windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[Kazriko]

Also, the original comment of "The Desktop is an App" is accurate for other operating systems, and even for this one for the most part. But it's not completely a metro app. Try running windows 8 on a system with two monitors. You'll find that you can close the desktop on the primary monitor just like a metro app, but it will remain on the secondary monitor and continue running. I think it's running even when you close it with one monitor too, but they're just trying to hide that.

Actually, to me that may be metro's one saving grace. I could setup 3 or 4 monitors on my system, and metro would only consume one of them at most while the rest could be dedicated to the "old" way of using the system. Unfortunately, that also means that metro-only apps will not be usable on the other 3 monitors until someone makes a run-in-window mod...

[Dot Matrix]

Techguy, I have to ask why it is you're making a fuss over Event Viewer. Average Joe doesn't use that. That's a power tool to help diagnose system problems.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Time to grow up people, no benefit of whining about: I am used to that and I am used to this, I have been using since, blah blah blah.

New Time. New Year. New Windows.

Who the hell do you think you are telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing, I'm getting VERY tired of the smug superior attitude the Metro apologists have against people who don't like Metro.

If I'm paying nearly ?100 for a new OS I should be able to use it however the hell I want to use it, I'm not telling you that you can't use Metro so stop telling me I have to put up with it or stick with Windows 7.

If people don't complain then Microsoft doesn't know about our concerns, having only positive comments doesn't help Microsoft refine the OS into something that is a happy medium for everyone.

[赛博朋克]

The thing of it is, he doesn't even accidentally trigger the corner hotspots. With him wandering all over the place in a 4 minute video, he should have triggered something to appear on screen just by accident. If he was searching for the start button, natural reaction would have been to move the cursor to the bottom of the screen regardless.

Yeah sure, why don't we all just flick our mice around the screen and press random keys and hope we'll trigger something? I don't have a problem with finding hidden corners and stuff like that (but I really hate the way MS implemented metro on a desktop). But my mother, just like that man in the movie, would. It took me quite a long time to teach her how to use a computer (but even now, she still calls me regularly) and I don't want to go through all that again.

[Stoffel]

Windows 8 -> Click Metro Start Menu, type Event Viewer and nothing will be found unless you do additional click to Settings. Event Viewer cannot be pinned to Taskbar.

Windows 7 -> Start Menu, Type, Run or Right Click on it to pin to Taskbar

Here is one Windows 8 case scenario. OS is a ****ing failure UI wise.

Right click in the left corner, select event viewer

Much faster. Stop whining

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Right click in the left corner, select event viewer

Much faster. Stop whining

Nailed it (Y) lol

[bjoswald]

<snipped>, he has a point: All the whining in the world won't change Microsoft's opinion about Windows' new direction. Put up or shut up! It's not like there's no other alternatives.

Edited March 9, 2012 by lcg

[Stoffel]

So now the complaints move from It's unusable, to the average Joe will not understand it.

How nice of all of you to think about the average user.

Didn't they all manage to learn how to use a Kindle or an iPad? People have always adapted and they will again.

It's not that much of a change from Win7 once you know. And of course MS is going to include some kind of tutorial with Win8

Maybe even a screen overlay when you press a certain key combination so you see all the hotspots on the screen.

After reading here it seems to me it still comes down to resisting change

[jamesclarke555]

Right click in the left corner, select event viewer

Much faster. Stop whining

I must admit, I love that power menu :yes:

[techguy77]

Right click in the left corner, select event viewer

Much faster. Stop whining

I was giving you Search Scenario. I know about left corner and not so obvious to Average Joe but guess you don't get it.

[pack34]

I was giving you Search Scenario. I know about left corner and not so obvious to Average Joe but guess you don't get it.

Holy crap. Why would your average user need to dive into event viewer, device manager, or even the control panel? All they care about is finding that app they want to use. If on the off chance they want settings there's the settings button right there on the screen that filters the search down to settings. For the "power users" they have a key combo to go directly to the settings search.

EDIT:// If you look at the "power user" menu you have links to Task manager, run, device manger, disk management, computer management, command prompt. The average joe will most likely never have to use any of these.

[Guest xiphi]

It's amazing how many of you are overlooking the real problems. It's not searching for Event Viewer or Shutting down that's the problem. The real problem is the process to accomplish those tasks. Open your mind and realize that not every PC user is as knowledgeable about Windows as you are.

[MorganX]

The thing of it is, he doesn't even accidentally trigger the corner hotspots. With him wandering all over the place in a 4 minute video, he should have triggered something to appear on screen just by accident. If he was searching for the start button, natural reaction would have been to move the cursor to the bottom of the screen regardless.

Not defending the video, it's probably scripted (though not far from reality for most I fear) but who the hell would accidentally trigger and extreme corner hotspot, ever, except by accident when goign to the corner of an app? That's sorta why they're buriend in the corners.

[jamesclarke555]

So now the complaints move from It's unusable, to the average Joe will not understand it.

How nice of all of you to think about the average user.

Didn't they all manage to learn how to use a Kindle or an iPad? People have always adapted and they will again.

It's not that much of a change from Win7 once you know. And of course MS is going to include some kind of tutorial with Win8

Maybe even a screen overlay when you press a certain key combination so you see all the hotspots on the screen.

