Windows 8 - Unintuitivity at its best

[xWhiplash]

You guys are focusing on the wrong thing when he talks about printing. Yes to manage your printer, it can be found in Devices even on Vista and 7. But when you want to print a word document, do you go there to print? No. How the heck is that better than File - Print?

How is a unified search box better than a dedicated search box JUST for mail IN the mail application? I can use my search box in the start menu to search my outlook messages, but it is not as good as the search IN outlook.

How can you guys deny that this is the most chaotic OS ever released?

Two browsers, Two control panels, hidden menus, half metro even on the desktop (network connectivity for example).

I have said it before, why does the Network Connections need to take up 100% of my 30" monitor's height? I only have one connection. There is so much wasted space being used it is ridiculous. Look at Windows 7. If I have one connection available, I have a very small popup window. If I have two, it is slightly bigger.

You can love Windows 8 or hate it. But come on lets be real here. If I am in metro.....sorry modern or whatever, I want to stay in modern. If I am in aero, I SHOULD NOT SEE MODERN UI.

I have not heard one good reason why the desktop environment needs to be something like it has multiple personalities. It cannot make up its mind on should it be aero or modern.

Also, WHY THE HECK is Server 2013 modernized, and why isnt there an option in that OS at least to go straight to the desktop on boot?

I am really sorry. I have said it before that I upgrade to the latest OS the WEEK it is available in stores. I do not wait for bug fixes, or service packs. But this OS just gives me a headache trying to adjust what I am doing. Since I am on this forum, I know more about computers than the average user. I support Windows and Mac and the hardware issues that occur (I am not saying I know everything, I do not know many people that do). I can manage with Windows 8, but it requires me to be a little bit slower. Since I am a content producer in my spare time, I cannot afford to work a little bit slower. Therefore, Windows 7 is just fine for me. I have heard general users say they adapted with OS X better than they did with Windows 8.

You know there are people that need the functionality that all previous windows versions had....multitasking and multiple things open on the screen at the same time. Yes yes I know "But the desktop is still there". It does not matter. We desktop users are treated as second class citizens and I personally will not tolerate it. Even some of you guys here say "desktop is only there for legacy." "But it is MS's OS NOT YOURS". I am sorry, we are consumers. I know it will not happen, but if 0 people buy a product, you either die as a company or change your product. You guys act as if Microsoft can make an OS and no matter WHAT they do, it is okay because it is their OS. I am sorry, it does not work that way. That is like saying Adobe can make Photoshop CS7 and only allow you to resize images and it would be okay because it is theirs. People would stop buying Photoshop then. I know that is a bad example but I hope you see what I am trying to say. MS is not immune from failure if they mess up an OS.

[Arceles]

Quoting myself

Windows 8 is bad and Microsoft should fell bad about it. That pretty much sums it up.

-They could actually do metro right and they didn't (just looking at all the white explorer... hurts my eyes, literally)

-I was forced to put the taskbar above, because if it was down the horrible "start" square appeared and didn't let me chose the explorer pinned shortcut.

-The incredible 3 steps to shut down the computer, had once again to accustom myself to use the "alt+f4" technique...

-The horrible, once again, two corners that activate the charms bar, they don't allow me to put a real launcher like xlanchpad, had to move that one to the upper left corner and it's far less intrusive that the "start" square.

-Full screen PDF reader, really? Send it to hell my dear Acrobat.

-Full screen Email client, made a mistake and had to restore program defaults, because everytime I wanted to click an email on a website my whole screen was covered by this really bad "Mail" client.

-Had to pin "My Computer" to the sites listed on the explorer pinned shortcut, now at least is "right click-> My computer" instead of "start menu -> my computer"

-Still unable to run K10STAT automatically at startup because of the admin rights, no matter if I put compatibility options of "Run as Administrator", got it pinned to the "Start" screen, at least the moment I click on it I got into the desktop.

-I miss my transparencies, guess they were removed because a lot of Intel Integrated Graphics had severe slowdowns when dragging a window, something that I haven't seen with every integrated graphics solution by both AMD and NVidia since like 8 years.

-Why... and really why... they didn't let the user to chose between the start menu and the start screen? just because they wanted one person to try the metro apps? they're good if you need small games for children or persons more casuals than the current FIFA players, still, nothing good as a full blown win32 app.

-The only good metro apps are actually the "notes", "rechner" and some others, very specific apps for very specific functions, very small too, they decided to reemplace the whole sidebar with this, in a sense, this is an improvement... but I don't see myself using one of these for real, serious work, an example would be my Eclipse IDE, that I have to have it coupled with KiTTy (SSH terminal) and Putty (RS232 Terminal), both for remotelly debugging my Raspberry Pi programming. In total I have 3 damned programs on the screen, not ONE.

