott likewise notes). It's an entirely new concept and it's clear that many of these people haven't opened their minds enough to even try to understand that new concept properly. Even though the new concept is highly different, the capabilities of the operating system (fast app switching, for example) will probably allow them to be just as productive, but they won't even give it a chance to see whether that is the case.

I haven't been able to give Windows 8 the chance I should in order to be able to determine for sure that it won't negatively affect my productivity. I expect to be able to be at least as productive as I currently am with Windows 7, but I won't be able to accurately measure that until I've used Windows 8 for some time (maybe even a couple of months). No one will be able to accurately compare how productive they are when using Windows 8 to how productive they are when using Windows 7 until the following: 1) They've either become used to the new interface and app switching capabilities (whether they're using touch gestures, a hardware mouse, or keyboard shortcuts) or they've at least tried for some time to become used to them; 2) They've used Windows 8 daily for some time, as much as they tend use Windows 7 daily.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Yeah, they created yet another convoluted keyboard sequence, one that works the same in no previous version of Windows that I'm aware of, and is certainly NOT easily discoverable for something that literally takes two clicks of the mouse in Windows 7. As for his comment bashing those who shut down their computers, it seems that he isn't aware that running computers 24/7 is a huge waste of electricity (even if you allow them to go to sleep). Hibernate is even harder to get to than shutting down in this case.

Well, it could be easier. CTRL+ALT+DEL -> find shutdown somewhere -> shutdown! Works the same as Windows 7. ;) That said, an easy fix would be to include it in the user dropdown in the top right corner. People expect a logout link, since it uses the same convention as websites. (Like Neowin!) It would then be only natural to include a link for shutting down there, instead of stuffing it behind a settings button.

Also, Thurrott must've conveniently forgot the fact that Microsoft OPTIMIZED shutdown with a clever trick (hibernate kernel data, but terminate userlevel processes). Why would they optimize something if people won't use it?

[Mugwump00]

"The desktop is not the OS. It's an app"

Paul Thurrott

"existing desktop environment looks and works almost exactly like its predecessor". Err, that might be the main point there, Paul...

"What I'm saying is that Windows 8 will have a Start screen and a desktop. And that the desktop will still be the primary UI for people on desktop computers with large displays. Given that, why not bring some Metro goodness to the desktop? Was this really not obvious?"

Paul Thurrott - http://bit.ly/yH0MRT

Wow - are there 2 Paul Thurrotts, is he bi-polar, or just a jelly-spined fool who can't help playing the contrary Alpha-geek based on which way the Wind's blowing?

Buffoon.

[AJerman]

This my friends is a great example of a logical fallacy (Ad Hominem). The definition can be seen here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem Don't attack a person's character just because you don't agree with them. ;)

It's really quite the opposite. I don't know how long you've been around the scene, but most of us have been fed up with Paul Thurrott for years and years and years. It's not a judgement based off one article. And the worst part of this article IS his character and attitude in the writing, not the content. Basically he's going to say shut the hell up and deal with it, then later on tell you to give MS feedback. He speaks like someone who has no clue about how project management or public testing goes. The whole point of a CONSUMER PREVIEW is to get the opinion of consumers. This isn't a "beta". They aren't looking for quality bug reports from quality testers, or else they would have a tech beta program like they have had previously with individually selected testers who have proven previously to give good bug reports and feedback. All of what people are talking about is feedback. You would hope and assume that MS would pay attention to this, or else it's rather pointless to have a consumer preview. The negative responses people are giving are their feedback. If everyone just shuts the hell up and deals with it, they won't get any useful feedback to change things that people don't like. Paul, as usual, is polluting the Internet with his pointless ramblings that are even counter-productive to what I can only assume is Microsoft's aim.

