Just how many people hate Windows 8?

[123456789A]

370,000 people hate Windows 8.

46 million like it.

 

Source: Statistics

[moeburn]

We just want our Windows 7 features back, without having to go back to it's slower speed.  That's all.  Then we'll shut our mouths and leave you all alone.

[Auditor]

370,000 people hate Windows 8.

46 million like it.

 

Source: Statistics

Is that what they hypothetically teach in your stats class.

[moeburn]

370,000 people like Windows 8.

46 million hate it.

 

Source: Better Statistics

[+Warwagon MVC]

370,000 people hate Windows 8.

46 million like it.

 

Source: Statistics

 

I think it's the other way around.

[PGHammer]

We just want our Windows 7 features back, without having to go back to it's slower speed.  That's all.  Then we'll shut our mouths and leave you all alone.

moeburn, exactly what OTHER than the Start menu and Aero did you lose from Windows 7?

 

That is as plain a question as can be asked.  It is, in fact, a question I asked ALL the critics as far back as the Consumer Preview of Windows 8.  Not one of you has, however, answered it yet!

 

Aero itself is an aesthetics issue.  QuickLaunch and Taskbar pinning remain.  (Both are in Windows 8.1 as well - neither is going anywhere.)  Windows Virtual PC has been replaced with Hyper-V (which it, to put it bluntly, MUCH better in terms of usability than even VPC was in the pre-Microsoft days).  Other than the two items I noted, what's gone?

[f0rk_b0mb]

moeburn, exactly what OTHER than the Start menu and Aero did you lose from Windows 7?

 

That is as plain a question as can be asked.  It is, in fact, a question I asked ALL the critics as far back as the Consumer Preview of Windows 8.  Not one of you has, however, answered it yet!

 

Aero itself is an aesthetics issue.  QuickLaunch and Taskbar pinning remain.  (Both are in Windows 8.1 as well - neither is going anywhere.)  Windows Virtual PC has been replaced with Hyper-V (which it, to put it bluntly, MUCH better in terms of usability than even VPC was in the pre-Microsoft days).  Other than the two items I noted, what's gone?

 

 

You want a list of stuff MSFT removed from 8 that was in 7? Here you go: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/156585-features-and-options-removed-in-windows-8/

[moeburn]

moeburn, exactly what OTHER than the Start menu and Aero did you lose from Windows 7?

 

That is as plain a question as can be asked.  It is, in fact, a question I asked ALL the critics as far back as the Consumer Preview of Windows 8.  Not one of you has, however, answered it yet!

 

Aero itself is an aesthetics issue.  QuickLaunch and Taskbar pinning remain.  (Both are in Windows 8.1 as well - neither is going anywhere.)  Windows Virtual PC has been replaced with Hyper-V (which it, to put it bluntly, MUCH better in terms of usability than even VPC was in the pre-Microsoft days).  Other than the two items I noted, what's gone?

 

This is what's gone:

 

? Start Menu.

? Built-in (Microsoft provided) DVD playback in Windows Media Player will not be available on the Windows 8 platform, even with addition of the Media Center Pack.

? Device Manager no longer shows Non-Plug and Play Drivers or hidden devices. The "Devmgr_Show_NonPresent_Devices=1' environment variable has no effect: Image

? Applications can no longer programmatically configure, change or query file associations or set themselves during installation as the default for a file type or protocol!

? Many commands are missing on the Ribbon which were there on Explorer command bar like Compatibility Files, View Remote Printers etc and others for special folders and namespace extensions. They just forgot to add these to these commands!

? The "Compatibility" tab for an application's properties no longer includes 'Windows 2000' and 'Windows NT 4.0' modes. You will be forced to use Application Compatibility Toolkit to set these OS modes.

? The menu bar and command bar (toolbar) in Windows Explorer have been removed and replaced with the Ribbon interface. Keyboard usability IMHO of the Ribbon is poor because in a menu, the first letter of any menu command or Alt+keyboard combination key is easier to read sequentially as it is placed in a row either horizontally or vertically. Mouse usability of the Ribbon and discoverability of commands is also poor, because unlike in a menu, where you can switch from one menu to another without clicking again, the Ribbon tabs do not activate unless you click again. The File menu also showed context menu commands but the File button on the Ribbon does not show these. Commands in the menu can be static (always available) irrespective of the location you are at in Explorer or they can be dynamic like the File menu. In contrast, commands on the Ribbon are all contextual meaning you have to navigate to a certain location to use that Ribbon command. The Ribbon is not customizable, only the Quick Access Toolbar is customizable but its usability is poor because it uses tiny 16 x 16 icons! (So much for a touch-friendly OS).

