Paul says no WP8 update for current phones

By Stoffel
in Windows Phone/Mobile

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Grand Master

Stoffel

Posted
Posted

Will Microsoft, the Handset Makers, or Microsoft Support Upgrades to Windows Phone 8? Duh. No

There were some dueling stories about whether it would be possible to upgrade any existing Windows Phone handsets?including first generation Windows Phone 7 devices and newer Windows Phone 7.5 handsets like the Lumia 900?to the forthcoming Windows Phone 8. Allow me to set the record straight. No. It will not happen. Not for the Lumia 900, and not for any other existing phone. It won?t happen partially, through an update that will deliver just some features, and it will not happen for those who wish to pay for such an update. It simply is not happening. Sorry. But please don?t email me about this, I?m just the messenger. That said, please consider the following logic behind this decision, which doesn?t explain why I can be so emphatic about this topic?sources at Microsoft confirmed this for me anonymously after the company?s infamously hard to reach Windows Phone PR team belatedly offered up a ?no comment? after repeated queries: First, there?s no economic imperative; Microsoft?s partners have sold very few Windows Phones and supporting a new platform on legacy hardware would be expensive. Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors. Third, handset makers and wireless carriers would never support this upgrade; they want to sell new phones. And finally, wireless carriers would never, ever, ever, ever deliver this update to users. There is just no way this will ever happen. And that?s true even when you factor out that I know for a fact that this is not happening. Again. Sorry.

Source

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888

Community Regular

efjay

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Good luck to Nokia, thats all I can say. I personally wont have a problem as the other 2 are not options for me so I'll be on Windows whatever happens, but the average user who just bought a 900 or anything else wont be so forgiving. And you can bet the tech sites "cough" the verge "cough" will be all over this and the anti-MS fanboys too. If they thought the Kin was a disaster, the crapstorm that would follow this would make that look like lovers kissing in the park! :) Sadly though, Microsoft are stupid, they've proven it time and time again so I wouldnt be surprised.

Grand Master

DrCheese

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Aye, this is why I won't give up my iOS devices any time soon. I know that I'll get at least 2 years of major upgrades (going on 3 for the 3gs) free of charge, day one of release.

I don't have to deal with the whole "Will they, won't they?" mess that Android/WP7 has. Nor do I have to deal with the stupidly long wait that OEMS/Carriers make customers wait if they do decide to even bother porting it.

It's utter junk that phones sold on a 2+ year contract are dropped before they are barely 6 months old.

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Grand Master

Jan Veteran

Posted
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Aye, this is why I won't give up my iOS devices any time soon. I know that I'll get at least 2 years of major upgrades (going on 3 for the 3gs) free of charge, day one of release.

I don't have to deal with the whole "Will they, won't they?" mess that Android/WP7 has. Nor do I have to deal with the stupidly long wait that OEMS/Carriers make customers wait if they do decide to even bother porting it.

It's utter junk that phones sold on a 2+ year contract are dropped before they are barely 6 months old.

I agree. It's a really tough decision personally to choose between a Samsung Galaxy S3 or an iPhone 6, if this is true than WP is a no go for me.

Wuv you cheese <3

Grand Master

+primortal Subscriber²

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This is the same perosn that said Verizon Wireless was getting the Nokia 710 this month and so far no news about the 710.

Plus I posted this, https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1071069-sources-current-windows-phone-devices-will-not-get-apollo-upgrade/page__view__findpost__p__594812469 in that other sources say that the Nokia devices will get the upgrades. So until Microsoft makes a statement no one knows the fate of WP8 on older devices.

Grand Master

Mr. Gibs

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And more rumors. Plus Paul has been wrong so many times before, especially with Windows Phone that's its laughable anyone would take his word for anything.

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At this point we are just passing on rumours, but I am still sure many current and prospective Nokia Lumia owners will want to hear the latest one, which claims that the current Nokia Windows Phone range, including the Nokia Lumia 610 on the low end and Nokia Lumia 900 on the high end will indeed get the Windows Phone 8 update.

The news has been passed on by Jo?o Luis, who claims an extremely reliable insider source he trusts ?200%?

Of course this rumour is not isolated, with Nokia India hinting strongly about an update and recent claims on a Chinese Windows phone forum that a Nokia Lumia 800 is already being tested with Windows Phone 8.

