Windows 8 Release Preview Discussion

By Roger H.
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted

I don't understand, what part of my post made you think that Microsoft won't support high resolution screens or apps with "complicated interfaces"? I'd suggest you bring up that b8 post and go through it. :) They will support high-res displays as long as the display resolution is some multiple of the base resolution (1366?768).

I think the main point here is, I, nor anyone else running a 30 inch LCD with 2560x1600 want a full screen Weather/Mail app that we can't window.... that's why most of us bought a large high res screen, so we can run more apps at once with plenty of space to work.

Grand Master

neo1911

Posted
Posted

After using RP for a day, the Metro UI really gets in the way for doing basic tasks like shutting down. I miss the gestures so many times and then I have to waste time doing a retry.

I uninstalled all the metro apps from the Frankenstein start screen and pinned all desktop apps there.

Grand Master

Argi

Posted
Posted

Won't most of us be on the desktop anyway, though? The metro start screen is just for starting applications, and a general "hub".

Mail - Outlook

Browser - Desktop IE/Chrome

for example.

Edit: and those apps that you use most often will be pinned to the taskbar, too. Or desktop icons.

Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted

Won't most of us be on the desktop anyway, though? The metro start screen is just for starting applications, and a general "hub".

Perhaps, but what was wrong with the other method.. click start, click app.

Or, press Windows Key, type in "Mail"<enter>

I'm not saying the new Start screen doesn't do the same stuff, there are just a couple of points. 1: It doesn't really improve productivity in my opinion and 2: It doesn't improve anything drastically enough to warrant the change.

If it did improve on both of those aspects, I don't see a problem...

It's almost as if MS is trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Collaborator

Subhadip

Posted
Posted

I think the main point here is, I, nor anyone else running a 30 inch LCD with 2560x1600 want a full screen Weather/Mail app that we can't window.... that's why most of us bought a large high res screen, so we can run more apps at once with plenty of space to work.

You can use Metro Snap, which works great for these situations. I have snapped apps like Weather/Mail and unlike resizing I don't have to adjust by scroll / zoom to fit the new orientation, it just changes context automatically.

But here's the great part - you can use Metro Snap alongside the Desktop. So you get best of both worlds.

What Microsoft is giving us here is choice. They know just as well that Metro is great for some things, Desktop is better for others. There's a reason they haven't removed the Desktop and in fact have continued to make significant enhancement.

That said, in coming years, we will see Metro UI gain the capabilities of Desktop.

Grand Master

Argi

Posted
Posted

It's almost as if MS is trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Well, the problem is that Windows 7 isn't that great to work with on tablets. The problem doesn't apply to desktops, obviously.

When I think about the way I actually use my PC, it's mostly Chrome, Outlook, Visual Studio, Lync, other desktops apps. There's not a lot of Metro apps in that list, so I figure I'll be mostly on the desktop and when I want to check the weather, or check news, or RSS feeds I can simply hit start and go from there.

Most of those apps are pinned on the taskbar too, or I have shortcuts on the desktop. For everything else, I just hit Start and type the name and hit enter.

Similarly, my mum/grandma have desktop icons and taskbar buttons. They don't use the start menu in Win 7 to do things.

Mentor

Luis Mazza

Posted
Posted

Did you try booting in safe mode and rolling back the drivers?

Yes, but after the mess I did until I tried this, things are much worse now :(

I'm trying to boot from the DVD right now and run chkdsk... I don't know why, but Windows 8 hates chkdsk and getting into safe mode is a pain as I have to wait the OS wishing to try everything else before showing me the menu I could get with a simple F8 before.

Fast boot = no F8 = MS BULL****

Collaborator

Subhadip

Posted
Posted

The Start Menu is OK for starting up your most used apps. Nothing has changed there, it certainly isn't a step back like many are saying. But start maenu was atrocious for finding less used apps, detailed searches, finding files, etc. There's a whole blog post on B8 regarding how much more flexible Start screen is. Just looking at Start screen as a replacement for Start menu here, without the other benefits of WinRT and Metro UI.

Grand Master

Vice

Posted
Posted

I don't understand, what part of my post made you think that Microsoft won't support high resolution screens or apps with "complicated interfaces"? I'd suggest you bring up that b8 post and go through it. :) They will support high-res displays as long as the display resolution is some multiple of the base resolution (1366?768).

You never linked to any posts at B8, I'm not gonna go troweling for it through their blog if I've no clue what the post looks like. But your post makes it sound like the interface merely scales up and down e.g. making everything bigger or smaller. Not actually utilising the extra pixels that are available by filling it with more content merely up scaling the same content that a tablet sized screen can view.

Veteran

rfirth

Posted
Posted

Not actually utilising the extra pixels that are available by filling it with more content merely up scaling the same content that a tablet sized screen can view.

That's up to the developer to do. The same thing happens on desktop apps if the developer doesn't take this into account.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

I think the main point here is, I, nor anyone else running a 30 inch LCD with 2560x1600 want a full screen Weather/Mail app that we can't window.... that's why most of us bought a large high res screen, so we can run more apps at once with plenty of space to work.

That's a different point altogether... :)

You never linked to any posts at B8, I'm not gonna go troweling for it through their blog if I've no clue what the post looks like. But your post makes it sound like the interface merely scales up and down e.g. making everything bigger or smaller. Not actually utilising the extra pixels that are available by filling it with more content merely up scaling the same content that a tablet sized screen can view.