-I actually like Visual Studio 2012, the interface got improved a lot but surely I won't be using it for coding WinRT Apps.

-The faster startup behavior, as explained by the very OS is because "It saves certain files for faster boot up" which means we are kind of hibernating, is not a proper shutdown, because as once again this os remarks "Restart is not affected by this" which means that restart actually does boot up the machine from 0. Once again, I fell the restart performance almost the same than Win7, except for the fact that Win8 is a little light now and therefore a little faster, but not that much on restarts.

-The dual boot menu is... really bad, My whole machine starts just before the GUI just to tell me which OS I want to choose, and when I do it restarts it again to actually boot up the desired OS, this is bad and MS should feel bad about it, there are some tricks like reemplacing the Win7 bootloader instead of the Win8 one.

-The vector designs of the start screen are actually bad and MS should fell bad about it, there is nothing "Modern" in most of them, they look like a lot of plain desings slapped one after another and give the impression of being messed up, the Vista moving lines where by far more "Modern" than this.

-The share option is dumb in the charms bar, only shows to which public this charms bar is given to, they should have put a damned search files option into that bar and would be perfect, NOT a shortcut to search, but an actuall input box where you can type and the results would appear inmediatelly.

-They should have choosen gradiens and not plain colors, like the tiles, the user screen when the machine boots up reminds mi a lot of my Win3.11 or Win95 desktops (and that's quite not bad though but so much for going for "Modern")

-Icons are missing a lof of consistency, but then again, the whole OS does.

-Continuing to use this crap, just to show how bad it is and for keeping away those that say "You only used it a day hurrrrrl!"

Start8 makes windows 8 far more comfortable, an start menu like this improves efficiency like 200%, disables charms bar and the stupid lower left rectangle allowing for quick mouse movements to go straight where the user wants to be (and Jump List Greatest Scott!). Now I need my transparencies back... and Themes, there should be themes, but if anything, MS has created such a bad OS that I'm wondering if we are going to see the same talents that were with Win7.

Also a bug: (http://www.neowin.ne...avel-metro-app/)

Travel metro app had an update, tried to update and it would never finish, tried many times and nothing, then uninstalled and tried to install it again and now it turns out I cant even install it, so much for their "reliable" WinRT architecture. pure crap.

[spudtrooper]

haha, i find completely the opposite. Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are super intuitive.. i can't stand having to use an iOS device and i already use my Windows 8 desktops more than my RHEL and Windows 7 systems.

[Rickkins]

Quoting myself

disables charms bar and the stupid lower left rectangle allowing for quick mouse movements to go straight where the user wants to be

Ohhh... I did not realize that. I don't think classic shell does that. May have to try start8....

Edit: er, nevermind, looked for the setting and found it. "disable active corners", does the trick.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

I agree with the OP. I'm intending to stick with Windows 7 myself. I tried Windows 8 several times and it just makes me less productive. But worse than that it angers and frustrates me. The inconsistencies are just too widespread and it feels disjointed and confused, having the two interfaces could have worked well but they didn't integrate them together properly the only real integration between them is the switching between them.

I still don't understand why they didn't give us the ability to drag a file from Explorer in to a Metro application. What if I want to drag an image in to an email or something? -- Confusing and poorly executed is what Windows 8 is to me and not something I could use day to day, at least not without throwing my computer out of a window in frustration.

i agree with this post

a lot of people like to refute Windows 8 complaints with consolations, or workarounds. "all you have to do is x + y + z!" "duh, just use Windows + key to do it instead!" my question is - why? why does a user have to do a workaround to provide the same functionality that theyve experienced in XP, Vista or 7? My parents arent savvy enough to remember workarounds and keyboard shortcuts. How is a basic user going to adapt to the Modern UI?

[bj55555]

Windows 7: File | Print...

Windows 8: Devices | Print

OMG! It's so unintuitive! I'm so stupid I can't remember something my dog could remember to do after the first time if only she had opposable thumbs to use the mouse!

And what is this about a Print Button? WTF is a Print Button? I see no Print Button in the Chrome browser window that I'm typing this into. Are you sure you're using the same Windows 7 that I'm using?

You act like that's a standard Windows feature every application has. Developers can put one in if they want to clutter up the client area of their UI or add it to a toolbar if they want their application to look like it came from the 90s. Modern UI apps are all about removing clutter and having a consistent look.

[Depicus]

Windows 7: File | Print... Windows 8: Devices | Print OMG! It's so unintuitive! I'm so stupid I can't remember something my dog could remember to do after the first time if only she had opposable thumbs to use the mouse! And what is this about a Print Button? WTF is a Print Button? I see no Print Button in the Chrome browser window that I'm typing this into. Are you sure you're using the same Windows 7 that I'm using? You act like that's a standard Windows feature every application has. Developers can put one in if they want to clutter up the client area of their UI or add it to a toolbar if they want their application to look like it came from the 90s. Modern UI apps are all about removing clutter and having a consistent look.

