win8 Common sense fixes to Windows 8

[BajiRav]

But why hide the "All apps" menu in the first place? Why isn't visible on the button on the screen somewhere?

because the idea is that you don't use it all the time? Pin what you need to start or taskbar and be done with it. Your tech support scenario has no bearing on UI design otherwise we will need a dedicated button on start for device manager, antivirus etc etc.

[psionicinversion]

maybe windows 8 is the first iteration in creating an OS that is touch friendly whilst also using keyboard of mouse to. There are all in one computers with big touchscreen and use keyboard and mouse to type and some stuff around now, so because touchscreens will be the future, having an OS that you can do both could speed up productivity. Its not just for business and that, you could do work and computer at home then let your child draw stuff with paint, prolly a program where they need to touch sections which colours it in. My friend gives her 3 year old child her phone to play with and thats touchscreen so they'll be more used to that by the time they grow up.

All this touchscreen tech and stuff is a stepping stone to holographic display and input which will be touch/gesture controlled. So stop thinking its all bad, this is heading towards the next generation of input, and ya cant wait for the tech to come out then slap some buggy crappy piece of crap to run it cus it wont work. needs to evolve over time mistake will be made, UI improved etc. think to the future not just present

[c.grz]

By clutter you mean icons for key functionality of an OS?

That's an opinion. I like the "non-cluttered" look of the start screen. Just the shortcuts I need and nothing more. And on the off chance that one is missing; I go to "All apps" and select the ones I want and boom.

[+Warwagon MVC]

That's an opinion. I like the "non-cluttered" look of the start screen. Just the shortcuts I need and nothing more. And on the off chance that one is missing; I go to "All apps" and select the ones I want and boom.

Then how about, on by screen by default, but an option to turn it off for people like you.

[f0rk_b0mb]

I can think of very few tasks where you "need" more than two or three windows open at any given time. My work rarely requires more than two. The rest can sit off the side of the screen, and wait for me to come back to them.

Now, unless you're some hotshot, "power user" still stuck in the past, pretending that a zillion and one things cluttered all over the screen, is "cool", and somehow makes you think you're better than everyone else, Metro will work for you, and does not prohibit any kind of productivity. It also adds functionality you'll never get on the desktop. It's just a different way of displaying and using what we've already learned from using Windows these past 20 years.

What I have open right now:

1. Chrome

2. Homework in a word document

3. Foobar2k

It's very easy to do and you don't have to be a power user to do it. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that it should be hell for other people to do. Everything else you said is quite ignorant.

[Dot Matrix]

Then how about, on by screen by default, but an option to turn it off for people like you.

All it takes is one click from the Search Charm to access anywhere in the OS, compared to the two you need to make in Windows 7. One click is not that big of a deal, no matter what anyone says. If you're that bothered by a single click, then I almost feel sorry for you.

It's bad design to fill the screen with clutter. If you've noticed, Microsoft has been cleaning up the UI system wide for some time now. Nothing is on the screen that doesn't need to be.

[f0rk_b0mb]

Nor does research, nor does coding, nor does graphic design, and nor does note taking. ;)

Yes it does...minus the note takeing....

[threetonesun]

What I have open right now:

1. Chrome

2. Homework in a word document

3. Foobar2k

It's very easy to do and you don't have to be a power user to do it. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that it should be hell for other people to do. Everything else you said is quite ignorant.

Except, you can have a music player open, and split screen a browser and Word in Modern just as well. The odds that you're inputting data into all three applications at once is ... slim.

[Dot Matrix]

What I have open right now:

1. Chrome

2. Homework in a word document

3. Foobar2k

It's very easy to do and you don't have to be a power user to do it. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that it should be hell for other people to do. Everything else you said is quite ignorant.

I have multiple things "open" right now too. However, as the screenshot above shows, no more than two windows on screen at a time. In fact, all my open stuff is all maximized. I windowed Explorer and Word just for the purpose of that screenshot.

