PS4 and Xbox One resolution / frame rate discussion

[Brendeth]

Wow just read about the KZ 1080 *statements* from Sony: http://www.crappyreviews.com/1/post/2014/03/shame-on-sony-for-lying-to-consumers.html

The more interesting part is that no one really noticed the difference even though according to everyone who has a ps4 its so easy to spot....

trooper: thanks for the COD video.

While I think his article is definitely flamebait, he raises an interesting point about those gaming sites always making a big deal out of Xbox One games not reaching but 1080p\60fps but I'm yet to see one of those major players discussing this Killzone deal.

I personally don't consider the Killzone res as a big deal from a technical standpoint, GG did what they had to do to reach 60fps and that is what matters in multiplayer shooters, but from a consumer standpoint I am disappointed in these kind of shoddy marketing techniques.

[mrdeezus]

http://microsoft-news.com/sony-caught-lying-to-ps4-users/

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Topics merged

 

No custom titles

[trooper11]

Ah, so the big deal was that KZ was in fact running at 720p/60 (or something close to that) while in MP?

On the surface, that isnt a big deal to me, but considering how many people focus so much on the res/frame rate of these new gen games and the fact that everyone was saying confidently that KZ was running at 1080p/60 in MP and you have a problem.

If Sony misled us, that's even worse. Its not even a game I was that interested in, but it sets a bad precedent.

[Lord Method Man]

It was actually 1920ix1080. It uses a weird form of horizontal interlacing to only render 960x1080 frames at 60 fps.

[1337ish]

It was actually 1920ix1080. It uses a weird form of horizontal interlacing to only render 960x1080 frames at 60 fps.

The render was 960x1080, how they upscaled or interlaced doesn't change that fact (according to many many many people upscaling etc means you have a toaster rather than console). Its not a big deal unless you're marketing it as 1080p and its not.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Guerilla have posted a long answer about the MP on their blog

http://www.killzone.com/en_GB/blog/news/2014-03-06_regarding-killzone-shadow-fall-and-1080p.html

Putting aside the arguments, its interesting to read how they've done things. I don't know how they should define their resolution, but they should be clear its not 1080p as we have come to know it.

[BajiRav]

Guerilla have posted a long answer about the MP on their blog

http://www.killzone.com/en_GB/blog/news/2014-03-06_regarding-killzone-shadow-fall-and-1080p.html

Putting aside the arguments, its interesting to read how they've done things. I don't know how they should define their resolution, but they should be clear its not 1080p as we have come to know it.

So many words to say "we don't render in native 1080p". :/ Interesting technique or not, they were caught lying and are now trying to redefine what "native" means.

[trooper11]

It was actually 1920ix1080. It uses a weird form of horizontal interlacing to only render 960x1080 frames at 60 fps.

Sounds confusing.

 

 

The render was 960x1080, how they upscaled or interlaced doesn't change that fact (according to many many many people upscaling etc means you have a toaster rather than console). Its not a big deal unless you're marketing it as 1080p and its not.

That was part of my point before. As long as they dont try to market it being something that it is not, I have no problem at all with a game not running at 1080p as long as its pleasing to my eyes. Developers just need to level with us and hopefully we can be mature enough to accept it and move on.

 

 

Putting aside the arguments, its interesting to read how they've done things. I don't know how they should define their resolution, but they should be clear its not 1080p as we have come to know it.

Yeah, the problem is that they were not clear about this before release. It just comes off as dishonest.

The sad thing is that if they had simply laid this out before, it would not change how good or bad KZ turned out to be. Could it be that someone there felt that becuase there was so much focus on resolution from the online community that info like this would result in negative pr.

The last thing we need is for developers to be afraid to admit their game runs below 1080p and resort to various forms of coverup. Developers just need to lay it all out to us and then show us the game. The final result is what will sell the game, not a single spec.

[George P Global Moderator]

This whole KZ thing just goes to show that if the game is done well, textures look good, AA is good and so on, if the native res isn't exactly 1080p but a bit lower, and the upscaler does it's job like it should, few people, if anyone, will actually notice.   Then again you can have a 900p game look every bit as good as a 1080p one IMO.    In most cases, at least early on, the upscaler on the XB1 wasn't doing such a good job on a few gams, like CoD, and that sharpening effect wasn't helping.   That's out of the picture now and unless everyone wants to pause and zoom in 400% to pick out small details I think fewer and fewer gamers will care going forward.