Nokia of course has the most to lose with the rumours that there will not be any Windows phone 8 upgrade for current Nokia Lumia owners, and I suspect there will soon be a strategic video ?leak? from inside Nokia which will erase all doubt.

So like I said again, until Microsoft says anything nobody knows anything. It's all just rumors, and Microsoft are right now too focused on Tango to start talking about Apollo.

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Grand Master

+virtorio MVC

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Well Microsoft, setting this precedent on your platform is one way to bury it. Nice job guys.

I just hope this is another one of Paul's classic "I really don't know what I'm talking about" moments.

Experienced

pickytech

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People need to stop reading what Paul has to stay because Paul is an idiot that does not understand the technical components that he is discussing. His explanation makes no sense whatsoever.

Windows 8 was demonstrated on a single core, 1.2 GHz Quallcom ARM chip last June 2011 at Computex 2011. That alone suggests the true reason that Microsoft has mandated Quallcom-only within the Windows Phone ecosystem. It makes sure backwards compatibility can be guaranteed in a stable way similar to console development (limits the scope and complexity of development).

Furthermore, that was the full blown Windows 8 OS running. Windows Phone 8 will share the same kernel, but it will not require the same number of services to be running because, well, it's a phone. If Apple can get a pared-down version of the Mac OS X kernel to run smoothly on an underclocked, single core 600 MHz ARM chip, then Microsoft can certainly get their Windows 8 kernel to run on 800 MHz (Tango) processors, and certainly the 1+ GHz processors in non-Tango phones.

It's as if Paul has not even paid attention to many of the goals of Windows 8. Less processes, lower memory requirements, and higher throughput. It's exactly what weaker, battery powered devices need.

I am not sure if Microsoft is going to put Windows Phone 8 onto existing phones or not, but I do know that I will not continue to be a WP7 user if they do not (nor will my Lumia 800-toting girlfriend, nor will my Lumia 900-toting brother). I also know that whatever excuse they might dish out would be nothing but an excuse, just like the excuse people forward for Apple with regards to Siri being iPhone 4S-only.

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Grand Master

M_Lyons10

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So, another person not from Microsoft has a say. Shocking. I honestly can't stand all of these people "making news" without the ability to actually say who has said this or that... I think we should really hold off until we actually hear something from Microsoft. In addition, this guy seems to get a little too much enjoyment from giving people this news, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that he did this more for the clicks than anything.

Grand Master

jakem1

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That's a huge blow really :/

The old iPhone 3Gs still can run the latest and greatest iOS version, actually this makes the Android handsets look good (which is pretty bad)

While I think MS should offer some people an upgrade I also think they should do everything they can to avoid a repeat of the dodgy upgrades that Apple puts out. I've lost track of the number of times I've heard that iOS upgrades have left an older iPhone barely running because of performance issues.

As posted above there seem to be lots of rumours about at the moment suggesting the MS are testing WP8 on current Nokia phones. I think I'll wait for an official statement before I believe a blogger who's a little late to the WP-upgrade-rant party ;)

Grand Master

M_Lyons10

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While I think MS should offer some people an upgrade I also think they should do everything they can to avoid a repeat of the dodgy upgrades that Apple puts out. I've lost track of the number of times I've heard that iOS upgrades have left an older iPhone barely running because of performance issues.

As posted above there seem to be lots of rumours about at the moment suggesting the MS are testing WP8 on current Nokia phones. I think I'll wait for an official statement before I believe a blogger who's a little late to the WP-upgrade-rant party ;)

Agreed. Though honestly, I don't see Microsoft releasing an update to WP that would be that much more demanding. Their goals thus far have largely been to keep demands low. I just don't see it happening. Keep in mind too that WP8 will be targeting the low end hardware that Tango is targeting as well. So it has to be able to run on that.

I like how people keep saying that WP8 will be Windows 8 and will be so much more demanding (When that's not what's happening at all). As modular as Windows is, the Kernal from Windows 8 being used in WP8 is not going to mean anything to the user experience other than more features. The UI and everything is still just for WP8 and the services that will be starting with the phone will be totally different as well.

Veteran

CentralDogma

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As modular as Windows is, the Kernal from Windows 8 being used in WP8 is not going to mean anything to the user experience other than more features.

Keep in mind that Windows Phone transitioning to the NT kernel is still a rumor. It makes sense for Microsoft to do so, but it's not confirmed yet.

