Windows 8 Release Preview Discussion

[George P Global Moderator]

Someone please tell me if there are any "hacks" that'll let me snap Metro apps against desktop apps. It was possible to do so in the Developer Preview, but I haven't found a way for the RP.

Wooo, calm down man. heh. First off do you have the needed resolution to enable snap? has to be 1366x768 or higher iirc. If you do have the res needed then after you open your desktop apps and the metro app you want to snap just bring up the new task switcher, use the mouse in the top left corner to bring up the preview then move down to bring up the rest. After it's up just right click on the app and you'll see the options to either close, snap left or snap right. Pick the one you want, then the metro app should be snapped left or right of the desktop, then just snap the desktop apps like you do on the desktop if you want.

[contextfree]

Microsoft has no idea of what they're doing. First, the Market would not accept non-Metro Apps. Now they say they will...

No, the store has always been planned to accept desktop app listings - that was announced back with the developer preview in September. It just hasn't been implemented until now.

[contextfree]

Hit the charm bar on the right and you can search the store, but I agree, there should be a search bar in the top right. It needs something a bit more obvious than having to resort to the global search in the charm.

That's strongly discouraged by the Metro style app design guidelines, though: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/windows/apps/hh465233

• 
  Don't add any UI controls for search in your app.
  Your app?s position in the list of apps in the search pane is determined by how often the user searches your app using the Search charm. As a result, adding an additional control for search in your app UI could actually make your app more difficult to search when your app is not the main app on screen, because it may not be as visible in the search pane's app list.
  Additionally, adding your own controls for search unnecessarily duplicates features and might confuse users. For example, one way that app-specific search UI might confuse users is by causing the user to have more than one search history with a particular app. One search history would be based on use of the Search charm (which is tracked and maintained by the system) and another, independent search history would be based on the use of the app-specific search UI
  

It would look pretty bad if Microsoft didn't follow their own design guidelines in the store ... :)

[George P Global Moderator]

No, the store has always been planned to accept desktop app listings - that was announced back with the developer preview in September. It just hasn't been implemented until now.

Yeah, seems people forget things quick nowadays. The store will list any desktop apps that devs want to list, the only difference is that it doesn't actually host and manage them. It's still good to help people find them instead of how it's always been, were you'd have to use some website and or find something you'd want through web searches. Once you find the desktop app you want it'll then redirect you to the app makers site so you can download it directly from them and MS doesn't charge anything for desktop apps (just metro apps though only up to the first $25,000? After that the dev keeps 100% of the money from sales).

[jakem1]

You should always be reminded of your signal strength as it is highly variable and online apps won't work depending on your signal strength.

No, I don't want to be constantly reminded of signal strength. If an app has trouble accessing the internet then I might want to know my signal strength but the rest of the time I'm not interested and it's taking up unnecessary space. This is not just theoretical, it's the way WP7 has worked since day 1 and it works well.

[Wyn6]

It is like having to swipe to be able to see objects that are farther away from my eyes' main focus.

Geez, you make it sound having to do a simple swipe is such a task.

Posted Today, 14:03

Luis Mazza, on 02 June 2012 - 10:57, said:

You should always be reminded of your signal strength as it is highly variable and online apps won't work depending on your signal strength.

No, I don't want to be constantly reminded of signal strength. If an app has trouble accessing the internet then I might want to know my signal strength but the rest of the time I'm not interested and it's taking up unnecessary space. This is not just theoretical, it's the way WP7 has worked since day 1 and it works well.

Remember, some people are steadfast in the ways things have been done. As an example, in the U.S. in the 80s car manufacturers started putting the automatic gearshift in the floor like manual shifters. There was a whole segment of people who complained about it, wrote letters to the makers and government about it, and plain wouldn't purchase a car that had an automatic gearshift in the floor instead of on the steering column. They had all sorts of misconceptions about it, one being, how's a third person supposed to sit in the middle if the shifter is there.

They had gotten use to large American cars with V8 engines and automatic shifters on the steering column. Shifters in the floor were the domain of dinky little foreign cars with 4 cylinder engines which, "no one wanted to buy."

There were a lot of illogical arguments against the new placement of the shifter and some logical. Eventually, people got used to it and adapted. Now, the steering column shifter exists mainly on passenger trucks and vans.

Sometimes it's really hard to move on from what you've known for so long or to believe there is a better way of doing something than the way you've always done it. Sometimes those ways are not better but different and work just as well. But, the old adage there is, why change then. Change is the only thing that's constant. We won't always like it or agree with it. But, we either adapt, remain stagnant or get left behind altogether.

