What next for Steam, if Windows 8 fails?

[AngelGraves13]

Install Steam on Windows 8. Use it like any other program.

End of story.

[BillyJack]

For this post lets call video game producers VGP.

Steam is a video game delivery system. They are a middle man who makes there money off of VGP by selling their games for them. Windows 8 has a market that the VGP can use to sell there games. With the market you can sell games, provide updates, advertise, secure and the market will be on all Windows 8 computers from day one where Steam is not. Thinking about it you can realize that the Windows market has more potential then Steam. However, the VGP will not be skipping the middle man be leaving Steam and going to the Windows market. They still have to pay a fee to Microsoft. Thirty percent for a certain criteria and then 20%. I do not remember the criteria. It is a dollar amount or number of apps sold. So what will be less to the VGP. Steam or Microsoft. If Microsoft is cheaper or close to the same but with all of the pros I already suggested then you can see it is the better way to go. That is why Steam is upset and scared.

I can't imagine existing users going out and buying a new dedicated OS for playing games. The users already do that. It is called PlayStation, XBOX, PC. All three have a complete infrastructure. Hardware, drivers, OS, VGP, user base. For Steam to pull this off they have to use existing hardware or come up with new hardware, come up with their own OS or use Linux, get hardware manufacturers to handle their OS and write drivers, get the VGP to develop on their system and convince users to use their new OS or hardware. They need to put a development infrastructure together for the VGP which includes software, APIs, graphic engines etc. Direct X is Microsoft's and they will not be using that. That is a lot of stuff they have to do. For Sony and Microsoft it was easier having a diversity of products and services which gives them money they can invest. What does Steam have.

Finally the most important factor. The video game producers (VGP). Developing games cost them money. They would like to target all possible platforms as easy as possible. Developing a game for Sony, XBOX and PC costs money. It requires lots of time, specific developers, resources. Developing a game one time and having it available on all platforms would save lots of money and maximize profits. Right now it is a smart choice for VGP to develop for XBOX and PC because Microsoft makes it easy to port the game on both platforms. Then the phone came along and added a new platform at the same ease. Now throw in tablets.

Why would video game producers want to produce a game for Steam's Linux based OS that is only one platform, has no market, and does not exist and have any user base. All while Steam is asking for a cut of their profit.

The answer is easy. They don't.

[Athernar]

Can we get something straight?

From a technical standpoint, Windows 8 is a step up for gaming, not a step backwards. Performance and hardware utilisation is improved over Windows 7.

The only reason it's "bad for gaming" (and this is in quotes for a reason) is because certain companies are not happy that MS want to build their own digital sales platform into the OS. That's the end of the story. Gabe Newell is just worried that he'll lose is monopoly, basically.

Can we get something straight?

Why would Gabe Newell be worried about losing something that doesn't even exist to begin with, or worried about a store that has basically barred a large swath of Steam's catalogue by restricting the age rating to <= PEGI 16?

[BillyJack]

For instance, MS not only has to convince app developers to write apps for Metro, but they also have to convince hotels to configure all of their rooms for compatibility alongside accessories for end users. A whole ecosystem has sprung up around Apple in mobile and MS destroying their desktop OS to catchup wasn't a great idea.

What do you mean destroying their desktop. The OS does what it has always done but more. The start menu that we all know is gone but the items are not. They are now in the Metro UI as shortcuts. All the ways of starting an application still exist. Shortcuts in Metro, desktop shortcuts, hot keys, search. The operating system is completely the same but with Metro, no start menu, new metro (think of it as a menu). The OS is more modern, adds lots of features and has a market for apps. The OS still supports a mouse, keyboard, monitor, hardware, but adds touch screens and with touch capability. The OS can be used primarily as touch or mouse based. The keyboard even comes along for the ride.

So explain how Microsoft is killing the desktop OS. What does it mean hotels have to configure their rooms for compatibility alongside accessories.

[AngelGraves13]

Likely, programs will come bundled with an app version. I doubt they'll stop making desktop programs. That would be an easy way to completely destroy your business.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Microsoft have looked at Apple's iOS model, and they're besotted. Thus the move to wipe out all third party independent platforms via the in-your-face marketplace on the desktop and mobile devices. Not only that, but all application/game vendors then have to pay a fee for the privilege of featuring in said marketplace. But Google and Apple already do this critics decry. Well yes, however, that's how they were built from the get-go. Microsoft on the other hand is taking an already open application ecosystem and trying to get a slice of every purchase. I honestly can't blame Microsoft, after all its their duty to exploit their desktop monopoly to generate a return for shareholders, and that's exactly what they're trying to do - force all application purchases to go through them and as any good middle man does, take a percentage. It's just that these pesky app developers are accustomed to getting all that revenue for themselves. Have no fear Windows 8 proponents say, users can still install traditional desktop apps. Well, that's all good and well, except that the first thing users see is the startscreen and the Windows Marketplace, so naturally, they're going to take the path of least resistance - buying directly from Microsoft. It's a good business strategy for Microsoft. Not so much for app developers or users though, who inevitably end up getting ripped off.

