windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[JaredFrost]

That's a shame, I thought this was going to be a call for common sense, it's just another Metro propoganda post about shutting up and liking it.

I've used Windows 8 CP since it came out, I am trying to like it, and I do, but not Metro

Yes, The charm bar and hotspots are easy, but they're no good, unintuitive and I don't want them on my desktop, I wouldn't even pirate this OS, let alone purchase it.

[MorganX]

i wonder what will MS do after being @ say beta , while getting so much negative response. I think it would be better if they release it on tablets first and then work for Desktops , just to stay at safe side..

One of the things they will do apparently, is update the software for the Microsoft Touch Mouse for Windows 8. If they can create a simple gesture to swipe an entire screen up/down/left/right it will make metro more viable on the desktop. The problem isn't that Metro sucks, it's great. I love my Windows Phone. It's just non-productive on a desktop with a keyboard+mouse. Only someone who doesn't actually do much work can't realize that immediately. I guess there's a lot of Gamers here and shills and not a lot of information workers. Unfortunately, the MS Touch mouse has some sensitivity issues with thumb swipes and is heavy as hell. Hopefully IHVs will provide lighter and more accurate alternatives. Full screen apps isn't going to cut it either. I like browsing the web in portrait myself, there's just a lot of issues.

I can't wait to get a Win 8 Tablet though. As long as it is as light as the iPad with typical x86 expandability.

[AJerman]

...ok. That "stfu" was not warranted but whatever, do as you like. I don't agree with your approach as it would require even more support than what was discussed earlier...it would literally be 2 OS' than just one OS with an app inside of it.

I don't really think so. How different would it be to the way Windows Media Center works now? I think it should work EXACTLY like Windows Media Center. If you build a system as a Media Center, you've got it, you can put it in startup and it will start into it, just like you could do with the metro start screen. If your system isn't a media center (read touchscreen in talking about the metro start screen), then the option is there to use it if desired, or ignore it if it's unnecessary. I think this makes the most logical common sense.

[Kelxin]

What's going to happen if everyone hates W8, is Microsoft is going to bring in a group of people and show them something code named "Touchmetherebabyohya", then when people say they like it, Microsoft will say "You were just using Windows 8"

I bet history will indeed repeat itself. I feel sorry for the phone support people though even further complicating the issue of "what os are you on?"

Ok. Several have asked, this is what I personally think would be the best (and long winded) explanation of what the perfect outcome would be.

Windows 8 Home Basic - Cheapest OS setup specifically for older computers - Windows 7 UI only

Windows 8 Home Premium - Standard OEM OS Shipped with most computers - Windows 7 UI only

Windows 8 Tablet - Standard OEM OS shipped with all tablets - Tiles only

Windows 8 Media Center - Upgrade OS shipped on media centers and available through anytime upgrade or retail - Tiles Default, changable to Windows 7 UI - Has all multimedia bells and whistles

Windows 8 Mobile - Upgrade OS for tablets - Tiles default, changable to windows 7 UI

Windows 8 Professional - Upgrade OS for PC's - Windows 7 UI Default, changable to Tiles - has all home / business bells and whistles

Windows 8 Enterprise - Business VLK OS for PC's - Windows 7 UI Default, changable to Tiles - has all business bells and whistles

Windows 8 Ultimate - Upgrade OS for PC's - Tiles default, changable to Windows 7 UI - has all bells and whistles

[MorganX]

What's going to happen if everyone hates W8, is Microsoft is going to bring in a group of people and show them something code named "Touchmetherebabyohya", then when people say they like it, Microsoft will say "You were just using Windows 8"

If everyone hates Windows 8, the same thing will happen as it did when everyone hated Vista. Only it will be much worse for Microsoft. I have a feeling a lot will change before they RTM. It better. Slapping metro on top of a crippled Explorer has a cheap feel to it. Windows 8 without Metro (Server) will Rock. Metro without Explorer (Windows Phone, Tablets) will Rock, together, just feels cheap.

