Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

[CentralDogma]

Exactly. Metro should have been part of Windows Phone and a Windows "Tablet" OS only. Obviously Microsoft could have brought some Metro influences over to Windows desktop, just like Apple did with OS X. The whole notion of having two completely different interfaces with each their own set of apps, meant for two vastly different input methods within one OS is just insane.

I don?t buy that, though. I don?t think a UI that services both is impossible. And I think that was clearly Microsoft?s inspiration for 8. You can see some of this in the Metro aesthetic being added to the desktop chrome and the adding of large buttons to Explorer. But it just seems like they were missing that critical Eureka moment that allowed them to do it.

Now, does this make Windows 8 bad because Microsoft failed to create a unified? Not necessarily. But it?s starting from a bad foundation if that was their end goal. So, when I hear about things like Metro apps living in a different state then their desktop counterparts (as with IE) and there being symmetric differences between Metro and desktop programs (as with control panel), it makes we wonder why Microsoft didn?t just include both UIs wholesale and save themselves the effort of trying to mix the two.

[Ice_Blue]

I have a question: is it possible to turn of the tiles/metro or whatever it is called and just use the regular desktop? I can see the benefits when using a tablet but it is not with a desktop.

Facepalm of the year award.

You come seven pages into a thread where people are bitching about not being able to bypass Metro, to ask this?

[Sarah Beland]

I've been using the OS for about a week and it's really solid. At first it's a little awkward, but after like five to ten minutes of figuring out everything it didn't take me long to get comfortable with the operating system. I currently have neowin open, editing in photoshop (creating gifs) and i'm using handbreak and i'm not having a problem managing any of it. I really like the Metro apps and I can't wait to see what will be developed when the OS goes live. I'm seriously thinking of picking up a Surface when they're released.

The only thing that annoys me is that the Zune software doesn't work with the OS. I can't upload songs to my Zune right now (have to use another computer).

Zune works for me. Do you mean marketplace is not working?

[.Neo]

I don?t buy that, though. I don?t think a UI that services both is impossible. And I think that was clearly Microsoft?s inspiration for 8. You can see some of this in the Metro aesthetic being added to the desktop chrome and the adding of large buttons to Explorer. But it just seems like they were missing that critical Eureka moment that allowed them to do it.

A few years from now when you look up the meaning of "half-assed" you'll be redirected to "Windows 8".

[notuptome2004]

Here is Blog post on multi monitor solutions

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/21/enhancing-windows-8-for-multiple-monitors.aspx

Multi-monitor taskbar

Of course the main reason most people use multi-monitor configurations is to be more productive. With the extra screen real estate you are able to see more windows up at the same time. The flip side to having more windows visible is that window management can become more challenging. In the desktop, the taskbar is the primary place for managing windows. As some of you pointed out to us in our Windows 7 blogs, lack of multi-monitor support for the taskbar is a gap. This can be summed up by one comment from the e7 blog:

@

AlexJerebtsov

, ?

The lack of multi-monitor [Taskbar] support is just about a crime?.

What?s interesting about adding multi-monitor support to the taskbar is that even among a relatively small group of users, there are several opinions as to what the ?right? design should be. As you can imagine, this is quite common in designing a new version of Windows?there are many points of view on how even relatively small things should be implemented. These are some observations from a variety of hands-on research methods:

• People tend to approach window management in either an organized or an ad-hoc fashion. People who manage windows in an ad-hoc fashion frequently move windows between monitors as their workflow requires, and do not keep track of what monitor a window is on. People that manage windows in a more organized fashion tend to designate specific monitors for specific apps and tasks (for example, email always on the left, the browser always on the right). There is not always a hard line between these two working styles and most people move windows in an ad-hoc fashion from time to time.
  