? The ability to boot directly to the desktop and not load the Metro components in memory is not there. Items in various startup locations (Registry, startup folder etc) are all loaded with a delay of few seconds with no way to load them instantly.

? The Lock screen is the place where you can now display custom background instead of the Logon screen, but unlike the Logon screen, there seems to be no way to programmatically change or cycle through a group of images for the Lock screen background. It must be set manually by the user from PC settings on the Start screen.

? Running Internet Explorer purely in 64-bit mode is not possible unless Enhanced Protected Mode is enabled which disables all addons not compatible with EPM. Otherwise, 64-bit IE10 opens 32-bit tabs.

? Search option to use natural language search has been removed.

? File operations like Rename, Delete can no longer be undone for UAC-protected locations

? Security Essentials settings for configuring default actions or real-time protection have been removed. (Security Essentials is now built-in as Windows Defender)

? In a dual boot scenario, the ability to directly boot into another OS besides Windows 8 is slowed down because the new Windows 8 boot shell/loader reboots to load the other operating system.

? Windows Update settings for showing notifications and allowing all users to install updates have been removed. Windows Update no longer notifies with a balloon notification that there are new updates available.

? Sound events for 'Exit Windows', 'Windows Logon' and 'Windows Logoff' are removed

? People Near Me P2P API is removed

? WinHelp has been completely discontinued. No download will be available.

? MSConfig's Startup tab has been killed and replaced by the Task Manager's Startup tab that doesn't have the 'Location' column which was useful for example to know if the process started from HKCU or HKLM.

? Previous Versions for Shadow Copies is removed. The half-baked replacement is the File History feature which is only for certain file types (documents, music, videos and pictures) in Libraries, desktop and browser favorites. Previous Versions worked for any generic file type in any folder. File History does not even support EFS-encrypted files! File History is supposed to replace both "Previous Versions for Shadow Copies" as well as "Windows Backup and Restore" and it doesn't do 100% of either of the features it replaces!

? Advanced Appearance settings which let you adjust colors, sizes and fonts are removed

? Explorer status bar removes the ability to show important details. It is now a private undocumented control (DirectUI) so it also doesn't allow Explorer addons like Classic Shell to show information like free disk space, total size of items without selection, computer zone, infotip information as it could on a standard status bar control.

? Explorer: Ability to enable both Details pane and Preview pane simultaneously in Explorer for display of file metadata as well as preview, or, Details pane to be always shown and only the Preview pane toggled is gone

? Flip 3D is gone

? Chkdsk when run at startup does not display any information about file system repairs besides % complete. This screen with scanning and correction details is gone when Chkdsk runs at startup and replaced by just a % complete.

? Pen, Ink and Touch Input Desktop features, including the The Tablet Input Panel (TIP) are no longer included. Some buttons ('num', 'sym' and 'web) are removed from the Handwriting input panel and UI changes to it require more clicks for example to switch from handwriting to keyboard, or access the editing commands (join, split, delete). It is now touch-friendly but no longer stylus-friendly. Desktop tablet features are replaced by a "simplified" touch keyboard.

? Network Map feature and some network profile management UI (setting a network as Private, Public, customizing the network name and icon etc) from Network and Sharing Center is missing

? Memory addresses and other technical information has been removed from the Windows 8 bug check screen (BSOD)

? The new Task Manager is missing many features of the old one: http://social.techne...c8-c39833aff90e

? View Available Networks (VAN) UI has been crippled with access to the most important dialog: the Network's Status window removed. The VAN UI now covers the notification area icons unnecessarily and the Metro look is out of place on the Aero desktop.

? The AutoPlay dialog removes the option to always open a particular program based on the file type

? The Open With dialog breaks the NoInternetOpenWith and NoFileAssociate Group Policies and browsing for a program with the redesigned Open With dialog requires three clicks instead of just one.

? The Windows Error Reporting dialog for reporting/debugging crashes does not save the state of "View details"

? Windows CardSpace is not installed even after installing .NET 3.0/3.5

? The keyboard shortcut for Windows Mobility Center has been removed. Previously, Win+X brought it up, now it brings up the power user context menu.

? Some remoting apps that use mirror drivers or some features of mirror drivers for remoting scenarios, accessibility, or desktop duplication may no longer be supported due to the changes required to be made to Desktop Window Manager.

? Some Audio Compression Manager (ACM) components are broken resulting in Sound Recorder being unable to do format conversion.

