PS4 and Xbox One resolution / frame rate discussion

[theyarecomingforyou]

I've brought that up a few times, once the XB1 has all it's games at 1080p@60fps then there is nothing higher, all you could argue about then is who has the better color pallet (something that came up in the 360 vs PS3 early days) and zooming in 400% to find out what the differences are in some textures (like they did with thief already).   The thing is this'll never end, one side or the other will just move the goal posts further and bring up something else.

It comes down to image quality and performance - the difference with this generation is that the XB1 is being substantially outperformed by the PS4. However, once they both start hitting 1080p more consistently?which seems more than likely?as long as the difference is relatively small most people won't care, as other factors will become more important. There will always be a technical discussion on the platform differences though, as the same was true with the X360 / PS3.

 

Few PC gamers are even doing 4k, I think it takes something like quad-SLI/Crossfire to pull it off, we're talking about a minority of a minority of the PC gaming market trying to do that.   Today, when it comes to PC and high-end we're talking 1440p tops.

I game at 1600p @60fps and my system is a couple of years old now. It shouldn't be more than a year or two for high-end PCs to be able to hit 4K @60fps comfortably and DX12 is just around the corner, which will almost certainly increase image quality / performance. Even now many, if not most, games will run fine at 4K with a dual-GPU setup, though games like Crysis 3 and Metro: Last Light are too demanding (they average about 40fps).

[McKay]

Hopefully once DX12 comes out it will enable the XO to hit 1080 on the demanding games, and we can go back to arguing about the petty graphics differences when zoomed in and staring at brick textures like last generation. 

 

I don't remember the resoltion debate propping up last generation when later games like battlefield 3 started running in slightly higher resolution on the PS3 than 360.

[George P Global Moderator]

It comes down to image quality and performance - the difference with this generation is that the XB1 is being substantially outperformed by the PS4. However, once they both start hitting 1080p more consistently?which seems more than likely?as long as the difference is relatively small most people won't care, as other factors will become more important. There will always be a technical discussion on the platform differences though, as the same was true with the X360 / PS3.

 

 

I game at 1600p @60fps and my system is a couple of years old now. It shouldn't be more than a year or two for high-end PCs to be able to hit 4K @60fps comfortably and DX12 is just around the corner, which will almost certainly increase image quality / performance. Even now many, if not most, games will run fine at 4K with a dual-GPU setup, though games like Crysis 3 and Metro: Last Light are too demanding (they average about 40fps).

 

You're still part of the minority that I talked about, the majority games in the 1080p to 1440p range because that's what the native res of their monitor tends to be at. 

[vcfan]

Titanfall launches at the same "792p" resolution as the beta code released last month, according to reports that surfaced over the weekend, and officially confirmed by Respawn lead engineer Richard Baker during a recent interview with Digital Foundry.

 

"We've been experimenting with making it higher and lower. One of the big tricks is how much ESRAM we're going to use, so we're thinking of not using hardware MSAA and instead using FXAA to make it so we don't have to have this larger render target," Baker told us.

 

"We're going to experiment. The target is either 1080p non-anti-aliased or 900p with FXAA. We're trying to optimise... we don't want to give up anything for higher res. So far we're not 100 per cent happy with any of the options, we're still working on it. For day one it's not going to change. We're still looking at it for post-day one. We're likely to increase resolution after we ship."

 

What's curious about this response is that ESRAM utilisation appears to be key for Respawn as opposed to raw GPU power, as the jump from 792p to 900p, and again to 1080p are highly significant resolution bumps unlikely to be resolved by switching away from multi-sampling anti-aliasing (MSAA) alone. However, theoretically, dropping MSAA from a 1408x792 framebuffer could free up enough ESRAM to accommodate a 1080p image. In our recent tech analysis of the beta, we were curious about how Respawn could increase resolution so dramatically when the 792p code we played had issues sustaining a locked 60fps.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-ships-at-792p

[theyarecomingforyou]

You're still part of the minority that I talked about, the majority games in the 1080p to 1440p range because that's what the native res of their monitor tends to be at. 

Absolutely. I didn't claim to represent the majority of PC gamers?each of my graphics cards cost more than an Xbox One?but my point is that 1600p is perfectly achievable with current hardware with just a single GPU and it won't be long until that's true for 4K. Certainly 4K will be quite common in three-four years time when we're half way through the current console cycle, if not sooner. Don't forget that 1080p was starting to take off when the X360 and PS3 launched with 720p support.