 

Of course, I'm still of the opinion that we'll keep seeing more and more games hitting 1080p on both.   I heard the Watch Dogs info today and they say the two versions look so much alike that you'd have to look at the menus to notice which is which.  I'm sure that won't stop the usual suspects from dissecting it and picking out where individual pixels are different when the game comes out.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

This whole KZ thing just goes to show that if the game is done well, textures look good, AA is good and so on, if the native res isn't exactly 1080p but a bit lower, and the upscaler does it's job like it should, few people, if anyone, will actually notice. Then again you can have a 900p game look every bit as good as a 1080p one IMO. In most cases, at least early on, the upscaler on the XB1 wasn't doing such a good job on a few gams, like CoD, and that sharpening effect wasn't helping. That's out of the picture now and unless everyone wants to pause and zoom in 400% to pick out small details I think fewer and fewer gamers will care going forward.

Of course, I'm still of the opinion that we'll keep seeing more and more games hitting 1080p on both. I heard the Watch Dogs info today and they say the two versions look so much alike that you'd have to look at the menus to notice which is which. I'm sure that won't stop the usual suspects from dissecting it and picking out where individual pixels are different when the game comes out.

Watch Dogs is rumoured to be 960/30 vs 1080/30

http://www.thearabgamer.com/2014/03/watch-dogs-1080p-on-ps4-960p-on-xbox.html?spref=tw

Trying to find out about this apparent "press conference" ......

[Hedon]

This whole KZ thing just goes to show that if the game is done well, textures look good, AA is good and so on, if the native res isn't exactly 1080p but a bit lower, and the upscaler does it's job like it should, few people, if anyone, will actually notice.   Then again you can have a 900p game look every bit as good as a 1080p one IMO.    In most cases, at least early on, the upscaler on the XB1 wasn't doing such a good job on a few gams, like CoD, and that sharpening effect wasn't helping.   That's out of the picture now and unless everyone wants to pause and zoom in 400% to pick out small details I think fewer and fewer gamers will care going forward.

 

Of course, I'm still of the opinion that we'll keep seeing more and more games hitting 1080p on both.   I heard the Watch Dogs info today and they say the two versions look so much alike that you'd have to look at the menus to notice which is which.  I'm sure that won't stop the usual suspects from dissecting it and picking out where individual pixels are different when the game comes out.

Yeah, I saw the same thing. They were saying that they were using the extra dev time to make the games equal. Great news for gamers.

[trooper11]

Watch Dogs is rumoured to be 960/30 vs 1080/30

http://www.thearabgamer.com/2014/03/watch-dogs-1080p-on-ps4-960p-on-xbox.html?spref=tw

Trying to find out about this apparent "press conference" ......

If that turns out to be true and the only difference between the two versions is 960 vs 1080, then that wouldnt be nearly as bad as say 720 vs 1080. It would also mean that visual differences would be much more difficult to spot.

[Hedon]

If that turns out to be true and the only difference between the two versions is 960 vs 1080, then that wouldnt be nearly as bad as say 720 vs 1080. It would also mean that visual differences would be much more difficult to spot.

It was all just a matter of time. More time with the console has shown that the games later in development are pumping out more and more higher res games. Same thing happened last gen.

[1337ish]

It was all just a matter of time. More time with the console has shown that the games later in development are pumping out more and more higher res games. Same thing happened last gen.

Yeah it took an age before the ps3 really started to chew out higher res, the 360 had the edge quite a lot last gen when many said "it doesnt matter GTA is lower res on ps3, its still bestz"

[blerk]

I'll be interested to see how the release of  DirectX 12 will affect this whole debate. After all, it is coming to Xbox One, and was most likely developed right alongside the Xbox with lots of cross-pollination between the teams. 

[firey]

Current List:

I'll be interested to see how the release of  DirectX 12 will affect this whole debate. After all, it is coming to Xbox One, and was most likely developed right alongside the Xbox with lots of cross-pollination between the teams. 

Yea, I am interested to see this too.  Also wondering if any updates to OpenGL will affect things on the PS4 side.

[Hedon]

Current List:

Yea, I am interested to see this too.  Also wondering if any updates to OpenGL will affect things on the PS4 side.

