Common sense fixes to Windows 8

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Grand Master

Dashel

Posted
Posted

It's nice to have my screen space available to my content and work, and not cluttered with every single control known to man.

That truly is hilarious. On one hand, you clearly are still rocking a small screen so its unsurprising you try to maximize your limitations. On the other, I'm quite skeptical that any 'work' you are doing is complex enough that you need the screen space for content and not controls.

A user's decision for or against using a Metro app doesn't necessarily correlate with the wish for a distraction-less single-tasking environment...

But what about letting users put an app in a "no distraction" mode (and back again), or actually letting users customize the amount of "clutter" that they want to have removed from the screen. No? ok. :(

QFT. I'm still optimistic though. If MS shows uncharacteristic fortitude on this, it is possible that we are mistaking its smell for the fact that it isn't potty trained yet.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

You mean in my screenshot? Yeah, that's ModernMix doing its job, a commercial 3rd party hack (that admittedly works rather well all things considered). Metro apps aren't even listed on the task bar by default. If you include advantages ModernMix brings with it in your argument, then you can hardly argue that Microsoft have made prudent out-of-the-box decisions? Guess what though, I agree with you on the following:

"These things don't need to be visible on screen every second."

But that's not the same as saying, these things shouldn't be visible at all whenever you're in a Metro app. A user's decision for or against using a Metro app doesn't necessarily correlate with the wish for a distraction-less single-tasking environment. Unless Microsoft specifically wants to exclude everyone else from using Metro apps, in which case, fine, I guess it's not for people like me then, I already have an iPad, no need for such an environment on the Desktop.

But what about letting users put an app in a "no distraction" mode (and back again), or actually letting users customize the amount of "clutter" that they want to have removed from the screen. No? ok. :(

Top left corner. Sorry. It's hidden, but Metro still has a tasbar, and the desktop can be found on it.

Grand Master

Active.

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Top left corner. Sorry. It's hidden, but Metro still has a tasbar, and the desktop can be found on it.

Oh, I see. Well, then I guess we're now down to semantics as to what makes a task bar. I see the switcher on the left side as a listing of your workspaces, with Metro apps each listed under separate workspaces, and all Desktop apps living in one single workspace. (and by the way?why not more than one?) Now arguably for most people, some if not most of their work will be done in the single "Desktop" workspace whose apps are not individually listed on Metro's "task bar" at all. The only way to utilize the app switcher on the left in the same way that you would use the task bar is by abstaining altogether from Desktop apps.

Grand Master

Dashel

Posted
Posted

Has anyone else seen Paul Thurrott's Fixing Windows 8? He currently has six articles regarding the subject.

I discovered it yesterday and I believe that he has some nice ideas.

Yep, some good ideas there. More importantly he addresses the culture issue that Davo apparently just wants to ignore.

Bring back NT!

Grand Master

Dashel

Posted
Posted

Um, the transition of WP8 was to the NT kernel from CE smart guy.

Read the Thurrott article, its about culture/brand, not tech, which is MS's greater issue and why their decisions have the potential to make Win8 such a make or break risk for them long term. It doesn't threaten the consumer darlings in iOS/Android but it does make business nervous because MS doesn't even have a strategy yet. The identity crisis of Win8 is MS saying we don't know what the future holds.

"The people who can?t stand Windows 8 are the same that used to gravitate to NT, power users, IT pros, and developers, and they would have happy-ecstatic, really?to give up the Fisher Price silliness of Metro for a desktop-only version of Windows 8 that is actually optimized for the hardware they really use...Something that?s necessary to remind customers that Microsoft hasn?t forgotten about the doers in its mad rush to satisfy the fat content consumers who only care about playing Wordament and checking Facebook with their fingers. This silliness needs to stop. And NT is the answer."

http://winsupersite....e-bring-back-nt

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Um, the transition of WP8 was to the NT kernel from CE smart guy.

Read the Thurrott article, its about culture/brand, not tech, which is MS's greater issue and why their decisions have the potential to make Win8 such a make or break risk for them long term. It doesn't threaten the consumer darlings in iOS/Android but it does make business nervous because MS doesn't even have a strategy yet. The identity crisis of Win8 is MS saying we don't know what the future holds.