[Ice_Blue]

Well it looks like this thread has failed :(

The same old change-averse people who've been trolling all the other Windows 8 threads now have ad hominem attacks to add to their pathetically tiny array of insults. We get it, you can't use Windows without a start button and you only like things that you're familiar with. If you have nothing useful to add then don't bother posting.

Amen

[Dot Matrix]

I will not say that you can not run Windows 8. I will not say that it will not doing everything that you could possibly want in a computer. What I will say, is if you do go with Windows 8, I will not be installing it, I will not connect it to ANY server in your business directly or indirectly, I will not troubleshoot ANY application compatibility problems with it, and to the point, the most that I will do with it is help you get rid of it when you're done destroying your productivity and ready to come back to getting work done.

You will if your boss tells you too, or a client requests it.

[giantpotato]

I bet history will indeed repeat itself. I feel sorry for the phone support people though even further complicating the issue of "what os are you on?"

Ok. Several have asked, this is what I personally think would be the best (and long winded) explanation of what the perfect outcome would be.

Windows 8 Home Basic - Cheapest OS setup specifically for older computers - Windows 7 UI only

Windows 8 Home Premium - Standard OEM OS Shipped with most computers - Windows 7 UI only

Windows 8 Tablet - Standard OEM OS shipped with all tablets - Tiles only

Windows 8 Media Center - Upgrade OS shipped on media centers and available through anytime upgrade or retail - Tiles Default, changable to Windows 7 UI - Has all multimedia bells and whistles

Windows 8 Mobile - Upgrade OS for tablets - Tiles default, changable to windows 7 UI

Windows 8 Professional - Upgrade OS for PC's - Windows 7 UI Default, changable to Tiles - has all home / business bells and whistles

Windows 8 Enterprise - Business VLK OS for PC's - Windows 7 UI Default, changable to Tiles - has all business bells and whistles

Windows 8 Ultimate - Upgrade OS for PC's - Tiles default, changable to Windows 7 UI - has all bells and whistles

If there's one thing windows doesn't need, it's more SKU's.

Client Support: What version of windows are you using?

Client: Windows 8.

Client Support: But what version of Windows 8?

Client: Windows 8 Home

Client Support: What edition of Windows 8 Home?...

[+Warwagon MVC]

If there's one thing windows doesn't need, it's more SKU's.

Client Support: What version of windows are you using?

Client: Windows 8.

Client Support: But what version of Windows 8?

Client: Windows 8 Home

Client Support: What edition of Windows 8 Home?...

LOL they wouldn't even know they were using Windows 8 home. Hell you'd be lucky if they knew they were using Windows 8. I had a support call last week that I started wtih asking him which version of windows he was running. I gave him the list. he said Windows 7. So I get logged in and it's a 6 year old computer running windows xp

[Woelfel]

I don't really think so. How different would it be to the way Windows Media Center works now? I think it should work EXACTLY like Windows Media Center. If you build a system as a Media Center, you've got it, you can put it in startup and it will start into it, just like you could do with the metro start screen. If your system isn't a media center (read touchscreen in talking about the metro start screen), then the option is there to use it if desired, or ignore it if it's unnecessary. I think this makes the most logical common sense.

But I believe the user wasn't talking about just the Metro Start Screen, he's talking about still having the start menu, either start in Start Screen or go desktop (of course someone can make a utility to do this) but the desktop would still have Start Menu. That menu requires support for that, thus supporting 2 ways of doing the same thing (that's the only reason why I said OS')

[Kelxin]

You will if your boss tells you too, or a client requests it.

Actually, no. I don't have a boss, and I've fired clients for less. Thanks.

