Windows 8 Release Preview Discussion

By Roger H.
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

Microsoft needs to fix this mess by creating a generic driver that works with 90% of existing touchpads. They created this mess. And on a laptop with a pad, it's a navigation mess. They can do it.

Contributor

Thingol

Posted
Posted

I was prepared to eat my words, but even with that short cut its far more steps than windows 7 lol...

Win + W, Search for restart, click "turn of my pc (all this does it bring up the settings charm...), click power, restart.

I prefer Ctrl+Alt+Del. Other way must be some kind of joke :)

Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

I was prepared to eat my words, but even with that short cut its far more steps than windows 7 lol...

Win + W, Search for restart, click "turn of my pc (all this does it bring up the settings charm...), click power, restart.

You want to restart the computer?

shutdown -r -t 0 works in Windows Everything.

Alternatively, use a Gadget if rapid power cycling is what you're into:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/personalize/gadgets

Vista Shutdown Control

Experienced

Wyn6

Posted
Posted

I was prepared to eat my words, but even with that short cut its far more steps than windows 7 lol...

Win + W, Search for restart, click "turn of my pc (all this does it bring up the settings charm...), click power, restart.

This argument has always baffled me. More steps? It's 4 steps and takes two seconds to swoop into the lower right corner, click Settings>Power>Shutdown/Restart/Sleep. 2 seconds.

In contrast Windows 7 takes 3 steps which is ONE less step than Win 8. ONE. That is, drag mouse to lower left corner, click Start Button>Shutdown. It takes roughly the same amount of time. A tenth of a second or two shorter?

Guys. Seriously. If 2 seconds is too long to shut down your computer then... well I'm not sure what.

Mentor

laz45

Posted
Posted

Windows 7 is pretty good, pretty much never complained about it, but Windows 8 feels like I'm using a tablet and that's what i don't like. Big Buttons(ewwww) I bought 2 screens for space not to be filled with huge giant tablet like menus and icons. Metro should have stayed with tablets and phones possibly even laptops or desktops with touchscreens but not enforced on normal PC's. Will we get used to it? Sure, we always do, but I don't think it was the greatest idea for a normal non touch screen computers.

Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

Windows 7 is pretty good, pretty much never complained about it, but Windows 8 feels like I'm using a tablet and that's what i don't like. Big Buttons(ewwww) I bought 2 screens for space not to be filled with huge giant tablet like menus and icons. Metro should have stayed with tablets and phones possibly even laptops or desktops with touchscreens but not enforced on normal PC's. Will we get used to it? Sure, we always do, but I don't think it was the greatest idea for a normal non touch screen computers.

Click on the Desktop tile. You'll be sent to the desktop UI, which functions exactly like any previous version of Windows.

Veteran

sagum

Posted
Posted

Click on the Desktop tile. You'll be sent to the desktop UI, which functions exactly like any previous version of Windows.

With the exception of that you're no longer 1 one click away from, all your commonly used apps, important files/apps that you've pinned, your user, documents, pictures, music, games, your computer, access to the control panel,connected devices and printers, program defaults, full help and suport, full search of apps and documents files and the power controls options. This is even more impressive if you have them setup as menus rather then simple links. No only that, but it doesn't cover the entire screen so you can continue to monitor apps that you're working on, or even watching a youtube video for example.

I personally find it very awkward to switch between metro apps already, and there aren't even that many of them. I can imagin when the likes of Steam are released for metro, were you have a store and library it might be good, but for the most part like having chat windows open in steam etc its going to be a pain. going to the top left and having to wait for a second, then trying to depict what thumb nail icon is the correct one is annoying the hell out of me.

Not only that, but even the included apps such as mail, and messenger are total rubbish. I fully understand that its only a preview, but really? are they expecting people to want to use metro and get a feel for it if the most basic apps aren't amazing already? they provide less functionality then even the worst corporate webmail systems. No way to customise the font, and high contract colours they're using all over the place is really starting to give me headaches.

Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

With the exception of that you're no longer 1 one click away from, all your commonly used apps, important files/apps that you've pinned, your user, documents, pictures, music, games, your computer, access to the control panel,connected devices and printers, program defaults, full help and suport, full search of apps and documents files and the power controls options. This is even more impressive if you have them setup as menus rather then simple links. No only that, but it doesn't cover the entire screen so you can continue to monitor apps that you're working on, or even watching a youtube video for example.

You still use the mouse and navigate lists of shortcuts? Why, isn't that very...2001?

Control panel: Win + W, con > Enter.

Commonly used apps (i.e. word): Win, wor > Enter. Win, exc > Enter. Win, pai > Enter. Amazing, it works exactly like Vista and Windows 7.

Need to access Documents? Win, Documents > Enter.

Need to access Help and Support? Win, Hel > Enter.

If you're spending so much time digging around in the Start Menu that you'll miss more than five seconds of your favorite YouTube video, you're probably not using it (or the Start Screen) to its full potential, and I suppose that is entirely forgivable - Microsoft really hasn't gone the extra mile to teach people how to use all of the features of Search.

Enthusiast

Isaac Dontje Lindell

Posted
Posted

Anyone else having issues with a complete random lockup while using chrome? I installed 8 RP today and so far it's locked up 3 times, but it's a weird lockup, meaning it doesn't just freeze everything at once, first i'll notice i can't click on anything on the browser, then i won't be able to click on anything on the taskbar, then after about 2 minutes of movign my mouse around the screen, the cursor will finally dissapear and i can't ctrl alt del or anything, completely locked up and i have to manually restart.

I'm associating it with chrome cause it happened each time while chrome was running on the desktop, but i have no idea what is causing it.

I've been having the exact same issue. Sometimes I can go for almost an hour, but most of the time it does exactly what you describe within 15 minutes. I'm using IE10 for now, but I hope this gets fixed soon. Has anyone tried Firefox yet? I miss my AdBlock.

Enthusiast

TheJudge

Posted
Posted

does anyone here know how to upgrade from CP to RP without loosing all my apps, I don't wanna reinstall everything :( too many apps installed right now and it might take me days or even weeks to get everything back to the way it is.... any help is appreciated :)

Experienced

Wyn6

Posted
Posted

With the exception of that you're no longer 1 one click away from, all your commonly used apps, important files/apps that you've pinned, your user, documents, pictures, music, games, your computer, access to the control panel,connected devices and printers, program defaults, full help and suport, full search of apps and documents files and the power controls options. This is even more impressive if you have them setup as menus rather then simple links. No only that, but it doesn't cover the entire screen so you can continue to monitor apps that you're working on, or even watching a youtube video for example.

I personally find it very awkward to switch between metro apps already, and there aren't even that many of them. I can imagin when the likes of Steam are released for metro, were you have a store and library it might be good, but for the most part like having chat windows open in steam etc its going to be a pain. going to the top left and having to wait for a second, then trying to depict what thumb nail icon is the correct one is annoying the hell out of me.

Not only that, but even the included apps such as mail, and messenger are total rubbish. I fully understand that its only a preview, but really? are they expecting people to want to use metro and get a feel for it if the most basic apps aren't amazing already? they provide less functionality then even the worst corporate webmail systems. No way to customise the font, and high contract colours they're using all over the place is really starting to give me headaches.

Just one question. What operating system are you using? May I suggest downloading and installing the release preview Windows 8? Sarcasm aside... the Windows 8 I'm on right now is nothing like you describe above.

Collaborator

Subhadip

Posted
Posted

Now that there are some passable Metro apps, I am really starting to love the whole Metro UI and design philosophy. Of course, the live tiles have been covered in detail before and they are indeed very useful. But the presentation of the Metro content is very pleasant. There's no information overload, and scrolling sideways instead of downwards just makes so much sense, reminds me of books too. Of course, every app has (or rather should have) semantic zoom when you want an information dense view. Scaling is working very well indeed and fonts look great on a 13.3" 1920x1080 display even without ClearType. On a larger 22" display however, Cleartype or replacement thereof must be added back to Metro by RTM.