 

I agree that 4K was never on the table for this console generation but they should have at least been able to hit 1080p comfortably. Both Sony and Microsoft took shortcuts this generation, though Microsoft clearly took things too far - especially given the decision to bundle the Kinect and charge significantly more for the XB1 as a result.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

DF analysis of PvZ GW

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-ships-at-792p

 

While no DF, Giantbomb is reliable enough to warrant posting this http://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/this-is-not-a-titanfall-review-yet/1900-630/

 

The frame rate in Titanfall is uneven on the Xbox One and though it's usually fine, it can get downright nasty in specific situations. In one Last Titan Standing match--where every player spawns in a robot suit--several players crammed their mechs into a tight area and began duking it out, and the frame rate dived down to what must have been single digits per second. Even out in wider areas, the game feels a little hitchy from time to time, and there's noticeable tearing throughout. The visuals in Titanfall look nice, but that's mostly due to some solid art and interesting design, not the performance. As of this writing, I haven't seen enough of the PC version to know how well it runs.

 

 

They'll need to work some magic to get to 1080p!

[Hedon]

Digital Foundry said that when the game does dip, it's to 35-45fps, though rare. That as on the beta.

[trooper11]

They'll need to work some magic to get to 1080p!

Let me save you some time: They wont hit it.

[George P Global Moderator]

Not saying they plan to do anything or to what extent but if they feel like they can update it and get better performance then go for it.  If 1080p can't be done at this point then aim for 900p, really res is just another bullet point right now.  We know a 900p game with good AA can look every bit as well as a 1080p version.  When the differences are so minor does it actually matter?  Graphics are more than just that.  So far everyone, or everyone I've seen post, has said the game is great and good fun, not perfect but worth it.  It'll be a success even at 792p or whatever.

[NightScreams]

Absolutely. I didn't claim to represent the majority of PC gamers?each of my graphics cards cost more than an Xbox One?but my point is that 1600p is perfectly achievable with current hardware with just a single GPU and it won't be long until that's true for 4K. Certainly 4K will be quite common in three-four years time when we're half way through the current console cycle, if not sooner. Don't forget that 1080p was starting to take off when the X360 and PS3 launched with 720p support.

 

I agree that 4K was never on the table for this console generation but they should have at least been able to hit 1080p comfortably. Both Sony and Microsoft took shortcuts this generation, though Microsoft clearly took things too far - especially given the decision to bundle the Kinect and charge significantly more for the XB1 as a result.

 

 

 I disagree, I think 4k will be slow even once they can put out 55" for $1500, people will not respond to upgrade their already large flat screens without good support for the 4k resolution. So that leaves games out and now we would be down to just a few movies just like there is only a few 3D movies and games which didn't help the 3D movement. Even most peoples Cable TV subscriptions is not even 720p I also don't think the 48fps movies will go anywhere either, some claim they don't even like it.

So considering 4k will only benefit a few newer movies as they come out and no games or other subscriptions media services, I see it being every bit as slow as the move from 420p to HD that started in the 90's.

[gohpep]

http://youtu.be/AWJZzJH5Egk?t=7m23s

 

There are some differences that you can see in each picture, but I'm not going to call it in favor of either console. However, this video also shows how ridiculous it is to compare the graphics of both consoles, since you are going to see each frame for 1/60th of a second.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Titanfall: the Digital Foundry verdict

 

When we spoke to Respawn producer Drew McCoy at Gamescom last year, we were fully onboard with the "frame-rate is king" response when we asked about the possibility of 1080p60 on Xbox One. The key to the best Titanfall experience is all about the frame-rate - it's a crucial element of the interface between player and game and it's a core element in defining the gameplay. The end product is still a massive entertaining, highly playable piece of software, but on Xbox One at least, the performance level clearly isn't anywhere near locked to the magic 60fps, with Respawn sailing dangerously close on occasion to nerfing the the magic formula that makes this game great.

 

By and large, when you need the signature twitch-levels of response, Titanfall delivers, but it does so at a price - eye-rending screen-tear. That's a compromise that the erstwhile-Infinity Ward team members never implemented during their run on Modern Warfare and we were surprised to see it manifest so obviously here. As a result, the pure thoroughbred arcade experience that defined Call of Duty and is instrumental to Titanfall's success is left somewhat compromised, with a level of visual artefacting that frequently looks plain ugly.