Of course, that whole argument could be put in question when you wonder if MS really gives a damn this time around what people say. I almost DO think the consumer preview is pointless and only a show off of what they have done. The current UI design teams at MS don't really seem to care what anyone thinks, and I'm really starting to wonder if this is going to be the one that really hurts them. If they release this and it's widely rejected, far more so than even Vista was (as I see it happening), they could drive a LOT of their customers away to increasingly popular competing platforms. Macs are getting far more common these days, and even Linux is starting to shape up into a nice alternative more so than it ever has before. I'll keep an open mind until it's all done, and give it a decent run to form a real opinion, but this whole thing is looking like a train wreck right now. Windows 8 looks bad, Visual Studio 11 looks bad, Office 15 actually looks halfway decent, but there are parts that seem overly "Metrofied". Metro to me stands out as flat bland looking graphics, too much text all over the place, and cumbersome. It's halfway decent on a phone and probably a tablet, but on a desktop it just doesn't even begin to say "I'm the future of Windows".

[Guest glyfz]

It's really quite the opposite. I don't know how long you've been around the scene, but most of us have been fed up with Paul Thurrott for years and years and years. It's not a judgement based off one article. And the worst part of this article is his character and attitude in the writing, not the content. Basically he's going to say shut the hell up and deal with it, then later on tell you to give MS feedback. He speaks like someone who has no clue about how project management or public testing goes. The whole point of a CONSUMER PREVIEW is to get the opinion of consumers. This isn't a "beta". They aren't looking for quality bug reports from quality testers, or else they would have a tech beta program like they have previously with individually selected testers who have proven previously to give good bug reports and feedback. All of what people are talking about is feedback. You would hope and assume that MS would pay attention to this, or else it's rather pointless to have a consumer preview. The negative responses people are giving are their feedback. If everyone just shuts the hell up and deals with it, they won't get any useful feedback to change things that people don't like. Paul, as usual, is polluting the Internet with his pointless ramblings that are even counter-productive to what I can only assume is Microsoft's aim.

Of course, that whole argument could be put in question when you wonder if MS really gives a damn this time around what people say. I almost DO think the consumer preview is pointless and only a show off of what they have done. The current UI design teams at MS don't really seem to care what anyone thinks, and I'm really starting to wonder if this is going to be the one that really hurts them. If they release this and it's widely rejected, far more so than even Vista was (as I see it happening), they could drive a LOT of their customers away to increasingly popular competing platforms. Macs are getting far more common these days, and even Linux is starting to shape up into a nice alternative more so than it ever has before. I'll keep an open mind until it's all done, and give it a decent run to form a real opinion, but this whole thing is looking like a train wreck right now. Windows 8 looks bad, Visual Studio 11 looks bad, Office 15 actually looks halfway decent, but there are parts that seem overly "Metrofied". Metro to me stands out as flat bland looking graphics, too much text all over the place, and cumbersome. It's halfway decent on a phone and probably a tablet, but on a desktop it just doesn't even begin to say "I'm the future of Windows".

You're right, the Office UX team seem to be the only ones who know what they're doing these days.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I'm so glad Paul Thurrott "gets" Windows 8. Unfortunately, it seems as if there aren't many of us around :/

Sorry Captain Awesome that we aren't as clever as you to "get" Windows 8.

Windows 7 didn't work on Tablets and Touch devices because it was designed for a desktop, now to try and cut into that market they have gone to the extreme polar opposite and Windows 8 won't work on desktops.

Before you say "omg you can use it as a desktop its 'better'" without proof, the very fact that people like this asshat and lots of other people around the web are telling people to "get over it" is evidence enough that you don't use a touch oriented UI on a desktop computer, nor do people want it.

You and Paul should "get over it".

[xWhiplash]

"You are using Windows 8 like you would be using Windows 7"

So what this is saying, is that we cannot use Windows like we have been using them since Windows 95 now? I use Windows 7 the same as I use Windows 95 (besides the super bar and snap features).

