Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

[patseguin Global Moderator]

I'm not using RTM but every time I boot back into 7 I just want to get back to 8. I'm a fan of the start screen, just their choice in desktop UI design but I still think 8 is an improvement over 7. Linux will never be a viable option except for the very technically inclined and those that just browse the web and check email. I don't think we'll ever see mainstream gaming on Linux. I'd love to see it happen though because I'm a big fan of Linux and open source.

[aludanyi]

I just remembered... people hate the new GNOME as well... the reason is the same, it tries to replace the old desktop concept with a new one, a new one which is still largely in development and nobody actually knows how should it look like and how should it work before we actually get there... but the good thing is that everything what doesn't works as well as it should get replaced in the future, and the only way to get somewhere is to try out new things, new concepts and to learn in the process what work and what doesn't work.

?

I am sure that 80% of the things introduced in the new GNOME and Windows 8 are here to stay, and the remaining 20% which can be improved or replaced with something better right away will go away as soon as possible. Of course with time those 80% will be replaced as well, just not in the next 5 years but certainly in the next 50 or 500 ;)

[BajiRav]

No it doesn't. There's no start menu, the themes have been changed, and there are changes to explorer.

None of them actually make any changes to the way you use your stuff in Windows desktop on 7 or 8.

[SirEvan]

Win7 made me migrate to Mac OSX. I couldn't be happier.

Here's a cookie.

Off topic, but one thing I haven't been able to find out yet, where is the "run" bar? In xP-7, you had either the run bar, or you could click start->run to run a program. The only way i've found to do it now is to pull up task manager and select run from the menus. Also how do you get the control panel up, besides puling up a window and typing "control panel" in the address bar? those two things are what get me the most, other than that I'm liking server 2012/win8

[aludanyi]

As for the businesses upgrading to Windows 8.... many of them are still using XP, so they will upgrade because XP won't be capable to serve the new business requirements (to be honest it already can't)... and they will upgrade to Windows 8 not Windows 7, because there is nothing in Windows 8 to stop them using it productively (it's not XP vs. Vista this time).

Businesses using Windows 7 probably will wait for Windows vNext (9), but more than 50% are still using XP and they can't wait another 4 years to upgrade, so Windows 8 will be their natural choice.

[smooth_criminal1990]

Sounds like a disgruntled windows user. I heard 2013 will be the year of the Linux. See you there!

It probably will be, or at least more so than 2012, I've heard so many people saying they'll retreat to Linux because of Windows 8. I'll believe it when I see it though, whenever I see people raging at Windows and it's various faults, they always seem to roll over and keep using it rather than ditching it.

[srbeen]

Less than 10 minutes of use will NOT give you an accurate impression of the OS. And it's not the OS's fault that your return key stopped working.

I need to stop coming into these threads, just a bunch of whiners afraid of making the start menu full screen.

Its not the OS's fault that a reboot fixes the problem it exhibited? Im just saying after 10 minutes this is what the OS did to me. please fanboy. you should really stop coming to these threads. The OS is not BAD. Its just vastly different and not a change that is necessitated by current desktops/tablets. I figure once more apps are 'proper' for the OS and more touchscreen laptops make their way it'll all be good. The navigation is much more problematic and less fluid with a mouse than a touchscreen environment. that's what I keep telling myself. I have no idea how to get the addressbar up in IE10 for example.

[aludanyi]

@SirEvan

Just type "run" into the start screen... same for "control panel"... also, you can have all the apps listed on the start screen just as you had in the start menu... of course if you need something frequently, just pin it to the taskbar or start screen...

[Dot Matrix]

No it doesn't. There's no start menu, the themes have been changed, and there are changes to explorer.

So? Just because there's no Start Menu, doesn't mean I can't have multiple windows open, run legacy programs, or work like I would using Windows 7.

[smooth_criminal1990]

Here's a cookie.

