Early look at Windows 8 baffles consumers

[grik]

Now, is this a serious statement or were you just on a roll when responding? Even, those who hate Windows 8, exception being you, don't make this statement. I think that most people have universally agreed that Windows 8 outperforms Windows 7, if not significantly.

I have less FPS in every game iv tried, maybe its drivers that arent worked up, but last time i had this it was called Vista and i skipped it.

So yes i can get accurate conclusion just for the things i use get slower.

I will wait to SP1 to try it again, now i just use windows7 that as all that i need without hurting the performance.

[.Neo]

"It was very difficult to get used to," he said. "I have an 8-year-old and a 10-year-old, and they never got used to it. They were like, 'We're just going to use Mom's computer.'"

You know something went terribly wrong when an 8 and 10-year-old are unable to adapt to changes.

[Astra.Xtreme]

Just because YOU have to do that doesn't mean there's something wrong with Microsoft's design. Just because the manufacturer of a certain product doesn't adjust that product to suit or fit a particular need of an individual or group doesn't imply bad design. What most people, and by extension, organizations understand is you cannot please everyone as much as you may want to. To that end, you create the best you, organization, or product that you can, sell it like hell and hope it's enough.

The fact is, Windows 8 works really well for a whole lot of people and for some people it doesn't. Guess what? You can say that about damn near everything that exist. It's a bit self-centered to say that because something doesn't specifically work for you it's bad. It's also simply your opinion, not a fact. You are entitled to such, but I can assure you that millions of people will find that it does "just work" or is "possible to make it work using built-in options".

You kind of missed his point. He wasn't saying that the design is bad before it doesn't work for him. He's saying the design is bad because Microsoft is forcing people in one direction. If we had the option to boot directly to the desktop or turn the start button on/off, Windows 8 would be an amazing OS. The fact that Microsoft is building a walled garden is what is making people angry. People have used the start button and desktop for 20 years, so why abruptly take it away?

[.Neo]

People have used the start button and desktop for 20 years, so why abruptly take it away?

It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft is going to expand the usage of advertisements on the Start Screen. Being able to bypass the Start Screen and immediately go to the desktop after log in gives people a method of circumventing them.

[Fourjays Veteran]

This isn't a change for the sake of change. If developers aren't developing for your system anymore, you have a problem.

Who are these developers that are not developing for Windows anymore? I work in web development and all of my tools are still being actively developed, and not just bugfixes. I am sure the respective tools for other fields are as well. So what is missing from the Windows ecosystem that nobody is developing but is so desperately required?

I'm productive using Metro apps, just as I am using the desktop. I've been able to use OneNote MX and EverNote Metro apps in class to take notes, Update my Calendar using the Metro app, yadi yadda... Not everything like this are going to be "fart apps". Also, come the 26th, the Metro Skype app will replace the desktop app for me as well.

So there's a Metro Photoshop? Fireworks? Notepad++? Filezilla? PuTTy? Hell, Office?! Good for you that everything you use has been Metro-fied. Everytime productivity is mentioned, the Windows 8 fans come up with the same "well I'm just as productive as I was in 7" line. Quit it. Everyone has differing requirements to be productive. Even if all of a person's software is available in Metro, it doesn't mean there aren't elements of the OS itself that are counterproductive to their needs. For example, I would require at least 3-4 "apps" open on the same screen, not just two as I believe is the case now.

Although time will tell, I personally believe this is Windows 8 big failing - there are so many compromises made to the UI for the purpose of their tablet-desktop hybrid, that some software/productivity processes will simply be no longer possible. An example is Photoshop - I seriously can't imagine how that could be made to fit within the Metro guidelines as there are just so many different options, dialogs, windows, tools, etc.

[Shadrack]

I predict that Windows 9 is going to be a re-connect to Windows 7. I don't think their one-UI to rule them all approach is going to resonate well with the market.

[contextfree]

Don't blame the kids. He probably put them in an app on the desktop and had them try to switch back and forth. That could be an issue for kids learning. The thing is kids won't need to got back and forth much, especially on tablets.

Windows 8 will do fine. It will annoy experienced users, but we'll get over it.

