Lance Armstrong stripped of all seven Tour de France wins by UCI

By +Frank B.
in The Sporting Arena

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Grand Master

cork1958

Posted
Posted

I couldn't see a decision like this being made lightly and without recourse so if the evidence against him is as telling as it seemed I believe the right decision has been made. Cheating in sport should be punished with lifetime bans and nothing less in my opinion.

And from what I can gather the options to both re-assign the wins to someone else or declare them as having no winner are open.

" Cheating in sport should be punished with lifetime bans and nothing less in my opinion."

Couldn't agree with that line anymore. So, how com Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, etc., still holds any records? It was team mates and other professionals who stated they were a dopers!

Grand Master

Praetor

Posted
Posted

Also don't forget that the UCI stated that those athletes that spilled the beans about USPS cycling team are still under sanctions, they haven't got a single pardon from helping this investigation, only a "thanks you".

i think a new era in cycling is about to start, giving this sport credit and respect, since those involved in this sad episodes trashed cycling.

Grand Master

LaP

Posted
Posted

Unless everyone is cheating.

It's doesn't change anything.

This is an excuse often used by people who use exploitable glitches in competitive multiplayer video games. It's okay to do it because everyone do it they say. Nah it still breaks the game and it's still bad to exploit unpatched glitches.

Even if they are all doped it's still bad. And they are not all doped. The top 10 mostly are but the guy who finish last probably is not. Not everyone is willing to risk his life to make more cash.

  • +hedleigh and ahhell
  • Like 2
Grand Master

threetonesun

Posted
Posted

It's doesn't change anything.

This is an excuse often used by people who use exploitable glitches in competitive multiplayer video games. It's okay to do it because everyone do it they say. Nah it still breaks the game and it's still bad to exploit unpatched glitches.

Even if they are all doped it's still bad. And they are not all doped. The top 10 mostly are but the guy who finish last probably is not. Not everyone is willing to risk his life to make more cash.

People cheat in video games because it's easy, people cheat in sports because they become famous and make lots of money, they're not exactly the same.

My bigger point is, if you can't tell who's cheating, what's the point of even having the sport. The only way you're going to keep people from cheating is to lower the stakes, and even then, I know guys who did steroids who did nothing but play in town softball leagues.

Lance Armstrong is still famous, and my bet is that in his mind, cheating was still worth it. Same with Barry Bonds, and as I noted before, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has admitted that steroids pretty much made him famous. If you built the pedestal tall enough, people will do whatever it takes to get there.

Grand Master

shakey

Posted
Posted

People cheat in video games because it's easy, people cheat in sports because they become famous and make lots of money, they're not exactly the same.

My bigger point is, if you can't tell who's cheating, what's the point of even having the sport. The only way you're going to keep people from cheating is to lower the stakes, and even then, I know guys who did steroids who did nothing but play in town softball leagues.

Lance Armstrong is still famous, and my bet is that in his mind, cheating was still worth it. Same with Barry Bonds, and as I noted before, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has admitted that steroids pretty much made him famous. If you built the pedestal tall enough, people will do whatever it takes to get there.

I think we should have a league for those who want to dope. If they want to, let them. Let's make the league something like what Arena Football was in America. Just this jazzed up entertainment only type of game, where real fame and glory is not had, but only excitement of what is being done.

Then we can have the real sports, with people who are pushing themselves naturally. We can look up to those people, while still getting great entertainment from the dopers doing whatever crazy feats they might do.

I'm not going to tell someone what they can and can't do with their body. But we shouldn't be looking up to people who cheat and lie. We shouldn't try to rationaliize any bit of it. Just because others did, doesn't make it right.

After a little more thought, might be good to actually have 2 divisions. We would have records for normal and dopers, and could better judge maybe if someone is cheating in the normal leagues, by how close their records are with the dopers :p

Mentor

Nerd Rage

Posted
Posted

" Cheating in sport should be punished with lifetime bans and nothing less in my opinion."

Couldn't agree with that line anymore. So, how com Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, etc., still holds any records? It was team mates and other professionals who stated they were a dopers!

Because major league baseball knows better than to condemn people without proof. I could go to the police and say you are a murderer. Does that mean they should throw you in jail and say you are guilty because I said so?

Grand Master

ahhell

Posted
Posted

Because major league baseball knows better than to condemn people without proof. I could go to the police and say you are a murderer. Does that mean they should throw you in jail and say you are guilty because I said so?

Without proof??????????

Are you high? :s

Grand Master

Growled Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

" Cheating in sport should be punished with lifetime bans and nothing less in my opinion."

Couldn't agree with that line anymore. So, how com Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, etc., still holds any records? It was team mates and other professionals who stated they were a dopers!

I totally agree. And in a lot of cases these dopers are still looked upon as "heroes."

Grand Master

Matrix XII

Posted
Posted

They came down hard and justly ripped away this cheater's wins, but most importantly, his reputation.

Good on the USADA and UCI! They have the guts to do such a thing. Others would have crumbled.

aka, baseball and other major sports.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

They came down hard and justly ripped away this cheater's wins, but most importantly, his reputation.

