imac Apple launches faster iMacs with 802.11ac WiFi, Pro graphics, improved Flas

[sundayx Veteran]

for premium prices i expect things to be rainbows and lollipops

[xWhiplash]

So can somebody show an AIO that matches the iMac that is MASSIVELY less than the iMac?  And by massive, I mean more than a few hundred.  Different build quality (again NOT components but the casing), OS X, iLife, and all of those things add up too you know?

 

You cannot build an AIO yourself (well unless you REALLY know what you are doing), so showing these newegg prices are pointless.

 

If you do not care about the build quality, that does not matter.  Apple uses more expensive parts to build their systems than the cheapo plastic that some other companies use.  This does not mean Apple is over priced.  

 

These arguments REALLY need to stop.  

 

If you could, could you make an iMac yourself for less?  Of course.  Can you build your own computer cheaper than what any other company asks for?  Yes.  So why is it a big deal with Apple?

 

I can build a system that is cheaper than a $3,000 gaming Dell.  So what is the point exactly?  

 

Even if you do not care about AIO, you still have to compare Apples to Apples (no pun intended).  This is like saying laptops are WAY over priced because I can build my own desktop for cheaper.  You cannot compare different form factors.  

 

I can build a really decent desktop PC for half the price as an iMac, but again, they are two different form factors.  And again, I will be building and SERVICING it myself.  If something fails in my own build, I am the one who tries to fix it.  There is no customer support number I can call for my issues.  Unless I call customer support for each component in the system.

 

So warranty and customer support are included in the price of a product.

 

The OS cost is also included.  The OS X $20 price is just the upgrade cost.  Nobody knows what the full price of OS X is because the only way to get the full license (legally) is to buy an Apple product.

 

iLife is also included in the pricing.  Or do you think they just give that for free?

[adrynalyne]

So can somebody show an AIO that matches the iMac that is MASSIVELY less than the iMac?  

 

You cannot build an AIO yourself (well unless you REALLY know what you are doing), so showing these newegg prices are pointless.

 

If you do not care about the build quality, that does not matter.  Apple uses more expensive parts to build their systems than the cheapo plastic that some other companies use.  This does not mean Apple is over priced.  

 

These arguments REALLY need to stop.  

 

If you could, could you make an iMac yourself for less?  Of course.  Can you build your own computer cheaper than what any other company asks for?  Yes.  So why is it a big deal with Apple?

 

I can build a system that is cheaper than a $3,000 gaming Dell.  So what is the point exactly?  

 

Even if you do not care about AIO, you still have to compare Apples to Apples (no pun intended).  This is like saying laptops are WAY over priced because I can build my own desktop for cheaper.  You cannot compare different form factors.  

 

I can build a really decent desktop PC for half the price as an iMac, but again, they are two different form factors.  And again, I will be building and SERVICING it myself.  If something fails in my own build, I am the one who tries to fix it.  There is no customer support number I can call for my issues.  Unless I call customer support for each component in the system.

 

So warranty and customer support are included in the price of a product.

 

The OS cost is also included.  The OS X $20 price is just the upgrade cost.  Nobody knows what the full price of OS X is because the only way to get the full license (legally) is to buy an Apple product.

 

iLife is also included in the pricing.  Or do you think they just give that for free?

 

 

So the premium is in the casing?  If you can justify a premium that way, go for it.  Of course, when you look at upgrade prices from Apple, you see thats not really true.  Try adding extra ram and see how much they gouge.  Other OEMs gouge too, but not to that degree.  Maybe it is premium hands that install it?

 

Why include OS X price when Windows prices are built-in to costs too?

 

 OS X 10.6 can be purchased as a family pack for 29.99.  It is not an upgrade version.  If I go a little further back, I can get 10.5 for 135 bucks. So about the same as Windows OEM for that time period.   However, none of these are relevant.

 

iLife is fairly irrelevant too, considering that is 45.00 worth of software.  Windows OEMs offer at least that much bloat (more, really).

 

The first things I removed from my Mac was iMovie and GarageBand.  I kept iPhoto for the wife.

[xWhiplash]

So the premium is in the casing?  If you can justify a premium that way, go for it.

 

Why include OS X price when Windows prices are built-in to costs too?

 

 OS X 10.6 can be purchased as a family pack for 29.99.  It is not an upgrade version.  If I go a little further back, I can get 10.5 for 135 bucks. So about the same as Windows OEM for that time period.   However, none of these are relevant.

 

iLife is fairly irrelevant too, considering that is 45.00 worth of software.

 

So you know for a fact that Windows costs the same as OS X?

 

I hate to break it to you, but legally every OS X is an upgrade edition.  It requires a valid Apple product to install it legally.  You cannot buy a Mac without OS X so technically every OS X versions you buy after the fact are all upgrade editions.  If you use those family packs or 10.5 for a hackintosh, well that is breaking the licensing, so it is not really legally a full license.  

