Boz Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Quote Apple's efforts to "dissolve the Senate" by giving itself more votes on the European Union's phone standard board -- the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) -- than all the other players combined has stalled thanks to a protest filed by Canada's Research in Motion, Ltd. (TSE:RIM). Over the last few days we have observed a number of representatives from one company changing their affiliation over night and registering to the meeting not representing their employer or any of theiraffiliates but representing a completely different company. ... As a consequence, we kindly ask that neither shall a person of one company who is appointed to carrythe votes of another company be entitled to cast a vote on behalf of that company, nor shall a personof one company who is registered in the place of a person from another company and appointed tocast a vote on behalf of that other company, be allowed to cast a vote on behalf of that company. RIM, as many others, are fearful of Apple's bid to assert control of EU phone standards, both by registering its subsidiaries as independent voting members and by applying financial pressure to EU telecoms to join its quest to consolidate power. But it's hardly alone. While RIM took the lead in filing the challenge to Apple's recent moves, it's just one of several top phonemakers who have spoken out against Apple's plans. The move would look to put the American phonemaker in a peachier position financially, while leaving customers with an inferior design, and killing the democratic nature of the EU standards board. Nokia, Motorola, and RIM clearly were not happy with Apple's efforts to push this cruder design for its own financial fortune. While it might seem that three phonemakers' opinion would trump that of one, Apple looked to exploit a loophole in the standards organization's rules, registering six of its subsidiaries as independent companies, in an effort to appoint itself dictator of the board and give itself more votes than the other members combined. Allegedly several telecoms -- including Bell Mobility, SK Telekom Ltd. (FRA:KMB) and KT Corp. ADR (FRA:KTC) -- also agreed to assist Apple in its power grab. Potential reasons for their collaboration include an effort to win favor with the phonemaker and retain/win access to its popular iPhone. Also carriers reportedly liked Apple's less open, more traditional design that closed the route to reprogrammable SIM cards. And they are absolutely correct. Apple is trying to swing the votes by registering it's own representatives with other companies that have the vote: Quote Over the last few days we have observed a number of representatives from one company changing their affiliation over night and registering to the meeting not representing their employer or any of their affiliates but representing a completely different company. Examples (as of 18:04 CET on 28/03/12) are: - Jason Adams from Apple (UK) Ltd registered as Bell Mobility - Dieter Volbert from Vodafone D2 GmbH registered as Telekom Austria AG - Gavin Clark from Apple (UK) Ltd registered as KT Corp. - Vinash Khausal from Apple (UK) Ltd registered as SK Telekom http://www.scribd.com/doc/87080143/No-Voting-by-Proxy-During-a-Technical-Body-Meeting Busted in their scumbag tactics dr_crabman 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Their sim card looks easy to use, whats the best one? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputwarrior Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 apple will even make this royalty free too... i don't see the big deal. smaller sim card, same functions, better for devices that are trying to get smaller and thinner. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:42, Vice said: Their sim card looks easy to use, whats the best one? They are all easy to use. Apple's design is inferior and requires additional support for the sim card, a process they patented. Thus that's why they want it pushed through, because they would make money that way. Quote the design Apple put forth did not satisfy the standards committee -- the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) -- requirements in terms of form factor. In addition the gadget maker's design was so crude that it needed a special protective plastic tray to prevent it from snapping -- a design which Apple patented Nokia, Motorola, and RIM clearly were not happy with Apple's efforts to push this cruder design for its own financial fortune. But there is more issue here at stake Quote Aside from the SIM issue, if Apple succeeds in its goal of taking control of the EU's standards board, it could essentially win a free license to dictate financially destructive standards on its Windows Phone and Android rivals. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 That seems **** if it will snap without some special guard. And if it doesn't meet the specifications then it shouldn't even need to be voted on. I heard that it is being postponed 30 days to listen to RIM. Hope this gets sorted. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputwarrior Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:47, Boz said: They are all easy to use. Apple's design is inferior and requires additional support for the sim card, a process they patented. Thus that's why they want it pushed through, because they would make money that way. But there is more issue here at stake why do you lie? where is the benefit in it? you do it all the time. I don't get it. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gibs Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Quote As a consequence, we kindly ask that neither shall a person of one company who is appointed to carrythe votes of another company be entitled to cast a vote on behalf of that company, nor shall a person of one company who is registered in the place of a person from another company and appointed tocast a vote on behalf of that other company, be allowed to cast a vote on behalf of that company. My mind is blown. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:45, rajputwarrior said: apple will even make this royalty free too... i don't see the big deal. smaller sim card, same functions, better for devices that are trying to get smaller and thinner. And no.. that's not entirely correct. It's a dirty scumbag tactics again.. Here's what this "royalty-free" means for Apple. Quote Apple, however, seized on this as an opportunity to hijack the process with its own patented standard, which it would only offer to competitors "for free" and Nokia if they scrapped existing royalty agreements for patents Apple currently licenses. So in other words they would only give it away for free to those who exempt Apple from paying all other royalties and patents. Which is not such a great thing. It's basically blackmail. KayMan2K 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:42, Vice said: Their sim card looks easy to use, whats the best one? The Apple SIM card does not fulfill all of the requirements set by the ETSI, thus it should be disuqalified from the get tgo. it's also a bad physical design that could get stuck in the phone, and would therefore require a tray. defeating the very purpose of smaller sim card to start with and limiting design choices, especially for companies that want to offer the legally required removable batteries and behind the batteries placement of sim cards. dr_crabman and FMH 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:50, rajputwarrior said: why do you lie? where is the benefit in it? you do it all the time. I don't get it. I don't lie.. I just don't believe nonsense that you believe so easily and actually do more research before mouthing my opinions. My post previous is the non-biased translation of quote: Quote "Apple's letter has removed this roadblock, if it ever was any, through an unequivocal commitment to grant royalty-free licenses to any Apple patents essential to nano-SIM, provided that Apple's proposal is adopted as a standard and that all other patent holders accept the same terms in accordance with the principle of reciprocity." Quit buying into F. Mueller's pro-Apple, pro-Oracle, anti-Google, anti-open source rhetoric. Apple is not offering free licensing. It is offering "free" (note the quotes) licensing IF Nokia, RIM, et al. drop existing license fees regarding standard patents they developed. Thus there's nothing really free about Apple's standard, as it means Apple.money++; Nokia.money--; Motorola.money--;... And considering it's peddling a clearly inferior design and trying to subvert the democratic process of the standards board, there's little justification. It just shows them as scumbags they are and always have been only people don't want to see it. Scamming, bribing and trying to kill any competition and standards for their own profits. 123456789A and dr_crabman 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I really wish we could get rid of sim cards altogether Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:23, Rudy said: I really wish we could get rid of sim cards altogether Apple wanted that, and a lot of the telecoms wanted that as well. Since that gives them a hard lock between them and your phone instead of them and your easy transferrale sim card. WHY would you want to get rid of sim cards, it makes a lot of things harder. 123456789A, Coolicer, +virtorio and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gibs Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:23, Rudy said: I really wish we could get rid of sim cards altogether Go use CDMA then? SIM cards means that I can easily swap them out when I travel, or switch cellular companies. I would prefer not to be locked into one or have to pay outrageous roaming fees. MightyJordan, 123456789A and +virtorio 3 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:33, HawkMan said: Apple wanted that, and a lot of the telecoms wanted that as well. Since that gives them a hard lock between them and your phone instead of them and your easy transferrale sim card. WHY would you want to get rid of sim cards, it makes a lot of things harder. On 30/03/2012 at 18:36, Razorfolds said: Go use CDMA then? SIM cards means that I can easily swap them out when I travel, or switch cellular companies. I would prefer not to be locked into one or have to pay outrageous roaming fees. When I said get rid of sim cards I didn't mean to lock the phone completely. Accounts with different providers should be done using username / password or something so you can easily swap without having to remove a piece of hardware (different "profiles" on your phone and you decide which one is active) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gibs Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:45, Rudy said: When I said get rid of sim cards I didn't mean to lock the phone completely. Accounts with different providers should be done using username / password or something so you can easily swap without having to remove a piece of hardware (different "profiles" on your phone and you decide which one is active) But then what's stopping carriers from just going to the OEMs and being like well I want you to completely disable that so nobody can change it (without a new ROM or something)? OEMs need carrier approvals, especially in North America, before they can sell their products (which is why you have like 5 different versions of the same phone, Galaxy S2 for example). So if an OEM didn't do that then the carrier can just say well **** you we aren't going to sell your phone. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputwarrior Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:55, Boz said: I don't lie.. I just don't believe nonsense that you believe so easily and actually do more research before mouthing my opinions. My post previous is the non-biased translation of quote: Quit buying into F. Mueller's pro-Apple, pro-Oracle, anti-Google, anti-open source rhetoric. Apple is not offering free licensing. It is offering "free" (note the quotes) licensing IF Nokia, RIM, et al. drop existing license fees regarding standard patents they developed. Thus there's nothing really free about Apple's standard, as it means Apple.money++; Nokia.money--; Motorola.money--;... And considering it's peddling a clearly inferior design and trying to subvert the democratic process of the standards board, there's little justification. It just shows them as scumbags they are and always have been only people don't want to see it. Scamming, bribing and trying to kill any competition and standards for their own profits. so i bring up an article that couunters what you say and you dissuade it cause you don't agree with it. stay classy bro. and mister open source sure has a hardon for a closed products (flash) but bashes html5 (completely open). you are awesome. MightyJordan 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:47, Boz said: Thus that's why they want it pushed through, because they would make money that way. someone should educate Boz about what "royalty-free" means. MightyJordan and shockz 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