Going back and forth between the desktop and a Metro style app is exactly the same as going back and forth between two Metro style apps though. If they have problems with one they'll have problems with the other, it doesn't actually make a difference whether the desktop is involved or not.

[Dot Matrix]

Who are these developers that are not developing for Windows anymore? I work in web development and all of my tools are still being actively developed, and not just bugfixes. I am sure the respective tools for other fields are as well. So what is missing from the Windows ecosystem that nobody is developing but is so desperately required?

Then where are the killer apps? If Windows 7 is so great for today's computing, why isn't it working on other hardware? Why can I not load Windows 7, and have access to the same apps iOS, and Android has? If Windows is still be actively developed for, where are the Facebook, Twitter, LinkdIn apps? Where are the games people craze over? Where are the "cool, you have to see this!" apps? Where's the Store where I can upload my app so that everyone can see it? Like it or not, you're living in an app world. Windows 7 has none of these apps to speak of.

I predict that Windows 9 is going to be a re-connect to Windows 7. I don't think their one-UI to rule them all approach is going to resonate well with the market.

And abandon all the developers they snagged for Windows 8? Are you kidding!? That would be akin to putting a gun in your mouth. Microsoft would never recover.

[Hum]

Who made you go out and buy expensive hardware? Also, who forced you to upgrade?

No one will with this Windows 8 :laugh: .... I dare to think for myself.

[Active.]

And abandon all the developers they snagged for Windows 8? Are you kidding!? That would be akin to putting a gun in your mouth. Microsoft would never recover.

I've always seen W8 as an attempt to jumpstart Microsoft's touch ecosystem via the Desktop user base. As soon as Windows RT and Metro are up and running and doing well in the marketplace, Microsoft would be free to scale back the restrictions for desktop users a bit (e.g. that you can't boot to the Desktop).

[Wyn6]

You kind of missed his point. He wasn't saying that the design is bad before it doesn't work for him. He's saying the design is bad because Microsoft is forcing people in one direction. If we had the option to boot directly to the desktop or turn the start button on/off, Windows 8 would be an amazing OS. The fact that Microsoft is building a walled garden is what is making people angry. People have used the start button and desktop for 20 years, so why abruptly take it away?

I suppose the argument could be made for abruptly discarding something. But, how would you gradually take away the Start button? The desktop is still there, however, and will slowly be phased out. So, the we will be weaned away from it. I believe (my opinion here) that this had to be done at some point. We don't really expect that in the next 20 years our computer screens will be filled with a bunch of little icons and have a Start Button onscreen, do we?

At some point we have to make the move to go forward. Is every move forward a great move? Not necessarily. But, at the same time... progress must be made. A catalyst must be wrought. Windows 8 is that catalyst. And, whether it alone moves us forward, or it sparks the minds of someone else somewhere else to do that, it is indeed the beginning of a new era. We are on the precipice of something truly great, provided the world doesn't explode in two months.

And, guess what? Change will not accommodate everyone and I get that. Some of us will gravitate toward change and others will be pushed away. We see that everyday in so many arenas. What MS has done is especially polarizing in the tech geek community. But, what most likely will happen is this. We will see the further evolution of the Windows 8 paradigm not a return. We will see newer solutions popping up at breakneck speed. We will see old favorites phased out, the mouse for example. We may even live to see the death of the physical keyboard. That's not to say methods of text input will go away. They will simply evolve.

But, ultimately what we have here is a bunch of speculation and conjecture. Most of us don't know what the future holds. We can fight against change, or embrace it. In the end, neither matters. Because, as the late, great Sam Cooke sang... A Change Is Gonna Come.

[Active.]

I supposed the argument could be made for abruptly discarding something. But, how would you gradually take away the Start button? The desktop is still there, however, and will slowly be phased out. So, the we will be weaned away from it. I believe (my opinion here) that this had to be done at some point. We don't really expect that in the next 20 years our computer screens will be filled with a bunch of little icons and have a Start Button onscreen, do we?

So you expect this to be the future of all UIs?

At some point we have to make the move to go forward. Is every move forward a great move? Not necessarily.

And not every move is a move forward either.

