Reality check - Windows 8 was not made for you

[Shane Nokes]

Even just 2+ is cumbersome, certainly 3+ (or 2+ documents of the same type (let's say PDF) )

That's assuming Microsoft will release updates to the apps before GA and the user chooses to apply the updates before even attempting to use Windows 8?

There's still quite a bit of time before GA, so I cannot imagine that they wouldn't have some releases with common requests set to roll out.

If you've used Windows Phone much you'll have an idea of how the app updates work, and it's a nice simple experience, fairly easy for users to take advantage of. Also since these updates are for Modern apps they won't require a reboot. The app will exit, update, and then allow you to continue use. It's all very fluid. I've gone weeks without restarting my Windows Phone and had dozens of app updates during that time without an issue. They are working really hard on making Modern a very smooth experience :)

I love Metro and Desktop does feel a bit clunky for the simple stuff. This is on mouse/keyboard and I am sure the experience is further enhanced with touch. But I simply cannot work without Desktop, that's where my livelihood is. I look forward to a day - and make no mistake, it will come - when WinRT is advanced enough to take over complex apps and relegate Desktop to a legacy interface, much like the command line. But today, Metro is clearly version 1.0 and simply cannot handle all situations.

The good news is that the situations it can, covers a vast majority of computing usage in 2012. Of course this is not relevant to us power users with traditional workstations, a niche base, but Microsoft's motivations are not uncalled for.

This is almost all related to the experience of how the apps work currently. As developers start making more Modern apps you will see improvements in how useful and efficient those apps are. I can see it reaching a point within the next 12-18 months where we almost never see a need to drop to Desktop mode for everyday usage. I can see some more power user scenarios where Desktop mode will come into play, but not often.

I thought I would miss the more 'desktop' feel of Windows Mobile when I switched to Windows Phone because of some of the more powerful things I could do before with Windows Mobile. The updates to Windows Phone have made almost all of that stuff I no longer miss. I can accomplish so much with the Windows Phone that took longer, or was more complicated on Win Mobile. It's simplified my usage, while at the same time allowing me some pretty powerful experiences.

[Mike Frett]

Reality check: People buy iPads and Androids because Microsoft does not have a monopoly in that market, unlike the Desktop market where you have little choice. People have shown now, when given a choice, they do not choose Microsoft.

[CG-88]

The majority of threads I see in my feed now are about Windows 8.....Like alot of other people are saying, if you don't like it don't use it. If you like it obviously say that in an appropriate thread but don't go complaining constantly about people who don't like it and vice versa.

I participated in a few threads defending w8 already and tryed to find logic in some peoples arguments but I'm giving up now, it is an endless battle.

Its either a case of....trying to find logic in a post complaining about windows 8 for the sake of it OR tyring to defend your own positive views.

It's a pity because people who have logical arguments for and against windows 8 are being overshadowed with the same ****.

[The Laughing Man]

REALLY? two topics with almost the same exact titles???

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1099175-reality-check-windows-8-was-not-made-for-you/page__pid__595097759#entry595097759

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

Yeah I didn't notice it, sorry bout that, how can I report my own topic for deleting? :)

[Shane Nokes]

Already reported. Besides it was getting a little too heated in here.

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

I talked to nekkidtruth in PM, if you mean that, and we got all sorted out, no grudge between us :)

[Shane Nokes]

I talked to nekkidtruth in PM, if you mean that, and we got all sorted out, no grudge between us :)

Good to hear. They'll still likely remove/lock it due to the report though since as you've noted it's a dupe and you want it removed anyways. :)

[FiB3R]

you don't see what's wrong here? the fix for using microsoft's new direction is to avoid the default user account setup and bypass the MAIN FEATURES of the new OS with a 3rd party tool to emulate what it did before? YOU DON'T SEE? jesus

:D

Those MAIN FEATURES will be awesome on a tablet, where I need big, easy, simple.

I totally see what's wrong here. A mobile OS crashed head first into the side of a desktop OS, and made a bloody great mess of it.

It ****es me off that it isn't a configurable option, not because it's hard to configure, but because of the reasons that it's "not configurable", for the reasons that Start Screen is there at all.

This is not the same as when people were up in arms about the change from the 98/me Start Menu to the XP Start Menu. That was Microsoft actually trying to improve the Start Menu for desktop users. Here, they are pushing their tablet OS/front end onto their massive user base so it can gain traction and attract developers, so that they have a cats chance in hell, in the consumer tablet space. Plain as ****ing day.

Also, If Windows 8 "wasn't made for me" then why bother with all the other "improvements" to the desktop environment?

