PS4 and Xbox One resolution / frame rate discussion

[BajiRav]

Oh Shahid said it, I thought you meant an actual member here :rofl: My mistake, sorry. I only looked at the tweet you linked to yesterday.

 

I still don't agree it's a blanket statement. Clearly it's about as well thought out as some of the words that left Don's mouth last year, but his second tweet is certainly holding true and that is what is important at the end of the day. Are we going to forget everything that happens going forward and only hold MS to Adam Orth's ridiculous tweet and the comments Kaz made about the PS3 way back in the day too?

 

Results are what matters and if more games hit the 1080/60 "sweet spot" for console gamers, then they'll be happy. I'm sure Shahid knew back when he made those comments that not every launch PS4 game was 1080/60 on day 1 to begin with but he still posted them. I think that sums up how important it really is in context.

 

I already explained why I brought it up. My attempt at humor failed but yes, I will bring it up :p as long as we get "Imagine what would have happened with X1 DRM" threads every time XBL sneezes.

[Houtei]

its like the article i posted above says.  Resolution battle as far as consoles are concerned is a PR stunt and not much more.  A PR stunt that is working at that.  Sony is the one that needs good PR and they need it bad so you can bet they are singing about anything positive that the internet will cling too.

 

With the exception being those that have loads of cash to waste and have 60" televisions expensive monitors that they sit right next too.  I know a lot of people with game systems and i only know 3 that connected to tvs over 32" and one of those is me and im pretty sure we are a small minority of gamers.   Of course as is the nature of a tech site like this anyone on this site prolly has a large tv or high powered pc.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I already explained why I brought it up. My attempt at humor failed but yes, I will bring it up :p as long as we get "Imagine what would have happened with X1 DRM" threads every time XBL sneezes.

Ok well you have fun with your meta-forum game :p You won't be doing yourself any favours I imagine but if that's your MO so be it. What we should be focusing on are the games and hardware. To constantly bring up the past gets us nowhere and you'll only hear the same thing over and over on both sides.

 

its like the article i posted above says.  Resolution battle as far as consoles are concerned is a PR stunt and not much more.  A PR stunt that is working at that.  Sony is the one that needs good PR and they need it bad so you can bet they are singing about anything positive that the internet will cling too.

 

With the exception being those that have loads of cash to waste and have 60" televisions expensive monitors that they sit right next too.  I know a lot of people with game systems and i only know 3 that connected to tvs over 32" and one of those is me and im pretty sure we are a small minority of gamers.   Of course as is the nature of a tech site like this anyone on this site prolly has a large tv or high powered pc.

 

How on earth could Sony plan for a "PR stunt" that wasn't in their control to begin with? They weren't to know what the specs of the X1 were going to be until MS announced them in May. Sony were already 3 months ahead with their specs out in the open. Sony have their financial difficulties and whoever put that 1080 image up was certainly getting in on the act and trying to capatalise on the buzz, but they didn't manufacture the problem to blindsight their problems for "good PR". It would be pretty shortsighted to say that a small logo on PS.com is going to overshadow losing billions of ?$. The two are completely unrelated. The banker holding a gun to Sony's head probably doesn't even know what Watch_Dogs is or that the image appeared on the site.

 

"Resolutiongate" wasn't planned and it certainly wasn't thought up by either platform holder. For some it's simply more of an issue because generation gaps are usually met with higher performance yields and this time they didn't.

 

Either way this topic is starting to veer off track again, so please go back to commenting on the technical side of the discussion.

[BajiRav]

Ok well you have fun with your meta-forum game :p You won't be doing yourself any favours I imagine but if that's your MO so be it. What we should be focusing on are the games and hardware. To constantly bring up the past gets us nowhere and you'll only hear the same thing over and over on both sides.

 

I don't really have any MO  :unsure:, do I need one? I only brought it up in a thread especially made for resolution/fps and not in some random topic. We are just snowballing into nowhere so I will stop here.

[Houtei]

Ok well you have fun with your meta-forum game :p You won't be doing yourself any favours I imagine but if that's your MO so be it. What we should be focusing on are the games and hardware. To constantly bring up the past gets us nowhere and you'll only hear the same thing over and over on both sides.