efjay Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Even if their design was better, which is arguable, trying to rig the voting system by appointing their own reps disguised as other companie's reps is unethical, and should be illegal. How can such a company be within spitting distance of holding such power over millions of consumers and numerous hardware makers for their own financial benefit? Truly an evil company and shocking that they could theoretically control such a fundamental feature of devices that are becoming increasingly important to hundreds of millions of people. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Star Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:23, Rudy said: I really wish we could get rid of sim cards altogether NO! I hate how Sprint does not use them. It makes changing phones SO much harder than it should be. :( Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell-In-A-Handbasket Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:55, rippleman said: someone should educate Boz about what "royalty-free" means. He would just ignore it, and come back saying you are just suporting something he doesn't like ( regardless of if you actually don't support it ) just so in his mind he can think your wrong, and his lala land is right Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakem1 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 18:55, rippleman said: someone should educate Boz about what "royalty-free" means. Perhaps you should have read his other posts before criticising him. As there are strings attached to the offer you can't really consider it to be free at all. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell-In-A-Handbasket Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 19:44, jakem1 said: Perhaps you should have read his other posts before criticising him. As there are strings attached to the offer you can't really consider it to be free at all. The thing is Boz is stating that Apple is only giving it out for free as long as companies give them free use of other things, which isn't true apple is only requesting people allow Apple to use the same sim design for Free. Aka they don't get sued because company B was given the license. ( Example is MS/Linux lawsuits as MS lisenced patents for some Linux stuff ) ala " reciprocate agreement " that was mentioned in the articles. There is nothing anywhere stating for example that say HTC can use the Sim if they allow apple to use HTC's design on a button. As Boz is stating. It's ONLY for the sim, but somehow Boz thinks otherwise * edit and I don't think he has ever posted a sorce from a reputable news site, it's always the backwater Fox News like Tech Sites. Nothing major or highly recognizable that I can remember Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 19:44, jakem1 said: Perhaps you should have read his other posts before criticising him. As there are strings attached to the offer you can't really consider it to be free at all. What does his other posts have to do with the sim chip (that is what the story was about in fact) being "royalty-free"? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 19:51, Hell-In-A-Handbasket said: The thing is Boz is stating that Apple is only giving it out for free as long as companies give them free use of other things, which isn't true apple is only requesting people allow Apple to use the same sim design for Free. Aka they don't get sued because company B was given the license. ( Example is MS/Linux lawsuits as MS lisenced patents for some Linux stuff ) ala " reciprocate agreement " that was mentioned in the articles. Nope. it's not innocent as that. You are interpreting what they are saying in your own mind. This is from them as reported by FOSS patents well known Pro-Apple, anti-Google shill. Quote A perfectly reliable source that I can't disclose has shown me a letter dated March 19, 2012 that a senior Apple lawyer sent to ETSI. The letter addresses the primary concern of critics of the proposal. The FT said that "the Apple-led proposal has caused some concern among its rivals that the US group might eventually own the patents". But Apple's letter has removed this roadblock, if it ever was any, through an unequivocal commitment to grant royalty-free licenses to any Apple patents essential to nano-SIM, provided that Apple's proposal is adopted as a standard and that all other patent holders accept the same terms in accordance with the principle of reciprocity. This very plainly means as it is written that Apple will grant royalty free patents essential to their nano-SIM if everyone else makes their own patents royalty free as well for Apple to use. Again I'll quote the best and the REAL meaning of this offer by Apple Quote Apple, however, seized on this as an opportunity to hijack the process with its own patented standard, which it would only offer to competitors "for free" and Nokia if they scrapped existing royalty agreements for patents Apple currently licenses. So in short, Apple doesn't lose anything (doesn't cost them anything), but gets all other patents from competitors. I don't know what is so confusing to your mind that you can't understand what it means. Apple is not just "giving away for free". They are asking others to give away their own patents if they want to use the new Apple sim standard (if it gets voted). It's blackmail. Plain and simple and why Apple is cheating, bribing and scamming this standards voting process by having their own representatives vote as representatives of companies with voting power. So they can win this and then blackmail everyone to allow them access to other patents and if they don't want it they will have to pay the patent and Apple gets everyone's money. This is very clearly their end game and they will do every illegal and unethical thing to get that because it's the easiest way for them to get competitors standards patents for free. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKay Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 On 30/03/2012 at 17:45, rajputwarrior said: apple will even make this royalty free too... i don't see the big deal. smaller sim card, same functions, better for devices that are trying to get smaller and thinner. While Apples Nano-Sim standard may be smaller itself, the tray required to hold it actually makes it bigger. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1067180-apple-cheating-in-the-nano-sim-standard-fight/#findComment-594768864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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