BF4 on X1 at PAX Running on PC's

[Vandalsquad]

The Titanfall PCs there were crazy high-end and not even close to representative of how the game will actually look/run on Xbone.

 

Xbone so edgy guys. Both companies are doing this I think we can move along instead of posting a thread every time game tests crash back to windows.

[dead.cell]

I wouldn't call that a plus.

I would. I can't stand it when Microsoft or any company for that matter wants to charge forward telling us what the future is... only for them to not even utilize their own products. Like.. you want US to get used to something YOU designed, but not even you guys will give it a chance! :pinch:

 

Sorry, it's late. I think I need sleep hahah.

[JonnyLH]

Because the PC is their development platform and where they have the latest and most stable builds. 

So why show the same game on the PS4 where they knew it didn't look good as previously seen?

 

If anything, the PC and X1 are going to have the most common and stable builds due to similar code bases. Why so secret.

[HawkMan]

Has it actually been proven the PS4 demo was actually played on a PS4 though and not dummy boxes.

 

Either way, the fact that the PC and xbox versions share the development platform is probably the reason for that as well. 

[JonnyLH]

Has it actually been proven the PS4 demo was actually played on a PS4 though and not dummy boxes.

 

Either way, the fact that the PC and xbox versions share the development platform is probably the reason for that as well. 

That's no excuse to not show the game on the platform its intended for, especially this close to the release where people are edging to see what the game looks like on the X1.

 

On a side note, Albert Penello on NeoGAF went downtown around performance and percentage claims with the PS4. Read the N4G thread here:

http://n4g.com/news/1348120/microsofts-penello-no-way-is-xbox-one-giving-up-30-power-advantage-to-ps4

 

[GotBored]

I think the point of this thread was to outline the fact that PS4 was confident enough with its graphics output to actually show BF4 on a PS4 while Xbox One is still using PC's to showcase it even at the recent PAX event when both are releasing soon.

[HawkMan]

I think the point of this thread was to outline the fact that PS4 was confident enough with its graphics output to actually show BF4 on a PS4 while Xbox One is still using PC's to showcase it even at the recent PAX event when both are releasing soon.

 

 

And again, as far as I know, it's not actually been proven that the PS4 version of BF4 actually ran on PS4's

 

As for the Xbox one version, as long as the game is run at the same graphical fidelity settings as on the xbox, it really doesn't matter. Also this has nothing to do with either Sony or MS. as BF4 is an EA/Dice title, they're the ones deciding what hardware is used to demo the game. 

 

If I was demoing the game, and the xbox versions was virtually identical to the PC version and could play on exactly the same graphical settings, and being the same dev platform I could show off the absolutely latest and best build of the game, yes, I would. 

[GotBored]

And again, as far as I know, it's not actually been proven that the PS4 version of BF4 actually ran on PS4's

As for the Xbox one version, as long as the game is run at the same graphical fidelity settings as on the xbox, it really doesn't matter. Also this has nothing to do with either Sony or MS. as BF4 is an EA/Dice title, they're the ones deciding what hardware is used to demo the game.

If I was demoing the game, and the xbox versions was virtually identical to the PC version and could play on exactly the same graphical settings, and being the same dev platform I could show off the absolutely latest and best build of the game, yes, I would.

If they had the same graphics they would've just played it on an Xbox One, you are right that EA/Dice did run the bf4 stand but that makes it worse because Sony could just have a big head and be confident of their own system but the publisher having more confidence in the PS4 is a different ball game.

[HawkMan]

No, you're missing the point. same dev platform, means the PC will have a newer build of the game at any time. it's far easier for them to push builds for the PC platform and it's dead easy for them to set the graphics to be the same as the xbox can handle. Heck all the first gen games will run under what the consoles can handle anyway so they're graphics settings will be set lower than it could handle just so they know they can handle any potential hickups. 

 

Ad again, not proven that it was actually ran on the PS4. and even if it was, it has nothing to do with confidence. The only confidence they are showing there then is that they are confident their xbox dev kits are capable of running BF4 at higher settings than the PS4 since the PS4 version had much crappier graphics, and the booths are demonstrating at minimum launch equivalent graphics. 

[Fourjays Veteran]

Just as I've said regards the PS4 at E3, I wouldn't read into this too much. There are all sort of things developers will be fiddling with right up to the point the games go to manufacturing. Most likely explanation is it is a build that isn't Xbox-optimized yet. And there are a multitude of possible reasons for that.

[Fourjays Veteran]

No, you're missing the point. same dev platform, means the PC will have a newer build of the game at any time. it's far easier for them to push builds for the PC platform and it's dead easy for them to set the graphics to be the same as the xbox can handle. Heck all the first gen games will run under what the consoles can handle anyway so they're graphics settings will be set lower than it could handle just so they know they can handle any potential hickups. 

