Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

[Dot Matrix]

And that is fine. But those of us that have learned all these shortcuts and prefer the start menu enough to where it becomes a habit (I do not want to say "Oh wait, I am on Windows 8 nevermind" every time I want to do something), we are simply treated as either Whiners or people who cannot accept change.

So since we do not blindly upgrade to the latest OS, even if it makes our life much more difficult with the way we use the OS today, we are called whiners and cannot accept change.

It is really irritating.

If the start menu was so horrible technically, why don't they remove it from Windows 7 with a patch/service pack? It does not make any sense why they would all of the sudden say "OMG Start Menu has been SOOOOO HORRIBLE since Windows 95 and we should not include it ANY MORE". The reason the removed it was not for technical reasons, it was so people are forced to use the start screen. If you cannot see that, then I do not know what to say. Why wasn't it removed in Windows 7? Why are people now saying the start menu has been horrible since Windows 95?

Microsoft could have fixed it but instead they completely removed it. And the only reason for doing so is to force people to use the Start Screen.

"But those of us that have learned all these shortcuts and prefer the start menu enough to where it becomes a habit..."

Lol, wut? You mean like every other Windows user out there? ALL of us learned the Start Menu, ALL of us used the thing. We ALL made habits out of it. But things change. If you have used the menu as intended in Windows 7 - pinning apps and searching - the Start Screen is no different. You pin apps and use Search. So, why do you make it out to be something completely different?

The Start Menu was removed because it didn't support the enhancements in Windows 8. Removing it from Windows 7 is a silly argument, however, you won't be seeing it going forward. So, in a sense they did "fix it". It was upgraded to become the Dashboard. But if you want to argue about it, yes, the Start Menu was access baggage that was left to rot. There was no denying that the Menu was in need of a purge, but at the same time, there was no way to keep it around.

[Woelfel]

If the start menu was so horrible technically, why don't they remove it from Windows 7 with a patch/service pack?

Because they didn't have something to replace it with that made sense at the time and with the time they had left, didn't have time to implement it correctly.

[Joni_78]

You can still hit F8 at start-up to access the boot menu. You just get less time to do it (like 200ms on optimal hardware).

On RTM? Or are you talking about your BIOS boot menu that lets you choose the drive, that is F8.

On W8 CP, Windows boot menu (with safe mode options) was changed to SHIFT+F8 but that doesn't seem to work on RTM anymore. Also dunno if it's possible to get W7 boot loader if you dual boot.

Atleast in here, no dual boot, RTM, nothing happens when I smash F8 or SHIFT+F8 on startup all the way to Windows logo.

[WinMunkee]

And that is fine. But those of us that have learned all these shortcuts and prefer the start menu enough to where it becomes a habit (I do not want to say "Oh wait, I am on Windows 8 nevermind" every time I want to do something because I have done these things thousands of times to where I do not need to think anymore. With Windows 8, I need to change the way I do things and it causes me to be less productive. Like my PC Control panel issue, it is not the fact that you need to right click instead of left click now. The issue is that it is different enough to break my workflow. When I am on Windows 8, and I want to go to Start - Control Panel, a few seconds later I say "Oh wait I am on Windows 8". That few seconds adds up), we are simply treated as either Whiners or people who cannot accept change.

So since we do not blindly upgrade to the latest OS, even if it makes our life much more difficult with the way we use the OS today, we are called whiners and cannot accept change.

It is really irritating.

If the start menu was so horrible technically, why don't they remove it from Windows 7 with a patch/service pack? It does not make any sense why they would all of the sudden say "OMG Start Menu has been SOOOOO HORRIBLE since Windows 95 and we should not include it ANY MORE". The reason the removed it was not for technical reasons, it was so people are forced to use the start screen. If you cannot see that, then I do not know what to say. Why wasn't it removed in Windows 7? Why are people now saying the start menu has been horrible since Windows 95?

Microsoft could have fixed it but instead they completely removed it. And the only reason for doing so is to force people to use the Start Screen.

Like what though? All those shortcuts are still there, give or take a little bit of reorganization. I feel the flow is a lot better, especially when searching. Instead of getting a whole mess of results, it's separated by Apps, Settings and Files which adds a bit of organization. I honestly can't believe you have that hard of a time transitioning from a right and left click, you seem like an intelligent person and little quirks like this should be easy to get used to as I'm sure you've seen this. Sure it's a little irritating having to learn new things at first, but once you spend some time using the OS and developing your work flow things become second nature, as you are implying they are with Windows 7. But a lot of Windows 7 innovations started with Windows Vista, which was a semi-dramatic change from Windows XP, especially in the Control Panel, Network and Sharing Center, and System Settings window. I think people also complained about that as well.