*unintended diatribe

[George P Global Moderator]

I think swiping things will be less of an issue for laptop users once they get the updated drivers so they can use gestures on their trackpads etc. Once I can do the swipes using that instead of the mouse, though I don't have a problem using the mouse either, then it's not a problem on that type of device imo.

[drazgoosh]

Wooo, calm down man. heh. First off do you have the needed resolution to enable snap? has to be 1366x768 or higher iirc. If you do have the res needed then after you open your desktop apps and the metro app you want to snap just bring up the new task switcher, use the mouse in the top left corner to bring up the preview then move down to bring up the rest. After it's up just right click on the app and you'll see the options to either close, snap left or snap right. Pick the one you want, then the metro app should be snapped left or right of the desktop, then just snap the desktop apps like you do on the desktop if you want.

That's the problem. My resolution is below the minimum amount. In the DP and CP, there was a hack allowing you to snap Metro and Desktop apps even if you didn't have the right resolution.

http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/enable-windows-8-snap-feature-and-how-to-snap-metro-application/

[Luis Mazza]

Remember, some people are steadfast in the ways things have been done. As an example, in the U.S. in the 80s car manufacturers started putting the automatic gearshift in the floor like manual shifters. There was a whole segment of people who complained about it, wrote letters to the makers and government about it, and plain wouldn't purchase a car that had an automatic gearshift in the floor instead of on the steering column. They had all sorts of misconceptions about it, one being, how's a third person supposed to sit in the middle if the shifter is there.

They had gotten use to large American cars with V8 engines and automatic shifters on the steering column. Shifters in the floor were the domain of dinky little foreign cars with 4 cylinder engines which, "no one wanted to buy."

There were a lot of illogical arguments against the new placement of the shifter and some logical. Eventually, people got used to it and adapted. Now, the steering column shifter exists mainly on passenger trucks and vans.

Sometimes it's really hard to move on from what you've known for so long or to believe there is a better way of doing something than the way you've always done it. Sometimes those ways are not better but different and work just as well. But, the old adage there is, why change then. Change is the only thing that's constant. We won't always like it or agree with it. But, we either adapt, remain stagnant or get left behind altogether.

*unintended diatribe

Sure, because everyone else (Apple, Google, Samsung and so on...) is wrong and Microsoft is right.

It is a pity though, that sales of Windows Phone are not very encouraging to say that Microsoft is going in the right direction with Metro.

[jakem1]

Sure, because everyone else (Apple, Google, Samsung and so on...) is wrong and Microsoft is right.

Equally, just because the companies you listed have chosen to stick with a traditional design doesn't automatically mean that they're right and Microsoft is wrong. All that matters is that Microsoft have good reasons for wanting to remove unnecessary clutter from their UI and they've managed to do that without harming the user experience.

[Luis Mazza]

Equally, just because the companies you listed have chosen to stick with a traditional design doesn't automatically mean that they're right and Microsoft is wrong. All that matters is that Microsoft have good reasons for wanting to remove unnecessary clutter from their UI and they've managed to do that without harming the user experience.

Yes, they're not harming user experience, but certainly they're harming their sales, which is a delight to see. If you love Microsoft so much, you should buy their shares. In this case, for my delight.

[Wyn6]

Sure, because everyone else (Apple, Google, Samsung and so on...) is wrong and Microsoft is right.

It is a pity though, that sales of Windows Phone are not very encouraging to say that Microsoft is going in the right direction with Metro.

It's not a matter of who's right or wrong. Sometimes it's a matter of who's first, or who's better, or who has more capital. Ford and Chevy cars reigned supreme for many decades until they were finally overtaken by Toyota and Honda.

Let's look at the phone OSes shall we. Iphone debuted in '07 and was the first smartphone of its kind. It had a massive ad push behind it and soon saw a stratospherical rise with subsequent rise in its developer community and ecosystem. A year and a half later the first Android handset was released to little fanfare. It didn't set the world on fire. It wasn't until the Motorola "Droid" campaigns that Android took off.

Android rose to dominance for different reasons than the iphone. It wasn't because it was a great OS because truthfully it wasn't. It was because it was the only other smartphone alternative to the iphone. Were there other smartphones? Sure. But, this was "like the iphone". Which is what people asked for when they walked into non-At&t stores or what sales reps told them. However, Android phones were considerably cheaper. This is what led to its meteoric ascendance.