LOL Windows 8 wasn't made for YOU.

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

Yeah, I have nothing against it, just came from work when I made it and didn't think too clear after 12 hours lol :D

I'll just post my thoughts to another topic :)

[Shane Nokes]

Reality check: People buy iPads and Androids because Microsoft does not have a monopoly in that market, unlike the Desktop market where you have little choice. People have shown now, when given a choice, they do not choose Microsoft.

Considering that there are no tablets with Windows 8 yet available to the public this comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

Those MAIN FEATURES will be awesome on a tablet, where I need big, easy, simple.

I totally see what's wrong here. A mobile OS crashed head first into the side of a desktop OS, and made a bloody great mess of it.

It ****es me off that it isn't a configurable option, not because it's hard to configure, but because of the reasons that it's "not configurable", for the reasons that Start Screen is there at all.

This is not the same as when people were up in arms about the change from the 98/me Start Menu to the XP Start Menu. That was Microsoft actually trying to improve the Start Menu for desktop users. Here, they are pushing their tablet OS/front end onto their massive user base so it can gain traction and attract developers, so that they have a cats chance in hell, in the consumer tablet space. Plain as ****ing day.

Also, If Windows 8 "wasn't made for me" then why bother with all the other "improvements" to the desktop environment?

LOL Windows 8 wasn't made for YOU.

My thought then is just don't click on any Modern apps. Unpin them all, and pin your favorite Desktop apps there. Then you can just use it as a super huge replacement for the start menu, with even more features tossed in. :)

Yes it is a different environment, but you can totally disregard it and only use it as an app launcher, which is all the start menu was. :)

[dakn]

My main issue is the lack of functionality in the apps - especially music and video. First of all there isn't even an option to add music/video folders from my server so I had to install Zune just to do this. Then once my large music collection is there I a presented them in one MASSIVE scrolling list, unable to even separate them by genre! Same thing for my videos. They are pretty much unusable for any one with decent collections.

My biggest hate though, has to be that when I open my media apps to listen to my music or watch my videos, what am I presented with? The bloody marketplace!

I am not going to tolerate the cheap use of Microsoft using my PC as an advertising platform. The marketplace is a great idea and I will be sure to visit when I need something but I do not want it taking priority in my apps over the actual thing those apps are for. My videos/music aren't even visible when I open those (Cr)apps.

[simplezz]

I keep reading about some peoples displeasure with the direction Microsoft is going with Windows 8,mostly coming from so called "power users", or people who use professional content creation software. Well, if you haven't figured it out yet, Windows 8 was not made for these people.

Was it made for people like

then?

[CG-88]

All the windows 8 thread should get deleted and two new ones created in there place. a "Windows 8 Appreciation thread" and a "windows 8 hate thread" haha :)

[Steven P. Administrators]

Topics merged.

[FiB3R]

Considering that there are no tablets with Windows 8 yet available to the public this comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

My thought then is just don't click on any Modern apps. Unpin them all, and pin your favorite Desktop apps there. Then you can just use it as a super huge replacement for the start menu, with even more features tossed in. :)

Yes it is a different environment, but you can totally disregard it and only use it as an app launcher, which is all the start menu was. :)

I'm fine with not using the modern apps, but a ruddy great "start menu" is ridiculous. it is far less readable/usable, and harder to keep in order.

I've got about 80 applications on my PC right now, not including any games or anything in the accessories folder, and this is a relatively new install, so there could well be a few more added to that list in a month or two. These are put into folders like, Graphics, Audio, Video, Office, Security, Network, Utilities, Hardware, Comms, Modding. Some of those have sub folders.

It takes up a tiny amount of space in comparison, is far more readable because my eyes don't have to travel nearly as far, or get lost in a blur of scrolling. It's like a table of contents, a readable list. Can you imagine trying to read that list in a book, but some **** has made it take 6 pages?

There is just no ****ing way on earth I can get that to be anywhere near as clean and tidy looking with Start Screen, let alone as usable.

No, it's not ready for a proper desktop, not sure if it ever will be.

[BajiRav]

OK, can you tell me how I can force open links in the Mail app to the desktop browser, print an email, switch from composing to my inbox? Some Modern UI apps are useful, I just don't like the way they behave, and are impossible to configure to my liking.

For printing from any metro app, use the Devices charm. So when Mail is open, Devices > {printer name} > Print

But then why are you paying money to upgrade? There is very little else in the operating system once you remove Metro. New explorer UI, new Task Manager. That's about it front facing feature wise. There is some other stuff but they are such small features they don't bare mentioning.