Now that little menu in the bottom left actually directs you to your most used settings, which in my mind relieves the amount of time you spend searching through menus and finding the icon you most cherish. Then if you think about Windows 9, what happens then? It's only going to be a continuation of Windows 8, so not getting used to something new would leave you somewhat in the dust.

The new start screen is a fantastic tool if you set it up to your liking. No Windows machine to this date, has come with MY start menu. I've always had to customize it to fit my work flow. The same goes for the start screen. But one of my favorite features of this new start screen is the fact that it can appear on ANY screen. Same thing goes with that shortcut menu. So if I'm in the middle of something on screen 3, I have 3 options to go to the start screen. Win-key, Win+C, or click the lower left corner of the screen. I don't have to set a single screen as my main screen to get to it, it's just there. Throw in the multiple taskbars, and then you have an even more powerful workhorse.

So instead of finding all these reasons to dislike the change, embrace it and see how it works for you.

[heyitsheather]

Overall I've become a fan of Windows 8, had my issues with the various previou releases as everyone else did but making myself stick with it and learn how it works, where things went, etc I came to actually embrace it, especially the improved performance on my laptop with startup times, a huge improvement over 7, which previously I didn't have many complaints about.

I won't be making the jump to RTM when it is released, though not because I don't like the OS, I really do. My issue I think is more hardware related. I've recently started playing Dragon Age: Origins again and while it does run great on Windows 8, it unlike on 7 causes my laptop to overheat and shut down during intense situations like huge battles with lots of spells and such flying about. I don't blame this on 8 though, my laptop is running a Radeon Mobility 4200 HD IGP (yes, please feel free to groan) which AMD does not offer Win 8 drivers for, at lease for the release previews and I don't expect them for RTM either as the latest drivers are now entitled "legacy".

The drivers can be shoe horned in of course and work but I've found that running this game with the Catalyst 12.6's and Windows 8 causes it to choke, over heat and shut down where as with the same config it doesn't during 7, so for now, at least until I'm done with the current run through of the game I'm back to 7.

I'm hoping to replace the laptop at some point next year and will be happy to take Windows 8 on it then.

[Joni_78]

All these whiners. Windows 8 is fantastic and has simplified my work flow as a professional graphics and web designer.

Please, I would be interested to know how it simplifies your graphic and web design workflow?

[WinMunkee]

Please, I would be interested to know how it simplifies your graphic and web design workflow?

It's somewhat implied in the statements I made before nhjay's comments. A lot of those features help me overall especially the new multiscreen support. Instead of being limited by a single centralized location to access my taskbar, start screen, and power user menu. It quickens up my pace by allowing them all on all screens.. Then by customizing my pinned folders in both my Windows Explorer and my start screen this allows me to access folders faster. From there on the start screen I can separate folder shortcuts by project which allows me to access my files in an organized manner. I can also rearrange sections depending on what I'm working on so when I hit the windows key I can just get to what I need immediately. This also clears up my desktop and makes the overall process of getting things done less overwhelming.

[giantpotato]

It's the F8 at startup to access the boot menu that is the crucial part. As long as that's still available, I'm happy. Thanks for confirming that. :)

I could be wrong here, but at least on UEFI systems, I don't think the classic black/white boot menu shows up anymore. On my UEFI laptop, Windows 8 replaces it with its own graphical boot menu.

[chrisl]

I've been using the release preview since it was released and not had any issues, I find the new start screen is easier to use than the start menu.

If you don't like the metro modern UI all you have to do is unpin/uninstall all the apps (if you really want to), then the only time you need to use the modern UI is in the start screen which will have all the desktop programs, if you really want to keep away from this you can use the taskbar (the modern UI may appear sometimes - when you need to connect to a VPN for example). The only time you'll see the start screen is when you restart, which in my experience so far isn't very often.

Also liking the new visual style, much improved over aero - it looks a lot lighter somehow.

[BajiRav]

If you know better, why don't you actually post useful information instead of a lame facepalm pic, hmm? I genuinely want to know if you can still access the normal boot menu without first having to get into Windows in the first place.