Essentially, the market now had the iphone which was the end-all-be-all of smartphones and its clone, Android. So, consumers had a choice to either keep up with the Joneses or be like the Smiths, who were the Joneses on a budget.

Two years after the first Android handset was released the first Windows Phone handsets were released in Oct/Nov of 2010. That's two years after Android and three years after iphone had built up massive followings and userbases. Windows Phone, while lauded by the tech press, was all but invisible to the general public. The "Really?" campaign while funny, was vague and unfocused. Not many actually knew a phone was being advertised. Consumer awareness stayed fairly low until 2012 and the release of the Lumia 900 and the "Beautifully different" and "Amazing Everyday" campaigns.

Windows Phone has since seen its global market share, as well as its US market share, creep up actually surpassing the iphone in some markets. I would say that that's encouraging indeed. As more and more consumers become aware of a third alternative, sales and thus market share will increase. Many non-geeks are frustrated with the Android user experience while the user experience for Windows Phone is extraordinarily high. Take, for example, the ratings for the major telecoms in most countries as well as retailers like Best Buy, and Amazon.

The difference in the UX between the two shouldn't be underestimated. As well as awareness of WP, it comes down to a matter of time. Will ICS (better UX than previous versions) be able to obtain and/or retain more users than WP8 will? WP8 will be out in a few months with a huge OEM/Operator push. On the other hand, ICS will be present on more handsets but still not the majority. And, let us not forget the iphone 5 looming on the horizon.

It's all about competition. Android will not retain its massive user base forever. Will WP8 or iphone5 be the cause of that decline? Perhaps. Or, perhaps something brand new will rise up. But, as more competition comes along and as more of the current competition gets better, it will certainly be difficult for Android to maintain its disparity in user base over the long run.

*edited chronology

[赛博朋克]

That's strongly discouraged by the Metro style app design guidelines, though: http://msdn.microsof...s/apps/hh465233

• Don't add any UI controls for search in your app.
  Your app?s position in the list of apps in the search pane is determined by how often the user searches your app using the Search charm. As a result, adding an additional control for search in your app UI could actually make your app more difficult to search when your app is not the main app on screen, because it may not be as visible in the search pane's app list.
  Additionally, adding your own controls for search unnecessarily duplicates features and might confuse users. For example, one way that app-specific search UI might confuse users is by causing the user to have more than one search history with a particular app. One search history would be based on use of the Search charm (which is tracked and maintained by the system) and another, independent search history would be based on the use of the app-specific search UI
  

It would look pretty bad if Microsoft didn't follow their own design guidelines in the store ... :)

This is one of the things I don't like (although I love Windows 8). The lack of universal search by default (local on a device), and those search guidelines. I saw a demo of the Bing metro app, and it's kind of stupid to run the app, then pull up the charms and search from there, because it doesn't have a search field in the middle of the screen. Why even have a search app then?

[0nyX]

That's the problem. My resolution is below the minimum amount. In the DP and CP, there was a hack allowing you to snap Metro and Desktop apps even if you didn't have the right resolution.

http://www.addictive...ro-application/

As far as i know this was only working on DP.It has been blocked since CP.

[Luis Mazza]

It's not a matter of who's right or wrong. Sometimes it's a matter of who's first, or who's better, or who has more capital. Ford and Chevy cars reigned supreme for many decades until they were finally overtaken by Toyota and Honda.

Let's look at the phone OSes shall we. Iphone debuted in '07 and was the first smartphone of its kind. It had a massive ad push behind it and soon saw a stratospherical rise with subsequent rise in its developer community and ecosystem. A year and a half later the first Android handset was released to little fanfare. It didn't set the world on fire. It wasn't until the Motorola "Droid" campaigns that Android took off.

Android rose to dominance for different reasons than the iphone. It wasn't because it was a great OS because truthfully it wasn't. It was because it was the only other smartphone alternative to the iphone. Were there other smartphones? Sure. But, this was "like the iphone". Which is what people asked for when they walked into non-At&t stores or what sales reps told them. However, Android phones were considerably cheaper. This is what led to its meteoric ascendance.

Essentially, the market now had the iphone which was the end-all-be-all of smartphones and its clone, Android. So, consumers had a choice to either keep up with the Joneses or be like the Smiths, who were the Joneses on a budget.

Four years after the first Android handset was released the first Windows Phone handsets were released in Oct/Nov of 2010. That's four years after Android and 5 years after iphone had built up massive followings and userbases. Windows Phone, while lauded by the tech press, was all but invisible to the general public. The "Really?" campaign while funny, was vague and unfocused. Not many actually knew a phone was being advertised. Consumer awareness stayed fairly low until 2012 and the release of the Lumia 900 and the "Beautifully different" and "Amazing Everyday" campaigns.