"The people who can?t stand Windows 8 are the same that used to gravitate to NT, power users, IT pros, and developers, and they would have happy-ecstatic, really?to give up the Fisher Price silliness of Metro for a desktop-only version of Windows 8 that is actually optimized for the hardware they really use...Something that?s necessary to remind customers that Microsoft hasn?t forgotten about the doers in its mad rush to satisfy the fat content consumers who only care about playing Wordament and checking Facebook with their fingers. This silliness needs to stop. And NT is the answer."

http://winsupersite....e-bring-back-nt

Strange, contrary to Thurrott's claims, I'm quite productive with Metro apps. It seems he's doing what half the people here did. Wrote it off before trying it or letting it time to evolve and mature. Eitherway, if NT didn't go away, (which you're right, for some reason I pictured the Windows NT OS), then he should have nothing to worry about. If anything's become clear recently, it's Microsoft wants to expand into other markets and new input technologies.

Grand Master

Dashel

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No Dot, you are the full screen loving, taskbar hiding, 'fat content consumer'. The people you harass, bait, and call all kinds of names are the ones that gravitated to NT back in the day. Your only response to them has been one of pure negativity, so why would they claim you as one of their tribe? You know, like this gem you posted:

"Now, unless you're some hotshot, "power user" still stuck in the past, pretending that a zillion and one things cluttered all over the screen, is "cool", and somehow makes you think you're better than everyone else" -Dot

Again, its about culture, not tech. Your culture is the cult of Mac.

  • Jim K, Ian W and Jose_49
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xWhiplash

Posted
Posted

Yes because the start menu in windows 7 was such a huge and cluttered up mess!! /s

HAHAH :p

Dot, what about those that like what you refer to as 'clutter'? What about us users that like a lot of windows open at once? 2 apps at once at a fixed 70% 30% split does not count. I would like more than two things at once open, at whatever size I want.

Mentor

Davo

Posted
Posted

The culture shift that's happening is that consumers are moving away from stationary devices and that professionals need to be mobile. The fact that the iPad and iPhone even have a purpose in corporate shows that, considering how dumbed down they are.

Does know one remember the incredibly awful experience of WinMo? That was Microsoft's attempt at making Windows into a corporate on-the-go solution. Did you ever try using the Start Menu on a resistive touchscreen? That abomination is why the reception for WP7 and WP8 has been lukewarm at best.

They fixed that by introducing an operating system that has the potential to move across devices seamlessly. No one needs a full blown OS or machine to check spreadsheets or browse the web when space is already at a premium in a plane or on a train. And that's just for people who *need* to do that because they're short on time, otherwise you just have someone farting around on Facebook who doesn't even need a tablet to do that.

I am all for a computing experience that looks the same on my desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone because that means I can bring my main experience (desktop) with me without pulling a muscle or needing a dozen peripherals. I'm willing to deal with the shortcomings of Modern UI in the interim until Microsoft can reorganize and flesh out their vision, because right now all I need to do is click the Desktop icon and I'm back on the familiar desktop and *everything* works like normal, but better.

But I do understand people who want to stick with 7. I stuck with XP until I jumped to 8. It's all about habit, stubbornness, and being comfortable. I'm just personally never going back to driver scavenger hunts, card catalog Start menus, or obnoxiously long startups/restarts on old hardware.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

No Dot, you are the full screen loving, taskbar hiding, 'fat content consumer'. The people you harass, bait, and call all kinds of names are the ones that gravitated to NT back in the day. Your only response to them has been one of pure negativity, so why would they claim you as one of their tribe? You know, like this gem you posted:

Why should my response be positive? Power users by nature are a whiney, negative, and hostile bunch. Do you see the amount of crap posted towards developers when a feature is removed or further developed upon? Power users complained at the introduction of the GUI. Power users complained at the introduction of the Start Menu, and no surprise here, they're complaining at its evolution. Ordinary users don't need power users hampering development because they fear changing their habits. Users need workable machines, and if that market wants touch and mobile devices, then so what? Computing wants to move in new directions, why not just go with the flow and let it?

So, the Start Screen covers the entire screen, at least I can see the frakkin thing now, AND my icons! I was tired of being cramped into a tiny archaic flyout, with barely visible icons. Dull, static icons none the less. Keyword there being 'dull'. 'Bland' is also another good word to use. The Start Screen offers a new and dynamic UX that the Start Menu could never have offered. The Start Menu was an evolutionary dead end. It reached it's max, and it was time to change.

card catalog Start menus

LOL. Nice.

Veteran

xWhiplash

Posted
Posted

The culture shift that's happening is that consumers are moving away from stationary devices and that professionals need to be mobile. The fact that the iPad and iPhone even have a purpose in corporate shows that, considering how dumbed down they are.

Does know one remember the incredibly awful experience of WinMo? That was Microsoft's attempt at making Windows into a corporate on-the-go solution. Did you ever try using the Start Menu on a resistive touchscreen? That abomination is why the reception for WP7 and WP8 has been lukewarm at best.

