windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[neo1911]

What a trolling article by a Microsoft poster boy!

[Southern Patriot]

By your logic, we'd all still be using terminals connected in various ways to mainframes.

How exactly is that different from the cloud concepts that many companies (including Microsoft) are trying to push lately? Hell, the majority of what people do on the internet fits that description.

[Ryster]

Paul Thurrott is an arrogant prick who has been sucking Microsoft's **** for a decade or more. Why am I not surprised that he would continue to do so?

So by "is an arrogant prick" you really mean "doesn't agree with me". Right?

[simplezz]

And as I write up front in my Windows books, maybe it's time I establish my expectations. For you.

Yes, I'm going on a rant here. And, yes, this time it's personal.

All I needed to know :D

So this guy, who writes Windows help books, feels butthurt when he's working on his next book entitled "Mastering Window 8's Metro?", and some "upstart" Windows users get critical of the beta (CP), which said book writer is relying upon for the foundation of his book. He sees critics possibly impacting his book's sales if Windows 8 gets a bad reputation. So he feels a need to refute the claims with an arrogant and authoritarian tone so that no one dares question their master again.

That about right? I could be totally wrong here, but this guy sounds like he's doing damage control to protect his vested interests.

[Active.]

Apple is indeed merging iOS and the OS X user base [...] What's more obvious is that Tim Cook (Apple's CEO) doesn't care. He'll be quite happy growing the iDevice market - even at the expense of the OS X market

That's the thing though. If either the iDevice market or the OS X market grows, Apple wins. So I don't see the incentive of dumbing OS X down to the level of iOS. That would just be redundant. The problem is, that Microsoft absolutely does mind if users buy an iPad instead of a Windows PC, and so, since they've not been successful in the tablet market yet, they're trying to get an in by jumpstarting Metro via the Desktop user base.

[Kelxin]

So by "is an arrogant prick" you really mean "doesn't agree with me". Right?

Actually, no I think he meant. "He is an ARROGANT PRICK".

Which I'd agree with after reading tons of his articles and meeting him in person.

[Southern Patriot]

So by "is an arrogant prick" you really mean "doesn't agree with me". Right?

When someone says "Now use it, deal with it, and figure it out.", I'd consider them an arrogant prick. And that is exactly what Paul is saying here.

[neo1911]

How hard is it to take your mouse to bottom right of screen and bring up the charms bar?

Oh please ffs, I use 2nd monitor as extended display and whenever I try to bring up the charms bar, the mouse pointer moves over to the extended display and I fail to bring it up.

What a terrible idea the charms bar is turning out to be!

[Phouchg]

This should be Windows 8's motto. :laugh:

[Ryster]

If people have to shut up about whatever they don't like in Windows8 then what's the freaking point in releasing a preview, just wait until RTM and tell people to suck it up with every flaw that might have been fixed thanks to users feedback.

I really don't get all that "stop criticizing Windows8", people can say whatever they want about whatever subject they want.

If you can't deal with that, tough luck.

Jeez, going by the way some people jump to defend Windows8 one would think people were mocking a gimp.

The point of the preview is to use and provide feedback on what has been offered, NOT to try and turn it into Windows 7.

Whining that it's different to Windows 7 is pointless. It's supposed to be. Don't like the new direction that Windows 8 has gone in? Then don't buy it.

[winlonghorn]

When you have to support Windows 2k, XP, Vista, windows 7, Server 2k, 2k3, 2k8, and 2k8 R2 all of which have the same basic navigation and a new OS comes in that says "screw it, you have to learn everything from scratch" ... No, I won't be deploying or supporting it except to remove it from every computer I come across forcibly.

lol If you came across my PC with it installed, I guarantee that you would NOT be removing it from mine! Good luck trying that one! ;)

[+Warwagon MVC]

Haters and Lovers of Metro 8 both have a better chance of being "Turned" by going down on a zombie on her period!