I think F8 and Ctrl still work, that UI is only needed for interrupting fast boot where you can't press the key in time. If they removed those keys, this is still present.

I guess the multi-step metro UI makes sense, it is mostly for troubleshooting and assumes things don't go wrong.

[Joni_78]

It's somewhat implied in the statements I made before nhjay's comments. A lot of those features help me overall especially the new multiscreen support. Instead of being limited by a single centralized location to access my taskbar, start screen, and power user menu. It quickens up my pace by allowing them all on all screens.. Then by customizing my pinned folders in both my Windows Explorer and my start screen this allows me to access folders faster. From there on the start screen I can separate folder shortcuts by project which allows me to access my files in an organized manner. I can also rearrange sections depending on what I'm working on so when I hit the windows key I can just get to what I need immediately. This also clears up my desktop and makes the overall process of getting things done less overwhelming.

I've never thought about this, sounds much easier.

[ATLien_0]

I guess Im still puzzled on what on the fuss is, Microsoft had mentioned long ago that they were looking at getting rid of the start menu, well the finally did. Maybe Im one of the few, but I felt that the start menu was a little redundant in Windows 7. I was able to in Windows 7 pin all my most used apps on the taskbar, the sidebar on the start panel was for my secondary apps. I can't recall a time in the past few years I have had to use the all programs menu. In Windows 8 I am able to do the exact same thing, most used apps on the taskbar still. I guess I also look at the fact that Windows 7 was and will be the last full desktop centered OS, face it people we on here may be power users, but Microsoft and Apple as well are predicting a huge shift in Tablet usage as the next great thing. I just come to think of any major improvements other than ribbon that Microsoft would have been able to introduce to Windows 8 had it been made as a desktop OS.

[JeffG]

You know Windows 8 is the best OS ever. It technologically a step towards the future and when you finally get rid of the crappy desktop it will be even faster and better I don't understand why Microsoft did go all the way and get read of the desktop that my biggest draw back. I think it goes to show that Microsoft innovates far past APPLE and GOOGLE who stuck giving you crappy old technology and force you to used it I would not pay two cents for Mountain Lion there no compelling reason to buy. And GOOGLE Makes crap that never works right and is outdated technology. I hope that Microsoft get to Window 9 fast I'm already bored with 8.

[Active.]

finally get rid of the crappy desktop

The crappy desktop? Windows was nothing but the desktop all these years. So has Windows been a crappy OS?

I'm already bored with 8.

That was fast.

[WinMunkee]

I've never thought about this, sounds much easier.

It is, sometimes you just have to think about how you can tailor it to your needs to make it that way. I can understand how some peoples lack of knowledge in the OS can be a bit overwhelming at first, it does take a little getting used to, to find your own rhythm

[Bubbabyte]

I've been using win8 RC as well and i've grown to really love it.. sure there is a massive learning curve, but you are tech savvy at all it shouldn't be an issue. I love the fact that everything seems to mesh and is connected in some way or another.. messages/facebook im... calendar/facebook birthdays etc.

[badall]

I tried using windows 8 DP & CP for a couple days each and the new UI puts me off every time I just can not use it with a mouse and keybaord. The changes under the hood like memory and power managment are brilliant and are the sort of changes windows has needed for years. It's a shame they didn't give us a choice of UI like you can in linux because a win 7 UI with whats under the hood of win 8 can only be winner as far as i am concerned.

PS Yes i would use Linux instead but game compatability and a couple other issues stop me switching permanantly

[BajiRav]

The crappy desktop? Windows was nothing but the desktop all these years. So has Windows been a crappy OS?

That was fast.

I like how reactions are completely extreme :rofl:. It's either Desktop/start-menu is old paradigm and I need only METRO or I don't want no ****ing metro on my desktop!

This is turning out like the two-horse USA election this year.

Obama/pro-metro: Change is good, Hope for metro to take over and replace desktop!!!

Romney/ant-metro: No regulation(s), I don't want Microsoft telling me how to use my PC!!!

whatever happened to the middle ground! :laugh:

[.Neo]

I think it goes to show that Microsoft innovates far past APPLE and GOOGLE who stuck giving you crappy old technology [...]

Is that why Windows is filled with legacy interface elements? Because it's all so new?

[abysal]

I like how reactions are completely extreme :rofl:. It's either Desktop/start-menu is old paradigm and I need only METRO or I don't want no ****ing metro on my desktop!