Could just as likely be an older build that hasn't been fully optimized for the Xbox yet. I personally think that far more likely than using the latest build, as I'd expect them to "fork" and refine a "safe" build specifically for demonstration purposes (last thing they'd want is some bug they're still chasing down in the latest build to pop-up in a public demonstration).

 

Either way, it is fairly meaningless to judge either console based on what is shown at these shows. Can only read into them what you want to as there are so many other factors involved.

[JonnyLH]

Could just as likely be an older build that hasn't been fully optimized for the Xbox yet. I personally think that far more likely than using the latest build, as I'd expect them to "fork" and refine a "safe" build specifically for demonstration purposes (last thing they'd want is some bug they're still chasing down in the latest build to pop-up in a public demonstration).

 

Either way, it is fairly meaningless to judge either console based on what is shown at these shows. Can only read into them what you want to as there are so many other factors involved.

I wish people stopped making these claims. BF uses the Frostbite engine which is designed against and specifically around DirectX. DirectX is 100% optimised on the X1. When it was placed on the X1, of course they will be optimising and finding some slightly better ways to operate compared to the PC and specific benefits of the X1, but it will of been holy optimised when they ported it on there. Exactly why MS are going with the common code base with WP, W8 and the X1. 

 

Whereas it would of been a dog to port the PS4.

 

So why they haven't shown it, and with the remarks of the developers from Ghost games makes me believe it looks a damn sight better. Whether it does, we'll find out.

[Fourjays Veteran]

I wish people stopped making these claims. BF uses the Frostbite engine which is designed against and specifically around DirectX. DirectX is 100% optimised on the X1. When it was placed on the X1, of course they will be optimising and finding some slightly better ways to operate compared to the PC and specific benefits of the X1, but it will of been holy optimised when they ported it on there. Exactly why MS are going with the common code base with WP, W8 and the X1. 

 

Whereas it would of been a dog to port the PS4.

 

So why they haven't shown it, and with the remarks of the developers from Ghost games makes me believe it looks a damn sight better. Whether it does, we'll find out.

Where did I mention it having anything to do with DirectX? There is a whole lot more that could still be being optimized. The simplest of things can have quite a drastic effect on how a game runs (in my brief foray into game development, a caching issue practically halved frame rates on computers less powerful than my own).

 

It isn't really important anyway, the point I'm making is that there are reasons why they may using a PC which would bare zero relevance on how the game performs come release. Hence why it is daft to be using pre-release demonstrations to compare the yet-to-be-released consoles.

[JonnyLH]

Where did I mention it having anything to do with DirectX? There is a whole lot more that could still be being optimized. The simplest of things can have quite a drastic effect on how a game runs (in my brief foray into game development, a caching issue practically halved frame rates on computers less powerful than my own).

 

It isn't really important anyway, the point I'm making is that there are reasons why they may using a PC which would bare zero relevance on how the game performs come release. Hence why it is daft to be using pre-release demonstrations to compare the yet-to-be-released consoles.

What's the whole lot more? An engine which is hugely optimized on the PC as standard will be MORE optimised on the X1. Welcome to MS's vision of the common codebase. That's why it doesn't add up for me.

[Arceles]

It isn't just the ESRAM.  Things are optimized for low latency with no driver issues and plenty of extra processors and such.

 

No console has ever done anything the PC can't do.  Good luck finding anything that measures up to the Xbox One audio chip in a PC though.

Well... my creative Z has a quad core arm processor... just for audio. FAR better to whatever xbox has on the die.

[spaceelf]

Well... my creative Z has a quad core arm processor... just for audio. FAR better to whatever xbox has on the die.

Your Creative Z doesn't even measure up to the Xbox 360 audio chip.

 

'Max no of voices - 128' processed in software to boot

I think 512 in hardware beats that.

[Arceles]

Your Creative Z doesn't even measure up to the Xbox 360 audio chip.

 

'Max no of voices - 128' processed in software to boot

I think 512 in hardware beats that.

Ahem... http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-sound-of-tomorrow/,

So... "128 sample-aligned", COMPRESSED!!! (just lovely).

 

Wikipedia:

"The X-Fi uses EAX 5.0 which supports up to 128 3D-positioned voices with up to four effects applied to each." BUT! that's a deprecated standard, nowadays OpenAL is used, that:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2871905/openal-determine-maximum-sources

http://www.techimo.com/forum/multimedia-audio/153374-64-1024-voices.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a-soundblaster,368-4.html

 

And as you can see that doubles the number of the Xbox1 (512 vs 1024), all of this for the older Creative X-Fi soundcards.

 

So... again, how was it? you really think consoles do ever catch up with PC? hell no, they are however software constrained that's by no means the same, and even at that, consoles only show to be closed systems.

