Windows 8 Release Preview Discussion

[NeoandGeo]

I'm using the latest nVidia drivers with a pair of GTX680s in SLI and haven't had any issues, though as I mentioned games performance is decidedly hit-and-miss. nVidia will be releasing certified drivers next week using a new architecture - the 302s. They should improve gaming and address the stability issues people have mentioned.

I tried the latest and the 300.83 set and both exhibited the behavior on my system. Is this something that has been mentioned by others here? I would like to test the RP, but crashing every couple minutes is frustrating.

[Vice]

And hasn't Microsoft said that certain applications will *never* be WinRT for the foreseeable future for that reason among others? (Photoshop was given as an example.)

On the one hand, you deride Windows 8 for looking like a tablet/smartphone OS, but on the other hand, you chew it out for not having tablet/phone-OS applications - despite being quite aware that WinRT (as an API) is way too new.

I don't expect every application will become a WinRT application in the future - in fact, I expect that some will be in both sorts (documents readers, for example) for the foreseeable future.

Just as it has been when Win32 was the only API supported by Windows, there will be some types of applications that will take to WinRT like a duck to water - regardless of what size screen you have. Full-screen-only applications, for example, seem to perform best on desktops - that is true of WinRT *and* Win32. (Or are you say that Win32 applications are *always* a perfect for a larger-screen flat-panel display? I'm certainly not - the issues I have with Win32 applications are the same in both 8 and 7 - and all have to do with window size. The advantage of Win32 is that application window size can be adjustable - and quite finely; WinRT doesn't permit that.)

In other words, it's still horses for courses with applications - regardless of API.

Games, on the other hand, are typically full-screen - the exception being browser-based games and some smaller games - such as PopCap's Bejeweled series, which run better windowed than full-screen. (Again, equally true regardless of which Windows they run on.) The WinRT games I play (which comprise the entirety of WinRT software that I run on a daily basis) I run full-screen - not windowed.

Just because WinRT is there does NOT mean you have to run the applications available - they may not suit you. (So far, I *still* haven't found a non-gaming WinRT application that's suited me.)

Yes because you can't run desktop applications on the ARM version of Windows 8 but you can't deactivate Metro on x86 processors. Why am I running Metro if all the software I use doesn't work in it? Just so I can be inconvenienced by an extra screen when I boot up and need to search for a file or launch an app I've not yet pinned to my task bar?

Everyone on here keeps saying Metro is the future as if eventually the desktop is going away that is where my comments are coming from, if Metro is the future then it's going to be a pretty rubbish future. I think Windows 9 will see Metro scaled back considerably and even perhaps disabled by default when a touch interface is not detected.

[T.J]

I can't boot to Windows 8 (unless on Safe Mode) because I tried to install a damn touchpad driver that didn't work (Macbook Pro 2011).

PLEASE, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THIS???

There are no Repair Points, they don't work and I don't want to use the Refresh feature as it deletes all my apps.

PLEASE? :) :cry:

Remove the touchpad driver in the device manager and/or in "add and remove programs".

[PGHammer]

I haven't been too up to date on this whole Windows 8 thing. For people who use Outlook for calendar, mail, etc, shouldn't the Metro apps for those things be able to grab the info? If not, there should be a Metro app for Outlook?

Outlook works just fine as-is in Windows 8 - in fact, it's my mail application of choice still.

First off, it supports POP3 - which the Mail and Messaging WinRT app does not. (My default mail account - that from my Internet provider - is POP3. Were Google my default mail account, I could use the included Mail app for everything (as it supports IMAP4, which is the default for Google's mail service. Outlook *also* supports IMAP4; therefore I can use it for everything.)

Just because you haven't found WinRT applications to be your cup of tea, that does NOT mean that the Release Preview itself is lacking - I certainly haven't found it to be the case.

[Sszecret Veteran]

I also installed it last night and I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on these:

1. Why is shutdown, restart a "setting"?
   
2. Why is there 2 control panels?
   
3. Why are there no interface prompts to where to click for the various panels, when I open a metro app it's nothing but the app with no clues where to click to get out of it?
   
4. Why is the metro IE's address bar at the bottom and only accessible by a right click?
   

Don't get me wrong it's just that whilst I like some of the features overall I can't understand why it's so limiting in so many ways.

1. That one seems odd to me too, I don't really have any idea why "shutdown" would be considered a setting.

2. Well one of them is for the Metro environment and is more limited and the other one is the same Control Panel included in 7. The latter is for the more advanced tweaks you would want to make.

3. I think MS considers that consumers will automatically mouse down to the left corner (because it's a reflex, we've been doing this to access the start menu) and when they do that, they'll be presented with the "Start tip" which takes them back to the Start Screen. That's how you get out of an app. As for accessing the other panels, well... there will be a tutorial for Windows 8 so if the OS works the way the tutorial says it does, then the user would assume that the apps make use of the right click / hot corners in the same way. Then again, I think your average Joe / Jane will actually discover this feature by accident.