I have noticed that on Desktop I usually always full screen apps. The only times I resize / snap is when I don't want some minor app to take all my attention, but in that case it's a fairly tedious process to adjust and scale it according to the smaller window size. Metro Snap, however, is perfect for these types of apps. Stuff like Messenger or Music, love to snap those alongside other Metro apps or even the Desktop and seamlessly switching Snapped apps between monitors is great.

It takes a few minutes to an hour to undersand these concepts, but once you have grasped them it is a unique and consistent experience across all Metro apps. Sure, we will see productivity oriented Metro apps with denser interfaces after Windows 8 is on the market, but in general the key interactions - Search, Settings, Share are all in the same place.

System wide keyboard shortcuts work great, it is much easier and faster to navigate around Windows 8 than 7 with the keyboard. A major, major time saver is finding Files with Win+F, I rarely even open Explorer. However, what is missing is definition of keyboard shortcuts once inside Metro apps. I know there are shortcuts, e.g. Ctrl+N works as expected in Mail. But there must be some indication of these! Perhaps they can just use the old fashioned way, tapping Alt will reveal shortcuts.

Grand Master

Quillz

Posted
Posted

windows 8 is sexy but already a big fail!! without the simple start button makes this OS totally unfamiliar and a nightmare to use! bring back the darn start button! I will stick to windows 7 as the best OS ever created by MS

And back in 1995, everyone talked about what a huge failure Windows 95 was going to be because it was totally unfamiliar and a nightmare to use since they didn't bring back the darn Program and File Managers.

Rising Star

mduren2445

Posted
Posted

To me Win 8 is good to toy around with but not enough new features to rush out and pay$100+ when it comes out . I will be sticking with 7 when the RP finishes When I think of Win 8 flashes of win me and vista come to mind, the only way I might consider upgrading would be I got it for a damm good price or even free Guess I will have to wait till Win 9

Grand Master

ViperAFK

Posted
Posted

And back in 1995, everyone talked about what a huge failure Windows 95 was going to be because it was totally unfamiliar and a nightmare to use since they didn't bring back the darn Program and File Managers.

afiak, while there were complaints, win95 was actually received quite well on release.

The win7 start menu works better with a desktop keyboard/mouse setup than the current implementation of metro does. period. I'm perfectly open for metro if its improved, optimized for less awkward use with desktop systems, and more customizable, but currently it only seems to get in the way compared to the win7 start menu.

It could be better, but its definitely not there yet.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

afiak, while there were complaints, win95 was actually received quite well on release.

The win7 start menu works better with a desktop keyboard/mouse setup than the current implementation of metro does. period. I'm perfectly open for metro if its improved, optimized for less awkward use with desktop systems, and more customizable, but currently it only seems to get in the way compared to the win7 start menu.

It could be better, but its definitely not there yet.

It was well received by general public but "power users" hated losing program/file manager. We'll see how general public receives this in due time but right now a vocal minority of "power users" may cause problems because they will influence people around them with their undue bias. Windows 8 might face Vista's problems, which was perception of few idiots and had less to do with reality.

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted
Now that there are some passable Metro apps, I am really starting to love the whole Metro UI and design philosophy. Of course, the live tiles have been covered in detail before and they are indeed very useful. But the presentation of the Metro content is very pleasant. There's no information overload, and scrolling sideways instead of downwards just makes so much sense

The majority of Metro apps range between poor and appalling. More often than not the vast majority of the display goes unused, making the requirement to be run in fullscreen all the more frustrating. Those that do well tend to be those that don't have much in the way of content and present what they have in a pleasing way. Cocktail Flow is an example of an app done well and certainly I can see real potential for that style of app going forward but it provides completely different functionality to desktop apps. And I very much dislike apps that require me to scroll sideways when there is plenty of unused horizontal space - it is simply bad design.

I have noticed that on Desktop I usually always full screen apps. The only times I resize / snap is when I don't want some minor app to take all my attention, but in that case it's a fairly tedious process to adjust and scale it according to the smaller window size.