 

Not to mention that now, OS X costs $30 and contains 5 installs.  Where does the rest of that OS X development cost get covered?  New products.

 

And again, iLife is included in every mac.  So those iLife prices are technically upgrade editions as well.  Do you really think a software suite like iLife would JUST be $45?  Like if you could buy it in the stores and NOT require a mac (run it in Windows for example).  I highly doubt it.  Garageband alone would be worth $100 if not more.

[The Norwegian Drone Pilot]

The day Apple can use extremely high quality products like ASUS, EVGA or Zotaz GPU's, ASUS or MSI motherboards, Corsair or Kingston RAM modules and Corsair, Noctua, NZXT or Phanteks CPU coolers that everyone know is high quality brands / products just to take those as an example in their iMac's or Mac Pro's, then it will be the day i will take Apple's iMacs or Mac Pro's for premium products.

 

Just putting together something cheap that works doesn't mean it's premium just because the casing is out of aluminum and because it's Apple.

[adrynalyne]

So you know for a fact that Windows costs the same as OS X?

 

I hate to break it to you, but legally every OS X is an upgrade edition.  It requires a valid Apple product to install it legally.  You cannot buy a Mac without OS X so technically every OS X versions you buy after the fact are all upgrade editions.

 

And again, iLife is included in every mac.  So those iLife prices are technically upgrade editions as well.  Do you really think a software suite like iLife would JUST be $45?  Like if you could buy it in the stores and NOT require a mac (run it in Windows for example).  I highly doubt it.  Garageband alone would be worth $100 if not more.

No, OS X probably costs less (and Windows OEMs too who don't have to purchase single licenses).  My example was using the price of an OEM Builder license, not retail.  Knowing that Apple doesn't pass on savings to their users, OS X is probably far less per machine, esepcially since it is in-House..

 

I remember the PPC days.  OS X was about 120-140 bucks retail (full version).  So I am not sure what you are driving at.

 

Point taken about iLife.  It could cost a little more at its most expensive moment was 80 bucks.  It wasn't always bundled with Macs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILife

[xWhiplash]

Dell XPS ($1,599)

 

27-inch: Up to 3.2GHz

4th Generation Intel? Core? i5-4430S processor (6M Cache, up to 3.2 GHz)

8GB Dual Channel DDR3 1600MHz (4GBx2)

1TB hard drive

Intel HD Graphics without TPM

 

Apple iMac ($1,799):

 

27-inch: 3.2GHz

3.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz

8GB (two 4GB) memory

1TB hard drive

NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M with 1GB video memory

 

YEAH....the Dell is MASSIVELY lower.

 

No, OS X probably costs less (and Windows OEMs too who don't have to purchase single licenses).  My example was using the price of an OEM Builder license I was referring to, not retail.  Knowing that Apple doesn't pass on savings to their users, OS X is probably far less per machine, esepcially since it is in-House..

 

I remember the PPC days.  OS X was about 120-140 bucks retail (full version).  So I am not sure what you are driving at.

 

Point taken about iLife.  It could cost a little more at its most expensive moment was 80 bucks.  It wasn't always bundled with Macs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILife

 

 

But do those OS X licenses work LEGALLY in any computer you have?  No they LEGALLY have to be an Apple branded computer.  Therefore, you had a full version included in the pricing of the Mac when you purchased it.

 

I remember the OS X at $120 as well.  That did not mean I could install it on my Dell.

[adrynalyne]

 

Dell XPS ($1,599)

 

27-inch: Up to 3.2GHz

4th Generation Intel? Core? i5-4430S processor (6M Cache, up to 3.2 GHz)

8GB Dual Channel DDR3 1600MHz (4GBx2)

1TB hard drive

Intel HD Graphics without TPM

 

Apple iMac ($1,799):

 

27-inch: 3.2GHz

3.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz

8GB (two 4GB) memory

1TB hard drive

NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M with 1GB video memory

 

YEAH....the Dell is MASSIVELY lower.

 

 

 

But do those OS X licenses work LEGALLY in any computer you have?  No they LEGALLY have to be an Apple branded computer.  Therefore, you had a full version included in the pricing of the Mac when you purchased it.

 

I remember the OS X at $120 as well.  That did not mean I could install it on my Dell.

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

You aren't saving money on OS X because it is limited to your Mac.  OS X is simply less expensive than Windows and as you quite clearly are not comprehending, is not a valid point in their price markup.  Even if Apple was giving the price break because it is tied to a Mac, that makes it about as expensive as an OEM Builder single license, which too, per the EULA, is tied to the computer.