Off topic, but one thing I haven't been able to find out yet, where is the "run" bar? In xP-7, you had either the run bar, or you could click start->run to run a program. The only way i've found to do it now is to pull up task manager and select run from the menus. Also how do you get the control panel up, besides puling up a window and typing "control panel" in the address bar? those two things are what get me the most, other than that I'm liking server 2012/win8

Windows key+R, or start and type "ru" and hit enter, or right click and pin it to the taskbar or start menu. Control panel, you can do the same as I have described: when you've searched, right click the icon and pin it. I'm probably missing stuff there, but hey, you could always use Windows key+W to bring up a search under settings related stuff, or use google and find sites like this: http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-tip-windows-key-shortcuts-140626

[BajiRav]

Here's a cookie.

Off topic, but one thing I haven't been able to find out yet, where is the "run" bar? In xP-7, you had either the run bar, or you could click start->run to run a program. The only way i've found to do it now is to pull up task manager and select run from the menus. Also how do you get the control panel up, besides puling up a window and typing "control panel" in the address bar? those two things are what get me the most, other than that I'm liking server 2012/win8

Winkey + run still works (unless you want a mouse alternative - read below)

Winkey + X or right click in the lower left corner will give you the faster link to control panel (unless you pin it obviously)

This "power user menu" also has shortcuts to many other stuff including Run.

In short,

Control Panel = Winkey + x + p or Right click in lower left

Run = Winkey + x + r orWinkey + r or Right click in lower left

[SirEvan]

@SirEvan

Just type "run" into the start screen... same for "control panel"... also, you can have all the apps listed on the start screen just as you had in the start menu... of course if you need something frequently, just pin it to the taskbar or start screen...

Windows key+R, or start and type "ru" and hit enter, or right click and pin it to the taskbar or start menu. Control panel, you can do the same as I have described: when you've searched, right click the icon and pin it. I'm probably missing stuff there, but hey, you could always use Windows key+W to bring up a search under settings related stuff, or use google and find sites like this: http://www.winsupers...hortcuts-140626

Ahh thanks guys. I figured there'd be something easy, but I've gotten used to the start menu and my hot keys are somewhat forgotten.

[Vice]

You're quick to slam Windows 8, but going by your post, you clearly have no idea what you're even talking about.

Time Machine? File History. Boom.

iCloud? SkyDrive + MicrosoftID. Boom.

iTunes? Xbox Music. Boom.

Any other features you care to slam without knowing what you're talking about?

I would argue they aren't competitive with iCloud iTunes or Time Machine because they are so inferior. Like comparing Notepad to Microsoft Office.

From what I can tell XBOX Music doesn't sell Movies or TV shows like iTunes does. Does it have any Airplay like capability?

What kind of integration does Sky Drive have with the Windows Calendar, Email? Does it sync notes? Does Windows even have Notes or Reminders?

And where is this Windows History thing you speak of? Where has Microsoft hidden this important feature. God this OS is so confused about what it is and overly complicated. How can they both make something so simple as the Metro interface (just a bunch of giant boxes) and at the same time manage to make important things like just backing up your files so difficult? I guess Microsoft finds a way.

Anyway apart from those points at the bottom of my post this OS is rubbish.

I upgraded to XP, Vista and 7 on Day 1. I liked them all. I run Windows Server 2008 R2 on my server currently and before that I ran Windows Server 2003. This is literally the first version of Windows that is so ****ty I won't be upgrading. That is really saying something considering I'm a computer enthusiast and have been using Windows on all my self builds since I began building.

[srbeen]

Ahh thanks guys. I figured there'd be something easy, but I've gotten used to the start menu and my hot keys are somewhat forgotten.

Seems that if you don't know the hot-keys your W8 experience is going to be even more problematic. IE10 you right click and go to the wrench and 'view on desktop' and everythings normal again. Seems like a lot of windows 8 features is disabling addons to make Windows 8 become Win 7.