4. I think that if you're on a tablet, it's easier to hit the bottom part of the device in order to type in the adress. It's accessible via right click because, as someone said, "when in doubt, right click". This is also the way you get to any of the other panels that appear at the bottom of the screen. (the "app bars")

It's limiting partly because they've designed it that way and partly because it's pretty much a 1.0 product. At least that's what I think.

[xendrome]

Well, the problem is that Windows 7 isn't that great to work with on tablets. The problem doesn't apply to desktops, obviously.

Totally, and Windows 8 is awesome and works great on my Acer W500 touchscreen tablet... I love it on that...

[Subhadip]

Still wish Windows Defender had a tray icon. :/

Makes more sense collapsed into Action Center. I think Microsoft has been trying to fight the "antivirus is annoying" myth for a long time. I know a couple of people who moved to Mac OS X simply because they were annoyed by the whole virus / antivirus scenario in the mid-2000s. With Windows 8 they have finally achieved it. It is completely invisible. Norton, McAfee & co will cry foul, obviously, but this is great stuff for the Windows user.

[PGHammer]

Yes because you can't run desktop applications on the ARM version of Windows 8 but you can't deactivate Metro on x86 processors. Why am I running Metro if all the software I use doesn't work in it? Just so I can be inconvenienced by an extra screen when I boot up and need to search for a file or launch an app I've not yet pinned to my task bar?

Everyone on here keeps saying Metro is the future as if eventually the desktop is going away that is where my comments are coming from, if Metro is the future then it's going to be a pretty rubbish future. I think Windows 9 will see Metro scaled back considerably and even perhaps disabled by default when a touch interface is not detected.

I said no such thing - in fact, *Microsoft* said no such thing.

Who, in fact, said any such thing?

[SekaiStory]

Loved the Windows Live integration, when I connect my account after the first boot it literally synced everything, such a blast. Build really feels more stable than the CP so I might use it as my daily OS. Really loving it, especially the new apps.

Just one thing, is it still impossible to post a tweet or Facebook update natively? I can't seem to find it in the People app while you can reply/retweet/like everything. It's really a setback on the experience.

[PGHammer]

Yes because you can't run desktop applications on the ARM version of Windows 8 but you can't deactivate Metro on x86 processors. Why am I running Metro if all the software I use doesn't work in it? Just so I can be inconvenienced by an extra screen when I boot up and need to search for a file or launch an app I've not yet pinned to my task bar?

Everyone on here keeps saying Metro is the future as if eventually the desktop is going away that is where my comments are coming from, if Metro is the future then it's going to be a pretty rubbish future. I think Windows 9 will see Metro scaled back considerably and even perhaps disabled by default when a touch interface is not detected.

And if you limited WinRT apps to ARM, how much development of them would there be - especially compared to far more established APIs or OSes such as iOS or Android?

If WinRT were indeed limited to tablets and slates on non-x86 hardware - which seems to be the direction that would satisfy you - what incentive would there be for developers as opposed to iOS or Android? Some of you are quite obviously - and correctly - pointing out that WinRT would have no future at all - which would apparently suit you just fine.

[Bryan R.]

Outlook works just fine as-is in Windows 8 - in fact, it's my mail application of choice still.

First off, it supports POP3 - which the Mail and Messaging WinRT app does not. (My default mail account - that from my Internet provider - is POP3. Were Google my default mail account, I could use the included Mail app for everything (as it supports IMAP4, which is the default for Google's mail service. Outlook *also* supports IMAP4; therefore I can use it for everything.)

Just because you haven't found WinRT applications to be your cup of tea, that does NOT mean that the Release Preview itself is lacking - I certainly haven't found it to be the case.

I don't think you understand what I'm asking.. I have Outlook 2010 and, yes, it works perfectly, outside of Metro. However, the tiles on the Start Menu for mail and calendar are useless if you're Outlook and not those apps. I think one of two things needs to happen:

1) Outlook integrates into those existing Metro apps/tiles

2) Outlook comes with Metro apps/tiles for the Start Menu

[BajiRav]

Yes because you can't run desktop applications on the ARM version of Windows 8 but you can't deactivate Metro on x86 processors. Why am I running Metro if all the software I use doesn't work in it? Just so I can be inconvenienced by an extra screen when I boot up and need to search for a file or launch an app I've not yet pinned to my task bar?

Everyone on here keeps saying Metro is the future as if eventually the desktop is going away that is where my comments are coming from, if Metro is the future then it's going to be a pretty rubbish future. I think Windows 9 will see Metro scaled back considerably and even perhaps disabled by default when a touch interface is not detected.