That list is missing about half the games.

[Ironman273]

From discussion of other games both here and around the internet it seems like most people are fine with how a game looks until some website with a pause button and a microscope starts putting out numbers.  Then it turns into "OMG teh biggest number winz!!"  What about how you liked the game before?  "It doesn't matter now!! I know numbers!"

[trooper11]

From discussion of other games both here and around the internet it seems like most people are fine with how a game looks until some website with a pause button and a microscope starts putting out numbers.  Then it turns into "OMG teh biggest number winz!!"  What about how you liked the game before?  "It doesn't matter now!! I know numbers!"

That stems from the fact that some people simply cannot be adults about this stuff. They feel compeled to argue bs, troll others, or otherwise just create chaos for fun.

Having this info about games is great on the one hand, especially for those of us that are interested in the differences or just want to know which version of a game to get, but its spoiled by those that want make it a referendum on how good or bad a platform is.

[Ironman273]

For example, I remember when people were discussing Battlefield 4.  There was a scene that (I think) they're looking over a garbage dump and there are birds flying over head.  If I remember correctly (I've never played BF4) the Xbox One version didn't have birds.  That to me is a much bigger reason to complain about one version vs. another one  Conversely there were screenshots of Thief where the PS4 version seemed like it had textures that looked worse.  Same thing there, regardless of whether it's running under 1080p or at 1080p.

 

Another thing is if the Xbox One gets better in graphics, whether with better coding or Direct X 12 or whatever, and makes it up to 1080p @ 60fps, then what?  The PS4 is at that.  Is there a step above that the consoles could make?  I think 4K is too big a step so it's conceivable as debs get more acquainted with the hardware it'll run at 1080 and that's that.

[123456789A]

Another thing is if the Xbox One gets better in graphics, whether with better coding or Direct X 12 or whatever, and makes it up to 1080p @ 60fps, then what?  The PS4 is at that.  Is there a step above that the consoles could make?  I think 4K is too big a step so it's conceivable as debs get more acquainted with the hardware it'll run at 1080 and that's that.

 

4K would be way too much of a leap for either console to manage. I'd just expect both to hit 1080p regularly and probably throw in some better antialiasing.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Ignoring the CBoAT drama in this topic it seems Titanfall is 792p at retail

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=781343

[gohpep]

Well they'll probably work on improving in game graphics and AI. You can have a game output at 1080p 60fps, but have 16x textures. (minecraft)

[George P Global Moderator]

For example, I remember when people were discussing Battlefield 4.  There was a scene that (I think) they're looking over a garbage dump and there are birds flying over head.  If I remember correctly (I've never played BF4) the Xbox One version didn't have birds.  That to me is a much bigger reason to complain about one version vs. another one  Conversely there were screenshots of Thief where the PS4 version seemed like it had textures that looked worse.  Same thing there, regardless of whether it's running under 1080p or at 1080p.

 

Another thing is if the Xbox One gets better in graphics, whether with better coding or Direct X 12 or whatever, and makes it up to 1080p @ 60fps, then what?  The PS4 is at that.  Is there a step above that the consoles could make?  I think 4K is too big a step so it's conceivable as debs get more acquainted with the hardware it'll run at 1080 and that's that.

 

I've brought that up a few times, once the XB1 has all it's games at 1080p@60fps then there is nothing higher, all you could argue about then is who has the better color pallet (something that came up in the 360 vs PS3 early days) and zooming in 400% to find out what the differences are in some textures (like they did with thief already).   The thing is this'll never end, one side or the other will just move the goal posts further and bring up something else.

 

Also, Titanfall has a day 1 patch people will have to get, 840MB from what I remember.  Don't know what if anything that will add or fix or w/e.  

4K would be way too much of a leap for either console to manage. I'd just expect both to hit 1080p regularly and probably throw in some better antialiasing.

 

4k won't be a goal for consoles till the majority of people at home have a 4k screen.  That could be 5 years or it could be 10yrs, in which case we'll be talking about the next Xbox and PS5.

 

Few PC gamers are even doing 4k, I think it takes something like quad-SLI/Crossfire to pull it off, we're talking about a minority of a minority of the PC gaming market trying to do that.   Today, when it comes to PC and high-end we're talking 1440p tops.