Dot Matrix Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Those are horrible examples. A rotary dialer is not faster than a keypad, but the start menu in some cases is faster than the start screen. Nothing is faster than Search, and the Start Screen has that. That and app pinning are the only things you should ever need in an app launcher. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmc Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Those are horrible examples. A rotary dialer is not faster than a keypad, but the start menu in some cases is faster than the start screen. The large dial on the television, or the rotary on the phone, could easily be argued to be faster than digital buttons, in some special cases. I still believe that they're perfectly apt. In fact, I think you've helped to show why they are better examples than I had even intended. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order_66 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I don't even know why the zealots even defend windows 8 anymore, at the retail level we are seeing sales of new pcs have hit a brick wall mostly due to windows 8 and that abortion of a start screen. Windows 8 is not a consumer friendly OS by any means, the average consumer wants a start menu, they want to be able to boot their machine and go to work without having to learn keyboard shortcuts or having to find hidden menus or anything else the 'metro' garbage has to offer them, I can't count how many customers who see 'metro' for the first time literally back up and away from the computer and go somewhere else, it happens countless time every day. MFH, +hedleigh and +Warwagon 3 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I don't even know why the zealots even defend windows 8 anymore, at the retail level we are seeing sales of new pcs have hit a brick wall mostly due to windows 8 and that abortion of a start screen. Windows 8 is not a consumer friendly OS by any means, the average consumer wants a start menu, they want to be able to boot their machine and go to work without having to learn keyboard shortcuts or having to find hidden menus or anything else the 'metro' garbage has to offer them, I can't count how many customers who see 'metro' for the first time literally back up and away from the computer and go somewhere else, it happens countless time every day. You continue to say that, but continue to post no credible sources. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted February 15, 2013 Member Share Posted February 15, 2013 Windows 8 is not a consumer friendly OS by any means, the average consumer wants a start menu, they want to be able to boot their machine and go to work without having to learn keyboard shortcuts or having to find hidden menus or anything else the 'metro' garbage has to offer them, I can't count how many customers who see 'metro' for the first time literally back up and away from the computer and go somewhere else, it happens countless time every day. I go into Best Buy just to watch it happen. It's hilarious. A lot of people hate Windows 8. +Warwagon and Order_66 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order_66 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 You continue to say that, but continue to post no credible sources. It's real easy to back up, simply go to your nearest best buy, microcenter, staples etc and watch it with your own eyes, or should I take video for you and post it here? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGeorge Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Bought two licenses to Start8 recently so nuff said! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted February 15, 2013 Author MVC Share Posted February 15, 2013 It's real easy to back up, simply go to your nearest best buy, microcenter, staples etc and watch it with your own eyes, or should I take video for you and post it here? Yes make a video and post it. That would rock. Growled 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order_66 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Yes make a video and post it. That would rock. That would be hilarious, might take me a few days to set it all up though but I have been considering doing this for quite a while now lol Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rose Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 We have the Start Menu, it's size has just changed. I really don't see why there is so much negative reaction. No baiting, I just see why people are saying it's so bad. It's just bigger and the icons can now have additional info, nbd. Or is there something I am missing in the complains? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted February 15, 2013 Member Share Posted February 15, 2013 That would be hilarious, might take me a few days to set it all up though but I have been considering doing this for quite a while now lol Excellent idea and it will be hilarious. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelvinguy85 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I don't miss it because I used to pin all the programs I used to the taskbar in win 7 so I just pin them all to the start menu and I,m away. it was a bit strange at first not seeing it there but I,m used to it now Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xWhiplash Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Again.....Start Screen search is slower than Start Menu search, so that argument is invalid as well. Windows 7 - Go to Start and begin typing control panel. There is it. Windows 8 - Windows key and start typing control panel - click settings - and there it is. Yeah, Start Screen searching is MUCH FASTER than Start Menu :rolleyes: Requiring an extra step already means it is slower. Or are we just changing the definition of fast and slow here? Let's get real guys. There is NO DISADVANTAGE at ALL for providing an option. I have a keyboard and mouse, and always will unless something because available to read our minds or something. I will NOT do programming, video editing, photoshop, illustrator, audio editing, and play call of duty (just a game as an example) on a 30" touch screen monitor. I will not have my hands up all day programming on a tough screen monitor. I will not have my hands up all day manipulating photos when I do a better job with a precision mouse. I will not be manipulating audio to the millisecond with a touch screen monitor, a mouse gives me more precision. If you can do your jobs with a touch screen, great. But I cannot. So again, there is absolutely no disadvantage to providing an option to the user. If it absolutely has to be forced, then only force it on users that DO have touch screen monitors. "How can computing advance?" - Umm.......I do not have anything but a standard monitor, keyboard, and mouse. What good is it to force me when I do not have the stuff to take advantage of it? That is why I said, if NO touch screen devices are detected during install, give the user a choice. You do realize this will make Windows 8 a major success, right? Look at all the people complaining. Windows 8 has enough under the hood changes to be more beneficial than Windows 7 even without messing with the new UI. So what is the big deal? Why does it have to be forced on me when I do NOT have the hardware to take advantage of it? What good does it do? Please explain to me what is so absolutely, end of the world, about providing a built-in start menu as a choice? Again, the "computing cannot evolve" argument does not work because, like myself, many people do not have the hardware to take advantage of it. +hedleigh and MFH 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hedleigh Subscriber² Posted February 15, 2013 Subscriber² Share Posted February 15, 2013 <snipped> So what is the big deal? Why does it have to be forced on me when I do NOT have the hardware to take advantage of it? What good does it do? Please explain to me what is so absolutely, end of the world, about providing a built-in start menu as a choice? Again, the "computing cannot evolve" argument does not work because, like myself, many people do not have the hardware to take advantage of it. Question has been asked a number of times and hasn't been answered as yet! Hard to answer it without proving yourself to be against user choice I suppose. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595522786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick H. Supervisor Posted February 15, 2013 Supervisor Share Posted February 15, 2013 The large dial on the television, or the rotary on the phone, could easily be argued to be faster than digital buttons, in some special cases. :blink: Have you ever used a rotary phone before? I would love to hear about these "special cases" that are quicker with a rotary phone than a dialpad. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Again.....Start Screen search is slower than Start Menu search, so that argument is invalid as well. Windows 7 - Go to Start and begin typing control panel. There is it. Windows 8 - Windows key and start typing control panel - click settings - and there it is. Yeah, Start Screen searching is MUCH FASTER than Start Menu :rolleyes: Requiring an extra step already means it is slower. Or are we just changing the definition of fast and slow here? Typed c-o-n, and it's the first option on the APPS screen. Not sure where you're getting this from, but it's not true. I will NOT do programming, video editing, photoshop, illustrator, audio editing, and play call of duty (just a game as an example) on a 30" touch screen monitor. I will not have my hands up all day programming on a tough screen monitor. I will not have my hands up all day manipulating photos when I do a better job with a precision mouse. I will not be manipulating audio to the millisecond with a touch screen monitor, a mouse gives me more precision. If you can do your jobs with a touch screen, great. But I cannot. So again, there is absolutely no disadvantage to providing an option to the user. If it absolutely has to be forced, then only force it on users that DO have touch screen monitors. "How can computing advance?" - Umm.......I do not have anything but a standard monitor, keyboard, and mouse. What good is it to force me when I do not have the stuff to take advantage of it? That is why I said, if NO touch screen devices are detected during install, give the user a choice. You do realize this will make Windows 8 a major success, right? Look at all the people complaining. Windows 8 has enough under the hood changes to be more beneficial than Windows 7 even without messing with the new UI. So what is the big deal? Why does it have to be forced on me when I do NOT have the hardware to take advantage of it? What good does it do? Please explain to me what is so absolutely, end of the world, about providing a built-in start menu as a choice? Again, the "computing cannot evolve" argument does not work because, like myself, many people do not have the hardware to take advantage of it. Also, I'm not sure where you get this crazy idea that Metro is touch only, and it's taking away your keyboard. My keyboard works just fine in Windows 8 and Windows RT. ;) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xWhiplash Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Typed c-o-n, and it's the first option on the APPS screen. Not sure where you're getting this from, but it's not true. Also, I'm not sure where you get this crazy idea that Metro is touch only, and