This is turning out like the two-horse USA election this year.

Obama/pro-metro: Change is good, Hope for metro to take over and replace desktop!!!

Romney/ant-metro: No regulation(s), I don't want Microsoft telling me how to use my PC!!!

whatever happened to the middle ground! :laugh:

There are plenty of us that wanted a compromise between both UI models. I outlined several ways a compromise could of been achieved :/

Is that why Windows is filled with legacy interface elements? Because it's all so new?

I think this dude was just trolling. That whole paragraph is sarcastic imo.

[WinMunkee]

I tried using windows 8 DP & CP for a couple days each and the new UI puts me off every time I just can not use it with a mouse and keybaord. The changes under the hood like memory and power managment are brilliant and are the sort of changes windows has needed for years. It's a shame they didn't give us a choice of UI like you can in linux because a win 7 UI with whats under the hood of win 8 can only be winner as far as i am concerned.

PS Yes i would use Linux instead but game compatability and a couple other issues stop me switching permanantly

I've been using it for months and have no issues with a mouse and keyboard. I think you may just be biased, or just inexperienced. Windows Key is your friend.

[BajiRav]

There are plenty of us that wanted a compromise between both UI models. I outlined several ways a compromise could of been achieved :/

I don't know which post you are specifically referring to or if I even read it - difficult to keep track in anti-metro storm around here. I guess there are plenty of people like me who like the new stuff but are not really concerned by the new/updated UI elements. I can still get from point A to point B, just by a slightly different route (someone will to make a smartass comment on this). Don't really care if it takes longer or shorter and I believe generally it's not that big of a change in my day to day usage.

[abysal]

I don't know which post you are specifically referring to or if I even read it - difficult to keep track in anti-metro storm around here. I guess there are plenty of people like me who like the new stuff but are not really concerned by the new/updated UI elements. I can still get from point A to point B, just by a slightly different route (someone will to make a smartass comment on this). Don't really care if it takes longer or shorter and I believe generally it's not that big of a change in my day to day usage.

I think that's probably the fundamental difference; to me it matters if something takes less steps, even if it still takes me from point A to point B.

One of the things being the Win7 start menu search vs the new Win8 start screen search, a feature which I use heavily. I noticed a lot of people here don't seem to miss the fully index single category search (and non-full screen) from Win7, probably because they never used it that much or as fast as I do?, I'm only speculating. It just sucks for those of us that did use those features.

It's not to say I can't adjust, I do searches just fine using Win-F, Win-Q, and Win-W; full start screen comes up and I don't even look, I just hit enter (since most of the time I typed the exact setting or app I wanted).

I still I feel the old screen start menu is better because of the lesser amount of steps for some functions, even though I can do pretty much the same thing in most cases using different steps in Windows 8.

I have to say your response is probably one of the most honest ones I have seen, and it helps me understand in more detail where a lot of the Windows 8 supporters are coming from.

[WinMunkee]

I feel like searching for items is more accurate now. Regardless of the extra second it takes to click apps, settings or files.

Not only that, but if you go to your charms and click settings. There is a spot that says tiles. From there you can turn on admin tools which links all your main control panel tools on your start screen. From there you can organize them as you wish.

Seriously though, you can literally pin anything to your start screen. So.. if you pin it, it's always a click away.

[BajiRav]

I think that's probably the fundamental difference; to me it matters if something takes less steps, even if it still takes me from point A to point B.

One of the things being the Win7 start menu search vs the new Win8 start screen search, a feature which I use heavily. I noticed a lot of people here don't seem to miss the fully index single category search (and non-full screen) from Win7, probably because they never used it that much or as fast as I do?, I'm only speculating. It just sucks for those of us that did use those features.

It's not to say I can't adjust, I do searches just fine using Win-F, Win-Q, and Win-W; full start screen comes up and I don't even look, I just hit enter (since most of the time I typed the exact setting or app I wanted).

I still I feel the old screen start menu is better because of the lesser amount of steps for some functions, even though I can do pretty much the same thing in most cases using different steps in Windows 8.

I have to say your response is probably one of the most honest ones I have seen, and it helps me understand in more detail where a lot of the Windows 8 supporters are coming from.

I am on the exact opposite side as you when it comes to start menu search. I always found 7 will hit some documents/emails/IMs when I am searching for applications (some internal, can't give out names here) and I am glad it categorizes by default. :) It will help me typing additional filters.