Problem with Clock in Win 8 Pro

[Wakers]

Can someone help me out here? When I turned my PC on at 0907 this morning, Windows said the time was 0038 (which is probably the time that I turned the PC off). Whenever I boot into Windows 8, the time is wrong. If the computer sleeps for a while, the time will again be wrong. If I update it via the sync option in Windows, the time is corrected and stays correct until I shut down the PC.

The time is correct in the BIOS (and is always correct) and it's a new motherboard (less than 2 months old).

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]

? 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Ian>C:\Windows\system32\w32tm /tz

Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_STANDARD Bias: -60min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)

[standard Name:"Central Europe Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]

[Daylight Name:"Central Europe Summer Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]

C:\Users\Ian>

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[+BudMan MVC]

So again - when you say you turned on your pc this morning. Was it from a cold OFF state - or was it in standby/hibernate/hybrid?

You do mention "If the computer sleeps for a while"

I am going to guess you were is some standby sort of thing - have seen such issues in that case, but never from a full off state.

Is your bios in UTC time or local? Have you set

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation\RealTimeIsUniversal

[Wakers]

I think I've caused a bit of confusion.

It happens from a fully OFF state. Yesterday it happened after the computer had gone into sleep for 3 hours while we were out. It hasn't happened today though, despite the computer being in sleep for a similar duration.

The time in BIOS is set to local. I'll check the registry entry.

UPDATE:

Regarding registry entry, I don't have that key. I can get all the way down to TimeZoneInformation, but there's no sub folder called RealTimeIsUniversal, nor is there a key with that name within TimeZoneInformation.

[+BudMan MVC]

You have to create the key if your bios is in UTC - but since your local you don't need that key.

Never seen it from OFF state - OS should grab its time from bios on boot. So if your bios is correct, and your OS is booting from cold off it makes no sense that the clock would not be current upon boot. It being the time that it was put into standby/hibernate makes some sense - but OFF no.

you sure it didn't go into some standby mode vs OFF?

Turn it off - note time, leave it off for say 15 or so minutes - turn it on. Is the time correct or 15 minutes off?

[Wakers]

I'm going out again now so I'll do just that.

It's definitely off (Alt + F4, select Shut Down, click OK) and the BIOS clock is definitely correct and in local time. I'll post back later.

I have also tried setting the time server manually to one here in Switzerland to see if that fixes the problem.

[Wakers]

So when I turned the PC on again, it had the same time as when I shut it down.

I might just replace the CMOS battery to rule it out. Have to find one first, though.

[Elliot B.]

  On 29/10/2012 at 20:36, Wakers said:

So when I turned the PC on again, it had the same time as when I shut it down.

I might just replace the CMOS battery to rule it out. Have to find one first, though.

Yeah, I would try changing the CMOS battery if you can. You never need to mess with the registry to adjust the time.

[+BudMan MVC]

If it was cmos battery when you went into the bios your time and date would be like 1980 or something. And then even then it should only happen if you lost power to the box, and relied on cmos battery to keep your rtc current.

It is NOT your cmos batter that is for sure. As to what the problem is - not sure. So when you turned it on, you watched it go through bios post and everything - your 100% sure it wasn't coming out of standby or hibernate or some hybrid state?

if your time is not updated when you turn off and then back on - I have to assume your bios clock is not being read by the OS for some reason... Why I have no idea.. Does your MB actually support Windows 8? What computer is this on, what specific MB and bios version?

If when you boot your computer your time is the same as when it was turned off - that tells me its not reading the RTC that is used to keep time while the OS is not booted. So that when it boots it can get the time - you state that your bios is time is correct?

Maybe this is NOT the case?? Turn your computer off, wait say 15 minutes. Pull the plug on the power even. Now before booting in to any OS go directly into the bios - is the time and date correct? If so then your RTC and cmos battery are fine. And something in the OS is not reading this when it boots up.

[Wakers]

100% sure it did not come out of any hibernate or hybrid state.

The mobo is an ASRocks Extreme 4M. I don't know the BIOS version, I'll check it shortly.

Something I noticed that I should have noticed before - the BIOS clock has the correct time when I boot the computer (I left it off for five minutes before turning back on) BUT - as soon as I get into BIOS, the BIOS time is stuck. Which to me says that it's a battery issue, however it's a very weird representation of it. If I reboot and get back into the BIOS, the clock has advanced by several seconds but once again does not update.

What do you make of that?

[+BudMan MVC]

What it does not update in real time while your looking at it? That seems odd, but different Bioses do it different. Some don't always update like clock on the wall, etc.

How it is being stuck - while plugged into the WALL power a battery issue? cmos Battery is only used if there is NO WALL Power.. It does not run off the battery when there is wall power.

I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have had to replace a cmos battery - And those were OLD AS THE HILLs machines.. And clearly simple enough to see the problem. Laptop - pull the main battery, and then replace and boot and date was 1980.

**** I had an old P3 800mhz box that was 10 years old or something, and it was still working fine with cmos battery.

If the box does not loose wall power, you could run on a dead cmos would not matter. Shoot most of them these days are soldered in place and would be a PITA to replace.

I had a OLD OLD Machine one time, either a 286 or even an 8086 that had to replace the cmos battery with a couple of AA batteries - bought a case and soldered on the leads because they didn't make the batteries, etc. That was ages ago.

If you cmos batter was dead - pull the plug from the wall and then turn the computer back on and you would know -- because your date would be reset. If it doesn't do that then your cmos battery is not the problem.

Now could you have an issue with your MB or RTC on it - sure anything is possible. Strange - but possible. Put windows 7 back on it - do you have the same issue?

[Wakers]

Yea, it's a desktop so obviously it's always plugged into a wall socket? Was that what you were asking?