it's taking away your keyboard. My keyboard works just fine in Windows 8 and Windows RT. ;) The desktop stuff is not shown there, that is why settings is on that list. But like I said, the Start Menu showed everything without having to click a category. That is fine, but it annoys the hell out of me to use keyboard and mouse with the new UI. You do know people like and do things differently right? So again, what is so absolutely horrible, end of the world, about giving the user a choice. Installers should be able to detect if a touch device is connected. If one is NOT FOUND, give users a choice on what they want to do. How is that hurting anyone? Computing would not be "stuck" and the world would not end as you guys keep saying because I, and many others, do not have the hardware for all of this to be MORE beneficial than the traditional desktop. There is NO advantage to desktop users.....NONE. Dealing with hot corners, having a 30" start screen, having to click Desktop every time (which I restart a lot so I have to do that a lot, I do not care if you NEVER EVER restart your system, but I DO and many others DO). Dealing with clients that forget where to shut down, even if I have told them a dozen times because when you use an older system, your habit comes back. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The desktop stuff is not shown there, that is why settings is on that list. But like I said, the Start Menu showed everything without having to click a category. That is fine, but it annoys the hell out of me to use keyboard and mouse with the new UI. You do know people like and do things differently right? So again, what is so absolutely horrible, end of the world, about giving the user a choice. Installers should be able to detect if a touch device is connected. If one is NOT FOUND, give users a choice on what they want to do. How is that hurting anyone? Computing would not be "stuck" and the world would not end as you guys keep saying because I, and many others, do not have the hardware for all of this to be MORE beneficial than the traditional desktop. There is NO advantage to desktop users.....NONE. Dealing with hot corners, having a 30" start screen, having to click Desktop every time (which I restart a lot so I have to do that a lot, I do not care if you NEVER EVER restart your system, but I DO and many others DO). Dealing with clients that forget where to shut down, even if I have told them a dozen times because when you use an older system, your habit comes back. There's no choice because Microsoft felt ready for a new step in pace. They're ready for something new. Whether you want to follow that or not is up to you, but there's dozens of new technologies out there, that can't play nice with the desktop UI. Point and click was great in the 90's but today, there's more than that, and it where people want to go. You have touch, motion, augmented reality, etc, while other technologies have yet to be invented. You say you don't see an advantage, but I do. Metro and Windows RT have opened up more doors for Microsoft than continuing with the dull desktop GUI (Just look at Surface). If you want to hide behind windows full of code, that's great, but the vast majority of users don't want that. They want something quick and easy to use, so they can be on with their day. Again, My keyboard works great with Windows 8. It's not going away at all, but this notion that we have to spend our days pointing and clicking away at 10px x 10px UI elements is old and tired. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashel Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It's like asking if a large dial should be put back on television sets to change the channel. Or, asking if telephones should go back to using rotary dialers. No, it's dated and irrelevant. Funny, thats more akin to what the removal did that the opposite. Bad metaphor. If all we 'needed' was search and an app launch we'd have chosen a Mac FFS. That Windows went beyond such simplistic hooey is why its the dominant Desktop platform. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted February 15, 2013 Author MVC Share Posted February 15, 2013 Typed c-o-n, and it's the first option on the APPS screen. Not sure where you're getting this from, but it's not true. Start Screen WTF!!! Start Menu - Musi Start Menu - Music Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Funny, thats more akin to what the removal did that the opposite. Bad metaphor. If all we 'needed' was search and an app launch we'd have chosen a Mac FFS. That Windows went beyond such simplistic hooey is why its the dominant Desktop platform. Actually, he's dead on. Compared to old, rotary phones, today's phone allow us to see missed messages and missed calls. It brings us information, much like the new Start Screen does compared to the old Start Menu. Start Screen WTF!!! Start Menu What exactly are you searching for? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerax Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'm totally indifferent, now. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted February 15, 2013 Author MVC Share Posted February 15, 2013 What exactly are you searching for? The word music, i assumed it was blatantly obvious from the screen shot(s) MFH and +hedleigh 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 No, I want it on OS X. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The word music, i assumed it was blatantly obvious from the screen shot(s) Ok. So you're using such a broad term, to make what point exactly? Ryster 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/page/10/#findComment-595523668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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