[AJerman]

I'm so glad Paul Thurrott "gets" Windows 8. Unfortunately, it seems as if there aren't many of us around :/ The problem with many is that they're trying to use it as if it's Windows 7 (which Thurrott likewise notes). It's an entirely new concept and it's clear that many of these people haven't opened their minds enough to even try to understand that new concept properly. Even though the new concept is highly different, the capabilities of the operating system (fast app switching, for example) will probably allow them to be just as productive, but they won't even give it a chance to see whether that is the case. I haven't been able to give Windows 8 the chance I should in order to be able to determine for sure that it won't negatively affect my productivity. I expect to be able to be at least as productive as I currently am with Windows 7, but I won't be able to accurately measure that until I've used Windows 8 for some time (maybe even a couple of months). No one will be able to accurately compare how productive they are when using Windows 8 to how productive they are when using Windows 7 until the following: 1) They've either become used to the new interface and app switching capabilities (whether they're using touch gestures, a hardware mouse, or keyboard shortcuts) or they've at least tried for some time to become used to them; 2) They've used Windows 8 daily for some time, as much as they tend use Windows 7 daily.

How can you sit there and say that no one gets Windows 8 like you and Paul do, and then promptly say you haven't used it enough to get a good idea of it? A lot of people here are speaking from actually using the OS and seeing with their own eyes that it's garbage. People keep talking about how there are plenty of shortcut keys to do things fast for power users, but they fail to understand that these shortcuts already existed and were frequently easier and faster to use before. You're right, fast app switching is a perfect example. "No more need to use Alt-Tab anymore" they say. Now you can mouse over to the side of your screen and the icon pops up... but Alt-Tab is easier and faster, and always has been. It's not like I have to stand on my head to press Alt-Tab. It's a simple fluid motion that DOESN'T require me to pause what I'm doing, move my mouse, or anything like that. My fingers are on the keyboard already, Alt-Tab takes a split second to press, mousing to the side, waiting for the fast app switching thing to pop out, and clicking on an icon takes FAR longer and FAR more "work". So how things are going to allow me to be just as productive when they are still slower than before doesn't compute to me. At least they've left a lot of the old methods like this, but to make it sound like new methods are easier reminds me of those infomercials that make a simple task seem like the hardest thing in the world to do, just to show you how their product will make it easy for you again.

[Calum Veteran]

"You are using Windows 8 like you would be using Windows 7"

So what this is saying, is that we cannot use Windows like we have been using them since Windows 95 now? I use Windows 7 the same as I use Windows 95 (besides the super bar and snap features).

Yes, that is exactly what we're saying. Sometimes, for a major improvement to be made, a complete overhaul is required. For window management, Windows 8 should not be used in the same way people have been using Windows since Windows 95.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I might have taken him a bit more seriously if he he wasn't the author of "Windows secrete books". He is will now be making money off metro because of the fact there is now a lot more to put in a new book.

He told Leo on "Windows Weekly that he is writing the Windows 8 secrets book to.

[jimkraz]

Paul Thurrott is entitled to his opinion as much as I am or anyone else but it is up to each and every individual to make up their mind about whether Widows * is correct for them or not, Microsoft are not forcing anyone to use this or any other Windows operating system, if you prefer Windows 7, fine, stay with it for the moment, no one forced anyone to download and use this Consumer Preview, if you have and don't like it, then un-install it, easy peasy, I like it, my wife did not, so I installed it mine and left her with windows 7, if and when the time comes that Windows 7 is no longer available to use, and that's some time away, then she might have to use Windows 8, personally speaking, I am sixty three just now, if they are supporting Windows 7 till 2020, I may have forgotten how to do it, I may be dead, I may be alive but nearly dead, so to conclude, I downloaded it, I installed ti, I like it, if you have downloaded it and installed it, and did not like, well I am sorry, but you can still use Windows 7 with a clear mind knowing "you" are doing what you want and I as a individual am doing what I wan't. Jim

[ichi]

If people have to shut up about whatever they don't like in Windows8 then what's the freaking point in releasing a preview, just wait until RTM and tell people to suck it up with every flaw that might have been fixed thanks to users feedback.