[tsupersonic]

Been using Windows 8 on three normal non-touch systems, and love it. Not sure why people seem to think Windows 8 is touch only. It's not. The UI is more fluid and dynamic, but that doesn't mean it can't be used with a keyboard and mouse.

I never claimed W8 is only for touch-screen devices. The whole Metro UI just does not work for me on a non-touchscreen device. It works great on a phone or tablet where it's touch centric, because the tiles are nice and big, so it's easy to use. On a computer with mouse/keyboard, it just does not work, the UI space is wasted, and you have the precision of a mouse, so you don't need large tiles to begin with. The UI is fluid and dynamic, sure, but that adds nothing to usability with keyboard and mouse. That's just progression of the UI in Windows. Windows 7 is more fluid and dynamic than Windows Vista, as Vista is more fluid and dynamic than XP, so and so forth.

Then where are the killer apps? If Windows 7 is so great for today's computing, why isn't it working on other hardware? Why can I not load Windows 7, and have access to the same apps iOS, and Android has? If Windows is still be actively developed for, where are the Facebook, Twitter, LinkdIn apps? Where are the games people craze over? Where are the "cool, you have to see this!" apps? Where's the Store where I can upload my app so that everyone can see it? Like it or not, you're living in an app world. Windows 7 has none of these apps to speak of.

Who says you need an app. store to have a successful OS? That's not how Microsoft gained 85%+ market share with all it's previous versions of Windows! You can get said apps. through digital distribution/optical media of some sort. The App. store does centralizes everything, which is more convenient than going to a manufacturer website and buying optical media/download copy. I think Microsoft is adding an app. store just because Apple did it. Consistency is nice between a platform (aka apps. on W8, Surface RT, Surface Pro, WP8, Xbox, etc.), but sooner or later, there are certain types of devices that will have restrictions on what it can/can't do based on the type of device.

[Astra.Xtreme]

I suppose the argument could be made for abruptly discarding something. But, how would you gradually take away the Start button? The desktop is still there, however, and will slowly be phased out. So, the we will be weaned away from it. I believe (my opinion here) that this had to be done at some point. We don't really expect that in the next 20 years our computer screens will be filled with a bunch of little icons and have a Start Button onscreen, do we?

At some point we have to make the move to go forward. Is every move forward a great move? Not necessarily. But, at the same time... progress must be made. A catalyst must be wrought. Windows 8 is that catalyst. And, whether it alone moves us forward, or it sparks the minds of someone else somewhere else to do that, it is indeed the beginning of a new era. We are on the precipice of something truly great, provided the world doesn't explode in two months.

And, guess what? Change will not accommodate everyone and I get that. Some of us will gravitate toward change and others will be pushed away. We see that everyday in so many arenas. What MS has done is especially polarizing in the tech geek community. But, what most likely will happen is this. We will see the further evolution of the Windows 8 paradigm not a return. We will see newer solutions popping up at breakneck speed. We will see old favorites phased out, the mouse for example. We may even live to see the death of the physical keyboard. That's not to say methods of text input will go away. They will simply evolve.

But, ultimately what we have here is a bunch of speculation and conjecture. Most of us don't know what the future holds. We can fight against change, or embrace it. In the end, neither matters. Because, as the late, great Sam Cooke sang... A Change Is Gonna Come.

They could have added an option in the control panel to enable/disable the start button, and also whether to boot into Metro or straight to desktop. And if they wanted to push more towards Metro and without the start button, they could set the default settings accordingly.

I support evolution if it equates to higher productivity, but I really don't consider Windows 8 as a step forward in that regards. There are just too many things that take longer than on Win 7. The potential is definitely there; just not executed well enough yet.

[Dot Matrix]

I've always seen W8 as an attempt to jumpstart Microsoft's touch ecosystem via the Desktop user base. As soon as Windows RT and Metro are up and running and doing well in the marketplace, Microsoft would be free to scale back the restrictions for desktop users a bit (e.g. that you can't boot to the Desktop).