[spaceelf]

And as you can see that doubles the number of the Xbox1 (512 vs 1024), all of this for the older Creative X-Fi soundcards.

 

So... again, how was it? you really think consoles do ever catch up with PC? hell no, they are however software constrained that's by no means the same, and even at that, consoles only show to be closed systems.

1024 in what imaginary universe?  The links you posted didn't even say anything to that effect.

 

You're really reaching if you have to make up numbers to prove your point.

 

And yes, OpenAL when it's actually used is decent, but a lot of people don't use it.

 

And you really think anyone uses uncompressed audio for games?

[JonnyLH]

Well... my creative Z has a quad core arm processor... just for audio. FAR better to whatever xbox has on the die.

Really can't fault creative and their audio hardware.

[Arceles]

1024 in what imaginary universe?  The links you posted didn't even say anything to that effect.

 

You're really reaching if you have to make up numbers to prove your point.

 

And yes, OpenAL when it's actually used is decent, but a lot of people don't use it.

 

And you really think anyone uses uncompressed audio for games?

Well, the third link describes quite nicely the 1024 voices. I just proved you that it's possible for my soundcard and even older soundcards, so Xbox1 is really nothing special. You just went after the biggest number (512) and assumed it better than a proper soundcard on PC. bad bad.

[spaceelf]

Well, the third link describes quite nicely the 1024 voices. I just proved you that it's possible for my soundcard and even older soundcards, so Xbox1 is really nothing special. You just went after the biggest number (512) and assumed it better than a proper soundcard on PC. bad bad.

If you're comparing unmixed theoretical in software to mixed hardware that's a bit silly.

 

Yeah...I don't think so.  The Z only does 128.  It even says it right on their product page.

[trooper11]

Oh my goodness.

 

You guys are insatiable, you cant get enough bs arguing.

 

1.  X1 or PS4 software demos on pc hardware is OK

2. Console hardware can use parts that exceed what pcs currently use, but the raw performance of things like cpu or gpu are not going to keep up with high end pcs.

[Arceles]

If you're comparing unmixed theoretical in software to mixed hardware that's a bit silly.

 

Yeah...I don't think so.  The Z only does 128.  It even says it right on their product page.

And I shown you how those are for an older API, the EAX 5.0. Nonetheless it simply doesn't compare, even if it did, if I wanted truly to pursue a "more voice count experience" rather than higher SnR, I would simply swap my soundcard for another one. That's the good think about PC which vastly differs from a closed system.

 

I take any day my soundcard over any onboard audio soundcard. as I truly believe in high quality audio (not voice count, which again, is higher for current pc soundcards).

[Fourjays Veteran]

What's the whole lot more? An engine which is hugely optimized on the PC as standard will be MORE optimised on the X1. Welcome to MS's vision of the common codebase. That's why it doesn't add up for me.

Umm, how about the game itself?  :huh: The engine isn't the game, merely the tool (to oversimplify matters). From my limited experience of developing a simple 2D game, just about any part of a game could cause problems. I think an issue with Frostbite is unlikely, but not entirely out of the question. Microsoft's common codebase would only help EA/Dice's development of the Frostbite engine so far so EA/Dice may have their own issues to resolve (there will be elements that are completely unrelated, as well as elements that are entirely new and/or Xbox One specific). As I said, I'd be surprised if there were any major issues with Frostbite at this point though.

 

And that may all be irrelevant anyway - they could just be using an older build for demonstration purposes (as I said before, I would expect them to "fork" a mostly-stable version at an earlier date and then refine it slightly for the purpose), so the build used could have issues running on the Xbox hardware that no longer exist in the latest development build. Not to mention the many other possible reasons (minor gameplay bugs when running on an Xbox, ease of access to PC vs Xbox kit, debug tools running in the background, more suitable for output to a big screen, easier to run exactly what they wanted to show, or even it just being a very recent build).

 

As I said here, and in the similar PS4 threads, judging the consoles and games from these pre-release demos is an exercise in futility and I really wouldn't try reading into it too much. Only time to be concerned is if there are issues post-release.

[spaceelf]

And I shown you how those are for an older API, the EAX 5.0. Nonetheless it simply doesn't compare, even if it did, if I wanted truly to pursue a "more voice count experience" rather than higher SnR, I would simply swap my soundcard for another one. That's the good think about PC which vastly differs from a closed system.

 

I take any day my soundcard over any onboard audio soundcard. as I truly believe in high quality audio (not voice count, which again, is higher for current pc soundcards).

The Z is as current as it gets.  128 is as high as it gets.  The PC does not have anything that compares to the Xbox 360/One sound chips, or I'd own it.

 

You're basically arguing that your card is better because it's on PC, not because of anything it actually does.