In truth, a lot of application developers have sealed their own fate here. By exclusively developing for the Windows platform and ignoring all other os', they've tied themselves to Microsoft come rain or shine, and from the looks of things, a category ten storm's approaching.

Now, as far as Steam is concerned, Windows 8 is a direct threat to its business model, so is it any wonder that Gabe's seeking to extricate his platform from the Windows ecosystem? He's already got a head start because of the OS X support, so it's only a natural progression to support the GNU/Linux OS. Furthermore, supporting GNU/Linux opens up all kinds of possibilities such as a dedicated hardware platform aka the SteamBox without the need to develop an OS from scratch, something that requires years to develop and vast sums of money to produce. Then of course there's the potential for oem bundle deals. Buy a new PC with Ubuntu 12.10 and Steam preinstalled, perfect for gamers of all ages. I can see a lot of potential here.

Apple's app market success was the result of the iPhone, iPod, and iPad. Basically, any device that can be used to purchase apps through iTunes. Microsoft, on the other hand, hasn't been as successful with their mobile devices. Their strength lies with the Xbox Live marketplace. They tried gaining a foothold in PC gaming with the Games for Windows - Live service and that didn't work out. Now, they're trying to secure a piece of the Windows app pie with the Windows 8 Marketplace. Whether it's a success or not remains to be seen but their attempt is disconcerting.

What I don't understand is how the Windows 8 Marketplace is a direct threat to Steam in terms of gaming software. A lot of people have invested in Steam so I doubt they'd see the marketplace as a viable alternative. Also, developers may not even have their games added to that marketplace. We already know the issues between EA and Valve regarding certain games (e.g. Battlefield 3 and Medal of Honor: Warfighter). In case you don't, Valve doesn't allow those games on Steam because they use external services like Battlelog.

Also, what makes the Windows 8 Marketplace even less of a threat is this:

5.1 Your app must not contain adult content, and metadata must be appropriate for everyone

Apps with a rating over PEGI 16, ESRB MATURE, or that contain content that would warrant such a rating, are not allowed. Metadata and other content you submit to accompany your app may contain only content that would merit a rating of PEGI 12, ESRB EVERYONE, or Windows Store 12+, or lower.

http://msdn.microsof...s/hh694083.aspx

That means we won't be seeing a lot of major games in the Windows 8 Marketplace.

As for Valve supporting other operating systems, I think it's great that they're doing it. I just don't see them abandoning Windows in favour of Linux or Mac OS. The majority of Steam users still use a Windows operating system (59.70% use Windows 7 64-bit, 14.20% use Windows 6 32-bit [total: 74.90%]). I can see why Gabe Newell would be worried about the Windows 8 Marketplace in terms of selling software though. Valve has just stared selling software through Steam. If I remember correctly, they started doing it at the beginning of this month.

With heavy incentives of protection against piracy developers could be persuaded... it does sound unlikely the more I think of it, though. What's the other thing then? Phantom tried to stuff a desktop PC in a console sized box, backed by download service quite like Steam is now. Valve has got money Phantom didn't and the service is already running. Well, makes sense.

I must have drunk too much tea :wacko:

Piracy isn't too big of an issue with Steam titles because of Steam Anti-Piracy. What I see Valve doing is making an all-in-one gaming device (which uses standard PC hardware) with support for gaming on a monitor or TV (Steam Big Picture mode). Also, support for a controller that will work with most major games. I see them catering to existing users by doing that rather than forcing people to change their OS to get a better experience.

yeah, but 40 bucks for improvements to performance, better stability, and the extras (DX11) even if not widely supported, all sound like a good deal to me.

why the rush NOT to upgrade, really?

It's very tempting to upgrade for just $40 but as I said, I'm happy with Windows 7. I don't have a DX11 video card (Radeon HD 4870) so I won't benefit from upgrading for the sake of gaming. I also dislike the Modern UI and the direction Microsoft is taking with Modern apps.

People can't seem to see past their noses. Gabe is right and so are the likes of other devs and users, such as Corvini. Microsoft has sent a shot across the bow of their partners and their partners are now scrambling for the exits; rightfully so.

Of course, Windows 8 isn't going to kill the market for game companies or even companies like Valve, but Microsoft has said they are killing that market sooner versus later. That change could be in Windows 9 (in 2 years) or Windows 10 (in 4 years), but either way the industry needs to scramble for a future without Microsoft at its center. Since such a monumental transition takes time the work is beginning here and now and the end result will be arriving around the same time as Windows 9 or Windows 10. The major question for Microsoft is centered around can they become Apple, sadly I don't think they can.

I think Microsoft will be successful with Windows 8-n, but I don't think they will be the market leader anymore. The desktop market will eventually cede to Linux as MS continues to try to turn it into an appliance and Apple will continue to define mobile; largely because their lead has become staggering.

For instance, MS not only has to convince app developers to write apps for Metro, but they also have to convince hotels to configure all of their rooms for compatibility alongside accessories for end users. A whole ecosystem has sprung up around Apple in mobile and MS destroying their desktop OS to catchup wasn't a great idea.