 

 

How on earth could Sony plan for a "PR stunt" that wasn't in their control to begin with? They weren't to know what the specs of the X1 were going to be until MS announced them in May. Sony were already 3 months ahead with their specs out in the open. Sony have their financial difficulties and whoever put that 1080 image up was certainly getting in on the act and trying to capatalise on the buzz, but they didn't manufacture the problem to blindsight their problems for "good PR". It would be pretty shortsighted to say that a small logo on PS.com is going to overshadow losing billions of ?$. The two are completely unrelated. The banker holding a gun to Sony's head probably doesn't even know what Watch_Dogs is or that the image appeared on the site.

 

"Resolutiongate" wasn't planned and it certainly wasn't thought up by either platform holder. For some it's simply more of an issue because generation gaps are usually met with higher performance yields and this time they didn't.

 

Either way this topic is starting to veer off track again, so please go back to commenting on the technical side of the discussion.

Umm no one said it was planned.  Its just that sony is playing it up to everyone like its a BIG FREAKING deal and its not but a lot of people are buying into it.  Not sure how you spun what i said like that. It IS a pr stunt. Its not just about the small logo.  They are actively bringing up for discussion. If it was just the logo on the back of the box no one would even care about it.  And isnt this topic about resolution which is what we are discussing?  Its ok that they are doing it as everyone company does it but the point being that we are talking 1080p here vs 900p or even 792p upscaled and its just not that big.  If we were talking about ps4 doing 4k and xbox doing 900p then yes its a pretty big difference.

 

But it is a fact that Sony has the NEED to play up any and every positive thing about them.  Yeah ps4 is doing good but their gaming division STILL lost about 78million. http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/13q4/

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-13-the-witcher-3-may-run-better-on-ps4-than-xbox-one

[Polonium]

I like how some are in a sort of "damage control" mode, why bother? Sony has bigger issues than games not running at 1080p@60fps on the PS4.

Like? Or are we talking about their finances? Something that a gamer needn't be bothered with. If they went bust tomorrow (never gonna happen) they'd still have a ps4 on the market and it would still get developed for.

So.....who cares about that other than Sony employees?

[George P Global Moderator]

Like? Or are we talking about their finances? Something that a gamer needn't be bothered with. If they went bust tomorrow (never gonna happen) they'd still have a ps4 on the market and it would still get developed for.

So.....who cares about that other than Sony employees?

 

Wow, really?  Where in my post did I say gamers need to worry?  I said "Sony has to worry".   My god man.  Compared to some games on the PS4 not being the magic 1080p and 60fps their lack of profits is a bigger issue for them.  The whole point is that this is hardly a big of an issue as some gamers want to make it out to be.

[Polonium]

For gamers it is a big thing though...apparently. Not sure why myself.

Sorry I took your post out of context. Yes of course Sony have money issues but that should not affect developers* from getting the 1080/60 everyone so desires

*first party developers probably might suffer

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Umm no one said it was planned.  Its just that sony is playing it up to everyone like its a BIG FREAKING deal and its not but a lot of people are buying into it.  Not sure how you spun what i said like that. It IS a pr stunt. Its not just about the small logo.  They are actively bringing up for discussion. If it was just the logo on the back of the box no one would even care about it.  And isnt this topic about resolution which is what we are discussing?  Its ok that they are doing it as everyone company does it but the point being that we are talking 1080p here vs 900p or even 792p upscaled and its just not that big.  If we were talking about ps4 doing 4k and xbox doing 900p then yes its a pretty big difference.

 

But it is a fact that Sony has the NEED to play up any and every positive thing about them.  Yeah ps4 is doing good but their gaming division STILL lost about 78million. http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/13q4/

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-13-the-witcher-3-may-run-better-on-ps4-than-xbox-one

 

Right, so we agree it wasn't planned because Sony would have to have known the PS4 was higher spec'd before the X1 was announced in May. Obviously impossible.

 

The disparity online started as soon as the X1 was announced though and details about DDR3 vs 4 were known. That is not Sony's doing and they aren't playing anything up. It progressed as time went on when details about ESRAM were mentioned and finally it climaxed in November when details about launch games were performing differently on both consoles. This is not the definition of a PR stunt.