Good on the USADA and UCI! They have the guts to do such a thing. Others would have crumbled.

aka, baseball and other major sports.

Well Lance could effectively kill UCI if he admitted to the doping and what we already know and have "some" proof of. That UCI knew about it and participate din the doping and in hiding it. They stripped him to save their face in this disaster, but if Lance decides to drop the farce, and admit it all they're done for.

  • 2 months later...
Grand Master

linsook

Posted
Posted

Well, he is doing an interview with Oprah today. Rumour has it that he may admit to doping. News of him apologizing to the Livestrong staff before his interview is making it's rounds in the media right now. Do you think he is going to admit to doping?

http://www.google.ca...iw=1280&bih=662

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted

It's worth going back and looking at some of the earlier posts:

How is it fair? they had a witch hunt, and he just gave up dealing with their bs any longer.

He's still a hero.

Till I see actual PROOF that he doped and not the tainted "testimony" of other cheaters then it still boils down to jealousy, if the French who took pints of his blood could not find anything and I guarantee you they tested for every conceivable thing you could possibly test blood, then it's still a witch hunt, and Lance just giving up because he's tired of the BS proves nothing other than harassing a person will make them eventually give up
the real results are that Lance Armstrong crossed the finish line first. Now all of these agencies are trying to make up their own version of the results because they don't agree with how the real results were attained.

Now I'd love to think that those members would admit that they weren't being objective; that their personal biases had influenced them; that they weren't being rational in their assertions. However, experience has taught me to expect just the opposite.

  • +hedleigh and Nashy
  • Like 2
Grand Master

Astra.Xtreme

Posted
Posted

It's worth going back and looking at some of the earlier posts:

Now I'd love to think that those members would admit that they weren't being objective; that their personal biases had influenced them; that they weren't being rational in their assertions. However, experience has taught me to expect just the opposite.

Was there a point in there somewhere? What you've said doesn't even make sense...

Those people clearly said they didn't believe the speculation without discreet proof. In what way is that unreasonable? Blindly believing something makes you just as much of a fool as being proven wrong later.

Blindly believing something makes you a sheep. And experience has taught me you don't want to be just that...

Grand Master

+hedleigh Subscriber²

Posted
  • Subscriber²
Posted

Was there a point in there somewhere? What you've said doesn't even make sense...

Those people clearly said they didn't believe the speculation without discreet proof. In what way is that unreasonable? Blindly believing something makes you just as much of a fool as being proven wrong later.

Blindly believing something makes you a sheep. And experience has taught me you don't want to be just that...

He is just wondering if any of his supporters at the time will now come in and admit they were on the wrong boat. Nothing wrong with that. Seems his "experience" is proving correct.

If he'd been proven innocent, I'd have been in here to apologise to him for not believing the rhetoric that was being spouted at the time.

Takes a big person to admit they were wrong/mistaken.

Grand Master

simonlang

Posted
Posted

what comes wayyy too short in this doping discussion for me is the fact, that, despite doping, you still have to have a perfect workout/health/nutrition plan, plus the energy and determination to work out every day. and even then you only maybe will win a tour de france stage.

they way people judge armstrong someone could think it just needs some epo and everyday man can become successful in sports. i bet all these lawyers doing the which-hunt to armstrong either smoke or drink and probably prefer to use the elevator instead of the stairs to reach their offices.

to be fair, they should also take away the wins of other guys ... 2007 especially.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Let's face it, he isn't admitting anything to be nice and honest good guy, he's doing it to bring down the cycling leadership. This will hurt the whole sport and bring down the whole central organization, as he will admit how they knew about it and helped hide it.

and they deserve it. But let's not pretend he's doing it because he regrets it or anything, well he regrets something, getting caught.

Grand Master

Nashy

Posted
Posted

Tiger Woods' career isn't over. He still one of the greatest golfers in the world.

People need to forget Lance Armstrong. Not what he did, but move on. He doesn't deserve the attention he gets now. I admire his determination, and the real effort required, but he cheated. And it is that simple.

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted
Was there a point in there somewhere? What you've said doesn't even make sense...

Those people clearly said they didn't believe the speculation without discreet proof. In what way is that unreasonable?

The problem was that it wasn't "speculation" - there was comprehensive evidence that included eye witness testimony, financial transactions, blood samples and anecdotal evidence. It was enough for there to be an investigation and for him to be stripped of his titles. There's nothing wrong with being sceptical but the people I quoted went beyond that - they displayed a shocking lack of objectivity and rational thought. Instead people believed that there was a conspiracy against him, yet they believed that without any evidence and that's the issue - they'd rather believe a conspiracy without evidence than his probable?and now confirmed?guilt with evidence. Surely you see the issue with that?

If he'd been proven innocent, I'd have been in here to apologise to him for not believing the rhetoric that was being spouted at the time.

Takes a big person to admit they were wrong/mistaken.

This. If new evidence had emerged that showed there was a conspiracy to frame Lance Armstrong and that he was likely innocent then I'd have accepted that. The issue is that a lot of people base their opinions entirely on their emotions and ignore common sense and rational thought - those are usually the sort of people that would rather dig a bigger hole than accept they were mistaken.

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