You can easily have those same apps open at the same time, even if they were Metro.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Regarding login being unintuitive:

The first thing most people will do is click somewhere.

I have to revise this. You can also hit a key. There is no action you can take that won't bring up the login pane except unplugging the computer.

[Hitman2000]

regardless of wheter you think win 8 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you have to admit 1 thing;

people in general dont like change, xp still has some 20% marketshare 12 years on.... and that has only really fallen in the last few years, for best part of a decade few hundred million comps where running xp.

win 8 is a big change in lots of minds, so there will always be resistance whether its justified or not.

add to that some genuine frustrating aspects combined with negative reviews and you have another vista debacle waiting to happen...

[zhangm Supervisor]

win 8 is a big change in lots of minds, so there will always be resistance whether its justified or not.

add to that some genuine frustrating aspects combined with negative reviews and you have another vista debacle waiting to happen...

If it weren't a big change, people would simply claim that 8 was a service pack that they were charged for.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

If it weren't a big change, people would simply claim that 8 was a service pack that they were charged for.

so windows 95 to ME/2000? :rofl:

[xWhiplash]

I can think of very few tasks where you "need" more than two or three windows open at any given time. My work rarely requires more than two. The rest can sit off the side of the screen, and wait for me to come back to them.

Now, unless you're some hotshot, "power user" still stuck in the past, pretending that a zillion and one things cluttered all over the screen, is "cool", and somehow makes you think you're better than everyone else, Metro will work for you, and does not prohibit any kind of productivity. It also adds functionality you'll never get on the desktop. It's just a different way of displaying and using what we've already learned from using Windows these past 20 years.

Um, there are jobs that require you to compare to things at once. How can you EASILY accomplish this? Oh yeah, to see them BOTH AT ONCE. Need recreate a PDF in InDesign almost perfectly? Can you imaging having to tab out thousands of times during your work day so you can compare the two to make sure they are very identical?

Most of these examples I am providing say two monitors. But of course with the way Non-metro windows works, you can resize things if you only have one monitor.

Doing a podcast also comes to mind. You can make sure everybody's audio is recording on one screen (or the audio recording software has not crashed), and have your research material (for discussion or whatever the podcast is about) on the other monitor. If you are using Skype and are waiting for a guest to arrive, you can have that window always visible to you can just glance at it every few seconds instead of tabbing to it.

Programming tutorials really benefit from having TWO THINGS open at once for a long period of time. This is what I do, I have the finished sample on one screen, and the screen that is recording on the other monitor.

Website browsing + productivity software really benefits from having them both open and visible at once.

Playing a borderless full screen game (which means tabbing out does not take a couple of seconds) while also talking to your friends through a separate IM client (non steam or xfire if that is still around) on another monitor.

Sometimes....it takes more time to tab between applications than it is to simply move your mouse and set its focus. Do I need to go on with these examples?

[xWhiplash]

No disrepect here; but I can't conceive of how you're using your computer that you're hitting the start screen 3 to 6 times a day. The only time I see the start screen is when I reboot; and with the press of the Windows key away it goes and I never see it again until next reboot.

Sigh.....Did you actually read what I said about it? I boot from OS X to Windows many times a day. OS X has some productivity software that I do not have on Windows that I need to use and vice versa. THEREFORE, I switch between the two many times a day.....how is that hard to understand?

I have some games installed on OS X and some games installed on Windows. So sometimes if I feel like playing a game that is on one of those, I switch to that OS.

[Active.]

putting any buttons (power or not) on the taskbar is a bad bad idea. I'd rather have the full length of taskbar for my own use.

Start button was not a bad idea but system tray icons and the "show desktop" button introduced in Win7 are surely are. "It's simple, just add a button to taskbar" is a bad design - think years of system tray abuse, weird toolbars by everyone including Microsoft.

You know, I actually had a look at the default state of the taskbar/system tray in Windows 8, and realized that, if you put the cogwheel icon there you could even theoretically eliminate the existing system tray icons (or make them hidden), since they are both duplicated in the settings charm.