That's assuming the desktop stays the way it is right now. You know it's not going to, though. Sure, you're going to have it a bit yet for compatibility, but I think Microsoft could be looking into redefining what we think the "desktop" is. Come a few years, you might not even have to worry about booting to the desktop, because it might not even be there to begin with.

[Active.]

Microsoft could be looking into redefining what we think the "desktop" is.

I'm sure they are. Yet, so far, they haven't laid out a coherent vision, except for saying that Metro is for consumption and other light tasks, and the Desktop is for complex apps and extensive multitasking.

[MorganX]

Going back and forth between the desktop and a Metro style app is exactly the same as going back and forth between two Metro style apps though. If they have problems with one they'll have problems with the other, it doesn't actually make a difference whether the desktop is involved or not.

I think that switching back to desktop, you then have a MDI environment is a little different than switching between full screen Metro apps. Additionally, when in desktop, I've run into the upper left corner getting in the way when closing or accessing a classic app menu in upper left. It's highly annoying. If you only run Metro apps switching apps should pose 0 problems, IMO. And of course, any app in the desktop environment is switched to by going to desktop, not directly to the apps as with Metro apps.

Is it optimal in either case, IMO, no. Is it too hard for 8 year old's, IMO, no.

I predict that Windows 9 is going to be a re-connect to Windows 7. I don't think their one-UI to rule them all approach is going to resonate well with the market.

Hard to say. But I think we can agree a Windows 7-like explorer UI will not be on tablets and phones in the future. That's how MS got in this hole in the first place. The Explorer UI just doesn't work on those form factors or with fat fingers.

[.Neo]

Then where are the killer apps? If Windows 7 is so great for today's computing, why isn't it working on other hardware? Why can I not load Windows 7, and have access to the same apps iOS, and Android has? If Windows is still be actively developed for, where are the Facebook, Twitter, LinkdIn apps? Where are the games people craze over? Where are the "cool, you have to see this!" apps? Where's the Store where I can upload my app so that everyone can see it? Like it or not, you're living in an app world. Windows 7 has none of these apps to speak of.

Facebook, Twitter and LinkdIn apps simply aren't needed on a desktop operating system, they work just fine within a browser. Beyond that there's no reason why Microsoft couldn't have introduced a "Windows Store" in Windows 7.

[Dot Matrix]

Facebook, Twitter and LinkdIn apps simply aren't needed on a desktop operating system, they work just fine within a browser.

We have Twitter apps, why not?

[Dashel]

Because there is simply no app that is better than the native web experience in the majority of cases. Your delusion about what 'apps' are is belied by the simple fact that they were created as a workaround due to device limitations, and will subsequently always trail the desktop by a wide margin - hence MS pursuing their historical strategy of putting the 'desktop on a tablet' and not just growing up WP.

[Shadrack]

And abandon all the developers they snagged for Windows 8? Are you kidding!? That would be akin to putting a gun in your mouth. Microsoft would never recover.

Windows 8 has app developers? GTFO!

[Solid Knight]

"I have an 8 year old and they never got used to it"

Well good luck in life, when I was 8 I taught myself to use a Computer, Windows 98. If they can't deal with change at that age...

Seriously. When I was seven, I used Windows 3.1 and almost all of my stuff ran only in DOS. Type a command and the computer does the command. It's not hard. The manual only told you exactly what to type and what it did.

[Shadrack]

When I was 3 years old, I learned how to load my cassette tape with all my favorite Color Basic games and tap out on the keyboard of my RadioShack Color Basic Computer "run amazing" to run my favorite game. It was a maze game. :p

Seriously. When I was seven, I used Windows 3.1 and almost all of my stuff ran only in DOS. Type a command and the computer does the command. It's not hard. The manual only told you exactly what to type and what it did.

[majortom1981]

Seriously. When I was seven, I used Windows 3.1 and almost all of my stuff ran only in DOS. Type a command and the computer does the command. It's not hard. The manual only told you exactly what to type and what it did.

thats not including all the autoexec.bat and config.sys editing just to get the game to run. Then having to switch 5.25 floppys mid game

[Growled Member]

thats not including all the autoexec.bat and config.sys editing just to get the game to run. Then having to switch 5.25 floppys mid game

Ah, those were the days. :)