For the most part, I agree with you. No matter how big Microsoft is, they can't dictate the next shift in computer usage. I think their current vision for desktop computing is somewhat flawed but only time will tell if people accept it or reject it. For now, it looks like a lot of tech savvy users and PC gamers are rejecting it.

Can we get something straight?

From a technical standpoint, Windows 8 is a step up for gaming, not a step backwards. Performance and hardware utilisation is improved over Windows 7.

The only reason it's "bad for gaming" (and this is in quotes for a reason) is because certain companies are not happy that MS want to build their own digital sales platform into the OS. That's the end of the story. Gabe Newell is just worried that he'll lose is monopoly, basically.

It's only a step up because of its support for DX11.1. Aside from that, performance is nearly identical with current games.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

What do you mean destroying their desktop. The OS does what it has always done but more. The start menu that we all know is gone but the items are not. They are now in the Metro UI as shortcuts. All the ways of starting an application still exist. Shortcuts in Metro, desktop shortcuts, hot keys, search. The operating system is completely the same but with Metro, no start menu, new metro (think of it as a menu). The OS is more modern, adds lots of features and has a market for apps. The OS still supports a mouse, keyboard, monitor, hardware, but adds touch screens and with touch capability. The OS can be used primarily as touch or mouse based. The keyboard even comes along for the ride.

So explain how Microsoft is killing the desktop OS. What does it mean hotels have to configure their rooms for compatibility alongside accessories.

I'm not talking about Windows 8 exclusively. As I suggested in my original post, the industry is looking at this on the long tail. The long-term picture here is that Microsoft is killing the desktop in hopes of capturing the mobile market. There just isn't any other way to see this shift; compatibility between keyboards aren't the issue here.

For starters, the MS Store becoming front and center in the OS with MS taking a huge cut (as much as 30%) of app sales puts them in direct competition with a large number of their partners and really hammers their ISVs. This also pollutes the waters heavily... As MS makes more and more money from the MS store they will squeeze more and more through that funnel. The biggest message from MS to anyone making Windows software is that Windows is now a closed platform and you need to transition to a closed ecosystem if you want to stay in it. Some companies, like Valve, can't make that transition and they need to pull off and we're seeing that.

MS could have pursued a dual OS strategy, in reality they still are, but they chose to confuse consumers and their partners in the race to use the desktop to win mobile. I just think they went so far that they may have lost the desktop and mobile as a result (over the long term, not talking about Windows dying with Windows 8).

MS has three OSs they are targeting at mobile all the while claiming they are unifying the mobile strategy...

1. Windows 8 - This will run on x86 hardware and allows backward compatibility with Existing Windows software and will run on tablets like the Surface Pro.

2. Windows 8 RT - Windows 8 on ARM without any of the backward compatibility.

3. Windows Phone 8 - Not Windows 8 at all, but looks similar.

They have application compatibility with 1 & 2 (Metro apps only) and 3 is on an island all by itself. You can easily port your app from 3 to 1 & 2, but they aren't out of the box compatible. This whole launch is a huge mess.

[Wakers]

It's only a step up because of its support for DX11.1. Aside from that, performance is nearly identical with current games.

So..that's a step up, right?

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

So..that's a step up, right?

Did I say it was a step down? See, I can ask rhetorical questions too.

[Wakers]

Yes, I'm glad you have that skill. Not sure why that needed to be pointed out.

[ahhell]

It always makes me laugh. Linux will NEVER catch on as a "Windows alternative". When are you guys going to realize that?

Devs go where they can make money. There's no money in Linux.

[Noir Angel]

Valve aren't abandoning Windows at all, they're just trying to give those of us that are disillusioned with the direction Microsoft are taking alternatives by trying to make their games run in Linux. It's a source of some intense amusement to me that Valve giving their gamers alternatives makes Microsoft shills Angry, that's what good developers do.

[WinMunkee]

Valve giving up WIndows is like Gabe giving up cake.

[Dashel]

Semi-related article I liked on the big picture

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/oped-if-microsoft-adopts-apples-app-strategy-its-better-to-follow-os-x-than-ios/

"Windows 8 won't be the operating system that brings a full-fledged shift away from the open desktop model. But in the long run?perhaps in Windows 9 or 10?it's possible Windows 7-style software will be restricted to niche and legacy applications. We can hope that Microsoft relaxes its restrictions on the Windows Store, and that the desktop remains open and vibrant, but we can't count on it."

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Semi-related article I liked on the big picture

http://arstechnica.c...-os-x-than-ios/

"Windows 8 won't be the operating system that brings a full-fledged shift away from the open desktop model. But in the long run?perhaps in Windows 9 or 10?it's possible Windows 7-style software will be restricted to niche and legacy applications. We can hope that Microsoft relaxes its restrictions on the Windows Store, and that the desktop remains open and vibrant, but we can't count on it."

Nice to see someone else who finally understands my point ;)