? Subsystem for UNIX-based applications is completely removed

[PGHammer]

You want a list of stuff MSFT removed from 8 that was in 7? Here you go: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/156585-features-and-options-removed-in-windows-8/

And other than DVD playback, how much does the removal of any of it, let alone all of it, matter to everyday users?  (In fact, the question can even be asked of DVD playback, since even Windows 7 required third-party software, such as Cyberlink PowerDVD or even VLC, to playback DVDs properly.)  Features three and four to get their chop called are gone due to Device Manager *itself* being better at device detection than was the case previously, along with improvements to the underpinnings on which Computer Management (and Device Manager) relies on.  (Here's an example - my desktop motherboard is the ASUS P5G41-M LX2/GB; in addition to the various SATA and USB ports, it also has a single two-channel ATAPI (read - IDE) port.  However, because I have that port switched *off* in the motherboard's BIOS (due to non-use), why would (or should) Computer Management (or Device Manager) show it?  If I turn that port back in in the BIOS, both Computer Management, and Device Manager, will show it, and anything connected to it.  Otherwise, what is the point?)

Lack of Windows 200/NT4 compatibility features - that is throughout the entire common codebase;  those same features had their chop called in Server 2012.  Possibly important to niche users - everyday users could care less.

The menubar is merely hidden - not gone; hitting the Alt key unhides the menu (identical to what has been the case with Internet Explorer since version 8).

The vast majority (if not the entire list) of features your link refers to are far from important to most users - in fact, most aren't even important to outlier users.

[Dot Matrix]

We just want our Windows 7 features back, without having to go back to it's slower speed.  That's all.  Then we'll shut our mouths and leave you all alone.

 

Windows 8 has all the features of Windows 7, then some. If you can't get used to a freakin Start Screen, well then, that's your issue, not Microsoft's. Perhaps you could ask them how removing the Program Manager went, and see how much they care.

 

 

This is what's gone:

 

? Start Menu.

? Built-in (Microsoft provided) DVD playback in Windows Media Player will not be available on the Windows 8 platform, even with addition of the Media Center Pack.

? Device Manager no longer shows Non-Plug and Play Drivers or hidden devices. The "Devmgr_Show_NonPresent_Devices=1' environment variable has no effect: Image

? Applications can no longer programmatically configure, change or query file associations or set themselves during installation as the default for a file type or protocol!

? Many commands are missing on the Ribbon which were there on Explorer command bar like Compatibility Files, View Remote Printers etc and others for special folders and namespace extensions. They just forgot to add these to these commands!

? The "Compatibility" tab for an application's properties no longer includes 'Windows 2000' and 'Windows NT 4.0' modes. You will be forced to use Application Compatibility Toolkit to set these OS modes.

? The menu bar and command bar (toolbar) in Windows Explorer have been removed and replaced with the Ribbon interface. Keyboard usability IMHO of the Ribbon is poor because in a menu, the first letter of any menu command or Alt+keyboard combination key is easier to read sequentially as it is placed in a row either horizontally or vertically. Mouse usability of the Ribbon and discoverability of commands is also poor, because unlike in a menu, where you can switch from one menu to another without clicking again, the Ribbon tabs do not activate unless you click again. The File menu also showed context menu commands but the File button on the Ribbon does not show these. Commands in the menu can be static (always available) irrespective of the location you are at in Explorer or they can be dynamic like the File menu. In contrast, commands on the Ribbon are all contextual meaning you have to navigate to a certain location to use that Ribbon command. The Ribbon is not customizable, only the Quick Access Toolbar is customizable but its usability is poor because it uses tiny 16 x 16 icons! (So much for a touch-friendly OS).

? The ability to boot directly to the desktop and not load the Metro components in memory is not there. Items in various startup locations (Registry, startup folder etc) are all loaded with a delay of few seconds with no way to load them instantly.

? The Lock screen is the place where you can now display custom background instead of the Logon screen, but unlike the Logon screen, there seems to be no way to programmatically change or cycle through a group of images for the Lock screen background. It must be set manually by the user from PC settings on the Start screen.

? Running Internet Explorer purely in 64-bit mode is not possible unless Enhanced Protected Mode is enabled which disables all addons not compatible with EPM. Otherwise, 64-bit IE10 opens 32-bit tabs.

? Search option to use natural language search has been removed.

? File operations like Rename, Delete can no longer be undone for UAC-protected locations

? Security Essentials settings for configuring default actions or real-time protection have been removed. (Security Essentials is now built-in as Windows Defender)

? In a dual boot scenario, the ability to directly boot into another OS besides Windows 8 is slowed down because the new Windows 8 boot shell/loader reboots to load the other operating system.

? Windows Update settings for showing notifications and allowing all users to install updates have been removed. Windows Update no longer notifies with a balloon notification that there are new updates available.