You are confusing metro as an interface paradigm in general (as applied to WP, Xbox, websites etc.) and the specific Windows 8 app styles.

I think when Microsoft says metro is the future, they are referring the the interface in general.

e.g. The Zune software which is a 100% metro app runs on desktop.

Although I understand your point, I think you are right - it will take Windows 9 for Microsoft to make it work well on both sides or at least blend them better. (Similar to how UAC was handled between Vista-7).

[giantpotato]

Yes because you can't run desktop applications on the ARM version of Windows 8 but you can't deactivate Metro on x86 processors. Why am I running Metro if all the software I use doesn't work in it? Just so I can be inconvenienced by an extra screen when I boot up and need to search for a file or launch an app I've not yet pinned to my task bar?

...

Wouldn't that actually be faster with the start screen? just start typing as soon as the screen shows up. With windows 7 you would have to bring up the start menu first before searching.

[Argi]

1) Outlook integrates into those existing Metro apps/tiles

2) Outlook comes with Metro apps/tiles for the Start Menu

Are you expecting those to happen for Office 2010? :huh:

[Vice]

I said no such thing - in fact, *Microsoft* said no such thing.

Who, in fact, said any such thing?

The people in this forum. In this very thread even people have been saying Metro is the future and people who don't like it are wrong in their opinions etc - You guys think this is the future of computing, I think not.

[Noir Angel]

You never linked to any posts at B8, I'm not gonna go troweling for it through their blog if I've no clue what the post looks like. But your post makes it sound like the interface merely scales up and down e.g. making everything bigger or smaller. Not actually utilising the extra pixels that are available by filling it with more content merely up scaling the same content that a tablet sized screen can view.

Yeah, that's something I've noticed as well. I have a 1080p screen and some WinRT apps just look odd on a high resolution screen, it seems as if they're making poor usage of the space available

The people in this forum. In this very thread even people have been saying Metro is the future and people who don't like it are wrong in their opinions etc - You guys think this is the future of computing, I think not.

If it is a vision of Microsoft's future it's one I have no intention of being a party to.

[Klownicle]

This is my first initial impressions with Windows 8 Release Preview. I do believe that it has huge potential, but im worried about slow adoptation. Im a Power and Business IT Field user. I installed Windows 8 on my Acer W500 Tablet; which went flawlessly. I find Metro to be very easy on the eyes but I find myself continuely wanting to go to the Desktop expierence to do real work. I play in Metro and work/productive on the Desktop. I see Metro as being the gateway to social/fun/media consumption not productivity. I'm very interested to see how Windows 8 would work in Domain enviroments where restrictions are inplace that prevent most of what Metro is for.

In short, I see Windows 8 being a plus for Microsoft, without the negative that Vista or ME brought to the market. I don't see companies rolling out till a Windows (9?) comes into play. Once Microsoft finally sees were improvements need to be made.

I will have it on my tablet, but in its current state and more importantly age, my desktop will likly stay Windows 7.

On the plus side, its wicked fast.

[jakem1]

The people in this forum. In this very thread even people have been saying Metro is the future and people who don't like it are wrong in their opinions etc - You guys think this is the future of computing, I think not.

If people are claiming that future versions of Windows will be Metro-only then I think you can ignore them. Microsoft have clearly said that they see a future for the desktop and it's not going anywhere. Metro is designed for content consumption and the desktop will remain for content creation.

Niche users like you who have multiple high-res monitors should really be sticking to the desktop as it's clearly better suited to the way you need to use your computer.

[MorganX]

If people are claiming that future versions of Windows will be Metro-only then I think you can ignore them. Microsoft have clearly said that they see a future for the desktop and it's not going anywhere. Metro is designed for content consumption and the desktop will remain for content creation.

Niche users like you who have multiple high-res monitors should really be sticking to the desktop as it's clearly better suited to the way you need to use your computer.

I think it's clearly a work in progress. Windowing evnironments for workstations will never go away. I see Metro running in a windowed desktop environment in Windows 9. I think there will be large rejection on the desktop. I also think there will be bigger success on tablets and on the desktop for consumer level users of home PCs.

I also think MS is probably shocked by the lasting negativity, not toward Windows 8, toward Metro on the desktop. I think when it's all said and done, some ex-executive will write a tell all book. I'm sure there's KIN-level politics and infighting behind this.

The Start Page just is not great or even good on a desktop IMO. But, there is a lot of potential. We shall see. If the performance improvements survive to RTM, that goes a long way with the same crowd that makes up many of those not digging on the Metro UI/X.

[Quillz]

I'm sure it's been brought up, but the RP got rid of the magnifying glass icon on the Start screen. I figured out you can click on the minus icon to zoom out, but I can't figure out how to add a title to my icon groups. Did the feature go away?