 

The Watch_Dogs image is certainly playing up to resolutiongate now but we're 6 months in and even this topic has started to drop off with the lack of releases. Is the watch dogs image on PS.com the biggest bullet point in the entire story that Sony can use for "playing it up"? Not at all, and afaik it's the first time they've made the announcement before a developer did, so I don't really see where you're coming from that they're now trying to use it to mask bad financial forecasts and results. Like I said, it's ridiculous to believe that something so small could even overshadow those types of problems in the first place.

 

The details on the back of the box were a talking point even when the 360 launched and the same story again when PS3 launched. Landmark AAA games like Halo, CoD, GT5 etc were all headliners when the info leaked the res was below 1080 or 720. It's a bigger issue now because people expected more from these consoles, not because someone is driving a hype train behind some imaginary pr stunt.

 

There is a very big difference between 720 and 1080, around 125%. 900 is around 44%, so we're not talking small numbers. If you can't tell the difference or your friend's can't then I guess that's good news for you. Lots of us can tell the difference though and why we're having the discussion / it's a big deal to us. Not because Sony said so or tried to distract us from their financials. We're more aware than most that they are in trouble. If they use the hardware to their advantage because they have a more powerful console, is that also considered a pr stunt, or should we ask to them to slow down to keep pace with the X1? Of course it's going to be a selling point. Not a PR stunt.

[dead.cell]

No hype on my part, what hyped it up was the original E3 video with the pretty graphics which we know aren't going to be the same on the consoles, closer on the PC though.  I have set expectations for it, first it's open world and it's from Ubisoft.  I think it's safe to say that if you've played the Assassins Creed games and like them, then this is around the same lines, or GTA with a twist etc.  I plan to get it because I know I'll at least get a solid 40hrs of gameplay from this, heck I spent close to 60hrs in AC4, and that for me makes it worth it as a game.

I'll look forward to your thoughts on Watch Dogs then. And yeah, I've heard good things about AC4 from friends of mine who weren't as happy with some of the previous games.

[trooper11]

Yes a Sony guy made some blanket statements to create some hype. He is not the first, nor will he be the last. Yes that can sometimes get you in trouble if someone takes your words to heart and then something happens to discredit that statement.

You guys can argue context all you want, but at the end of the day, this kind of reaction is expected. It happens to MS all the time.

Its not a big deal in the grand scheme of things unless people make it a big deal.

 

If they use the hardware to their advantage because they have a more powerful console, is that also considered a pr stunt, or should we ask to them to slow down to keep pace with the X1? Of course it's going to be a selling point. Not a PR stunt.

Might want to take a little deep breath there.

Starting to get into a messy territory. Just a friendly suggestion.

[trooper11]

Not sure how you can blame Sony ... They wouldn't have just come out and said that if they hadn't been told by ubisoft

You can blame Sony because they said it.

This isn't the first time a company made a statement that came back to bite them. If they got bad info from Ubisoft, then its on them to get on Ubisoft about it.

In the internet community, you can't get away with the excuse that its someone else's fault.

Its not a big deal though, just one of those pr hiccups that happens.

[Ironman273]

Arguing over consoles' native resolution is mostly PR, says The Witcher's studio
By Owen S. Good on May 17, 2014


 

The ongoing argument over native resolution ? 1080p versus 900 or some other lower figure ? is "more of a PR differentiation," said the co-founder of the studio making The Witcher 3.

 

Moreover, resolution differences between the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are "very important for Sony right now," marcin Iwinski of CD Projekt told Eurogamer, "and they are using it, obviously."

 

Iwinski said his studio is "definitely working to max out each of the platforms in terms of what we can get, because that's a crucial element of The Witcher." Yet "big differences" in the game between the two consoles are unlikely.
"It's too early to say. If there will be, they will be tiny," he said. "It will be more like people talking 'hey, I have this and you have that and this is better'."

 

CD Projekt is somewhat removed from the debate over console power, notably developing The Witcher primarily for PC. The first of the series was PC only and the second launched on Xbox 360. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt will launch on PlayStation 4, Windows PC and Xbox One.

 

"The final effect, whether it's 720p, 1080 ? we had the debate in the studio about it and actually asked our tech guys to explain how it works, and they sent me some complicated graphs that 'if I have this size of the screen, and I sit one meter or two meters from it, then I might be able to see the difference'." Iwinski told Eurogamer.

 

That said, next-gen consoles aren't totally irrelevant to the development of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. In March, CD Projekt Red said the increased power of next-gen consoles meant they could develop richer graphics for all platforms without worrying about the performance of one of them.