[aludanyi]

The idea of a computer is to automate as much tasks/work as possible... not really possible in the desktop filled with million little icons and windows paradigm, when you actually trying to simulate your office (desktop) and using the computer as a tool, a computer is not a tool, it is a machine, a machine which CAN and should do many things without your help, so let it do it's job... I understand this is a new concept for many users, but this is where we should move, because the hardware is finally powerful enough to do this.

[KingCracker]

I don't mind windows 8. It does annoy me that I can't paste things into forum posts a lot of the time or that I never know what time it is because the clock is hidden all the time. Or that I have to switch to IE on the desktop to view flash video. If they fix these problems i'll be pretty happy with it.

[smooth_criminal1990]

Seems that if you don't know the hot-keys your W8 experience is going to be even more problematic

Not necessarily problematic, just clunky. I figure most people who will want to access stuff like Control Panel regularly will either figure out a way, or just Google it. It took me a few days of use and the video on "using Windows 8 like a power user" someone posted on the forums to be at maximum efficiency.

[redfish]

From what I can tell XBOX Music doesn't sell Movies or TV shows like iTunes does. Does it have any Airplay like capability?

You go to XBOX Video to get movies and TV shows. Airplay capability is available in W7 its there in W8 too.

What kind of integration does Sky Drive have with the Windows Calendar, Email? Does it sync notes? Does Windows even have Notes or Reminders?

Those are sync'd, but Sky Drive just refers to personal storage. You go to Outlook.com to see your calender, email, etc. Also, as far as I understand, any WinRT app sync's data with your Microsoft Account.

And where is this Windows History thing you speak of? Where has Microsoft hidden this important feature. God this OS is so confused about what it is and overly complicated. How can they both make something so simple as the Metro interface (just a bunch of giant boxes) and at the same time manage to make important things like just backing up your files so difficult? I guess Microsoft finds a way.

Its in Explorer, where the folders are, look on the ribbon. The reason its there is because you'll want to see the history for a particular folder or file, and you'll start from Explorer. That makes sense to me.

[BajiRav]

I would argue they aren't competitive with iCloud iTunes or Time Machine because they are so inferior. Like comparing Notepad to Microsoft Office.

From what I can tell XBOX Music doesn't sell Movies or TV shows like iTunes does. Does it have any Airplay like capability?

What kind of integration does Sky Drive have with the Windows Calendar, Email? Does it sync notes? Does Windows even have Notes or Reminders?

And where is this Windows History thing you speak of? Where has Microsoft hidden this important feature. God this OS is so confused about what it is and overly complicated. How can they both make something so simple as the Metro interface (just a bunch of giant boxes) and at the same time manage to make important things like just backing up your files so difficult? I guess Microsoft finds a way.

Anyway apart from those points at the bottom of my post this OS is rubbish.

I upgraded to XP, Vista and 7 on Day 1. I liked them all. I run Windows Server 2008 R2 on my server currently and before that I ran Windows Server 2003. This is literally the first version of Windows that is so ****ty I won't be upgrading. That is really saying something considering I'm a computer enthusiast and have been using Windows on all my self builds since I began building.

I am sorry but why does Windows 8 has to be like OS X? Besides that here is a list,

Xbox Music = iTunes music

Xbox Video = iTunes movies/music video etc.

Calendar/Mail/Messaging/Tasks etc. is all Hotmail/Outlook based.

File History is in control panel where it belongs.

It syncs a whole bunch of stuff across devices, a quick look under Settings would have told you this. But I guess you haven't used it.

AirPlay = PlayTo or DLNA support. I don't use AirPlay so not sure how it compares feature by feature but it's been in Windows since 7 but the support is much improved in this release (with matching update on the Xbox side). DLNA works with all devices including Android except obviously Apple who has gone their own way as usual.

You have lost all credibility in your posts about why Windows 8 is bad compared to XYZ. You apparently haven't bothered to either read about it or use it.