? Sound events for 'Exit Windows', 'Windows Logon' and 'Windows Logoff' are removed

? People Near Me P2P API is removed

? WinHelp has been completely discontinued. No download will be available.

? MSConfig's Startup tab has been killed and replaced by the Task Manager's Startup tab that doesn't have the 'Location' column which was useful for example to know if the process started from HKCU or HKLM.

? Previous Versions for Shadow Copies is removed. The half-baked replacement is the File History feature which is only for certain file types (documents, music, videos and pictures) in Libraries, desktop and browser favorites. Previous Versions worked for any generic file type in any folder. File History does not even support EFS-encrypted files! File History is supposed to replace both "Previous Versions for Shadow Copies" as well as "Windows Backup and Restore" and it doesn't do 100% of either of the features it replaces!

? Advanced Appearance settings which let you adjust colors, sizes and fonts are removed

? Explorer status bar removes the ability to show important details. It is now a private undocumented control (DirectUI) so it also doesn't allow Explorer addons like Classic Shell to show information like free disk space, total size of items without selection, computer zone, infotip information as it could on a standard status bar control.

? Explorer: Ability to enable both Details pane and Preview pane simultaneously in Explorer for display of file metadata as well as preview, or, Details pane to be always shown and only the Preview pane toggled is gone

? Flip 3D is gone

? Chkdsk when run at startup does not display any information about file system repairs besides % complete. This screen with scanning and correction details is gone when Chkdsk runs at startup and replaced by just a % complete.

? Pen, Ink and Touch Input Desktop features, including the The Tablet Input Panel (TIP) are no longer included. Some buttons ('num', 'sym' and 'web) are removed from the Handwriting input panel and UI changes to it require more clicks for example to switch from handwriting to keyboard, or access the editing commands (join, split, delete). It is now touch-friendly but no longer stylus-friendly. Desktop tablet features are replaced by a "simplified" touch keyboard.

? Network Map feature and some network profile management UI (setting a network as Private, Public, customizing the network name and icon etc) from Network and Sharing Center is missing

? Memory addresses and other technical information has been removed from the Windows 8 bug check screen (BSOD)

? The new Task Manager is missing many features of the old one: http://social.techne...c8-c39833aff90e

? View Available Networks (VAN) UI has been crippled with access to the most important dialog: the Network's Status window removed. The VAN UI now covers the notification area icons unnecessarily and the Metro look is out of place on the Aero desktop.

? The AutoPlay dialog removes the option to always open a particular program based on the file type

? The Open With dialog breaks the NoInternetOpenWith and NoFileAssociate Group Policies and browsing for a program with the redesigned Open With dialog requires three clicks instead of just one.

? The Windows Error Reporting dialog for reporting/debugging crashes does not save the state of "View details"

? Windows CardSpace is not installed even after installing .NET 3.0/3.5

? The keyboard shortcut for Windows Mobility Center has been removed. Previously, Win+X brought it up, now it brings up the power user context menu.

? Some remoting apps that use mirror drivers or some features of mirror drivers for remoting scenarios, accessibility, or desktop duplication may no longer be supported due to the changes required to be made to Desktop Window Manager.

? Some Audio Compression Manager (ACM) components are broken resulting in Sound Recorder being unable to do format conversion.

? Subsystem for UNIX-based applications is completely removed

 

And how much are you missing all this stuff? Probably slim to none.

 

 

Microsoft is ready to move on with new things. They're not going to shoot themselves in the foot, or weigh themselves down with baggage just for a crying few.

[moeburn]

Windows 8 has all the features of Windows 7, then some. If you can't get used to a freakin Start Screen, well then, that's your issue, not Microsoft's. Perhaps you could ask them how removing the Program Manager went, and see how much they care.

 

I think you missed my above post.

 

And yes, some of those missing features don't really affect me, but most of them do:

• It's a pain in the ass to have to set file associations manually, requiring even more clicks than in Windows 7, why can't they let programs do it on install anymore?  
• I liked having a sound notification for when Windows started, that way I could go do something else while my PC boots up (non-SSD user here, still takes a few minutes) and it'd beep when it was ready for me.  Even my microwave does that.  
• The new task manager can't be set to run on startup, it can't remember your last tab view, not to mention everything else broken about it, that all affects me.  
• When I ran Windows 8 on a bad harddrive that required a chkdsk on boot, I was pretty ###### to find no useable progress information other than "% complete".  I had to go lookup the default log file location in google, then find and read that log on my harddrive, just to know if the chkdsk even found anything.
• Same with the BSOD.  Let's face it, it's going to happen, and a memory address and error code help you look up the information on google to figure out the problem.  But microsoft decided less information is better, and now you can get a dozen different errors lumped under one vague error description in the new BSOD.
• I can no longer use autoplay to automatically run a program when I plug in a device.  For example, I liked to have Sony PMB run every time I plugged in my digital camera.  Now I have to do that manually.
• Again with the lack of information, when a program force closes in the windows environment, you are presented with even less error information in the "details" view.  Now you have to manually try to find the error in the Event Viewer.
• The Windows Mobility Center is now gone.  I liked to use it to adjust my volume, brightness, wireless settings, and more all at once on my laptop, but no more!
• Windows Update no longer tells me when I need to update unless I reboot my pc and notice it on the start screen.  And I don't reboot my PC very often.