 

Source: Polygon

[LaP]

But whatever, I'm playing Child of Light and it's nothing much "graphically" but it's art style and gameplay are top notch, those two things can overshadow a lower res.

 

I'm almost sure Child of light is 1080p.

[McKay]

LaP, on 18 May 2014 - 02:44, said:

I'm almost sure Child of light is 1080p.

Child of light is 1440 downscaled to 1080 on PC, XB1 and PS4.

[LaP]

Child of light is 1440 downscaled to 1080 on PC, XB1 and PS4.

 

Doesn't matter the game is not lower res. It's better to downscale than upscale.

 

No matter what some people can say to me upscaling makes the image blurry.

 

But since consoles are using FXAA it's gonna be blurry anyway so it probably in the end doesn't make a difference because of the cheap and bad AA algo used in consoles games.

[McKay]

Doesn't matter the game is not lower res. It's better to downscale than upscale.

 

I'm not arguing I was confirming what you said because you only said you were "almost" sure, and I'd recently read the digital foundry article.

[LaP]

I'm not arguing I was confirming what you said because you only said you were "almost" sure, and I'd recently read the digital foundry article.

 

oh np.

[McKay]

But since consoles are using FXAA it's gonna be blurry anyway so it probably in the end doesn't make a difference because of the cheap and bad AA algo used in consoles games.

 

According to the article, the ps4 and xb1 are using MSAA, the last gen consoles are using an unidentified form of AA after being upscaled from 720 to 1080.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-child-of-light-face-off

[LaP]

According to the article, the ps4 and xb1 are using MSAA, the last gen consoles are using an unidentified form of AA after being upscaled from 720 to 1080.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-child-of-light-face-off

 

Really?

 

360 and ps3 are surely using fxaa since that's about the only thing they can use. Ports on PC often don't support anything but fxaa and you need to use nVidia inspector to enable a proper aa algo.

 

If ps4 and one start using msaa that would be awesome it means we will have msaa support on PC out of the box.

[McKay]

Really?

 

360 and ps3 are surely using fxaa since that's about the only thing they can use. Ports on PC often don't support anything but fxaa and you need to use nVidia inspector to enable a proper aa algo.

 

If ps4 and one start using msaa that would be awesome it means we will have msaa support on PC out of the box.

 

Well on games like this its easy to use MSAA, as its not exactly demanding. On demanding 3d ones I doubt msaa will be used. That article also confirms the PC uses the same MSAA as the xb1 and ps4, 1440 downscaled to 1080.

[LaP]

Well on games like this its easy to use MSAA, as its not exactly demanding. On demanding 3d ones I doubt msaa will be used. That article also confirms the PC uses the same MSAA as the xb1 and ps4, 1440 downscaled to 1080.

 

oh i thought you meant Watch Dog was going to use MSAA lol i was kind of surprised XD

 

Yeah games like Child of Light can use msaa without too much trouble. On pc i run Trine 2 with 4x ssaa XD. When i try to run Tomb Raider with 4x ssaa the game becomes a slide show here and there can only use 2x ssaa (which is still better than msaa imo in this game)

[George P Global Moderator]

I'm almost sure Child of light is 1080p.

 

That's not my point, no one looks at that type of, for lack of a better word, "arcade" game and says, is it 1080p@60fps?   It's not an issue, the game could be 900p and it wouldn't matter, I'd still enjoy it because of the gameplay and so on.

[Unrealistic]

I know this isn't completely on topic but I will say this: All of these topics have forced Microsoft to change their game.

Xbox One appears to be either slower or harder to squeeze performance from. Xbox Gold is (currently) less valuable than PSN+. Xbox One isn't selling as much as the PS4, either due to price or PR issues.

I welcome all of this. As a consumer, this is lighting a fire under Microsoft's ass and they are finally conceding. At the end of the day if Microsoft goes back to being second, this might actually be a benefit for people who have invested serious money into this platform.

[trooper11]

I welcome all of this. As a consumer, this is lighting a fire under Microsoft's ass and they are finally conceding. At the end of the day if Microsoft goes back to being second, this might actually be a benefit for people who have invested serious money into this platform.

Yeah, competition is what makes this market better over time. Consumers usually win in those cases.

MS can try to carve out a decent niche following. Maybe one more price drop is all that is needed.