• Improved efficiency was consistently cited as a goal for the taskbar. Nearly all users conveyed the desire for improved taskbar efficiency. When we observed people using multiple monitors in their work, we noticed that the simple act of switching windows would sometimes require them to turn their heads, swivel in their seats, and reposition their mouse cursor as they jumped from a secondary monitor to the main taskbar monitor and all the way back again. Of course we also heard this articulated in term of mouse-efficiency. That is, we want to reduce the distance that you need to move the mouse to find and switch to a window on the taskbar.
  
• It is common for people to have a primary monitor. Many people have one monitor that they run most of their apps on, with a smaller secondary monitor that has a few windows open for peripheral tasks (for example, managing a playlist, sending IMs, playing a video). This is particularly true for users who have kept their old monitor on-hand after upgrading to a newer, bigger, higher-resolution monitor. Ad hoc users still move windows freely between monitors, but tend to prefer one over the other for the tasks that they are currently focusing on, partly because it is comfortable to set up a chair, keyboard, and mouse to face one monitor directly.
  
• Taskbar real estate is generally not a problem. When we designed the taskbar we were fairly confident that most people would find the default setting sufficient even with customization easy to find. Hands-on research confirms the majority of users keep the default setting where windows are grouped by app on the taskbar. Telemetry that looked at hundreds of millions of sessions further confirmed that only 6% of users ungroup taskbar buttons.
  

Multi-monitor taskbar options

Based on our field and lab observations we understood that people employ different window management techniques (always ad-hoc, always organized, mixed). For this reason, we chose to provide several multi-monitor taskbar options, so that advanced users with multiple monitors can still fine-tune their desktop experience.

Windows 8 taskbar properties

• Show taskbar buttons on the taskbar where the window is open. This is the most obvious option that comes to mind when thinking of a multi-monitor taskbar. In this configuration, each monitor?s taskbar contains icons for only the windows that are on that monitor. The advantage of this option is that it is simple and predictable. This tested well with people who were very organized in their placement of windows, or who had dedicated monitors for specific tasks. On the other hand, ad-hoc users found this design to be inefficient, as they needed to remember what monitor a particular window was on.
  

App buttons on the taskbar where the window is open

• Show taskbar buttons on main taskbar and taskbar where window is open. In this configuration, the main monitor has a special taskbar that contains all the windows across all monitors. All the other monitors have unique taskbars, as with the first option described above. This option offers some of the cleanliness of the taskbar where the window is open model, but also offers a consistent and efficient way to get to any window via the master taskbar. People who think in terms of a primary monitor will probably prefer this option.
  

App buttons on main taskbar and where window is open

• Show taskbar buttons on all taskbars (default). In this configuration, all windows are available on all taskbars. This configuration is designed for maximum mouse efficiency because you can always activate any window from any monitor. Of all the options, this works the best for ad-hoc windows management, as there is no need to keep track of where windows are located. While some users indicated a preference for one of the other options, this was the only option that was efficient for the vast majority of users, which is why this is the default setting.
  

App buttons on all taskbars (default option)

Some changes for the Release Preview

For those of you who have used the Consumer Preview on multiple monitors, you?ll notice that Start, the charms, and the clock are only shown on a single monitor. The feedback has been vocal and clear on this and of course, given the prevalence of multi-monitor setups even in our own hallways, we understood that this feature simply wasn?t complete. Looking forward, here?s a sneak peak at some of the improvements we?re making to multi-monitor usage for the Release Preview.

No broken corners and edges

On the Consumer Preview in a multi-monitor setup, it is difficult to find the Start screen and other UI that is invoked from the corners with a mouse, since those activation areas are only available on a single monitor. In the upcoming Release Preview, we are making all the corners and edges alive on all monitors. You can now bring up Start, the charms, and app switching from the corners of any monitor. Want Start on monitor 1? Just go to the bottom-left corner on that monitor. Want it on monitor 2? Go to the bottom-left corner on monitor 2. This not only improves discoverability, it also improves mouse efficiency and multitasking. To launch or move an app to a specific monitor, bring up Start on that monitor and launch the app, or switch to the app using the app switcher at the left edge.