 

Aside from the BSOD, only because it hasn't happened yet, these are just some of the missing features in Windows 8 that have already directly affected me.  I'm asking for them back in the hopes that maybe Microsoft will listen and include them.  If you find it annoying and whiny, then stop reading these threads!  We're trying to get a patch so that we can have our features back!  If we get a patch and you don't want those features back, don't install the patch!

 

Microsoft is ready to move on with new things. They're not going to shoot themselves in the foot, or weigh themselves down with baggage just for a crying few.

 

You make it sound like they're breaking up with me!  See, I think they already have shot themselves in the foot. Because whether the few or the majority like it, all that matters is the press they get, and right now it's pretty bad for both Windows and Xbox.  So whether or not we're the few, we're the ones that are going to be listened to.

[Dot Matrix]

I think you missed my above post.

 

And yes, some of those missing features don't really affect me, but most of them do:

• It's a pain in the ass to have to set file associations manually, requiring even more clicks than in Windows 7, why can't they let programs do it on install anymore?
• I liked having a sound notification for when Windows started, that way I could go do something else while my PC boots up (non-SSD user here, still takes a few minutes) and it'd beep when it was ready for me.  Even my microwave does that.  
• The new task manager can't be set to run on startup, it can't remember your last tab view, not to mention everything else broken about it, that all affects me.  
• When I ran Windows 8 on a bad harddrive that required a chkdsk on boot, I was pretty ****ed to find no useable progress information other than "% complete".  I had to go lookup the default log file location in google, then find and read that log on my harddrive, just to know if the chkdsk even found anything.
• Same with the BSOD.  Let's face it, it's going to happen, and a memory address and error code help you look up the information on google to figure out the problem.  But microsoft decided less information is better, and now you can get a dozen different errors lumped under one vague error description in the new BSOD.
• I can no longer use autoplay to automatically run a program when I plug in a device.  For example, I liked to have Sony PMB run every time I plugged in my digital camera.  Now I have to do that manually.
• Again with the lack of information, when a program force closes in the windows environment, you are presented with even less error information in the "details" view.  Now you have to manually try to find the error in the Event Viewer.
• The Windows Mobility Center is now gone.  I liked to use it to adjust my volume, brightness, wireless settings, and more all at once on my laptop, but no more!
• Windows Update no longer tells me when I need to update unless I reboot my pc and notice it on the start screen.  And I don't reboot my PC very often.

 

Aside from the BSOD, only because it hasn't happened yet, these are just some of the missing features in Windows 8 that have already directly affected me.  I'm asking for them back in the hopes that maybe Microsoft will listen and include them.  If you find it annoying and whiny, then stop reading these threads!  We're trying to get a patch so that we can have our features back!  If we get a patch and you don't want those features back, don't install the patch!

 

You make it sound like they're breaking up with me!  See, I think they already have shot themselves in the foot. Because whether the few or the majority like it, all that matters is the press they get, and right now it's pretty bad for both Windows and Xbox.  So whether or not we're the few, we're the ones that are going to be listened to.

 

 

*File associations can still be set in the same manner. Program Defaults is still in Windows 8.

*Windows 8 still includes an option to play a startup sound. Search "Sounds", and you will find it.

*Why do you need task manager on startup? If you really want to torture yourself, just put a shortcut to it in the Startup folder (Which is still there).

*Error descriptions are still the same. Search the error code, and you'll be fine.

*The Mobility Settings are now in the Settings Charm. Options are at the bottom.

*Windows Update is designed to stay out of the user's way. I don't care that my system is updating, I just want it updated. I have better things to do than fret over every little update that comes down the pipe.

 

Not sure what bad press Windows is getting anymore since Windows8.1 is in the works, but eventually things change, and you have to move on. Your workflow will eventually be disrupted whether you want it to or not. And judging from your "criticisms", you're the exemption, rather than the rule. Microsoft still wants to move onto new things. The vocal minority isn't going to stop them.