Before:

After:

If that's considered to be too radical, after all the icons serve to inform you of the network status, signal strength and volume level, so you might want to have them in permanent view (even though Microsoft have decided against that in the Metro environment and have even decided to eliminate the time, so, who knows really) then another option would be to hide the disclosure triangle and only have it appear when you hover over the system tray area. In that case you would end up with the same number of icons in the default state.

Combine the two suggestions, and you could even eliminate all three icons from the task bar. Which you could also achieve by integrating the system tray into the Settings Charm somehow, although Microsoft would probably want to prevent that from happening. ;)

The elimination of these icons would in fact be more consistent with the Metro environment than it currently is, and would, as Dot Matrix might say, "reduce clutter". At that point the task bar in its "natural state" would essentially consist of 3 visible UI elements, search icon, settings icon, the launcher, plus the clock. And since all (including the clock) are relevant both to the Metro environment as well as to the Desktop environment, at least as soon as Metro apps get their spot on the task bar, you could, at that point, allow Mouse/trackpad users in Metro's full screen mode to move their cursor to whatever screen edge they have their task bar positioned at, and have the task bar be temporarily revealed, for increased consistency with the Desktop environment. In fact, if a mouse or trackpad is used as the input device, right-clicking to show the Metro app bar might bring up the task bar at the same time.

[Dutchie64]

I just don't get it.....

People happily use multiple UI's on your tablet, phone and PC. Nobody is complaining about it when you start using it, even when it's radically different from Windows (iOS and Android)

We'll learn and use it without much thought.

MS decides to change the UI in Windows towards a unified start menu/platform and the whole world just plain hates it and would love to see MS burn.....

Just stick some of that open mindness into W8 as you did when you picked up a iPad or Nexus for the first time.

All these 'radical changes' in the Metro UI and shoving Metro icon onto the desktop are kinda pointless, small enhancements are needed.

e.g. move the power options linke shutdown, hybernate etc. under the user dropdown on the start screen. It was the first place I looked after installing W8, as so many others.

e.g. fix the tiles, like custom rows counts for large resolutions, and maybe add the WP8 size options to the startscreen.

e.g. consolidate more Windows options menus (or all) into Metro, -or- make the current ones on the desktop more Metro alike to make them more alike.

e.g. fix the jarring animation from Metro to desktop when you start an app. This is also a big issue for many.

All small stuff and easily fixed imho. Let's hope that Blue project will fix some of the most glaring issues with W8/Start Menu, but overall it's a nice v1.

my 2 cents.....

[Crimson Rain]

I am sorry I do not have my computer on 24/7 like everybody else here. for 18 hours, there is no need for it to be on or even in sleep. I am at work for 10 hours (8 hours and 1 hour travel time each way), and I sleep for 8 hours. 18 hours that the computer is not being used. So I turn it off. Not sleep....not hibernate....turn it off...with an SSD, there is no benefit from having it sleep or hibernate.

Also, what do you want people like me to do that do only use their computer extensively for the remainder of those 6 hours? I have a mac, so I boot between OS X and Windows 8 a lot during the day. Having such an option might not benefit you, but it would benefit me and businesses I am sure. It annoys me to hell having to click Desktop 3-6 times every day to get to the desktop. I am never in the Start Screen except for that first boot.

Use the hardware power button instead of whining.

[Active.]

I just don't get it.....

Now?

(For the record, Windows 8 is my favorite Windows OS yet, but it took Start8 and ModernMix to achieve that).

[Dutchie64]

Not agreeing on all parts, but like I said I agree on W8 needing some polishing.

Let's hope MS reads up on all the comments/critics and change some stuff in Blue.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Reading the comments here I get the feeling DotMatrix works for the sales department for Microsoft Windows division.

But reading these comments, and alot of other comments on the net, the majority of comments want 2 things:

1. Boot to desktop.

2. Tabbed taskbar for multitasking/switching apps.

If you do work for Microsoft Dot, and it sure as hell sounds like you do - make the UI guys add them features to Windows Blue and EVERYONE will be happy.