Aah now I see your point. :) I think we both are referring different things. I was commenting about DPI/interface scaling whereas you are talking about layout if I understand correctly.

Yes, I never linked the blog post (hence "you bring up"), too lazy to look it up.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

I could access the taskbar where my most used icons are docked 24/7 without having to close out of the Start Screen...

but if you are always living in Desktop (for various reasons such as a large screen, multi monitor) - once you pin those icons to taskbar - it is still same as Windows 7, right? (in context of your original post). You can still access jumplists for say remote desktop (which I do often at work).

Mentor

ArialBlue

Posted
Posted

I still can't believe that NVIDIA has failed to fix the freezing issues with Windows 8. I mean it was a very long time since Windows 8 CP came out, why is this issue still not fixed?

I mean, I can't really enjoy Windows 8 if it just gets stuck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck

Veteran

bobbba

Posted
Posted

I also installed it last night and I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on these:

  1. Why is shutdown, restart a "setting"?
  2. Why is there 2 control panels?
  3. Why are there no interface prompts to where to click for the various panels, when I open a metro app it's nothing but the app with no clues where to click to get out of it?
  4. Why is the metro IE's address bar at the bottom and only accessible by a right click?

Don't get me wrong it's just that whilst I like some of the features overall I can't understand why it's so limiting in so many ways.

Grand Master

Bryan R.

Posted
Posted

I haven't been too up to date on this whole Windows 8 thing. For people who use Outlook for calendar, mail, etc, shouldn't the Metro apps for those things be able to grab the info? If not, there should be a Metro app for Outlook?

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted
That's up to the developer to do. The same thing happens on desktop apps if the developer doesn't take this into account.

The trouble is that the same applies to the included app by Microsoft. The majority of Metro apps simply aren't suitable for large, high-resolution displays.

As for the stability issues mentioned, I'm using the latest nVidia drivers - the regular Win7 ones - and haven't had any issues. However, games performance in DiRT Showdown and Diablo III was definitely behind that of Win7; that's especially strange with Diablo III when it really isn't a demanding game and my specs are complete overkill for it.

Collaborator

NeoandGeo

Posted
Posted

I still can't believe that NVIDIA has failed to fix the freezing issues with Windows 8. I mean it was a very long time since Windows 8 CP came out, why is this issue still not fixed?

I mean, I can't really enjoy Windows 8 if it just gets stuck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck uck

Hmm. I have a GTX680 and am experiencing freezing issues where the computer will lock up but I can still move my mouse. Nothing else is operational, though, can't click on anything. I will try to reinstall when the drivers are released and see how that works.

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted

Hmm. I have a GTX680 and am experiencing freezing issues where the computer will lock up but I can still move my mouse. Nothing else is operational, though, can't click on anything. I will try to reinstall when the drivers are released and see how that works.

I'm using the latest nVidia drivers with a pair of GTX680s in SLI and haven't had any issues, though as I mentioned games performance is decidedly hit-and-miss. nVidia will be releasing certified drivers next week using a new architecture - the 302s. They should improve gaming and address the stability issues people have mentioned.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

If this is true then it guarantees the Metro apps will never be very powerful because the most demanding applications have very complicated user interfaces with lots of buttons and make great use of the available space, every inch of it. An example of that would be Photoshop or Microsoft Excel. If things are designed to scale up and always be large not being able to have tiny tiny buttons designed for a mouse because they have to cater for chubby fingers all the time then it just isn't ever going to get better than what we already see in Metro today.

Meanwhile Apple works to bring Resolution Independence to Mountain Lion and launch displays with a resolution higher than my 30" in a 17" notebook without losing detail. I think Apple gets it, consumers want a higher quality window in to their computing without sacrificing usability. Microsoft seems to take the approach of pulling everyone down to the lowest common dominator or in this case, resolution.

And hasn't Microsoft said that certain applications will *never* be WinRT for the foreseeable future for that reason among others? (Photoshop was given as an example.)

On the one hand, you deride Windows 8 for looking like a tablet/smartphone OS, but on the other hand, you chew it out for not having tablet/phone-OS applications - despite being quite aware that WinRT (as an API) is way too new.

I don't expect every application will become a WinRT application in the future - in fact, I expect that some will be in both sorts (documents readers, for example) for the foreseeable future.

Just as it has been when Win32 was the only API supported by Windows, there will be some types of applications that will take to WinRT like a duck to water - regardless of what size screen you have. Full-screen-only applications, for example, seem to perform best on desktops - that is true of WinRT *and* Win32. (Or are you say that Win32 applications are *always* a perfect for a larger-screen flat-panel display? I'm certainly not - the issues I have with Win32 applications are the same in both 8 and 7 - and all have to do with window size. The advantage of Win32 is that application window size can be adjustable - and quite finely; WinRT doesn't permit that.)

In other words, it's still horses for courses with applications - regardless of API.

Games, on the other hand, are typically full-screen - the exception being browser-based games and some smaller games - such as PopCap's Bejeweled series, which run better windowed than full-screen. (Again, equally true regardless of which Windows they run on.) The WinRT games I play (which comprise the entirety of WinRT software that I run on a daily basis) I run full-screen - not windowed.

Just because WinRT is there does NOT mean you have to run the applications available - they may not suit you. (So far, I *still* haven't found a non-gaming WinRT application that's suited me.)

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