[cropcircles]

+1

   +1 

 

---  But NO, The Windows 8 car dealers keep telling you that you'll love the W8 car you just test drove around and you should continue to test drive it some more because you just don't understand how it works and you should buy it anyway, even though you just didn't feel comfortable in it and you didn't think it would meet your needs.  Geeeeerrrr  !   Make them stop.  

[PGHammer]

   +1 

 

---  But NO, The Windows 8 car dealers keep telling you that you'll love the W8 car you just test drove around and you should continue to test drive it some more because you just don't understand how it works and you should buy it anyway, even though you just didn't feel comfortable in it and you didn't think it would meet your needs.  Geeeeerrrr  !   Make them stop.  

No, cropcircles - neither I (or even Dot Matrix) are saying any such thing.  However, the poster we both responded to seems to think he is the exception that proves the rule, as opposed to being an even further outlier than those he is claiming to be advocating for.  That is the thing about outlier users - more often than not, they have no idea that they ARE outlier users.

[moeburn]

No, cropcircles - neither I (or even Dot Matrix) are saying any such thing.  However, the poster we both responded to seems to think he is the exception that proves the rule, as opposed to being an even further outlier than those he is claiming to be advocating for.  That is the thing about outlier users - more often than not, they have no idea that they ARE outlier users.

 

Let me tell you the 3 most common responses to someone who dislikes Win8, from someone who doesn't like it:

- You just don't like change.

- You're too lazy to learn it, but you'd get used to it if you tried

- You're just some "outlier" user whose opinion doesn't matter 

 

Way to break the fold and add something new to the conversation!

 

Most companies are using Twitter analysis to do market research, by analyzing tweets for their product's name, paired with positive or negative words, because they can look at such a huge number of people from a wide range of demographics.  Whether it represents the entire user base or not (I, for example, don't use twitter), it's probably the metric that Microsoft will listen to most.  Anyone have a link to one such study done on Win8?  

 

The very existence of a wikipedia article on the list of features removed from Windows 8 suggests that there are a lot more than necessary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8

I mean what were they trying to do by cutting so many features, save storage space?  Certainly not for PC users, we're in the terabyte age.  So for whom, the mobile users?  Well my recently installed Windows 8 folder takes up 13GB of space, which would fill my entire Atrix phone's internal storage.  Android takes up less than 4GB, and is more user-friendly (in that, I can use it the way I want, install non-approved apps without having to "jailbreak" it).

 

The fact is that Windows 8 was a dud for Microsoft:

 

• Microsoft says that 4 million users upgraded to Windows 8 over the weekend after its release,^[140][141] which CNET says was well below Microsoft's internal projections and have been described inside the company as disappointing.^[142]
• According to research firm NPD, sales of devices running Windows in the United States have declined 21 percent compared to the same time period in 2011.^[144] As the holiday shopping season wrapped up, Windows 8 sales continued to lag, even as Apple reported brisk sales.^[145] The market research firm IDC reported an overall drop in PC sales for the quarter, and said the drop may have been partly due to consumer reluctance to embrace the new features of the OS and poor support from OEM for these features.
• Intake of Windows 8 still lags behind that of Windows Vista and Windows 7 at the same point in their release cycles

[MikeChipshop Member]

+1 

 

---  But NO, The Windows 8 car dealers keep telling you that you'll love the W8 car you just test drove around and you should continue to test drive it some more because you just don't understand how it works and you should buy it anyway, even though you just didn't feel comfortable in it and you didn't think it would meet your needs.  Geeeeerrrr  !   Make them stop.

 

Correcting others when they are just plain wrong, isn't fanboyism nor is it trying to convince them otherwise, it's merely trying to help them out understanding a few points that have obviously passed them by and stopping fallacies going any further.

 

Most companies are using Twitter analysis to do market research, by analyzing tweets for their product's name, paired with positive or negative words, because they can look at such a huge number of people from a wide range of demographics.  Whether it represents the entire user base or not (I, for example, don't use twitter), it's probably the metric that Microsoft will listen to most.  Anyone have a link to one such study done on Win8?

Oh god no! Are we really going to use Twitter as a guide to public opinion? If so, i don't want to live on this planet any more.

[moeburn]

 

Correcting others when they are just plain wrong, isn't fanboyism nor is it trying to convince them otherwise, it's merely trying to help them out understanding a few points that have obviously passed them by and stopping fallacies going any further.

 

 

Wow, really?  I thought the only reason we were hearing from the pro-Win8 side was because people were defending a product that they loved.  But "correcting people who are wrong" and "merely trying to help them out"?  That's like the ultimate level of douchiness.  People just love to be corrected, and they will definitely thank you for telling them how wrong they are!  Especially when its over a matter of personal opinion.  Can I just say, we don't want your "help"?  It might be hard, but just try to let people who you think are total *******s who are completely wrong in every way and need to be told such, to just be wrong.  Let them be wrong.  See if you can!