* p.s. Even though DotMatrix presents himself as a die hard fan of Windows 8 - SOME (far from being most) of his arguments are valid... and could be incorporated into OPs original post.

[BajiRav]

You know, I actually had a look at the default state of the taskbar/system tray in Windows 8, and realized that, if you put the cogwheel icon there you could even theoretically eliminate the existing system tray icons (or make them hidden), since they are both duplicated in the settings charm.

Before:

After:

If that's considered to be too radical, after all the icons serve to inform you of the network status, signal strength and volume level, so you might want to have them in permanent view (even though Microsoft have decided against that in the Metro environment and have even decided to eliminate the time, so, who knows really) then another option would be to hide the disclosure triangle and only have it appear when you hover over the system tray area. In that case you would end up with the same number of icons in the default state.

Combine the two suggestions, and you could even eliminate all three icons from the task bar. Which you could also achieve by integrating the system tray into the Settings Charm somehow, although Microsoft would probably want to prevent that from happening. ;)

The elimination of these icons would in fact be more consistent with the Metro environment than it currently is, and would, as Dot Matrix might say, "reduce clutter". At that point the task bar in its "natural state" would essentially consist of 3 visible UI elements, search icon, settings icon, the launcher, plus the clock. And since all (including the clock) are relevant both to the Metro environment as well as to the Desktop environment, at least as soon as Metro apps get their spot on the task bar, you could, at that point, allow Mouse/trackpad users in Metro's full screen mode to move their cursor to whatever screen edge they have their task bar positioned at, and have the task bar be temporarily revealed, for increased consistency with the Desktop environment. In fact, if a mouse or trackpad is used as the input device, right-clicking to show the Metro app bar might bring up the task bar at the same time.

That looks nice (Y)

[xWhiplash]

Use the hardware power button instead of whining.

How does that automatically click the Desktop tile?

Holy crap people, I have said many times before I like Windows 8, actually prefer it. But I just have THOSE TWO.....TWO issues. Yet I am still being attacked and being called whiney?

Why the heck do we even have ANY sort of product reviews then? If we cannot say our opinions, NO REVIEWS should be allowed to exist.

[Active.]

That looks nice (Y)

Or the user picture might actually work as well, if you consolidated the default Microsoft-provided system tray icons for the battery status, wifi strength etc. into a single click target. It would then be implied that clicking on them gets you to the systemwide settings (charm). And Microsoft could do the same to the user tile on the Start Screen (sort of how others have already proposed it in this thread), eliminating the need for the Settings/power icon there . Although I've never used it, it appears that that is kind of what Chrome OS is doing.

Anyway, just a thought...

[Dot Matrix]

Or the user picture might actually work as well, if you consolidated the default Microsoft-provided system tray icons for the battery status, wifi strength etc. into a single click target. It would then be implied that clicking on them gets you to the systemwide settings (charm). And Microsoft could do the same to the user tile on the Start Screen (sort of how others have already proposed it in this thread), eliminating the need for the Settings/power icon there . Although I've never used it, it appears that that is kind of what Chrome OS is doing.

Anyway, just a thought...

I know Microsoft toyed around with the user tile in the tray in the early Windows 8 alphas. You may see the return of that someday in some form.

Reading the comments here I get the feeling DotMatrix works for the sales department for Microsoft Windows division.

But reading these comments, and alot of other comments on the net, the majority of comments want 2 things:

1. Boot to desktop.

2. Tabbed taskbar for multitasking/switching apps.

If you do work for Microsoft Dot, and it sure as hell sounds like you do - make the UI guys add them features to Windows Blue and EVERYONE will be happy.

* p.s. Even though DotMatrix presents himself as a die hard fan of Windows 8 - SOME (far from being most) of his arguments are valid... and could be incorporated into OPs original post.

I don't. But depending on how far Microsoft further integrates the Metro UI to what's left of the old Win32 UX, you may never get that option.