Microsoft Drops Aero from Windows 8

By butilikethecookie
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Grand Master

MorganX

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Next up, they're dropping Windows Audio. $19.95 for Windows Audio pack to playback sound in Windows 8 ... I kid.

Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

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Office can be done in metro, honestly when the time comes and WinRT metro apps can run on the "desktop" then they won't be limited to full screen. But even if they are full screen, or two of them snapped, for the majority of people that's enough. The usage cases where a person needs to see more than 2 windows at the same time on their screen starts to drop. It's the same with the multimon stats, after the 2nd monitor the % of usage drops like a brick in water.

Often when I'm doing work I'd have the app I'm working in and my browser, that's still two windows. Regardless, the limitations are mostly due to the framework and not really the UI. Since everyone agrees the desktop isn't going anywhere then I think we can agree that the WinRT framework/platform will move over to it as well in time. Right now the desktop just feels like the old work area for Win32 apps etc but I really believe that come Win9 it won't be like that anymore.

Grand Master

MorganX

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Office can be done in metro, honestly when the time comes and WinRT metro apps can run on the "desktop" then they won't be limited to full screen. But even if they are full screen, or two of them snapped, for the majority of people that's enough. The usage cases where a person needs to see more than 2 windows at the same time on their screen starts to drop. It's the same with the multimon stats, after the 2nd monitor the % of usage drops like a brick in water.

Often when I'm doing work I'd have the app I'm working in and my browser, that's still two windows. Regardless, the limitations are mostly due to the framework and not really the UI. Since everyone agrees the desktop isn't going anywhere then I think we can agree that the WinRT framework/platform will move over to it as well in time. Right now the desktop just feels like the old work area for Win32 apps etc but I really believe that come Win9 it won't be like that anymore.

What you're saying is quite true, with multi mon usage being much lower IME than multi-windows/app usage. This is MS' challenge to create a one-size fits all. Metro apps running windows in the desktop would solve the issue. I'm not against having a Workstation SKU, and a Standard SKU. The fact that multimonitor use is up should be a cue that true multitasking is not going away, if Windows 8+ doesn't accomodate it, something else will.

To be honest, having multimonitors with Start Page in one monitor and desktop in another is the only thing that makes the Start Page and Live Tiles useful on the desktop IMO.

Proficient

Anthonyd

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The point is that unlike classic, the desktop in Windows 8 is just an app and not an entire OS like classic was,

Wrong. Have you ever heard of explorer.exe? It's the same exe in Windows 8 (with an updated version ofc). If you kill explorer.exe, the start screen dies to, along with the Desktop, like the start menu & the Desktop in previous versions of Windows.

Office can be done in metro, honestly when the time comes and WinRT metro apps can run on the "desktop" then they won't be limited to full screen.

You know, you can actually get non-full screen Metro apps with a glitch. I don't think that MS has technical problem to run them on the Desktop, they just don't want to do it for the sake of "chromeless" apps concept.
Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

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Wrong. Have you ever heard of explorer.exe? It's the same exe in Windows 8 (with an updated version ofc). If you kill explorer.exe, the start screen dies to, along with the Desktop, like the start menu & the Desktop in previous versions of Windows.

You know, you can actually get non-full screen Metro apps with a glitch. I don't think that MS has technical problem to run them on the Desktop, they just don't want to do it for the sake of "chromeless" apps concept.

I wasn't aware of a glitch, that's interesting. And yeah, I don't think running them as a window is a technical problem but I just think that for now they want to limit them to the start screen and not the desktop. It could just be because, and this is a guess, that if you run them windowed now, like you say, they have no real window controls (min/max/close) etc like desktop windows. I also think that the "desktop" we'll have later won't be "explorer.exe". What I mean is that it will probably look mostly like it and act like it but it won't be like it is now where it feels like explorer is another app running on the shell (though MS just calls the start screen and desktop "the shell"). I think Windows 9 will be when it all comes together and we'll see the ability to have winrt apps like desktop win32 apps. MS is going to add more and more features/support into the winrt api/framework that win32 has and once they get close to the same level we should see this starting to take shape.

Another reason they're probably limiting metro apps to the start screen and in full screen only for now is probably also because of tablets since that usage case works best. I think trying to manage a number of windowed apps with touch can be a pain as well.

Collaborator

contextfree

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Yeah, "Metro" isn't really a new shell, it's just a set of features added to the existing shell.

btw, that AOL comparison pic is complete BS. classic grid alignment, IGA-style icons vs. 90s style randomly aligned text and shapes. yeah, I can't tell the difference at all. :rolleyes:

Grand Master

pmrd

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Some people here need to get their head checked (I'm talking to you Windows 8 haters). I'm a professional programmer and have been for 10 years, Me and my entire team are currently using Windows 8 and Visual Studio 11 to develop a huge application and website for a big company and we find that Windows 8 improved our workflow. We would never ever go back to 7.

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scaramonga

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Some people here need to get their head checked (I'm talking to you Windows 8 haters). I'm a professional programmer and have been for 10 years, Me and my entire team are currently using Windows 8 and Visual Studio 11 to develop a huge application and website for a big company and we find that Windows 8 improved our workflow. We would never ever go back to 7.

2lmv2o7.gif

Grand Master

MorganX

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really people? is it really so hard to believe that some people actually find the metro start screen an improvement?