From Google

in?tu?i?tive/in?t(y)o?oitiv/

Adjective:

• Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.
  
• (chiefly of computer software) Easy to use and understand.
  

Now you might think it is easy to understand but I know 200 users who have been conditioned to go to file > print for many years who will take YEARS to adjust.

Also intuitively I want to print a FILE not a DEVICE.

[Dot Matrix]

It's "unintuitive" because you're not used to the new layout. Metro isn't about File menus or dialog boxes anymore. Windows 8 requires a fresh frame of mind.

Also intuitively I want to print a FILE not a DEVICE.

Time to let the File menu die... There are bigger and better things than drop down menus.

[Arceles]

It's "unintuitive" because you're not used to the new layout. Metro isn't about File menus or dialog boxes anymore. Windows 8 requires a fresh frame of mind.

Time to let the File menu die... There are bigger and better things than drop down menus.

/s

Seriously... what I have to read, in this precise forums, the level of ignorance is too damn high!

[Dot Matrix]

/s

Seriously... what I have to read, in this precise forums, the level of ignorance is too damn high!

I'm sorry, what ignorance?

[bj55555]

From Google

in?tu?i?tive/in?t(y)o?oitiv/

Adjective:

• Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.
  
• (chiefly of computer software) Easy to use and understand.
  

Now you might think it is easy to understand but I know 200 users who have been conditioned to go to file > print for many years who will take YEARS to adjust.

Gee, thanks, but I don't have to look up what the definition of intuitive is.

How long did those 200 users take to BECOME conditioned to using File | Print? If any of these 200 user can't adjust for years, it will have been because they want to do only something they've already memorized, rather than use intuition, AND because they refuse to "memorize" anything new. That's the very definition of a "moron", and they have no business using computers.

Also intuitively I want to print a FILE not a DEVICE.

Intuitively, you think of the device that you want to use for a given purpose. Who the **** thinks "file" anymore? When you're viewing a web page and want to output to a printer, are you thinking that you're "printing a file"? What if you just scribbled some **** in MS Paint and just want to print? How is it a file? You never persisted your artwork anywhere, so how is it a "file"?

[ahhell]

/s

Seriously... what I have to read, in this precise forums, the level of ignorance irony is too damn high!

FTFY

[andrewbares]

Windows 7: File | Print...

Windows 8: Devices | Print

OMG! It's so unintuitive! I'm so stupid I can't remember something my dog could remember to do after the first time if only she had opposable thumbs to use the mouse!

And what is this about a Print Button? WTF is a Print Button? I see no Print Button in the Chrome browser window that I'm typing this into. Are you sure you're using the same Windows 7 that I'm using?

You act like that's a standard Windows feature every application has. Developers can put one in if they want to clutter up the client area of their UI or add it to a toolbar if they want their application to look like it came from the 90s. Modern UI apps are all about removing clutter and having a consistent look.

Okay, let me break this down for you...

1. In Windows 7, there's a thing called Adobe Reader which nearly every average user uses to view PDF's.
   
2. In Adobe Reader, there's a friendly Print button right on the page. Not hidden in an invisible menu, not burried under File->Print, it's just right there. ONE CLICK.
   
3. In Windows 8, you first have to go to charms-> devices, and then find which printer. Nothing in there says PRINT. That's not user friendly. They have an icon of a printer next to the name, but that's it.
   

[Depicus]

How long did those 200 users take to BECOME conditioned to using File | Print? If any of these 200 user can't adjust for years, it will have been because they want to do only something they've already memorized, rather than use intuition, AND because they refuse to "memorize" anything new. That's the very definition of a "moron", and they have no business using computers.

Ok because they use a computer for work, and have no interest in what is does, that then makes them all morons ?

Do you know how to replace the cam shaft of your car ? Does that make you a moron ?

Why not have a little respect for people who just want to do their job.

[Dot Matrix]

Ok because they use a computer for work, and have no interest in what is does, that then makes them all morons ?

Do you know how to replace the cam shaft of your car ? Does that make you a moron ?

Why not have a little respect for people who just want to do their job.

So, Devices > Print isn't work friendly.... How?

[The Laughing Man]

I'm sorry, what ignorance?

Your Microsoft paycheck lol

[bj55555]

Okay, let me break this down for you...

1. In Windows 7, there's a thing called Adobe Reader which nearly every average user uses to view PDF's.
   
2. In Adobe Reader, there's a friendly Print button right on the page. Not hidden in an invisible menu, not burried under File->Print, it's just right there. ONE CLICK.
   