You can launch Start on any monitor:

You can switch back to recently used apps from any monitor:

And you can bring up the charms on any monitor:

Launch and move Metro style apps to any monitor

There are several ways that you can launch and move an app:

• Start. You can bring up Start on any monitor by moving your mouse to the bottom-left corner, or via the Start charm that you can invoke from the top and bottom-right corners of any monitor. Pressing the Windows key launches Start on the last monitor where Start or a Metro style app appeared.
  

• Switch back to an app from any monitor. You can switch back to an app on any monitor by moving your mouse to the top-left corner. Clicking the app thumbnail switches you back to the app on that monitor.
  

• Keyboard shortcuts. We are introducing new keyboard shortcuts that build on the shortcuts from Windows 7. Win+Pg Up or Win+Pg Dn moves Metro style apps across monitors. Win+Arrow and Win+Shift+Arrow continue to work on desktop apps as they did in Windows 7, by snapping and moving desktop windows across monitors.
  

• Drag and drop. Using the mouse, you can now drag and drop Metro Style apps across monitors. Drag and drop works for both full screen and snapped apps.
  

Improved mouse targeting on the shared edge

A multi-monitor setup brings the major benefit of more real estate, but it also lacks the Fitts' Law benefits of hard edges and corners across displays. While it?s extremely easy to trigger corner UI such as Start, charms, or recently used apps on a single monitor, it isn?t uncommon to overshoot the mouse when the corner appears on a shared edge on a multi-monitor configuration.

With multiple monitors in fact, targeting the shared edge can be downright difficult. Move a few pixels too far and your cursor is suddenly on the wrong monitor. This has been a common challenge in previous versions of Windows as well, like when you?re trying to hit the close button or scroll bars on a maximized window on a shared edge. Many work around this by remembering to move the mouse slowly as it approaches a shared edge or by avoiding window layouts that bump up against those edges. We commonly observe this behavior in our own usage and in field studies.

In the Release Preview, we?re introducing an improved model for shared edges that makes it easier to target UI along a shared edge.

Since corners are even more important for Windows 8, we?ve created real corners along the shared edges to mimic the Fitts? Law advantages of a single monitor. The red corners in the diagram below demonstrate how these corners can help guide your mouse.

We?ve designed the corners to provide help when you need it and to get out of the way when you don?t. The protruding corner target is 6 pixels in height, which means that it is only noticeable when you?re trying to target the corner of the screen. Also, we?ve designed the corner to only work for the monitor your cursor is on. For example, leaving monitor 2 for monitor 1 in the diagram below, the bottom corner in monitor 1 will not interfere as you move your mouse across the shared edge.

Shared corner does not block cross monitor navigation

The shared corner isn?t just an improvement for the new Windows 8 UI, but it also makes it easier to target controls on the desktop likeClose and Show desktop. As a result, targeting shared corners is fast and fluid. First-hand experience is a must with this design, as you will notice this improvement right away when using the new Release Preview.

We recognize that a key value of using multiple monitors lies in the desire to increase multitasking. This is especially true of those of you who spend time arranging your desktop windows to maximize the available real estate across multiple displays. Speaking firsthand, most developers and testers at Microsoft have a multi-monitor setup in their offices, walking through the hallways one sees a wide range of monitor configurations from 2 to 4 or more monitors among the engineering team. This affords two important scenarios. First, developers can use a tool like Visual Studio on one screen and have the running/debugged program on another, or they can add an additional monitor and reserve it for side tasks such as email or web browsing.

With that in mind, we set out to achieve the following goals for those using multiple monitors with Windows 8:

• Make the desktop a more personal experience. Perhaps the most personalized feature on the desktop is the ability to customize the desktop background. We set out to make this a great experience on multiple monitors too.
  
• Improve the efficiency of accessing apps across monitors. In Windows 7, the top request from people using multiple monitors was to improve the taskbar efficiency.
  
• Improve the efficiency of accessing system UI. In Windows 7, you could only access the Start menu on one monitor. With the introduction in Windows 8 of new UI that puts controls at the edges of the screen, we wanted to make sure that it?s still easy to access Start, the charms, the clock, and your recently used apps from every monitor.
  