[George P Global Moderator]

I'm sure it's been brought up, but the RP got rid of the magnifying glass icon on the Start screen. I figured out you can click on the minus icon to zoom out, but I can't figure out how to add a title to my icon groups. Did the feature go away?

No it's still there, after you zoom out, I forget exactly what you have to do atm, uhh, I think you right click to bring up the menu at the bottom which has the option to name a group, or you might have to right click on one of the tab groups you have first? I can't remember off the top of my head.

[George P Global Moderator]

The B8 blog post some people have brought up is one I remember, but I can't remember the name of it. It's not so much about apps or the start screen "scaling" to make things bigger (bigger text, bigger tiles etc) so much as automatically showing more stuff on the screen. That is, if the app is coded right in the first place.

Long story short the start screen by default does this, on lower res screens you only get 3 rows of tiles, on bigger desktop monitors you get up to 6 rows (6 might be the limit I think). If you look at the picture of the big 80" tv running the start screen you'll see what they mean, the tiles aren't "bigger" you just see "more" of them on the bigger screen. Of course if you only have 10 tiles up on a 30" monitor then the point is moot.

Apps can be the same, though the developer has to work it that way, but they can show "more" content on a bigger screen if they're done right. At this point you're just not seeing it yet though.

Here, a quick search in bing found the post for me.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/21/scaling-to-different-screens.aspx

[Dot Matrix]

I'm sure it's been brought up, but the RP got rid of the magnifying glass icon on the Start screen. I figured out you can click on the minus icon to zoom out, but I can't figure out how to add a title to my icon groups. Did the feature go away?

Nope. Zoom out, and right click on a select group, you can then give it a name.

[Squuiid]

This is my first initial impressions with Windows 8 Release Preview. I do believe that it has huge potential, but im worried about slow adoptation. Im a Power and Business IT Field user. I installed Windows 8 on my Acer W500 Tablet; which went flawlessly. I find Metro to be very easy on the eyes but I find myself continuely wanting to go to the Desktop expierence to do real work. I play in Metro and work/productive on the Desktop. I see Metro as being the gateway to social/fun/media consumption not productivity. I'm very interested to see how Windows 8 would work in Domain enviroments where restrictions are inplace that prevent most of what Metro is for.

In short, I see Windows 8 being a plus for Microsoft, without the negative that Vista or ME brought to the market. I don't see companies rolling out till a Windows (9?) comes into play. Once Microsoft finally sees were improvements need to be made.

I will have it on my tablet, but in its current state and more importantly age, my desktop will likly stay Windows 7.

On the plus side, its wicked fast.

Very well written. I completly agree with everything you said! Nice one.

[Wyn6]

It strikes me as odd how, professed, geeks, nerds, techies, and the like can't use Windows 8. Or, it simply kills them to make one extra subtle finger movement clicking to shut down their computers, or drag the mouse to a corner, or tap the Windows key.

It's mindboggling how the Start Screen can be so confusing and such a huge inconvenience. Is it the myriad of colors that throws you off? I mean, there's text that tells you what something is right there on each tile. Is it because it isn't JUST and icon but an icon with a rectangular background? I'm really not trying to be funny here though it may seem that way.

Since the Dev Pre... scratch that. Let's jump up to the Con Pre. Since then I've seen nothing but, "OMG! It takes too long to shut down the computer!" "Why do I have to boot into the Start Screen?" "What a waste of space. I want my clutter back!" "I don't want a smartphone on my desktop!" "This is horrible for desktop!" This is gimped!" "I hate it I'm moving to OS-X/Linux/an Abbacus!"

Really guys? I'd wager that many of you geeks collective tech knowledge is leaps and bounds beyond that of the average citizen. Yet, some of you seem to be utterly handicapped, and/or paralyzed by Windows 8. I guarantee I'm not the geekiest tech or techiest geek here, but using Windows 8 is a breeze for me. And, you can't tell me I'm any smarter than any of you. I use my computer to write mostly. But, I also use it for the normal, everyday stuff like web surfing, email, reading news, sports, etc. And, the not so everyday stuff like a bit of code parsing, QC on my brother's apps, and film editing.

I have the necessary SDKs, editing software, and what not right here on Windows 8 and work in them the same as I did in 7 with what I believe are more convenient features. At any given time I have 5-10 programs/apps open and I switch between them as quick as pie with nary a dent in my productivity. Can pie be quick? Anyway... I spend equal amounts of time on the desktop and the Metro side. Oh. And, I also only have one monitor which happens to be a 42" 1080p LCD. Well, one monitor I use on a regular basis. I have about 5.

I guess too, I like new tech and I see how powerful WinRT, its apps, and the Start Screen can be. Sorry. I'm not criticizing so much as I'm really trying to figure this out. Color me perplexed. I get that it's not for everybody, nothing is. But, some of the logic/reasoning behind why people claim not to like it baffles me.

One man's treasure and all that.