The BIOS clock does not update in real time.

I would have thought that if it were a battery issue, the BIOS time would not update at all, and also the date would be wrong?

There is a beta BIOS out for the mobo that specifically mentions support for Windows 8, so I'm thinking of trying that. BUT, an important question is, if the CMOS battery is flakey, will that cause a high chance of the BIOS flash failing and bricking the motherboard?

[+BudMan MVC]

How old is this machine - is it 5+ years? 10 even?

Again your computer is connected to constant power through the wall socket - is it not?? Then again the cmos battery does not come into play.

If there is a bios update that mentions windows 8, I highly doubt your board is anywhere close to having an issue with cmos battery in the first place - they last years and years and years!! They do pretty much nothing these days other than keep the clock running when there is no wall power. They don't store bios info anymore, and have not for years. This is stored in a different type of flash now, not the old school "CMOS RAM" of yesteryear.

Again you could run without it even - the only pain with that would be that if you removed power from your computer then the date and time would reset to like jan 1, 1980. If you not resetting back to some date in the past when you remove power from your computer then there is nothing wrong with your cmos battery.

Run your bios update - do you have a link to this? Does it give details of what it fixes or allows for?

[f0rk_b0mb]

Replace your CMOS battery. I know some say it won't help, but there's no risk in trying it. Was it fine before you you updated to the beta bios?

[Wakers]

So to update.

@ Budman - the machine is newly built, it's not two months old.

Last night things took a turn for the worse - I needed to restart the computer for updates and then it just would no longer boot. I was getting "required device not found" and then sometimes a Windows boot manager error. I had to go into the BIOS and tell it to boot from the SSD (which it should have been doing anyway) in order for it to boot. Each time I restarted, I had to forceably tell it to boot from the SSD, despite it being the 1st in the boot sequence list.

So today I went out and got a new CMOS battery anyway. It's a cheap thing to replace if it saves me sending the motherboard back and being without a PC for a couple of weeks. I installed it - lo and behold! The BIOS clock now actually counts the seconds. The time in Windows is correct and stays correct, the boot errors disappear and my wireless adapter no longer randomly disables itself (I didn't know that was related but apparently it was!)

So, all fixed. It was the CMOS battery. I've had a look at the old one, it doesn't appear to have leaked, it just seems to have lost its charge.

[Shane Nokes]

I can't count the number of times I've seen this happen and had to argue it was the battery, but no one would listen.

Glad you were able to fix it. :)

[Wakers]

I also thought I'd test out what Budman was saying about the CMOS not being required to boot if it's plugged into the wall socket - I guess it depends on the motherboard, because it would absolutely not boot without any battery in. Didn't even get any beeps out of it. This isn't even a budget motherboard, it's a solid mid-range one too.

Half a second of a fan whirring and then dead.

[+BudMan MVC]

So your 2 month old MB cmos battery was low on charge? that the working theory? Because if it was dead, then it wouldn't keep time when not connected to wall power. And now you say it doesn't boot at all with battery out? Guess that is possible that is not making a connection that needs to be made - even if there is no juice in it, etc. Modern day computers do not require it to store bios settings -- see below link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonvolatile_BIOS_memory

Well I can state that in the 30+ years I have been playing with computers I have never seen such a thing - ever.

Glad you got it sorted - but It makes no sense that a 2 month old battery would be bad. And since your saying bios kept time when removed from wall power, how does that make any sense that it did not have charge?

[Wakers]

It obviously had some charge because it would allow the computer to boot. I say it appeared to be in low charge because the time in the BIOS did not update once the PC had been turned on. It was stuck. Add to that the failure to boot, and not being able to find the SSD it was obviously required for quite a lot of information. The mobo is an ASRocks Extreme 4M (z77 chipset), a model that I do not believe has even been available for two years. I bought it two months ago. I can only assume that it's a one in a few thousand case of being a dud battery.

And fwiw, as soon as I put the new battery in I had to reset all of my BIOS settings. It even states in the mobo manual that this is necessary once a new battery has been installed - however I did not clear the CMOS itself.

I did an experiment seeing as I had some time this evening, I put the old battery back in. All of the symptoms come back. The bios clock was stuck (albeit this time at 00:10:00) the bios settings were all back to defaults, the computer would not boot without being told to boot from the SSD and my wireless adapter had to plugged and unplugged several times before working.

So.. CMOS batters are more important than they may appear!

[+BudMan MVC]

Well there is always something new to experience - again glad you got it sorted. Clearly your MB maker is using it for more than what they are normally used for in the modern age.

Must of been bad from the getgo if your MB is only 2 months old - they should last 2 to 10 years from everything I have read. And in the 30+ years I have been playing/working with computers I can count on 1 hand the times I have had to replace them. So 2 years is on the very low bad range that is for sure, I would say more like 5 to 10, with closer to 10 being the norm ;)

So you can slap my ass and call me sally on this one ;)

[Wakers]

I've been working with computers for about ten years now, and that's only the second time I've had to replace one. The first time was on an old Pentium 2 machine that actually gave blue screens with a CMOS error. The machine was seven years old at that point.

This is the first time I've ever had to replace a battery on one of my personal machines. I do seem to have the most terrible luck with my own machines, I get all sorts of stupid stuff happening.

I've had to RMA parts, I've had a GPU that started smoking within two minutes of it being in a machine. I've had an AMD 965 BE that decided it would somehow manage to burn itself and the motherboard despite having a working heatsink and an adequate covering of thermal paste.

I've had a transistor pop on a ?300 motherboard a month after warrenty ended.

And I build all these machines for people who have no idea what they're doing and none of them have any hardware problems!