 

So Apple and other OEMs build the price of the OS into the cost of the system.  Windows isn't free for OEMs ya know.

[xWhiplash]

Completely irrelevant.

 

You aren't saving money on OS X because it is limited to your Mac.  OS X is simply less expensive than Windows and as you quite clearly are not comprehending, is not a valid point in their price markup.  Even if Apple was giving the price break because it is tied to a Mac, that makes it about as expensive as an OEM Builder single license, which too, per the EULA, is tied to the computer.

 

So you know for a fact that NO MATTER WHAT, OS X is always less expensive than Windows?  How.  How do you know this?  How do you KNOW that they do not include most of the pricing in a new product?

 

Just like when I buy a $299 Dell.  I am getting a Windows License included in the price of the computer.  Therefore, Apple would have the same thing.  They do not hand that software out for free.  

 

How do you know that OS X OEM License would cost the same as OEM License of Windows?  I do not know that either.  All I am saying is, all these little things add up.  

 

All of these topics are always about specs, but people like you forget all the little things like build quality, OS X, iLife, ...

 

THOSE ALL ADD UP!

[ctebah]

Just putting together something cheap that works doesn't mean it's premium just because the casing is out of aluminum and because it's Apple.

 

iMacs are known to last longer than their windows counterparts.  This has been a known fact for quite some time now.  Adding premium components to it won't make any difference. 

[adrynalyne]

iMacs are known to last longer than their windows counterparts.  This has been a known fact for quite some time now.  Adding premium components to it won't make any difference. 

That really is subjective.

 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2433700?start=0&tstart=0

[The Norwegian Drone Pilot]

iMacs are known to last longer than their windows counterparts.  This has been a known fact for quite some time now.  Adding premium components to it won't make any difference. 

So let me know what kind of brands or products Apple use in their iMac's and Mac Pro's then?

 

If they just use some cheap products made by some unknown / little known brands, it will NOT make the iMac's or Mac Pro's to last longer than any custom buildt computers. If you think that, it will only be something you think, not something you know.

 

Oh wait, everything with Apple is just magical, so everything lasts longer there because Apple does magic?

 

Yes i know iMac's is not the exact same as stationary computers. But a GPU is a GPU though. It's about what products they are using in their iMac's and Mac Pro's.

[ctebah]

That really is subjective.

 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2433700?start=0&tstart=0

 

Sorry, I was going by industry average, not just one user.  My bad.

 

Also, same complaint:

 

I've had about 15 different Macs since '88 and only once have I had a hard drive fail on me, and that was a Mac Quadra 700 with a twitchy Seagate drive from the time Apple was lost in the wilderness.

 

[adrynalyne]

Sorry, I was going by industry average, not just one user.  My bad.

 

Also, same complaint:

One user?

 

That was one example.  There are many more out there.

 

We cannot accurately say that iMacs are more reliable unless we deal with the same amount of users vs. another company.  The more users you have, the more failures are noticed.  Right?

 

I've had more PCs than that since '95, and I've only had one hard drive failure myself.  It was an IBM drive.

[ctebah]

So let me know what kind of brands or products Apple use in their iMac's and Mac Pro's then?

 

If they just use some cheap products made by some unknown / little known brands, it will NOT make the iMac's or Mac Pro's to last longer than any custom buildt computers. If you think that, it will only be something you think, not something you know.

 

Oh wait, everything with Apple is just magical, so everything loasts longer there because Apple does magic?

 

Don't be ridiculous, no one is saying it's magical.  If you want to discuss things, do it as an adult, not a kid. 

 

They mostly use Hynix memory (2nd largest manufacturer of memory), Nvidia or ATI Graphic cards, Intel CPU's and as far I know they design their own motherboards and Foxcon builds them.  I thought this was common knowlegde by now.

[xWhiplash]

One user?

 

That was one example.  There are many more out there.

 

We cannot accurately say that iMacs are more reliable unless we deal with the same amount of users vs. another company.  The more users you have, the more failures are noticed.  Right?

 

I've had more PCs than that since '95, and I've only had one hard drive failure myself.  It was an IBM drive.

 

Yes because no matter who the manufacturer is, there will always be failure rate.  Why are people shocked at this?

 

I got a hard drive on Newegg once and it died one month later.  THIS HAPPENS in computer components.

 

I got a EVGA NVIDIA 670 GTX and kept giving me blue screens when I played any games with it.  Turned out it was a faulty card.  I got the GTX 680 (still EVGA since I like them) instead and it is still running perfectly fine.

 

Again....THIS HAPPENS.

[ctebah]

We cannot accurately say that iMacs are more reliable unless we deal with the same amount of users vs. another company.  The more users you have, the more failures are noticed.  Right?