 

I don't get it, why does it offend you so much?  Can't you like Windows 8, while we don't like it and ask for a patch to address a few key issues?

 

I mean, I can understand getting annoyed by the people who go "OMG WINDOWS 8 IS SO DEFECTIVE IT STUBBED MY TOE, BURNED MY PIZZA, AND DROWNED MY INFANT BABY!", but then, they're just trolls who shouldn't be fed.  We're trying to have a rational discussion here, and jerks like you make the whole process that much more painful for everyone involved.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Wow, really?  I thought the only reason we were hearing from the pro-Win8 side was because people were defending a product that they loved.  But "correcting people who are wrong" and "merely trying to help them out"?  That's like the ultimate level of douchiness.  People just love to be corrected, and they will definitely thank you for telling them how wrong they are!  Especially when its over a matter of personal opinion.  Can I just say, we don't want your "help"?  It might be hard, but just try to let people who you think are total *******s who are completely wrong in every way and need to be told such, to just be wrong.  Let them be wrong.  See if you can!

 

I don't get it, why does it offend you so much?  Can't you like Windows 8, while we don't like it and ask for a patch to address a few key issues?

 

I mean, I can understand getting annoyed by the people who go "OMG WINDOWS 8 IS SO DEFECTIVE IT STUBBED MY TOE, BURNED MY PIZZA, AND DROWNED MY INFANT BABY!", but then, they're just trolls who shouldn't be fed.  We're trying to have a rational discussion here, and jerks like you make the whole process that much more painful for everyone involved.

WOOOOOSSHHHHHH

That's the sound of the point rushing straight over your, very defensive, head.

My post was, quite obviously, for those that have missed a few settings, claimed some stuff has been dropped, not learnt where something is yet, for all the others that just don;t like Win8, then that's totally up to you and personal choice.

I appreciate you getting so excited though :p

[Dot Matrix]

Wikipedia also has pages for items removed in Windows 7, Vista, and XP as well. The existence of such pages isn't an indicator of anything.

[BajiRav]

Let me tell you the 3 most common responses to someone who dislikes Win8, from someone who doesn't like it:

- You just don't like change.

- You're too lazy to learn it, but you'd get used to it if you tried

- You're just some "outlier" user whose opinion doesn't matter 

 

Way to break the fold and add something new to the conversation!

 

Most companies are using Twitter analysis to do market research, by analyzing tweets for their product's name, paired with positive or negative words, because they can look at such a huge number of people from a wide range of demographics.  Whether it represents the entire user base or not (I, for example, don't use twitter), it's probably the metric that Microsoft will listen to most.  Anyone have a link to one such study done on Win8?  

 

The very existence of a wikipedia article on the list of features removed from Windows 8 suggests that there are a lot more than necessary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8

I mean what were they trying to do by cutting so many features, save storage space?  Certainly not for PC users, we're in the terabyte age.  So for whom, the mobile users?  Well my recently installed Windows 8 folder takes up 13GB of space, which would fill my entire Atrix phone's internal storage.  Android takes up less than 4GB, and is more user-friendly (in that, I can use it the way I want, install non-approved apps without having to "jailbreak" it).

 

The fact is that Windows 8 was a dud for Microsoft:

 

• Microsoft says that 4 million users upgraded to Windows 8 over the weekend after its release,[/size]^[140][141] which CNET says was well below Microsoft's internal projections and have been described inside the company as disappointing.[/size]^[142]
• According to research firm NPD, sales of devices running Windows in the United States have declined 21 percent compared to the same time period in 2011.[/size]^[144] As the holiday shopping season wrapped up, Windows 8 sales continued to lag, even as Apple reported brisk sales.[/size]^[145] The market research firm [/size]IDC reported an overall drop in PC sales for the quarter, and said the drop may have been partly due to consumer reluctance to embrace the new features of the OS and poor support from OEM for these features.[/size]
• Intake of Windows 8 still lags behind that of [/size]Windows Vista and [/size]Windows 7 at the same point in their release cycles[/size]

NPD doesn't count tablets and convertibles as PCs. That metric is meaningless.

[PGHammer]

One of the things I despise the most, are the "metro apps". Horrible things that are not nearly as good a desktop apps.

 

And yes, I really only did try maybe a dozen or so, but what I did see repulsed me.

 

Also note, that I only ever tried them on the desktop, they may well be great in their native environment(touch).

 

But on the desktop... yuck. And I honestly do not see how anyone can think otherwise...