It depends on the resolution of your monitor. My primary display is 2560x1600 and I run the majority of apps either in windows of snapped to the side of the screen - that way I can have two separate websites open or have something like Word or Steam open. For productivity apps - like Cubase or Photoshop - it is more practical to run them in fullscreen mode to take advantage of the extra resolution. However, even when running apps maximised on the desktop you still have access to the taskbar which allows you to quickly switch between open apps; Metro's task switcher simply isn't comparable when used with a mouse (with touch you can simply swipe between apps).

It takes a few minutes to an hour to undersand these concepts, but once you have grasped them it is a unique and consistent experience across all Metro apps.

I've used Windows 8 for months and still find many aspects of it frustrating. For instance, Metro and Aero have completely different gestures for no good reason - why can't you drag a Metro app to the top of the screen to maximise it like with Aero Snap? Why can you close Metro apps by dragging them to the bottom of the screen but not do that with desktop apps? In fact, why do you need to perform such a gesture when simply clicking a 'close' button would be much more convenient and efficient? Why does clicking the network icon open a Metro style side window, yet clicking the action centre or volume control bring up and Aero based control? Why do you need to access the charm bar in order to shut down your computer? So while Metro might be consistent with itself it is completely inconsistent with the desktop, which is what most people are familiar with.

I like the Metro functionality. I like the desktop functionality. But there is simply no consistency between the two. That's not so much an issue for the start screen - which is simply a fullscreen replacement for the start menu - but it all falls apart when you try to run Metro apps and run them alongside desktop apps. The most frustrating example of this is when you launch a Metro app and snap it to the side of your monitor - the main part of the screen simply goes blank. It should display the desktop - and I could even understand it if the start screen was displayed - but it simply does nothing. That means lots of unnecessary clicking simply - once to get back to the start screen (hiding the app you just launched), then another to get to the desktop. I honestly don't understand how things like that can get past the design team, let alone the internal user testing.

The desktop is still where Windows 8 is the strongest. The improved file copying, task manager, Explorer, multi-monitor handling and features like cloud-based accounts and Storage Spaces - it's those that make the operating system. The start screen is divisive and has its issues but it finally takes advantage of the increased resolution of desktop monitors. But it's the implementation of Metro that causes all the issues. It looks like it will be great on tablets and I have no doubt that many apps will be a benefit to desktop users, but the way Metro and the desktop interacts is appalling (the hot-corners, side-snapping apps, the problems with multi-monitor support, etc). I find myself liking Windows 8 but deeply disliking the implementations of some features.

Collaborator

NeoandGeo

Posted
Posted

I've been having the exact same issue. Sometimes I can go for almost an hour, but most of the time it does exactly what you describe within 15 minutes. I'm using IE10 for now, but I hope this gets fixed soon. Has anyone tried Firefox yet? I miss my AdBlock.

I can use Chrome fine for hours, but IE10 doesn't even open for me anymore, and if I try to open it a few times I will eventually get a system lockup. I have tried resetting IE to default settings and uninstalling all browser addons, but I can only seem to open it once in every 100 times I try.

Grand Master

ViperAFK

Posted
Posted

The majority of Metro apps range between poor and appalling. More often than not the vast majority of the display goes unused, making the requirement to be run in fullscreen all the more frustrating. Those that do well tend to be those that don't have much in the way of content and present what they have in a pleasing way. Cocktail Flow is an example of an app done well and certainly I can see real potential for that style of app going forward but it provides completely different functionality to desktop apps. And I very much dislike apps that require me to scroll sideways when there is plenty of unused horizontal space - it is simply bad design.

It depends on the resolution of your monitor. My primary display is 2560x1600 and I run the majority of apps either in windows of snapped to the side of the screen - that way I can have two separate websites open or have something like Word or Steam open. For productivity apps - like Cubase or Photoshop - it is more practical to run them in fullscreen mode to take advantage of the extra resolution. However, even when running apps maximised on the desktop you still have access to the taskbar which allows you to quickly switch between open apps; Metro's task switcher simply isn't comparable when used with a mouse (with touch you can simply swipe between apps).