I really don't get all that "stop criticizing Windows8", people can say whatever they want about whatever subject they want.

If you can't deal with that, tough luck.

Jeez, going by the way some people jump to defend Windows8 one would think people were mocking a gimp.

[Kelxin]

Most of the negative centers around the start screen changing the way people use Windows. I've found that once you get the hot corners its real easy

Upper left: App Switching/Selection

Lower Left: Start Screen

Upper Right: Charms Bar

I've had both technical and non technical friends try it and they love it. Just because the focus no longer centers on a start button doesn't make it an inferior windows. Sure the bundled apps need work but it has potential and it runs current software just fine. You can pin your folders (Documents, Pics), make groups and name them. Sure it requires a bit more initial setup than previous Windows but once it is, its beautiful. And just to add, I tend to snap metro apps to the right side of the screen while using the desktop on my 22" monitor just fine.

Yea, try to use those hot corners in a virtual machine such as Hyper-V then tell me how much you like them. They only work 10% of the time.

"Shutting down Windows 8 is easy, and that's true no matter which input type you use:

Keyboard.

WINKEY + I, UP ARROW, ENTER, U.

"

Yea, that works on a HOST machine, but not on a Hyper-V machine. How about looking at the same changes on a server or maybe actually use a computer in a business environment. The OS will DESTROY productivity. Yes, yes, change is good. 10% longer to do this, 15% for that, 5% for this. Now all of these businesses that waste an hour per employee per day that are trying to figure out how the **** to work their computers again. 12% reduced efficiency, 12% reduced income for a labor oriented computer labor company? How about we reduce your income by 12%, because change is good, right?

[giantpotato]

oh thank gawd its so much easier now... 4 actions now hidden under settings / power / shutdown compared to that old cumbersom method of start > shutdown....

what are you going to tell me next, that that its easier to use a shell command and type shutdown -f -s - t00 instead?

You forgot one thing, he's a Mac lover who drolls over windows because he knows he can make more money talking about it in the media... you see this guy out anywhere he has his macbook with him, not a windows laptop

You know what would be nice? Shutting down in a single action. Maybe even make it a hardware button. Maybe they could call it the 'power button' and devise some kind of standard where all computers are required to have this button. They could even have some options in windows to control what this button does if some people prefer hibernate/sleep over shutting down. Maybe they could even add a button to multimedia keyboards to support shutting down. /s

[Calum Veteran]

How can you sit there and say that no one gets Windows 8 like you and Paul do, and then promptly say you haven't used it enough to get a good idea of it? A lot of people here are speaking from actually using the OS and seeing with their own eyes that it's garbage. People keep talking about how there are plenty of shortcut keys to do things fast for power users, but they fail to understand that these shortcuts already existed and were frequently easier and faster to use before. You're right, fast app switching is a perfect example. "No more need to use Alt-Tab anymore" they say. Now you can mouse over to the side of your screen and the icon pops up... but Alt-Tab is easier and faster, and always has been. It's not like I have to stand on my head to press Alt-Tab. It's a simple fluid motion that DOESN'T require me to pause what I'm doing, move my mouse, or anything like that. My fingers are on the keyboard already, Alt-Tab takes a split second to press, mousing to the side, waiting for the fast app switching thing to pop out, and clicking on an icon takes FAR longer and FAR more "work". So how things are going to allow me to be just as productive when they are still slower than before doesn't compute to me. At least they've left a lot of the old methods like this, but to make it sound like new methods are easier reminds me of those infomercials that make a simple task seem like the hardest thing in the world to do, just to show you how their product will make it easy for you again.

I didn't say "no one" gets it like Paul Thurrott and I do; I said "many" don't.