Consider what sort of developers (and even developer teams) are writing the majority of ModernUI apps - they are NOT from the Win32 development side of software writing.  Further, you aren't the only one to complain about the horrific state of ModernUI apps - remember, I've only accepted a mere two ModernUI apps for daily usage.  However, because there ARE ModernUI apps that I find usable, I put the blame where it squarely belongs - on the developer, not the UI or API.  (Blaming the API for the horrible state of most applications would, if not should, be just as applicable to Android or iOS - so how come Google/Android and Apple/iOS get passes, yet Microsoft does not?  I blame neither Android or iOS for the sad state of most Android or iOS apps - while I *have* blamed both Google and Apple, it's not due to the respective APIs, but non-enforcement of their own TOS policies regarding feature neutrality.)

 

I'm not asking you - or anyone else - to accept poor ModernUI apps.  And thinking ModernUI is all about touch is, quite bluntly, an underestimation of ModernUI as both UI and UX - remember, I run Windows 8/Server 2012 on hardware that doesn't support touch at all.  While ModernUI has better touch support, it no more depends on it than Win32 does; if a ModernUI app has a bias - in any direction - that is on the developer of the app - not ModernUI in and of itself.

[startscreennope]

The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things), contains more features for accessing, organizing and managing shortcuts, has more shortcuts for accessing other parts of your computer such as network, devices, control panel, shutdown/restart, etc., better search, nested folder support, true context menu functionality, and doesn't break workflow by covering up the entire screen when you want to launch something.

Win 7 also has Advanced Appearance Settings, Aero, better "open with" dialogue and other dialogue boxes that have reduced functionality in Win 8, no forced edge shortcuts like the charms bar, boot to desktop, the more intuitive start button, etc. Some of these are being addressed in 8.1 but not all.

All management of shortcuts can be done within the start menu itself. With the start screen you need to open the actual folder in explorer (which is still ironically called the Start Menu folder in Win 8) even just to rename a shortcut or access shortcut properties.

Fullscreen apps are the antithesis to desktop window multitasking. Docking isn't a suitable replacement. Metro apps are basically useless to anyone who wants to use their PC for multitasking, work, or desktop applications.

Metro is a cynical move to force people to adopt to the Metro touch UI to make people more likely to choose an MS tablet/phone. All MS has managed to do is **** off their existing customers while failing to attract the iOS/Android crowd.

The claim that the start screen is functionally the same as the start menu is false, in fact it's less functional and efficient at doing its job as a shortcut organizer and launcher. Name calling, denying the above facts regarding functionality, and blaming your customers is a poor argument and a terrible business strategy.

The only customers buying large amounts of Win 8 licenses are OEMs, and they're not happy about it either as laptops and PC sales w/ Win 8 attached continue to plummet. All MS is doing is making a desperate, failing attempt to raise their 0.00001% phone/tablet marketshare and dismiss their desktop customers in the process.

 

I don't "hate" Windows 8, I refuse to use it because it lacks the features I need. The amount of arrogance, derision, insults, denial, stonewalling, and condescencion here by certain posters is mind boggling.

[moeburn]

I like pies.

[startscreennope]

The people with the most legitimate, functionality related gripes are power users and professionals that use their computers for work. The start screen might be fine for grandma checking her emails and facebook in a fullscreen app, but it is inferior for anyone trying to multitask, organize their shortcuts, and get work done.

These are the kinds of intelligent professionals who code the programs that obstinate, dismissive posters like Dot Matrix use to insult them with and dismiss their productivity concerns. Kind of like a creationist using a computer to spread luddite beliefs and condemn others.

It's actually the power users and professionals that are smarter and more productivity oriented than the obstinate posters who insult them as "ignorant whiners" for rejecting the start screen.

Quite ironic that the posters insulting others for rejecting the start screen are actually the ones who are ignorant (willfully or otherwise) and don't understand the issues. We use our computers harder, smarter, and more efficiently yet they don't understand and continue to insult us as if we were grandmas who only use their PCs to check facebook once a day.

 

I listed Aero and Advanced Appearence settings as two of many features removed or reducued in functionality. Those two are immediately seized on and cherry picked as "superficial weak spots" - clearly a sign we're dealing with willfully obstinate posters with agendas who refuse to recognize a single valid concern. But don't worry, us consumers will have the last laugh as Win 8 and win phones/tablets continue to crater in the marketplace.

[Dot Matrix]

Like I've said before, you CAN multitask in Windows 8, but ###### me if I know what I'm talking about. I guess all these windows I have open in Metro aren't proof of that.

And again, what the hell does AERO or Advanced Appearance Settings do to your productivity? Do you just sit and change your window borders all day?