3. In Windows 8, you first have to go to charms-> devices, and then find which printer. Nothing in there says PRINT. That's not user friendly. They have an icon of a printer next to the name, but that's it.
   

Let me break this down for you...

In Windows 7, there are applications that have a print button and applications that don't have a print button. It's a complete cluster**** because there's no consistency. Sure, you can use File | Print..if the application even has drop down menus.

The Modern UI paradigm does away with the convenient print button, that's only convenient if the developer decided to provide the convenience in a given application, in favor of consistency. Instead, the OS is providing the UI paradigm for printing in all Modern UI applications to ensure consistency. Does it take a little longer even if you know how to do it? Yes, it sure ****ing does, but if I'm CIO of Global Tech Inc with 100,000 employees, I'd rather not have to train every user on every god damn new piece of software that gets installed on whether to use the print button or the File | Print menu option for a given application.

[Dot Matrix]

Your Microsoft paycheck lol

Ad hominem. How nice.

[bj55555]

Ok because they use a computer for work, and have no interest in what is does, that then makes them all morons ?

Do you know how to replace the cam shaft of your car ? Does that make you a moron ?

Why not have a little respect for people who just want to do their job.

Why don't you let them decide if it's unintuitive and "unlearnable" before you speak for them and make them look like morons on their behalf? I'm actually giving these users the benefit of the doubt.

[andrewbares]

In Windows 7, there are applications that have a print button and applications that don't have a print button. It's a complete cluster**** because there's no consistency. Sure, you can use File | Print..if the application even has drop down menus.

Actually, any Windows 7 apps I've used have been VERY consistent. If it's an app that usually prints, there's a print button right there on the page. Otherwise, there's File->Print.

And you didn't respond to the issue that nothing even says "Print" in the Charms bar. Yes, users need it that blatently spelled out for them.

[Depicus]

Why don't you let them decide if it's unintuitive and "unlearnable" before you speak for them and make them look like morons on their behalf? I'm actually giving these users the benefit of the doubt.

Good retort will give you that one, although you used moron not me :)

Of course I just think they get paid call center rates and are usually more interested in booze and sex than learning where the print option is. I've only been contracting there for 8 years so I am no expert but I suspect that 17 years of using File > Print will be deeply ingrained and while you may be interested to discover how Windows 8 works very few of these people care much, unless Microsoft could get on X Factor then interest levels might be raised.

[Dot Matrix]

And you didn't respond to the issue that nothing even says "Print" in the Charms bar. Yes, users need it that blatently spelled out for them.

No, they don't. Honestly, I don't know what kind of users you hang around, my my friends are fairly smart when it comes to tech. They run their phones and tablets like there's no tomorrow. They don't need their hands held.

People complain about the "dumbing down" of operating systems, yet are also complaining that the OS isn't dumb enough. I'm confused....

[jakem1]

Ok because they use a computer for work, and have no interest in what is does, that then makes them all morons ?

Do you know how to replace the cam shaft of your car ? Does that make you a moron ?

Why not have a little respect for people who just want to do their job.

Funny, you were the one that suggested it would take these people years to re-familiarise themselves with printing ;)

There are far too many assumptions in this and all the other anti-Win8 threads about how "average" users will cope. Rather than moaning constantly why don't you people just help your family/colleagues like you did in the past and tell them how to do it.

[andrewbares]

No, they don't. Honestly, I don't know what kind of users you hang around, my my friends are fairly smart when it comes to tech. They run their phones and tablets like there's no tomorrow. They don't need their hands held.

People complain about the "dumbing down" of operating systems, yet are also complaining that the OS isn't dumb enough. I'm confused....

Your friends and family are more tech savvy than the average user.

Fact is, my parents are confused as ever when it comes to printing something through Windows 8. They need things clearly spelled out for them. Windows 8 is supposed to be simpler and more user friendly, and targeted for the average user instead of the power user. Yet, they managed to make it worse for the average user in a few ways.

[Dot Matrix]

Your friends and family are more tech savvy than the average user.

Fact is, my parents are confused as ever when it comes to printing something through Windows 8. They need things clearly spelled out for them. Windows 8 is supposed to be simpler and more user friendly, and targeted for the average user instead of the power user. Yet, they managed to make it worse for the average user in a few ways.

Parents are just a small piece of the "average user" pie. I'm currently sitting in my school's cafeteria, and I must say, I see plenty of people running through their devices without hindrance. I see kids all the time ranging from those who can barely read or write, to those just starting college. These kids have grown up with tech, they know how it works, what it can do, and what it can't do. Our parents don't have that advantage, they were forcefully thrust into the digital age, but as they get older, and more and more kids play with their parent's phones and tablets, they're quickly becoming a minority. You can't let that minority stand in the way of progress.