Grand Master

DrCheese

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While I think MS should offer some people an upgrade I also think they should do everything they can to avoid a repeat of the dodgy upgrades that Apple puts out. I've lost track of the number of times I've heard that iOS upgrades have left an older iPhone barely running because of performance issues.

As posted above there seem to be lots of rumours about at the moment suggesting the MS are testing WP8 on current Nokia phones. I think I'll wait for an official statement before I believe a blogger who's a little late to the WP-upgrade-rant party ;)

Yes and no. Whist the 3g was a total clusterfrak when iOS 4 came out, later iDevices have been much better with later OS's and have benefited massively from the free improvements. eg, the iPad 1st generation gained all of the features of iOS 4 and 5.

The point is tho, at least Apple give the user a choice. They can install the latest firmware and get either all or subset of features from that release on their phones. If they don't want to, they aren't forced to upgrade but they may be left behind as App devs start to create apps that require later OS versions.

Whereas on Android & Soon to be WP7, It will be tough. You'll be stuck on old firmware, despite (At least with the Lumia) your device being around 6/12 months old. Even if you want to upgrade, tough.

You'll either get dropped from dev support or devs will be forced to create apps using older APIs, keeping the entire ecosystem down.

Grand Master

M_Lyons10

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Keep in mind that Windows Phone transitioning to the NT kernel is still a rumor. It makes sense for Microsoft to do so, but it's not confirmed yet.

Yes, I know, but people use that as an argument as to why current phones wouldn't be able to run it, which is complete nonsense. That was more my point than anything. It certainly does make sense to do that, and I imagine they probably will, but in all honesty, we know very little about WP8 at this point. I imagine they're holding onto that for a big reveal at some point (Which at this point I would imagine would be fairly soon).

Grand Master

M_Lyons10

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Whereas on Android & Soon to be WP7, It will be tough. You'll be stuck on old firmware, despite (At least with the Lumia) your device being around 6/12 months old. Even if you want to upgrade, tough.

You'll either get dropped from dev support or devs will be forced to create apps using older APIs, keeping the entire ecosystem down.

This is still just a rumor and has not been confirmed by Microsoft. No formal announcement by anyone "in the know" has been made... So I wouldn't assume WP7 will be in the same boat as Android just yet.

Grand Master

simplezz

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And to think some WP7 users were mocking Android's update system. I dare say they're regretting that now. My phone and many others got the ICS 4.0+ upgrades.

I'm not really surprised by this though. After all, if everyone received the W8 upgrade for free, why would anyone bother to buy a new phone?

Grand Master

simplezz

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Strangely enough, Paul was the one who argued, two years ago, that WP would get every update without fail, regardless of what the carriers wanted. His crystal ball definitely isn't the clearest one out there.

It wasn't just Paul. There was a whole slew of comments, here, and elsewhere, saying WP was the holy grail, fragmentation was a distant memory, and devices will always get the latest updates. Well, if this really is true (might not be of course), then all those promises were empty, and the criticisms of Android were (are) hypocritical to say the least.

Grand Master

simplezz

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Whereas on Android & Soon to be WP7, It will be tough. You'll be stuck on old firmware, despite (At least with the Lumia) your device being around 6/12 months old.

Most recent Android devices have received the ICS update, even tablets like the Xoom. And even if an Android device doesn't recieve it, it's easy enough to install Cyanogenmod, which has the ICS features baked into it.

If this news is true, then people who buy a Lumia now won't even get an update in a few months. That's the worst support possible.

Collaborator

xeleraph

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It wasn't just Paul. There was a whole slew of comments, here, and elsewhere, saying WP was the holy grail, fragmentation was a distant memory, and devices will always get the latest updates. Well, if this really is true (might not be of course), then all those promises were empty, and the criticisms of Android were (are) hypocritical to say the least.

There's no hypocrisy here. Regardless of whether the WP system is any better, the Android upgrade system is a complete clusterf*ck. It would be hypocrisy if the WP system turned out to be worse but people still defend it over Android, but at present that's not the case, and either way it wouldn't change the fact that the Android method is completely f*cked up.

With that said, Paul's arguments make no sense, especially the part where he says that WP8 will only run on dual-core devices. So Microsoft sunk all this time and effort into Tango for low-end phones, only to abandon it completely months later? Despite the fact that we've seen WoA run on a single-core ARM CPU? His arguments just don't compute.

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