Windows Phone has since seen its global market share, as well as its US market share, creep up actually surpassing the iphone in some markets. I would say that that's encouraging indeed. As more and more consumers become aware of a third alternative, sales and thus market share will increase. Many non-geeks are frustrated with the Android user experience while the user experience for Windows Phone is extraordinarily high. Take, for example, the ratings for the major telecoms in most countries as well as retailers like Best Buy, and Amazon.

The difference in the UX between the two shouldn't be underestimated. As well as awareness of WP, it comes down to a matter of time. Will ICS (better UX than previous versions) be able to obtain and/or retain more users than WP8 will? WP8 will be out in a few months with a huge OEM/Operator push. On the other hand, ICS will be present on more handsets but still not the majority. And, let us not forget the iphone 5 looming on the horizon.

It's all about competition. Android will not retain its massive user base forever. Will WP8 or iphone5 be the cause of that decline? Perhaps. Or, perhaps something brand new will rise up. But, as more competition comes along and as more of the current competition gets better, it will certainly be difficult for Android to maintain its disparity in user base over the long run.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but you should also look at other possibilities. Rule number one of predictions is that past performance doesn't equal to future performance. That said, everything indeed can change.

Another point is regarding that little thing you said about "cheaper". Yes, Lumia 900 is more successful because it is cheaper than comparable competition. But Nokia is still reporting losses and about to sink. No money, no Windows Phone for Nokia.

Then we have other companies like HTC and Samsung with Windows Phone... No wait.... Not good sales there.

Anyway, smartphones like the iPhone will always sell. The caveat is: will sales result in profits? Now that is what defines a successul product or not. There's also another point called momentum. It is very important in a competitive market and Microsoft completely lost it and is trying to recover.

Microsoft's main business is selling software, which Google gives almost for free and Apple sells it with their own hardware.

Who's gonna win? Who's winning?

Microsoft won't survice because it is Microsoft. They survive if users want it to.

[scole]

Really, really, really, really blows that I cannot upgrade from Windows 8 CP to Windows 8 RP and retain my settings.

Therefore, I'll wait for RTM.

#BETAFAIL!

[Tech Star]

In apps I get the text cursor flashing, like something is trying to be typed, in the top left of the screen? Is this a bug? I saw it in CP also.

[jakem1]

Yes, they're not harming user experience, but certainly they're harming their sales, which is a delight to see. If you love Microsoft so much, you should buy their shares. In this case, for my delight.

What a miserable life you must live.

[dr_crabman]

What a miserable life you must live.

Obviously. You don't like something? Okay, let's talk about it. But the venom and hate some people like him constantly spew is baffling bordering on disgusting.

[Dot Matrix]

Really, really, really, really blows that I cannot upgrade from Windows 8 CP to Windows 8 RP and retain my settings.

Therefore, I'll wait for RTM.

#BETAFAIL!

You can't upgrade BETA software. Oh, the horror.

[divinatum]

Has anyone successfully installed Windows 8 on a Intel Atom N270 (1.6GHz)? I get an unsupported CPU error when running the setup assistant in W7

[Luis Mazza]

What a miserable life you must live.

I don't see fairies like you do, I must say.

This is all the result of a cold day with nothing else to do... I mean... The time I'm spending here, but certainly not the case regarding a miserable life. I've seen a lot and I love some evil irony. That's all.

[Jygoro]

The most annoying change is that the All Apps button (as show here) - which is still hidden behind a right-click - has now been moved to the far right of the screen. It makes absolutely no sense. You have to click the bottom left to trigger the Start screen, right-click and then drag your mouse all the way over to the right of your screen to click the button and then all the way back to the left to select a program. Honestly, Microsoft has actually managed to make the usability worse - it's as if they're trying to annoy users.

That's a wise move and I can see why they did. Most people with mouse will need it at the right especially if they use the start button in Charms bar. Also you should think in people who is using a tablet and now they can open All Apps with 3 fast moves with the right thumb.

[jakem1]

Obviously. You don't like something? Okay, let's talk about it. But the venom and hate some people like him constantly spew is baffling bordering on disgusting.

Agreed. It's also sad that all the Windows 8 threads end up being derailed by people like him.

[ArialBlue]

I noticed Anti-Malware Service eating up CPU and HD - went to services and disabled Windows Defender.

No idea what the hell it was doing - but I never gave it permission to do anything. :)