[Arceles]

Actually, I used RocketDock for quite a while at one point, so you should start thinking more logically :)

Really? that's the best you can come with? thinking more logically? seriously, you don't know who are speaking with and I will not tell you for the sake of not being an attention ###### :D, go on, continue thinking like that, makes me easy to deceive guys like you :p

[Quppa]

Windows 8 is just a start (and tablets has nothing to do with that), it is the first step toward replacing the outdated desktop/windows concept with a new modern UI. Don't get me wrong, the desktop/windows idea was a great thing back in 1980, when neither the hardware nor the software wasn't sophisticated enough for something better. Now this is 2012, the hardware are amazing and software could be much more powerful..., so why stick with an invention which was (great) for another time?

I think you've got the hardware bit around the wrong way. Modern/Metro-style/Windows 8-style apps are essentially full screen programs with low information density and very limited multi-tasking capabilities - moving from a complicated interface with overlapping windows and genuine multi-tasking is a nod to the additional (lower power) platforms that Windows 8 will target. Metro-style apps have their place (MetroTwit for Windows 8 is gorgeous), but I can't really see them as even a first step towards replacing the desktop UI on traditional machines.

[Calum Veteran]

Really? that's the best you can come with? thinking more logically? seriously, you don't know who are speaking with and I will not tell you for the sake of not being an attention ###### :D, go on, continue thinking like that, makes me easy to deceive guys like you :p

My post made sense. I could have explained to you why I believe Windows 8 is innovative, if I'd had more time, but I've offered that quite a few times in the past, in other threads, and that post of mine wasn't even attempting to refute your view that Windows 8 isn't innovative: My post was simply pointing out that your assumption isn't logical. Assuming that every single person who believes Windows 8 is innovative hasn't used third-party launching software before is a highly illogical assumption.

Not to mention, I proved you wrong: I believe Windows 8 is innovative, and I previously used RocketDock (among others) for quite a while.

[code65536]

Windows 8 is just a start (and tablets has nothing to do with that), it is the first step toward replacing the outdated desktop/windows concept with a new modern UI. Don't get me wrong, the desktop/windows idea was a great thing back in 1980, when neither the hardware nor the software wasn't sophisticated enough for something better. Now this is 2012, the hardware are amazing and software could be much more powerful..., so why stick with an invention which was (great) for another time?

This is absurd. Just because a concept is newer doesn't mean that it's better. The concept of the wheel dates back to time immemorial, yet you don't hear people saying that the wheel is an outdated concept, and good riddance if we got rid of it.

So why does a windowed concept make sense? Why have so many GUIs from Windows to OS/2 to Mac to XWindows used the windowed concept? Because it's a concept that is very well-suited to multitasking. To the quick and efficient switching between programs. To running multiple programs at the same time. To sharing and exchanging data between programs. None of these newfangled UIs (Android, iOS, Metro) are even remotely suitable to this. What they are suitable for are small form factors where you don't have a lot of screen space and where you have a finger for input.

Natural user interfaces are the future, and multitouch is just a little part of that paradigm. It will take some time to get used to it, but you can't and you shouldn't resist this change... it is like hating the car because you are used to a horse-drawn carriage and now you have to learn new stuff...

Again, this is absurd, and a false comparison. In the case of automobiles, the benefits (more compact, faster, no need to maintain and feed horses, no horsecrap on the streets) greatly outweighed the downsides (back in those days, there were virtually none, since oil was not yet in short supply and we were not yet suffering from increasingly chaotic weather patterns). In the case of touch, the balance between benefits and downsides is not clear-cut. Touch is compact, and the input device is already built into your body, so it's well-suited to phones and tablets. But the mouse and keyboard offer other benefits, like precision, context (a mouse pointer can have multiple states: not over a pixel, over a pixel with no button down, left-button, right-button, middle-button, but a finger has just two states: not over a pixel, or pressed over a pixel), and ergonomics.