[jakem1]

Well it looks like this thread has failed :(

The same old change-averse people who've been trolling all the other Windows 8 threads now have ad hominem attacks to add to their pathetically tiny array of insults. We get it, you can't use Windows without a start button and you only like things that you're familiar with. If you have nothing useful to add then don't bother posting.

[AJerman]

How hard is it to take your mouse to bottom right of screen and bring up the charms bar?

Oh please ffs, I use 2nd monitor as extended display and whenever I try to bring up the charms bar, the mouse pointer moves over to the extended display and I fail to bring it up.

What a terrible idea the charms bar is turning out to be!

Well, maybe I can try to help you on that one a little, but really only if the screen resolutions are different I think. Speaking from prior versions of Windows, you can go into the display properties and move your second screen so it doesn't line up directly with a corner of your first screen, that way you can flick into the corner without going onto the second screen. I've always used that trick to help keep my cursor on the right desktop. See if you can do that in Win 8.

[PGHammer]

That's fine with me. They can design it for whatever they want. I'm not against something that works fantastically for tomorrow's hardware. But if they release it for older desktops, I'd certainly like to see the interface that works best for the so called past and not just put this interface for everything and see what happens.That's what a no-compromise release is.

Your opinion that the new UI is unsuitable for desktops is just that - yours. There are users (including myself among the Neowinians) that disagree with you, and we're running the Consumer Preview on desktops and notebooks (a lot without touch interfaces at all). Some of us - including me - are running it as the SOLE operating system.

Windows 8 Consumer Preview breaks the paradigm in more ways than just the wildly different (and surprisingly not) user interface.

1. The StartScreen replaced the Start menu and has been separated from the desktop. (This has been repeated over and over, and not just by Sinofsky and Ballmer - why is it that the detractors have conveniently skipped over this?)

2. Backward-compatibility - This is also the most backward-compatible beta operating system (let alone version of Windows) I have *ever* experienced. (In fact, the one traditional application I had issues with - Amazon Kindle e-reader software - is now working as it should; I have no idea what caused it to self-repair.) The fact remains that there are no longer *any* issues I have with traditional (as in non-WinRT) applications.

3. The now-a-separate-application desktop still works the same way it did in Windows 7. You can still have shortcuts on your desktop. You still have Taskbar pinning. The TaskTray (and popout Charm bar) are just as usable on desktops as they are with any other formfactor.

4. The lower left corner (where the Start Orb used to be) hides until you hover your pointer over it. (In short, it's not sitting there calling your attention to it.) When you unhide it, left-clicking launches the Start screen. Right-clicking it brings up something similar, and yet quite different, from right-clicking Windows 7's Start menu - QuickTask. QuickTask unhides all the details and tricks that used to be one level lower in right-clicking the Start menu in Windows 7, and includes several features that the Windows 7 Start menu just plain lacked, such as a separate elevated-privilege Command Prompt. Also, QuickTask can be extended (one extension I'm actually expecting is one for PowerShell - the cross-Windows scriptable shell that is used primarily by server versions of Windows, though it's quite usable with desktop versions as far back as Windows XP).

In short, despite the radically different user interface, I'm finding Windows 8, even in Consumer Preview form, a major step up in terms of usability from Windows 7 - even on desktops.

*That* is, in fact, why Windows 7 has been demoted to VM duty.

That's fine with me. They can design it for whatever they want. I'm not against something that works fantastically for tomorrow's hardware. But if they release it for older desktops, I'd certainly like to see the interface that works best for the so called past and not just put this interface for everything and see what happens.That's what a no-compromise release is.

Your opinion that the new UI is unsuitable for desktops is just that - yours. There are users (including myself among the Neowinians) that disagree with you, and we're running the Consumer Preview on desktops and notebooks (a lot without touch interfaces at all). Some of us - including me - are running it as the SOLE operating system.

Windows 8 Consumer Preview breaks the paradigm in more ways than just the wildly different (and surprisingly not) user interface.

1. The StartScreen replaced the Start menu and has been separated from the desktop. (This has been repeated over and over, and not just by Sinofsky and Ballmer - why is it that the detractors have conveniently skipped over this?)