 

No, us on Neowin can't, but the industry averages are out there for everyone to see.  Apple has come on top in Reliability, Customer Satisfaction and Support for many years.

[adrynalyne]

No, us on Neowin can't, but the industry averages are out there for everyone to see.  Apple has come on top in Reliability, Customer Satisfaction and Support for many years.

It is easy to top reliability for 500,000 machines vs. 10x times that.  (made up numbers, but you get the idea).

 

The odds are stacked against the larger sellers.

 

One thing I will give Apple credit for, they stand by their products:

 

http://www.apple.com/support/imac-harddrive/

[The Norwegian Drone Pilot]

Don't be ridiculous, no one is saying it's magical.  If you want to discuss things, do it as an adult, not a kid. 

 

They mostly use Hynix memory (2nd largest manufacturer of memory), Nvidia or ATI Graphic cards, Intel CPU's and as far I know they design their own motherboards and Foxcon builds them.  I thought this was common knowlegde by now.

But the question is still, what are their modules in their iMac's and Mac Pro's worth compared to what you have to pay for it?

 

And no, i'm not discussing like a kid, i was just making a point.

[adrynalyne]

Yes because no matter who the manufacturer is, there will always be failure rate.  Why are people shocked at this?

 

I got a hard drive on Newegg once and it died one month later.  THIS HAPPENS in computer components.

 

I got a EVGA NVIDIA 670 GTX and kept giving me blue screens when I played any games with it.  Turned out it was a faulty card.  I got the GTX 680 (still EVGA since I like them) instead and it is still running perfectly fine.

 

Again....THIS HAPPENS.

Nobody is shocked.

 

I am saying Apple is not immune, and therefore should not be assumed to be some machine of epic reliability.  Why?  Because of exactly what you said.

[xWhiplash]

But the question is still, what are their modules in their iMac's and Mac Pro's worth compared to what you have to pay for it?

 

And no, i'm not discussing like a kid, i was just making a point.

 

I thought we covered this?  They have various companies.  Samsung and Kingston ram to name a couple common ones.  ATI and NVIDIA graphics.  They build their own motherboard.  Intel processors.

[ctebah]

But the question is still, what are their modules in their iMac's and Mac Pro's worth compared to what you have to pay for it?

 

And no, i'm not discussing like a kid, i was just making a point.

 

They probably pay less than what I would as they are a huge company and get a volume discount.  However, I usually install my memory modules inside a well cooled PC case whereas they have to stick them inside a tiny case behind a screen and make sure it works. 

 

Also, the slots I install my memory into are pre-configured by the manufacturer.  I just put them in and hope they work.  Apple has to pay people to design a form factor that takes things like heat and placement into account so that the iMac can be smaller. 

 

Apple has successfully designed their own SOC for the iPhone which has proven how much performance you can get out of something when you do your own design.  Same goes for the iMac.

[adrynalyne]

They probably pay less than what I would as they are a huge company and get a volume discount.  However, I usually install my memory modules inside a well cooled PC case whereas they have to stick them inside a tiny case behind a screen and make sure it works. 

 

Also, the slots I install my memory into are pre-configured by the manufacturer.  I just put them in and hope they work.  Apple has to pay people to design a form factor that takes things like heat and placement into account so that the iMac can be smaller. 

 

Apple has successfully designed their own SOC for the iPhone which has proven how much performance you can get out of something when you do your own design.  Same goes for the iMac.

Except that they didn't design their own CPU and GPU.

 

Their casing isn't providing performance to...anything.

 

They have proven you can fit an amazing amount of stuff in a slim spot with their design.  Performance shouldn't even be mentioned.

[ctebah]

It is easy to top reliability for 500,000 machines vs. 10x times that.  (made up numbers, but you get the idea).

 

The odds are stacked against the larger sellers.

 

One thing I will give Apple credit for, they stand by their products:

 

http://www.apple.com/support/imac-harddrive/

 

Actually, I wouldn't put Apple agains the whole PC sector, rather against individual PC manufacturers.  They all design their PC's themselves and have control over their components. 

 

If one was to measure all of PC's vs Apple in reliability and such, then it wouldn't be so far.  But once you are comparing Apple to Lenovo, HP, Dell, Asus, etc, it can be fair to say that Apple coming on top is deserved.

[adrynalyne]

Actually, I wouldn't put Apple agains the whole PC sector, rather against individual PC manufacturers.  They all design their PC's themselves and have control over their components. 

 

If one was to measure all of PC's vs Apple in reliability and such, then it wouldn't be so far.  But once you are comparing Apple to Lenovo, HP, Dell, Asus, etc, it can be fair to say that Apple coming on top is deserved.

Are they selling the same numbers as <<insert OEM>> ?

 

This really is a numbers game.

 

1 machine has less chance of seeing failure than 10.