Ever tried writing on a chalkboard for a while? Your arms get very sore. The idea ergonomic position is for the arms to be resting on the table, which a keyboard and mouse allows, but an upright touch interface does not. Okay, so lets lay the touch interface down on the table so that your arms could rest. But now you're using it like pen and paper, where you are bending your head down, and after a while, your neck is sore. This is why, ergonomically, the most comfortable position is for the visual output to be vertical, at eye level, and for the input to be horizontal, so that your arms can rest. This also means that in the optimal ergonomic position, you can't be looking at your input. Sounds like a job for keyboard/mouse to me.

And let's not forget all the benefits of a proper keyboard. There's a good reason why the mouse only augmented keyboard input, never replaced it.

Is there a place for multitouch? Sure, when compactness is important and you can't carry a mouse and keyboard around. But there are inherent, unavoidable downsides to it, and it is absolutely absurd to think that it could fully replace less "natural" input methods. Except in Hollywood movies and television, where everyday practicality takes a backseat to eye candy and visual "wow", but frankly, I don't think that Spielberg is a very good designer of actually usable user interfaces.

Hell, you could argue that your legs are "natural" transportation, and it has so many benefits, like, well, it's with you at all times. Let's get rid of this old and outdated concept of the wheel and just use our legs all the time!

One size does not fit all.

Anyway I see that most people don't even realize the real under the hub improvements in Windows 8, like for example the first step to leave Win32 API behind (this is another start) with a modern WinRT API.

There's the API. And then there's the execution of the code. Two very different things. They want to do a new API? Sure, whatever, as long as it's powerful. They want to eliminate natively-compiled code and all the efficiencies (and power) that it can bring in certain circumstances? That's foolish.

Improved security and programming models which will made possible an easy way to utilize the real power of the underlying hardware are also something we shouldn't ignore (multicore, asynchronous, etc...).

Judging from this comment, you're obviously not a programmer. No programming model changes the fact that the programmer still needs to do his legwork to make multithreading work properly.

Not to mention the new idea of "don't interrupt the user" with million stupid things like updates, notifications etc. (which was not a problem when there was only 2 things a week, but now when there is 20 things a day is stupid, annoying and ineffective).

That's great. But... um... how exactly is this related to Metro? Can't a simplification of notifications happen in the absence of Metro? Actually, it has. It used to be that many third-party programs will ask people to update, but since they've learned that many people don't bother to, they now use background services, so the update happens silently, without the user knowing. And, shockingly, this trend happened completely independently of Windows 8.

Another start is the accelerated journey toward the hyper-connected, service oriented, super opportunities generator known as the CLOUD

http://en.wikipedia..../Buzzword_bingo

[Arceles]

My post made sense. I could have explained to you why I believe Windows 8 is innovative, if I'd had more time, but I've offered that quite a few times in the past, in other threads, and that post of mine wasn't even attempting to refute your view that Windows 8 isn't innovative: My post was simply pointing out that your assumption isn't logical. Assuming that every single person who believes Windows 8 is innovative hasn't used third-party launching software before is a highly illogical assumption.

Not to mention, I proved you wrong: I believe Windows 8 is innovative, and I previously used RocketDock (among others) for quite a while.

And I explained a brief story of me and most of the windows oses that have been installed on my computers, with a few experiences and some innovations included, all of this for the sake of explaining my current experience with win8 rtm, Innovative? that's a veeeeery relative term, so much giant for the reality that actually is, the bigger they go, the deeper they fall.

[Calum Veteran]

And I explained a brief story of me and most of the windows oses that have been installed on my computers, with a few experiences and some innovations included, all of this for the sake of explaining my current experience with win8 rtm, Innovative? that's a veeeeery relative term, so much giant for the reality that actually is, the bigger they go, the deeper they fall.

As I mention, I wasn't attempting to dispute your claim that Windows 8 isn't innovative (although I do disagree with it) in that post. I was merely pointing out that assuming I haven't ever tried RocketDock for the reason I believe Windows 8 is innovative is illogical :)

Whether something is innovative or not could be subjective, too, by the way.