2. Backward-compatibility - This is also the most backward-compatible beta operating system (let alone version of Windows) I have *ever* experienced. (In fact, the one traditional application I had issues with - Amazon Kindle e-reader software - is now working as it should; I have no idea what caused it to self-repair.) The fact remains that there are no longer *any* issues I have with traditional (as in non-WinRT) applications.

3. The now-a-separate-application desktop still works the same way it did in Windows 7. You can still have shortcuts on your desktop. You still have Taskbar pinning. The TaskTray (and popout Charm bar) are just as usable on desktops as they are with any other formfactor.

4. The lower left corner (where the Start Orb used to be) hides until you hover your pointer over it. (In short, it's not sitting there calling your attention to it.) When you unhide it, left-clicking launches the Start screen. Right-clicking it brings up something similar, and yet quite different, from right-clicking Windows 7's Start menu - QuickTask. QuickTask unhides all the details and tricks that used to be one level lower in right-clicking the Start menu in Windows 7, and includes several features that the Windows 7 Start menu just plain lacked, such as a separate elevated-privilege Command Prompt. Also, QuickTask can be extended (one extension I'm actually expecting is one for PowerShell - the cross-Windows scriptable shell that is used primarily by server versions of Windows, though it's quite usable with desktop versions as far back as Windows XP).

In short, despite the radically different user interface, I'm finding Windows 8, even in Consumer Preview form, a major step up in terms of usability from Windows 7 - even on desktops.

*That* is, in fact, why Windows 7 has been demoted to VM duty.

[lameb]

the thing abt windows 8 is that i see no benefit from upgrading. The app store has nothing useful, apps are inconsistent, they crash, metro ie doe not even support flash, the media player sucks.... it jut seem like win 8 is better for like playing angry birds and looking kind of nice but when it comes to doing something like photoshop or ...real work, it goes to the desktop. and the desktop has many advantages when it come to managing files or working. you can drag stuff onto a window, etc its just more vesatile. if windows 8 meas the nearing of the desktop ui, i think thats a bad idea. and btw i use media center everyday to watch and record tv and watch videos, its a great program and i hope it wot be discontinued. im aware the cp does not represent the final product, so i hope ms will polish it, make it more intuitive, more useful, etc. at this point i dont see why anyone would pick a win8 device over an ipad , android tablet, which is what is sort of deasigned for. i dont see why anyone would pick a win8 pc over a win7 one.

[AJerman]

Your opinion that the new UI is unsuitable for desktops is just that - yours. There are users (including myself among the Neowinians) that disagree with you, and we're running the Consumer Preview on desktops and notebooks (a lot without touch interfaces at all). Some of us - including me - are running it as the SOLE operating system. Windows 8 Consumer Preview breaks the paradigm in more ways than just the wildly different (and surprisingly not) user interface. 1. The StartScreen replaced the Start menu and has been separated from the desktop. (This has been repeated over and over, and not just by Sinofsky and Ballmer - why is it that the detractors have conveniently skipped over this?) 2. Backward-compatibility - This is also the most backward-compatible beta operating system (let alone version of Windows) I have *ever* experienced. (In fact, the one traditional application I had issues with - Amazon Kindle e-reader software - is now working as it should; I have no idea what caused it to self-repair.) The fact remains that there are no longer *any* issues I have with traditional (as in non-WinRT) applications. 3. The now-a-separate-application desktop still works the same way it did in Windows 7. You can still have shortcuts on your desktop. You still have Taskbar pinning. The TaskTray (and popout Charm bar) are just as usable on desktops as they are with any other formfactor. 4. The lower left corner (where the Start Orb used to be) hides until you hover your pointer over it. (In short, it's not sitting there calling your attention to it.) When you unhide it, left-clicking launches the Start screen. Right-clicking it brings up something similar, and yet quite different, from right-clicking Windows 7's Start menu - QuickTask. QuickTask unhides all the details and tricks that used to be one level lower in right-clicking the Start menu in Windows 7, and includes several features that the Windows 7 Start menu just plain lacked, such as a separate elevated-privilege Command Prompt. Also, QuickTask can be extended (one extension I'm actually expecting is one for PowerShell - the cross-Windows scriptable shell that is used primarily by server versions of Windows, though it's quite usable with desktop versions as far back as Windows XP). In short, despite the radically different user interface, I'm finding Windows 8, even in Consumer Preview form, a major step up in terms of usability from Windows 7 - even on desktops. *That* is, in fact, why Windows 7 has been demoted to VM duty.