I've used Windows 8 for months and still find many aspects of it frustrating. For instance, Metro and Aero have completely different gestures for no good reason - why can't you drag a Metro app to the top of the screen to maximise it like with Aero Snap? Why can you close Metro apps by dragging them to the bottom of the screen but not do that with desktop apps? In fact, why do you need to perform such a gesture when simply clicking a 'close' button would be much more convenient and efficient? Why does clicking the network icon open a Metro style side window, yet clicking the action centre or volume control bring up and Aero based control? Why do you need to access the charm bar in order to shut down your computer? So while Metro might be consistent with itself it is completely inconsistent with the desktop, which is what most people are familiar with.

I like the Metro functionality. I like the desktop functionality. But there is simply no consistency between the two. That's not so much an issue for the start screen - which is simply a fullscreen replacement for the start menu - but it all falls apart when you try to run Metro apps and run them alongside desktop apps. The most frustrating example of this is when you launch a Metro app and snap it to the side of your monitor - the main part of the screen simply goes blank. It should display the desktop - and I could even understand it if the start screen was displayed - but it simply does nothing. That means lots of unnecessary clicking simply - once to get back to the start screen (hiding the app you just launched), then another to get to the desktop. I honestly don't understand how things like that can get past the design team, let alone the internal user testing.

The desktop is still where Windows 8 is the strongest. The improved file copying, task manager, Explorer, multi-monitor handling and features like cloud-based accounts and Storage Spaces - it's those that make the operating system. The start screen is divisive and has its issues but it finally takes advantage of the increased resolution of desktop monitors. But it's the implementation of Metro that causes all the issues. It looks like it will be great on tablets and I have no doubt that many apps will be a benefit to desktop users, but the way Metro and the desktop interacts is appalling (the hot-corners, side-snapping apps, the problems with multi-monitor support, etc). I find myself liking Windows 8 but deeply disliking the implementations of some features.

I agree, you explained it much better than I could :). I'm not opposed to the idea of metro and replacing the start menu with something better, but windows 8's implementation leaves so much to be desired. It honestly feels a little half-assed. The current metro apps look nice, but feel barren and useless, and currently the start screen seems to offer little functionality over the start menu (and in some cases worse functionality). It certainly has the potential to be far superior to the start menu concept, but needs significant polish. Windows 8 by itself isn't necessarily a bad operating system, but it just leaves me feeling like "Why the heck would I use this over windows 7?". The slight performance increases and classic desktop tweaks are good, but the rather poor implementation of metro leaves a lot to be desired, and can make windows 8 feel too inconsistent.

I'm generally quick to adapt to new interfaces and software. I got vista when it came out and liked it (after the driver issues were sorted out), got windows 7 on release and loved it. I've used UI's like gnome-shell and unity on my laptop and like them. Windows 8 just feels like lost potential.

Grand Master

jakem1

Posted
Posted

I agree, you explained it much better than I could :). I'm not opposed to the idea of metro and replacing the start menu with something better, but windows 8's implementation leaves so much to be desired. It honestly feels a little half-assed. The current metro apps look nice, but feel barren and useless, and currently the start screen seems to offer little functionality over the start menu (and in some cases worse functionality). It certainly has the potential to be far superior to the start menu concept, but needs significant polish. Windows 8 by itself isn't necessarily a bad operating system, but it just leaves me feeling like "Why the heck would I use this over windows 7?". The slight performance increases and classic desktop tweaks are good, but the rather poor implementation of metro leaves a lot to be desired, and can make windows 8 feel too inconsistent.

I'm generally quick to adapt to new interfaces and software. I got vista when it came out and liked it (after the driver issues were sorted out), got windows 7 on release and loved it. I've used UI's like gnome-shell and unity on my laptop and like them. Windows 8 just feels like lost potential.

I'm also hoping the core Metro apps receive a number of additional features and some polish before RTM. Apps like Mail, Calendar and Photos need to be solid performers and include at least the same features that exist in their equivalents in the Live Essentials suite.

Having said that, Microsoft usually don't provide more than a minimum set of features in their built-in applications so we shouldn't expect too much. While it would be nice to have, for instance, a first class mail app that does everything you could wish for it's probably good that they won't provide this and leave room for other developers to fill the gaps. As long as their apps do the minimum well and provide a showcase for how Metro-based apps should look and feel I'll be happy.

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