• Allow side-by-side Metro style and desktop apps. You can launch or move a Metro style app to any monitor, side-by-side with desktop apps on another screen.
  

Examples of multi-monitor configurations in Microsoft offices

[TruckWEB]

But you dont like Metro or the Metro apps, so why use them at all when you can use the desktop and achieve what you want? The desktop allows you to have as many windows open as you want, and with all your programs on the taskbar or the desktop is there really a problem?

Because now it's still possible to go hide in the desktop. But for how long? The more apps that get "Metrofied" the more were gonna stay with the limitation of the interface.

[Dot Matrix]

If you truly need the "full power of Windows" you'll have a proper desktop machine or a high-end notebook. Not simply a Surface.

Surface is going to be very useful for my schooling where I will be able to take advantage of Metro and desktop apps. It'll finally prevent me from having to utilize two devices.

[code65536]

Well the Start Menu dates back to the early 90's... time to move on. Should we be using floppies too?

The wheel dates back to time immemorial... time to move on. I hear that squares are better shapes than circles.

(If I got a nickel every time I hear this faulty argument that "new" is necessarily better and that "old" is necessarily worse without giving any consideration to the actual merits and disadvantages, I'd be rich.)

[Scorbing]

Not to mention all the default wallpapers are still only 1920 x 1200 (or 1920 x 1200 dual). My god Microsoft, it's 2012 for crying out loud. Is it really that hard to take into account some of us have displays with higher resolutions that that?

You can't even change the background wallpaper to a customized one on the Metro UI. What the hell is that all about? - LOL - Forcing the user to see those ugly backgrounds? - No way.

I'm keeping my Windows 7 until its death in 2020.

[code65536]

Power users are heavily offended by the existence of automatic, however, even though you could simply choose to use manual.

Power users are heavily offended by a car that always starts up in automatic mode even though you switch to manual every fracking time you use it and that abruptly switches into automatic mode at various times during the drive.

There, I fixed your analogy. You're welcome.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

are these Windows 8 haters the same people who complained about Vista?

[.Neo]

Surface is going to be very useful for my schooling where I will be able to take advantage of Metro and desktop apps. It'll finally prevent me from having to utilize two devices.

That's a different story. I just found it highly unlikely you'll be harnessing the "full power of Windows" on the hardware provided by a Surface.

[Noir Angel]

The themes don't actually change the way your desktop works.

Sure they do. They make my experience frustrating, and let's face it the visual themes enough are horrible enough to make me find it frustrating.

[.Neo]

Sure they do. They make my experience frustrating, and let's face it the visual themes enough are horrible enough to make me find it frustrating.

That still doesn't alter the actual workings of the desktop. Merely the experience. You're confusing one with the other.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

I have no complaints about the visual theme.

[Scorbing]

I have no complaints about the visual theme.

You don't know...but will later. I promise you.

[FRaNTiC]

Oh my God you have to right click instead of left??? Oh the drama and the horror your life is so hard!

Just be glad they added it in there (wasn't there in Dev preview)

Yes there are, they're called the "corner of your screen". If you can't figure that out, well, good luck using any computer.

Again, it sounds like a lot of user error and people not wanting to change. Fine. Stick with Windows 7 and stop moaning while the rest of us move into the next generation.

*clap clap

So annoying,

U can?t minimize in win8!

Yes u can, u can?t minimize just metro apps, but u can do something better, u can snap them.

Whatever, nobody likes win8, check out the forums.

U can?t scroll in win8!

Yes u can.

I was talking about metro, u can only scroll left and right

Because there?s nothing up and down?

Whatever, I don?t like win8, and everyone agrees with me!

Seriously, all this win8 hate have been just surreal. Its like all the sudden I was transported to another dimension where 99% of the people didn't used the desktop or third party apps to organize shortcuts because the start menu sucked so bad. I honesty would love someone to first, explain why there are apps like objectdock, rocketdock, fences etc? if the start menu is so great? And then do an in depth description of their use of the start menu. Really curious to know what the fuss is all about.