On my computer it boots up and shuts down as fast as Windows 7 (In under 10 seconds) and it runs the same apps so why would I upgrade for? All the new apps like Mail, Messages, Weather and Stocks are Metro apps.

I just don't see the point in it.

Why I am upgrading? I am not bothered by all changes mostly because I like the latest and greatest. I use it strictly on the desktop with no touch hardware whatsoever (not even the touch mouse) and I don't use WinRT apps at all. I like some of the new changes such as Ribbon, task manager, profile sync and hopefully improved media sharing (haven't had a chance to use it yet).

I guess my best reply to you and others is: if you don't like it, don't use it.

Reality check: People buy iPads and Androids because Microsoft does not have a monopoly in that market, unlike the Desktop market where you have little choice. People have shown now, when given a choice, they do not choose Microsoft.

Please. People always had a choice to buy Macs. The monopoly reason stopped working 10 years ago.

[Crisp]

I'm a PC and Windows 8 was not my idea.

[Steven P. Administrators]

For printing from any metro app, use the Devices charm. So when Mail is open, Devices > {printer name} > Print

What!? was I supposed to guess this? :p

I'm a PC and Windows 8 was not my idea. ----> https://www.neowin.net/news/im-a-pc-and-is-windows-8-my-idea

[ZombieFly]

So basically you're saying that the 'h8trs' really aren't haters, but misunderstood, and that those of us who like the OS are blind and too stupid to see it, but you are the arbiter of truth...the only ones who can see it.

So essentially you're doing what you accuse us of, but trying to hide it. Wow...

No

i don't know how to explain it any other way. But that's not what i'm doing. I asked a question, how will you still be a power user if you can't do anything above a user?

[FiB3R]

Apologies if I'm coming across a little harsh, I'm just a bit.... enthusiastic. Love you all really :wub:

[ZombieFly]

I would disagree. I've seen a lot of hate tossed at the people who do like Win8. Like the statement above by ZombieFly that basically says that any of us that like Win8 are blind and stupid since we're letting them strip things out and change it without putting up a fight.

i'm not saying you are stupid, i'm struggling to understand how a self appointed power user cant see the problems in the future if this model becomes default. I can see the value in a tablet based windows OS. I don't deny or disregard that. I don't want things to stay as they are forever, i accept change when change is required. Change was only required to make windows work on a tablet. The semantics of this are completely different to that of a deeply ingrained and accepted infrastructure and industry "way of working" that is in existence all over corporate environments. These things change over time, they need planning and justification. where is the justification for this? where is the roadmap? how and why was it required? was the windows userbase crying out that the whole desktop was wrong and needed a 10ft interface to replace it? did server ops ask for touch screen adjustment controls in their server? ...these are the things i think you are ignoring, this is why I'm confused about the reaction of "power users".

There has been no discussion, requirements gathering or anything on this, it's just appeared after metro was given a design award. It seems this was the green flag to push everything in this direction. Nice design? yes Need a tablet windows? yes Need to convert enterprise desktops and servers to it? NO

this is my point. i can't make it clearer. Answer me these questions. what gains are made by switching the entire windows product base to this?

And that is why the desktop is still there, and that is why they have no intention of removing it.

who says? i've read from numerous sources that the desktop is not planned for future iterations.

[BajiRav]

What!? was I supposed to guess this? :p

No but as the founder of Neowin, you are supposed to figure it out :p

[Subhadip]

ZombieFly, you are making the assumption that WinRT will stay as it is forever. This is most definitely WinRT 1.0. Look back to OS X 10.1 (or even Android 1.0), it was damn near useless, but a few years later, particularly with 10.5 Leopard, it matured into a pretty good OS. Desktop is not going away any time soon. It will eventually, but when it does go, it will be for a good reason. But there's no need to bother about this now, I give it at least till 2016 before Metro can do everything Desktop did and more. It will keep getting better and better and my guess is at an unprecedentedly rapid pace. The 3 year cycle is out the window, that is for sure.

Today, as of WinRT 1.0 in Windows 8, there's good reason to keep improving Desktop, which is exactly what Microsoft is doing.

[Active.]

ZombieFly, you are making the assumption that WinRT will stay as it is forever. This is most definitely WinRT 1.0. Look back to OS X 10.1 (or even Android 1.0), it was damn near useless, but a few years later, particularly with 10.5 Leopard, it matured into a pretty good OS.

As far as the basic UI functionality is concerned, the two aren't really that different though are they?

For example, there's currently no indication as to how Metro will handle editing or displaying two documents next to each other in an app. Can we really expect that functionality to just show up one day out of the blue?