Absolutely not. Is it so hard to believe some people actually find the metro start screen a step backwards and nuisance on the desktop? MS has a tough job here and can't possibly please everyone. They're going for the lowest common denominator, or actually highest; casual user/general consumers and it will be great for them, even on the desktop. It will be great for everyone on tablets.

People complain all the time about changes in Windows, but never before has something actually taken so many backwards and added no clear value and committed a Windows no-no, makes many users less efficient.

It's not as good as its lovers thing, and not as bad as its haters think. By Windows 9 things should be smoothed over, MS will make it optional or allow Metro apps to run in desktop and windowed.

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nub

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Some people here need to get their head checked (I'm talking to you Windows 8 haters). I'm a professional programmer and have been for 10 years, Me and my entire team are currently using Windows 8 and Visual Studio 11 to develop a huge application and website for a big company and we find that Windows 8 improved our workflow. We would never ever go back to 7.

Do you use the Metro interface?

Grand Master

Stoffel

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Some people here need to get their head checked (I'm talking to you Windows 8 haters). I'm a professional programmer and have been for 10 years, Me and my entire team are currently using Windows 8 and Visual Studio 11 to develop a huge application and website for a big company and we find that Windows 8 improved our workflow. We would never ever go back to 7.

Stop making sense, it' doesn't sound good for the Metro haters

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Grand Master

pmrd

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I love the hate. I find it funny (in some cases, pathetic) how some people are misinformed about Windows 8 or simply refuse to learn. And my last post is real I'm not trolling and I use metro a lot (I got 30 apps), it's wonderful. Microsoft wanted to do something new and they did. If windows 8 makes using the computer harder than you are probably using it wrong.

Grand Master

TheLegendOfMart

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Some people here need to get their head checked (I'm talking to you Windows 8 haters). I'm a professional programmer and have been for 10 years, Me and my entire team are currently using Windows 8 and Visual Studio 11 to develop a huge application and website for a big company and we find that Windows 8 improved our workflow. We would never ever go back to 7.

Yeah I agree, how dare people want to use the PC how they want to use it, should I bow down at your feet or do you just want me to kiss your ass just because you are a 'professional'?

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foonacha

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If Microsoft truly believe in the superiority of the metro Interface over the Desktop, then why don't they use this PR opportunity to demonstrate this to the world via a public face-off between both versions of Windows? After all, they have been pushing the "Smoked By Windows Phone" meme for ages now? So not that difficult for them to arrange similar public displays to prove which OS (7 or 8) is the real deal when it comes to productivity.

(My suspicion is that we'll never see such an event as any computer professional worth his salt would be able to show how efficient the Desktop environment is every time).

Oh, & to keep on-topic: I am a huge fan of Aero & it's Glass effects. Beats looking at plain windows every time aesthetically. MS should leave the "App" - world to those who wish to waste time playing micro-paid for games on their Win 8 Pads. Not all of us want to do that.

Grand Master

jakem1

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If Microsoft truly believe in the superiority of the metro Interface over the Desktop...

What makes you think that they do think that one UI is superior to the other? As far as I can tell they recognise that the different interfaces work well for different usage scenarios. Metro works well for content consumption and the desktop works well for content creation.

The problem doesn't seem to be Microsoft (after all, they're giving you two interfaces, not forcing you to use just one) but users who seem to think they will be forced to use Metro for everything.

Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

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What makes you think that they do think that one UI is superior to the other? As far as I can tell they recognise that the different interfaces work well for different usage scenarios. Metro works well for content consumption and the desktop works well for content creation.

The problem doesn't seem to be Microsoft (after all, they're giving you two interfaces, not forcing you to use just one) but users who seem to think they will be forced to use Metro for everything.

I agree, the only problem on MS's side is that, for now, the two UIs don't match well. I expect this to change in Win9, or MS could surprise us and bring tweaks with the first service pack to win8. Either way the desktop is going to turn into another "workspace" for those who need to run multiple windows (3 or more basically) but I'm betting it'll also run metro apps in windowed mode as well when the time comes. I think the taskbar we know will change yet again and probably end up supporting live tiles as well, which would be very cool to have IMO.

Grand Master

Calum Veteran

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  • Veteran
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Some people here need to get their head checked (I'm talking to you Windows 8 haters). I'm a professional programmer and have been for 10 years, Me and my entire team are currently using Windows 8 and Visual Studio 11 to develop a huge application and website for a big company and we find that Windows 8 improved our workflow. We would never ever go back to 7.

Thank you for informing of your experience. I haven't programmed much on my personal PC for a while, so I haven't been able to see whether Windows 8 would harm my productivity. I don't expect it would, but many others appear to think it would/does, which intrigues me.

Grand Master

jakem1

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I agree, the only problem on MS's side is that, for now, the two UIs don't match well. I expect this to change in Win9, or MS could surprise us and bring tweaks with the first service pack to win8. Either way the desktop is going to turn into another "workspace" for those who need to run multiple windows (3 or more basically) but I'm betting it'll also run metro apps in windowed mode as well when the time comes. I think the taskbar we know will change yet again and probably end up supporting live tiles as well, which would be very cool to have IMO.

Oh yes I agree that switching between interfaces is currently jarring. However, that's why I think it's a good idea to get rid of Aero Glass (or not use it as the default) - a flatter, Metro-ised UI on the desktop will make the transition from desktop to immersive much smoother.

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