Are people really trying to sell that, moving your cursor precisely within a circle, click, navigate to all programs, click, navigate to the folder of the shortcut, click and click again on the shortcut is better than move your cursor anywhere in bottom left corner, scroll left and click? lol really?

U point out the greatness of the search in win8, and u get ?guess what in win7 you don?t need to use the keyboard!!? So at which point do people start using the kb? Do people use the mouse to write in word? So if I press the key w in the metro and then click on the shortcut, I?m losing productivity? Am I losing productivity by pressing ?r? and then clicking the shortcut compared to navigate to all programs, click, navigate to accessories, click and finally clicking on remote desktop? Really?

Don?t really like the search? Don't worry, Metro allows u to pin your favorites shortcuts in a much bigger functioning amount compared to the start menu, period!

Win8 boot faster on a 5400rpm drive vs win7 on a ssd, period!

Win8 is way more responsive than win7 within the same hardware resources, period!

And guess what? it even have some cool metro apps? I?m loving the remote desktop metro app.

So yeah people keep whining while the rest of the world moves forward.

[Woelfel]

*clap clap

So annoying,

U can?t minimize in win8!

Yes u can, u can?t minimize just metro apps, but u can do something better, u can snap them.

Whatever, nobody likes win8, check out the forums.

U can?t scroll in win8!

Yes u can.

I was talking about metro, u can only scroll left and right

Because there?s nothing up and down?

Whatever, I don?t like win8, and everyone agrees with me!

Seriously, all this win8 hate have been just surreal. Its like all the sudden I was transported to another dimension where 99% of the people didn't used the desktop or third party apps to organize shortcuts because the start menu sucked so bad. I honesty would love someone to first, explain why there are apps like objectdock, rocketdock, fences etc? if the start menu is so great? And then do an in depth description of their use of the start menu. Really curious to know what the fuss is all about.

Are people really trying to sell that, moving your cursor precisely within a circle, click, navigate to all programs, click, navigate to the folder of the shortcut, click and click again on the shortcut is better than move your cursor anywhere in bottom left corner, scroll left and click? lol really?

U point out the greatness of the search in win8, and u get ?guess what in win7 you don?t need to use the keyboard!!? So at which point do people start using the kb? Do people use the mouse to write in word? So if I press the key w in the metro and then click on the shortcut, I?m losing productivity? Am I losing productivity by pressing ?r? and then clicking the shortcut compared to navigate to all programs, click, navigate to accessories, click and finally clicking on remote desktop? Really?

Don?t really like the search? Don't worry, Metro allows u to pin your favorites shortcuts in a much bigger functioning amount compared to the start menu, period!

Win8 boot faster on a 5400rpm drive vs win7 on a ssd, period!

Win8 is way more responsive than win7 within the same hardware resources, period!

And guess what? it even have some cool metro apps? I?m loving the remote desktop metro app.

So yeah people keep whining while the rest of the world moves forward.

[ahhell]

That's a different story. I just found it highly unlikely you'll be harnessing the "full power of Windows" on the hardware provided by a Surface.

Nice. So now you're an expert on Surface. A device that NO ONE outside of Microsoft HAS USED YET.

[kaotic]

Zune works for me. Do you mean marketplace is not working?

No. The Zune software crashes as soon as I start it. http://i.imgur.com/NkSgd.jpg

[registradus]

There is ZERO reason NOT to upgrade to Windows 8. The OS is just as easy to navigate as Windows 7 and in some cases easier. Plus all my app's and games run great and most open and run better than Windows 7. Booting and Shutdown times are faster than Windows 7. In short it is a great OS. With any luck Microsoft will be able to stop all of the Start Menu hacks from running at all as they just are not needed at all and will screw up the great design of the UI.

What games are you playing? I tried Diablo III and LA Noire and a couple of others and they all crashed. Was using the AMD Catalyst release preview driver, but it may have been my soundcard that was the problem...