Okay, I challenge you. Tell me one thing that is easier/faster/more productive on Windows 8 than any previous version.

[BajiRav]

Sounds like he's a little too butthurt that people aren't drooling over Win 8.

After reading that blurb, I'd have to say that he's quite an ignorant as*hole. People aren't complaining like crazy for no reason. Plain and simple, it was stupid to make such drastic changes and completely overhaul the Windows we're come to learn over the past 20 years. Microsoft doesn't always know what's right. The users and developers determine that, and we can all see where their standpoint is thus far...

Nice personal attack, was it because lack of any intelligent response?

Couple extra clicks??!! Try to use the hot spots on a virtual machine in Hyper-V!

And again, your brain is not looking at the big picture. If you had ONE server, no big deal. I take care of over 400 servers on a daily basis. I probably reboot a server 10 - 30 times a DAY between all the different machines I work on and that doesn't include all of the virtual servers.

Or. How about the initial setup and deploying of server, installing drivers, installing software, registry and policy changes... Reboot, reboot, reboot.

If you use Hyper-V, why do you care about the OS UI to shut it down?

Well it looks like this thread has failed :(

The same old change-averse people who've been trolling all the other Windows 8 threads now have ad hominem attacks to add to their pathetically tiny array of insults. We get it, you can't use Windows without a start button and you only like things that you're familiar with. If you have nothing useful to add then don't bother posting.

Honestly, I was hoping a better thread but knew it would come down to this. Most are ideal customers for "who moved my cheese". :/

[Muhammad Farrukh]

I love two things about this thread.

• The article (Y)
  
• The prefix tag (Y) (Y) (Y) :rofl: :rofl:
  

[Kelxin]

Don't like the new direction that Windows 8 has gone in? Then don't buy it.

Yes, that'd work except all of the OEMs that include it as part of the package. It only took 6 months before every manufacturer in the WORLD would not offer a machine without vista. It only took 8 months until HP developed laptops that DISABLED the installation of Windows XP and FORCED windows vista through bios settings and driver incompatibilities. They used a proprietary AHCI hard drive controller chipset that there was no XP driver for period on a laptop. Can't replace the controller, can't change it to IDE in the bios until 6 months later after all of the complaints FORCED HP to release an updated bios for it to allow it back to IDE mode. I see this whole thing coming again where the market is going to have to FORCE Microsoft to shove this OS up its arse.

[winlonghorn]

Okay, I challenge you. Tell me one thing that is easier/faster/more productive on Windows 8 than any previous version.

I have one. :) Disk Management now takes two clicks to get to versus four! Right click in the lower left corner, click "Disk Management" versus, click "start", right click "computer", click "Manage", click "Disk Management" :)

[neufuse Veteran]

Well it looks like this thread has failed :(

The same old change-averse people who've been trolling all the other Windows 8 threads now have ad hominem attacks to add to their pathetically tiny array of insults. We get it, you can't use Windows without a start button and you only like things that you're familiar with. If you have nothing useful to add then don't bother posting.

just because something is "change" and "newer" doesn't meant it's better... most of us are open for change, if the change works good... there is just to many flaws to this new way of thinking right now..... one of the biggest ones is the action areas of the screen are so darn small like the start one that is just about 5 pixel wide and high area on the bottom left... yeah that works GREAT on multi monitors where that corner might not be the furthest corner of the screen... and making the aero peak box do multiple unrelated things now is just odd

[Kelxin]

If you use Hyper-V, why do you care about the OS UI to shut it down?