[giantpotato]

LOL they wouldn't even know they were using Windows 8 home. Hell you'd be lucky if they knew they were using Windows 8. I had a support call last week that I started wtih asking him which version of windows he was running. I gave him the list. he said Windows 7. So I get logged in and it's a 6 year old computer running windows xp

I can top that. In high school I would fix people's PC's. Asked the person what version of windows they were running. Their reply: Windows 97 :huh:

I go on site, turns out their son replaced the windows 95 bootscreen with a custom windows 97 one. :rofl:

[+Warwagon MVC]

I can top that. In high school I would fix people's PC's. Asked the person what version of windows they were running. Their reply: Windows 97 :huh:

I go on site, turns out their son replaced the windows 95 bootscreen with a custom windows 97 one. :rofl:

Well then they weren't lying were they! Hell you should have given them some kind of award just for remembering what the boot screen says as the computer started up. :rofl:

[Kelxin]

If there's one thing windows doesn't need, it's more SKU's.

Client Support: What version of windows are you using?

Client: Windows 8.

Client Support: But what version of Windows 8?

Client: Windows 8 Home

Client Support: What edition of Windows 8 Home?...

That wouldn't be any additonal sku's ... just renaming them

http://www. << spam >> .com/tutorials/14422-compare-windows-7-editions.html

^^^ They really filter this??? HA omfg... Seven forums . com

6 OS's there, plus a tablet OS and a phone OS. There's your 8 os's, just with better names and functional uses.

[Ice_Blue]

This is what I have, and will continue telling my clients:

I will not say that you can not run Windows 8. I will not say that it will not doing everything that you could possibly want in a computer. What I will say, is if you do go with Windows 8, I will not be installing it, I will not connect it to ANY server in your business directly or indirectly, I will not troubleshoot ANY application compatibility problems with it, and to the point, the most that I will do with it is help you get rid of it when you're done destroying your productivity and ready to come back to getting work done.

You have practically paraphrased Thurott.

And you call HIM an arrogant p....?

[Kelxin]

You have practically paraphrased Thurott.

And you call HIM an arrogant p....?

No, he says, use it, like it and shut up. I say, do what you want, you can tell me ALLLL about it. I just wont do a thing to help you. =-p

[winlonghorn]

Actually, I'd have to say the Outlook gadget works quite nicely for my e-mail (and refreshes every 30 seconds), weather.com's app works quite well, and I love my pandora app. Of course, keep in mind, I am talking about the evolved Windows 7 gadgets, not the crap implementation that was in Vista, and since you don't seem to know, all of those gadgets have full access to all of the same programming capabilities of the new tiles and MORE. Hell, the pandora app uses FLASH to play its music, from my understanding that functionality will be disabled in Windows 8 tiles.

Gadgets do NOT have access to full core Windows functionality as far as I understand it. Weren't they sandboxed and didn't it require a hack to build them with WPF? Tiles can be built with any portion of .NET with little to no problem. They can also communicate with each other (where gadgets couldn't) as far as I can remember. :)

[Woelfel]

No, he says, use it, like it and shut up. I say, do what you want, you can tell me ALLLL about it. I just wont do a thing to help you. =-p

No.

He says use or don't use it. If you use it, deal with it.

You say use or it don't use it. If you use it, deal with it.

[remixedcat]

I can sum up the article from Thurrot in one sentence: You WILL like this or else!

Seems to me that his attitude is, basically, that if we don't like it, too bad. YOU WILL COMPLY!

doo eet or ballmer might get angry and start sweating and stinking again and we don't want that....

[赛博朋克]

I can top that. In high school I would fix people's PC's. Asked the person what version of windows they were running. Their reply: Windows 97 :huh:

I go on site, turns out their son replaced the windows 95 bootscreen with a custom windows 97 one. :rofl:

I LOL'd :D

[winlonghorn]

The start screen is large and resource heavy, meaning wherever that line in system speed is where the start screen doesn't open instantly like the start menu does, everyone below that line will be waiting for the start screen to load just to launch and app, this is a BIG factor as waiting for a giant full screen start screen to load would be considered entirely unacceptable when the start menu was instant on basically every computer.