No. The Zune software crashes as soon as I start it. http://i.imgur.com/NkSgd.jpg

Also felt weird using Zune on Windows 8 to sync my phone. Will be interesting to see what the new version looks like

Zune works for me. Do you mean marketplace is not working?

Are you referring to Zune software or hardware?

[n_K]

Nice. So now you're an expert on Surface. A device that NO ONE outside of Microsoft HAS USED YET.

Really? They had it on show somewhere, neowin had pics of them on show even, so err....

[Keyboard Cowboy]

*clap clap

So annoying,

U can?t minimize in win8!

Yes u can, u can?t minimize just metro apps, but u can do something better, u can snap them.

Whatever, nobody likes win8, check out the forums.

U can?t scroll in win8!

Yes u can.

I was talking about metro, u can only scroll left and right

Because there?s nothing up and down?

Whatever, I don?t like win8, and everyone agrees with me!

Seriously, all this win8 hate have been just surreal. Its like all the sudden I was transported to another dimension where 99% of the people didn't used the desktop or third party apps to organize shortcuts because the start menu sucked so bad. I honesty would love someone to first, explain why there are apps like objectdock, rocketdock, fences etc? if the start menu is so great? And then do an in depth description of their use of the start menu. Really curious to know what the fuss is all about.

Are people really trying to sell that, moving your cursor precisely within a circle, click, navigate to all programs, click, navigate to the folder of the shortcut, click and click again on the shortcut is better than move your cursor anywhere in bottom left corner, scroll left and click? lol really?

U point out the greatness of the search in win8, and u get ?guess what in win7 you don?t need to use the keyboard!!? So at which point do people start using the kb? Do people use the mouse to write in word? So if I press the key w in the metro and then click on the shortcut, I?m losing productivity? Am I losing productivity by pressing ?r? and then clicking the shortcut compared to navigate to all programs, click, navigate to accessories, click and finally clicking on remote desktop? Really?

Don?t really like the search? Don't worry, Metro allows u to pin your favorites shortcuts in a much bigger functioning amount compared to the start menu, period!

Win8 boot faster on a 5400rpm drive vs win7 on a ssd, period!

Win8 is way more responsive than win7 within the same hardware resources, period!

And guess what? it even have some cool metro apps? I?m loving the remote desktop metro app.

So yeah people keep whining while the rest of the world moves forward.

What this guy said...

[PGHammer]

That's a different story. I just found it highly unlikely you'll be harnessing the "full power of Windows" on the hardware provided by a Surface.

You are thinking in terms of Surface RT - not Surface Pro (which is basically a Microsoft-branded version of an Ultrabook-based tablet or slate).

Purism is great for niches; not for a general-purpose (let alone multipurpose) operating system.

[PGHammer]

What games are you playing? I tried Diablo III and LA Noire and a couple of others and they all crashed. Was using the AMD Catalyst release preview driver, but it may have been my soundcard that was the problem...

Also felt weird using Zune on Windows 8 to sync my phone. Will be interesting to see what the new version looks like

Are you referring to Zune software or hardware?

Oh? And how long ago did you try Diablo III? If you waited until the Release Preview *and* used the Consumer Preview drivers with it, I can understand your anger; the Catalyst Preview drivers for the RP were late. On the other hand, I ran the open beta of Diablo III on the Consumer Preview with the CP drivers. I ran the Starter Edition the first week it became available (same edition of Windows 8 and same drivers) - no issues then, either. In fact, I haven't run Diablo III on Windows 7 at all. Out of all my games (including the betas I've been in so far) only TERA Online refused to run at all (that problem is fixed in the RTM code). The issue with DX11 in Crysis 2 is, in fact, unique to the Previews of Windows 8; the RTM code has no issues with Crysis 2. Basically, I don't even have a quibble left as far as Windows 8 and gaming. (Guild Wars 2? I was in the first BWE and the last BWE - and entirely on Windows 8 in both; no 7 usage. Also, no issues, either.)