If I'm working within the UI I find it inconvenient to LEAVE the UI to go to the Hyper-V manager panel to shutdown a machine, especially when I need to reboot a machine and the only options that Hyper-V offers along those means is to do a HARD reset possibly corrupting the servers data, or doing a soft shutdown, waiting for it to shut down, then powering it back up. Personally I tend to gravitate towards efficiency. You may not, but eh, each to their own.

[PGHammer]

Okay, I challenge you. Tell me one thing that is easier/faster/more productive on Windows 8 than any previous version.

You missed point four - QuickTask. It includes all the stuff that was one level lower when right-clicking the Windows 7 Start menu, and it includes a *separate* Command Prompt for stuff that requires elevated priviledges. In short, something borrowed from the old Start menu, and a lot easier to get to and use, with more features besides.

The issue with the Consumer Preview is not application compatibility (which I addressed in both points two and three), but users used to doing things the same way for nigh on two decades.

[Ilgauskas]

Your opinion that the new UI is unsuitable for desktops is just that - yours. There are users (including myself among the Neowinians) that disagree with you, and we're running the Consumer Preview on desktops and notebooks (a lot without touch interfaces at all). Some of us - including me - are running it as the SOLE operating system.

Windows 8 Consumer Preview breaks the paradigm in more ways than just the wildly different (and surprisingly not) user interface.

1. The StartScreen replaced the Start menu and has been separated from the desktop. (This has been repeated over and over, and not just by Sinofsky and Ballmer - why is it that the detractors have conveniently skipped over this?)

2. Backward-compatibility - This is also the most backward-compatible beta operating system (let alone version of Windows) I have *ever* experienced. (In fact, the one traditional application I had issues with - Amazon Kindle e-reader software - is now working as it should; I have no idea what caused it to self-repair.) The fact remains that there are no longer *any* issues I have with traditional (as in non-WinRT) applications.

3. The now-a-separate-application desktop still works the same way it did in Windows 7. You can still have shortcuts on your desktop. You still have Taskbar pinning. The TaskTray (and popout Charm bar) are just as usable on desktops as they are with any other formfactor.

4. The lower left corner (where the Start Orb used to be) hides until you hover your pointer over it. (In short, it's not sitting there calling your attention to it.) When you unhide it, left-clicking launches the Start screen. Right-clicking it brings up something similar, and yet quite different, from right-clicking Windows 7's Start menu - QuickTask. QuickTask unhides all the details and tricks that used to be one level lower in right-clicking the Start menu in Windows 7, and includes several features that the Windows 7 Start menu just plain lacked, such as a separate elevated-privilege Command Prompt. Also, QuickTask can be extended (one extension I'm actually expecting is one for PowerShell - the cross-Windows scriptable shell that is used primarily by server versions of Windows, though it's quite usable with desktop versions as far back as Windows XP).

In short, despite the radically different user interface, I'm finding Windows 8, even in Consumer Preview form, a major step up in terms of usability from Windows 7 - even on desktops.

*That* is, in fact, why Windows 7 has been demoted to VM duty.

Ok, it's mine and I'm not telling that my opinion is superior to yours or anything. My point is that those who DO NOT LIKE IT, they don't do that for the sake of it. Personally, my workflow doesn't in any way or fashion work with a current start menu. I'm trying to adapt, but I doubt I will. My different workflow doesn't allow anyone else to claim, that I, as a user should shut up and claim that Windows 8 is a godsend and so on. It's my opinion. Learn to respect it, that's all I'm asking. I know that despite my different views, you didn't attack me personally and I'm grateful for that.

Now back to the topic, my point is, that I'd certainly like some kind of switch that would make the interface more Windows 7 like (just for the under-the-hood improvements, because they speed up OS quite well). I'm not asking desktop to be made as a default option. I'd like a secret option in control panel, registry or anywhere else. I dislike that MS is taking away that option, because I'm using MY computer, the way I want. Before you say, that I'm a minority, reading about this and seeing the outrage, I could only say, that there are many more people who feel it this way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking to stop the innovation - I'm asking for more tolerance to different workflows from MS side.