They fixed that by introducing an operating system that has the potential to move across devices seamlessly. No one needs a full blown OS or machine to check spreadsheets or browse the web when space is already at a premium in a plane or on a train. And that's just for people who *need* to do that because they're short on time, otherwise you just have someone farting around on Facebook who doesn't even need a tablet to do that.

I am all for a computing experience that looks the same on my desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone because that means I can bring my main experience (desktop) with me without pulling a muscle or needing a dozen peripherals. I'm willing to deal with the shortcomings of Modern UI in the interim until Microsoft can reorganize and flesh out their vision, because right now all I need to do is click the Desktop icon and I'm back on the familiar desktop and *everything* works like normal, but better.

But I do understand people who want to stick with 7. I stuck with XP until I jumped to 8. It's all about habit, stubbornness, and being comfortable. I'm just personally never going back to driver scavenger hunts, card catalog Start menus, or obnoxiously long startups/restarts on old hardware.

Not all professionals......I cannot program, test with various OSs, browsers (if it is a website). I cannot use the full Adobe Photoshop....I cannot use Adobe After Effects.....I cannot render a full 1080p video in 4 hours like I can with my desktop

Collaborator

contextfree

Posted
Posted

By the way, and just fyi in case someone wasn't aware of this, both WIN+1-9 as well as WIN+ALT+1-9 work from the Start Screen despite the fact that the task bar isn't visible at the time. So, if you have the File Explorer as the first item on the task bar, you could, right from the Start Screen, press WIN+ALT+1 then 'D', then Enter, to get to your pinned documents folder (for example). :)

EDIT: Ugh...actually....it seems that this doesn't work unless you've already been to the Desktop at least once after booting. :pinch:

Yep, that's bitten me too ... getting rid of that nasty exception would be a nice "common sense fix" I could get behind. :)

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Not all professionals......I cannot program, test with various OSs, browsers (if it is a website). I cannot use the full Adobe Photoshop....I cannot use Adobe After Effects.....I cannot render a full 1080p video in 4 hours like I can with my desktop

So, that's what? 2% of the market? BTW, I worked through multiple programming courses on my mid range laptop alone. Just sayin...

Mentor

Davo

Posted
Posted

Not all professionals......I cannot program, test with various OSs, browsers (if it is a website). I cannot use the full Adobe Photoshop....I cannot use Adobe After Effects.....I cannot render a full 1080p video in 4 hours like I can with my desktop

Not all but then there's still the desktop and Windows 8 doesn't hamper that in any way.

Grand Master

Ian W

Posted
Posted

Thurrott has always been annoying at best...

So...what does that have to do with his ideas? Several of them are sensible.

For example, while he's not the only one who's thought of it, an option to boot to the desktop would be a nice addition.

While on the subject of fixing Windows 8, I wish that one could drag and drop items onto the Start screen. This was possible with the Start menu.

Mentor

Davo

Posted
Posted

His ideas are regressive. He keeps harping on NT, calling it Metro instead of Modern UI, telling people they should install Start8, etc.

For consumers and even most business professionals, none of this is necessary. It's all based on user habit.

"Boot to desktop" would only be useful for the present because Modern UI has poor integration with legacy, and would only actually work well in a server environment where there isn't normal use anyway.

Grand Master

Active.

Posted
  • Author
Posted
calling it Metro instead of Modern UI

Why would you call it "Modern UI"? AFAIK Microsoft calls it the "WIndows 8" interface (which has led David Pogue to simply call it "TileWorld" to avoid confusion) but "Metro" had been the codename for the longest time and (tech) people will know what you're talking about. It makes zero sense to call it "modern" unless you work for Microsoft and also casually slip marketing vocabulary like "fast and fluid" into conversation.

telling people they should install Start8, etc.

That's just common sense... :shifty:

there are ways to restore the Start menu [...] And you should absolutely do that; it makes Windows 8 infinitely more efficient.

[Source]

For consumers and even most business professionals, none of this is necessary. It's all based on user habit.

Then how do you explain this (from the same source):

For the longest time, [the Start Screen] didn?t bother me. [...] But the more I learned to do things in Windows 8, the more I wrote tutorials for doing them, the more I realized the enormous drawback of this setup

And lastly:

"Boot to desktop" would only be useful for the present because Modern UI has poor integration with legacy, and would only actually work well in a server environment where there isn't normal use anyway.

Yes, the Metro interface has poor integration with the Desktop, that's true. So what it comes down to is that It would indeed be useful, there's demand for it, and it would work perfectly fine (as third party hacks demonstrate). There's zero reasons against it except marketing/strategic concerns at Microsoft.

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