I said many people do not "get" the new concept because they don't. Me "getting" the new concept has nothing to do with what I said about me not being able to give it a good use. I said I haven't been able to completely measure my level of productivity when using Windows 8 compared to my level of productivity when using Windows 7; however, I certainly "get" the new Windows 8 concept.

Even if I find that I'm more productive with Windows 7 (which I doubt will happen, but it might), I will still "get" the new Windows 8 concept.

I stand firm with my belief that none of you have had time to be able to accurately measure how productive you are with Windows 8 compared to how productive you are with Windows 7, especially as most of those complaining have inadvertently pointed out that they're having trouble adjusting to having only two apps on one screen at once. Less than one week is not enough time for any of those people to know for sure whether they'll ever get used to that.

[Guest glyfz]

If people have to shut up about whatever they don't like in Windows8 then what's the freaking point in releasing a preview, just wait until RTM and tell people to suck it up with every flaw that might have been fixed thanks to users feedback.

I really don't get all that "stop criticizing Windows8", people can say whatever they want about whatever subject they want.

If you can't deal with that, tough luck.

Jeez, going by the way some people jump to defend Windows8 one would think people were mocking a gimp.

It's exactly the same with OSX with the Apple can do no wrong, how dare you criticize crowd.

[Guest xiphi]

This guy is delusional. He was one of the few who complained about 7's taskbar and other things, and swore MS should have left the labels on by default in the taskbar. Even went as far to write an entire article just on the difference between simple and easy. It was around that time I stopped going to his site, because he had lost "it" by then.

[Stoffel]

How can you all call Thurrott biased, when all of you haters jump on any article from anybody who bashes Win8 and take that as truth.

But when somebody defends Win8 the person is biased and on MS's payroll.

How can you take yourself serious??? Doesn't matter if you like Paul or not, you got to see how silly this is getting.

And yes, you shouldn't use Win8 the exact same way is you used Win7

You are going to adjust just like we had to do when we all moved from Win 3.11 to Win 95, but I guess a lot of people here never had to make that jump.

[Kelxin]

You know what would be nice? Shutting down in a single action. Maybe even make it a hardware button. Maybe they could call it the 'power button' and devise some kind of standard where all computers are required to have this button. They could even have some options in windows to control what this button does if some people prefer hibernate/sleep over shutting down. Maybe they could even add a button to multimedia keyboards to support shutting down. /s

Or maybe try using a server in a controlled environment that physical access to a computer is limited for obvious reasons.

GD short sighted morons.

How can you all call Thurrott biased, when all of you haters jump on any article from anybody who bashes Win8 and take that as truth.

But when somebody defends Win8 the person is biased and on MS's payroll.

How can you take yourself serious??? Doesn't matter if you like Paul or not, you got to see how silly this is getting.

And yes, you shouldn't use Win8 the exact same way is you used Win7

You are going to adjust just like we had to do when we all moved from Win 3.11 to Win 95, but I guess a lot of people here never had to make that jump.

If someone likes something, no big deal.

When someone tells everyone else to stop bitching. Then they must be on someone's pay roll, or wait, lemme guess, we're all just "holding it wrong" ? right?

Let me be a little more clear. My main evaluation of Windows 8 was on the server side, not the client side. They did ALL THE SAME **** TO THE SEVERS TOO.

[freak180]

AllI care about at the moment! They want to make things simple. Use comon sense and add the shutdown and restart to the user menu. If you can signout and lock the computer from that menu, why not shutdown or restart it as well! Why seperate this ??

[+Warwagon MVC]

AllI care about at the moment! They want to make things simple. Use comon sense and add the shutdown and restart to the user menu. If you can signout and lock the computer from that menu, why not shutdown or restart it as well! Why seperate this ??

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!!!! It's useful, productive and it makes sense!!!!! Thus it has no business being in Windows 8!!!!! :rofl:

lemme guess you don't work at Microsoft do you?