 

To be clear though - while this is an easy win for the PC, any Titanfall purchase is still a good one. Respawn's focus on technology to facilitate fun as opposed to pushing back the frontiers of rendering has paid off, and while the Xbox One game has its issues, there's no doubt that the experience is enjoyable. However, from everything we know about the studio and what it sets out to achieve with its games, we can't help but feel that Xbox One under-delivers while the PC game is much closer to the experience the developers set out to create.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-next-gen-face-off

[McKay]

the only fps drop Ive seen in Titanfall was in a battle between 6 Titans, and 4 of them had deployed the Electrical smoke.

[trooper11]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-next-gen-face-off

Well that pretty much settles it.

Another disappointment.

[George P Global Moderator]

DF's "review" won't matter much, in the grand scheme of things the game will sell just fine and will be/is already a success.

[LaP]

After everything has been said and done to me one of the game i'm the most hyped about is drum roll

Hyper Light Drifter

Hyper Light Drifter Looks So Damn Good

[trooper11]

After everything has been said and done to me one of the game i'm the most hyped about is drum roll

Hyper Light Drifter

Hyper Light Drifter Looks So Damn Good

 

 

 

Yeah, I've kept my eye on that one.  I was surprised they didnt include an X1 release since its coming to so many other consoles, but maybe that will change. 

 

As it is, I'll either get it on the pc or ps4. 

[1337ish]

Yeah, I've kept my eye on that one. I was surprised they didnt include an X1 release since its coming to so many other consoles, but maybe that will change.

As it is, I'll either get it on the pc or ps4.

Hopefully the xbox one controller driver will be out for pc then. Its still the best controller out for me anyway. Esp love the feedback on the triggers, really helps in forza.

[JonnyLH]

Well that pretty much settles it.

Another disappointment.

You know what, on a decent TV i was genuinely surprised about how clean the IQ is. The dips aren't too distracting, I hate the screen tearing though. I've seen single digit dips but it seems more-so a bug in the code than struggling. 

 

According to Respawn they've still got a lot of optimization to-do under the hood around optimising CPU threads to run in parallel rather than after each other. They've also said that they're either going to up the resolution to 900p with FXAA or 1080p with no AA. Hopefully it gets better.

 

Welcome to the age of releasing un-finished games. 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

You know what, on a decent TV i was genuinely surprised about how clean the IQ is. The dips aren't too distracting, I hate the screen tearing though. I've seen single digit dips but it seems more-so a bug in the code than struggling. 

 

According to Respawn they've still got a lot of optimization to-do under the hood around optimising CPU threads to run in parallel rather than after each other. They've also said that they're either going to up the resolution to 900p with FXAA or 1080p with no AA. Hopefully it gets better.

 

Welcome to the age of releasing un-finished games. 

 

I'm pretty sure that started in 2005 :P

[trooper11]

You know what, on a decent TV i was genuinely surprised about how clean the IQ is. The dips aren't too distracting, I hate the screen tearing though. I've seen single digit dips but it seems more-so a bug in the code than struggling. 

 

According to Respawn they've still got a lot of optimization to-do under the hood around optimising CPU threads to run in parallel rather than after each other. They've also said that they're either going to up the resolution to 900p with FXAA or 1080p with no AA. Hopefully it gets better.

 

Welcome to the age of releasing un-finished games.

Really? Did they make a claim as to when such an update might happen? That is sort of a big deal.

[Hedon]

Well that pretty much settles it.

Another disappointment.

Here I thought I was having fun with TF on X1 without any issues. Glad DF showed me the light....I will go and return to my digital copy back to the Xbox Store for a full refund.

[JonnyLH]

Really? Did they make a claim as to when such an update might happen? That is sort of a big deal.

 

"We've been experimenting with making it higher and lower. One of the big tricks is how much ESRAM we're going to use, so we're thinking of not using hardware MSAA and instead using FXAA to make it so we don't have to have this larger render target," Baker told us.

"We're going to experiment. The target is either 1080p non-anti-aliased or 900p with FXAA. We're trying to optimise... we don't want to give up anything for higher res. So far we're not 100 per cent happy with any of the options, we're still working on it. For day one it's not going to change. We're still looking at it for post-day one. We're likely to increase resolution after we ship."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-ships-at-792p

 

Hope it does happen. There's a lot in that article around the technology used for Titanfall, it's a good read.

[BajiRav]

Really? Did they make a claim as to when such an update might happen? That is sort of a big deal.

Yes. Although they said they are exploring options, not that it might actually increase resolution.