You are kidding right?!? :s The Start Screen is not resource heavy at all! Any tiny delay might be due to a bug in the animation that plays when you bring it on screen (and or debugging code due to it being a beta). You honestly think that they are going to make it a resource hog when they intend this to run on phones and tablets as well? One problem with that theory! They created this type of UI with Wndows Phone (on low end phone hardware) and it runs like a dream. What makes you think Windows 8 would be different in that area?

[AJerman]

You are kidding right?!? :s The Start Screen is not resource heavy at all! Any tiny delay might be due to a bug in the animation that plays when you bring it on screen (and or debugging code due to it being a beta). You honestly think that they are going to make it a resource hog when they intend this to run on phones and tablets as well? One problem with that theory! They created this type of UI with Wndows Phone (on low end phone hardware) and it runs like a dream. What makes you think Windows 8 would be different in that area?

You don't think a full screen menu filled with icons won't take a second to load on an older system? Especially if you have Live Tiles on it. How about a system with poor graphic support. There are a lot of systems out there that are built as workstations that don't have a video card capable of drawing lots of graphics like that quickly. That's something you may take for granted, but go work in a corporate environment and you'll come across it more often than you'd think. I can tell you from first hand experience that it can be slow. I'm not saying it's a resource hog, I'm saying it's resource heavy compared to a standard start menu, and if it's not optional, you don't even have the ability to turn it off on a system where it's unnecessary and just adds delay. This may not sound like a lot, but compare it to complaints about taking 2 extra clicks to shut down. As people arguing have said, you shut down maybe a couple times a day at most. You open the start menu countless times a day though. Any delay AT ALL added by opening a pointlessly flamboyant start screen is unacceptable.

[Brian Veteran]

Who the hell says the start menu paradigm is the correct one -- you don't see people sloughing OS X because it doesn't have a start menu... Use what you're going to use and stop with your whining. It's absolutely ridiculous that some of you vocal idiots are so resistant to change... I've been using it and it doesn't add any more time to your workflow -- it's just changing it.

You folk are the same people who stymied the introduction of the car and every other technological change. And it's you vocal idiots who are going to ruin the experience as unfortunately the vocal minority always seems to push their agenda.

I like the change, it won't be any harder to support -- it's WAY more bodily intuitive. It feels natural and also feels like how you would interact with something.

To the dude with the 46 inch TV... It doesn't take you any longer with your mouse to mouse over the 46" TV than it would over a 100ft screen of the same resolution or my 15.4" monitor..... So stop with your TV excuse. It's lame. Resolution is resolution. As if they let you support users, you also don't have even the simplest grasp on support.... Calling Calum and Thurrot arrogant -- you just finished saying you WOULDN'T do your JOB unless you have your own way.

[winlonghorn]

You don't think a full screen menu filled with icons won't take a second to load on an older system? Especially if you have Live Tiles on it. How about a system with poor graphic support. There are a lot of systems out there that are built as workstations that don't have a video card capable of drawing lots of graphics like that quickly. That's something you may take for granted, but go work in a corporate environment and you'll come across it more often than you'd think. I can tell you from first hand experience that it can be slow. I'm not saying it's a resource hog, I'm saying it's resource heavy compared to a standard start menu, and if it's not optional, you don't even have the ability to turn it off on a system where it's unnecessary and just adds delay. This may not sound like a lot, but compare it to complaints about taking 2 extra clicks to shut down. As people arguing have said, you shut down maybe a couple times a day at most. You open the start menu countless times a day though. Any delay AT ALL added by opening a pointlessly flamboyant start screen is unacceptable.

If it is capable of running well and being snappy on a tablet/phone, why would it be delayed on an old graphics card? The content updates occur asynchronously in the background. :) Even leo laporte has shown it off running on a very low end system and performing fluidly btw. :)

[clarkgable]

I think this is a fantastic article from Paul Thurrott. It's a preview for a reason; some people write on here complaining about apps that are incomplete in functionality. Very silly. The one thing I would disagree with is the metro-style explorer. I thought that looked good. But in any case, I already know based on what I have seen that I will be upgrading to Windows 8 from 7 as soon as it is out.