After reading here it seems to me it still comes down to resisting change

Have you ever worked in support? Sounds like you haven't, here's a scenario for you; we had a user here with a corrupt profile, after repairing it, we got a phone call about 5 minutes later, which went something like this:

User: I have no programs installed.

Me: Open the Start Menu and have a look in All Programs, do you see anything now?

User: What's the Start Menu?

Me: Click on the button in the bottom left hand corner.

User: Oh, I see... (Pauses for 30 seconds) no, there's nothing there.

Me: Facepalm.

I ended up going down there and she was just looking in her recent programs list, which of course was empty because we had reset her profile, she acted like she'd never seen the All Programs section before.

That's just one example, but there are many users here that can't even use Windows 7 proficiently. There's a lady that can't even copy and paste and has to come and see me with a memory stick everytime she wants to work form home and it doesn't matter how many times you show these people, it just doesn't sink in. My parents are not much better, especially my mum, who has to refer to my written instructions on how to transfer pictures off her camera to the PC every single time she does it.

I think if we rolled out the CP in its current state to all computers here, we'd get that many support calls, I'd probably strangle myself to death with the phone cord.

[pack34]

It's amazing how many of you are overlooking the real problems. It's not searching for Event Viewer or Shutting down that's the problem. The real problem is the process to accomplish those tasks. Open your mind and realize that not every PC user is as knowledgeable about Windows as you are.

Isn't that the point of windows 8? To provide a simpler interface that anyone can use while still having a desktop style for those that need it. For the average person (that needs no special programs in the desktop) should really never leave metro. When you load it for the first time you're confronted with large tiles that do what most people use a computer for: messaging, email and internet. Of course there will be an introductory video that'll show what they changed and how the corners work. If you dumped someone onto the classic desktop for the first time they would have no idea how to use that either without explanation.

[Guest xiphi]

My issue with the hotspots is that they interfere with the workflow. I like to maximize some of my apps, and many times have I accidently triggered the Charms when I go to close said app. That should NEVER happen. No UI element should interfere with the UX, and a UI element that's used on a daily basis should never be hidden. The UX should feel and look natural.

[Guest]

Just figured out a quick way to view all apps on the start screen via the keyboard.

Hit any character at all and then hit esc.

It will display all apps.

Not exactly intuitive but it's faster than using charms.

[pack34]

My issue with the hotspots is that they interfere with the workflow. I like to maximize some of my apps, and many times have I accidently triggered the Charms when I go to close said app. That should NEVER happen. No UI element should interfere with the UX, and a UI element that's used on a daily basis should never be hidden. The UX should feel and look natural.

I call FUD. Full screen a window and slam your cursor to the top right and click. It will close the window. At this point the charms are just an overlay and quickly disappear. They in no way interfere with closing a window.

[Guest xiphi]

I call FUD. Full screen a window and slam your cursor to the top right and click. It will close the window. At this point the charms are just an overlay and quickly disappear. They in no way interfere with closing a window.

It's called bad UI design.

[pack34]

It's called bad UI design.

It's also called not interfering with your workflow as you originally claimed.

[Guest xiphi]

It's also called not interfering with your workflow as you originally claimed.

How is triggering the Charms while closing a maximized not considered interfering with the workflow? I don't expect anything else to happen beyond closing an app. I pause every time those damn Charms popup. It's jarring, and should not EVER happen. It's a bad UX.

[pack34]

How is triggering the Charms while closing a maximized not considered interfering with the workflow? I don't expect anything else to happen beyond closing an app. I pause every time those damn Charms popup. It's jarring, and should not EVER happen. It's a bad UX.

Because it doesn't do anything! It in no way shape or form prevents you from clicking to close the window. You do not have to back off or try again, you click as normal. No charm is activated and nothing is happening that would interfere with your workflow.

[Guest xiphi]

*bangs his head on his desk*

What part of that is a good UX? None! One action should not trigger two! These things should not be accidental in any way!

[pack34]

*bangs his head on his desk*

What part of that is a good UX? None! One action should not trigger two! These things should not be accidental in any way!

How does that interfere with your workflow! It does not prevent you from closing windows in anyway!

*bangs head on desk*

You don't like how it looks. I get that. But please stop making up **** like "breaking your workflow". it simply doesn't. It's like claiming the rotating backgrounds breaks your workflow because something visually changes that has no affect on what your doing because it happens automatically and is "jarring".

Windows 8 uses hot corners. The left side is for apps and the right is the system. It's consistent in that every corner will show a preview of what that edge does when you hit the corner.

[MorganX]

I call FUD. Full screen a window and slam your cursor to the top right and click. It will close the window. At this point the charms are just an overlay and quickly disappear. They in no way interfere with closing a window.

1) he shouldn't have to slam anything

2) it is very easy to trigger the charm bar or start/prev app thumbnails by going to any corner for any reason other to trigger them

It's not FUD, it's real. And yes, it would break your workflow if going to the right corner to close is part of it.

One of the first things many many people have done for years with monitor, gpu, and mouse software if "disable" hotspots which have typically been in corners, for that reason. To me, hot "corners" is a step backwards. Auto-hiding taskbar was just about right for me.