PS4 and Xbox One resolution / frame rate discussion

[neo1911]

On a 60 hz monitor,

V-Sync 1 frame = 60 fps

V-Sync 2 frames = 30 fps

So why is it not possible to have V-Sync 1.5 frames = 45 fps?

[Elliot B.]

On a 60 hz monitor,

V-Sync 1 frame = 60 fps

V-Sync 2 frames = 30 fps

So why is it not possible to have V-Sync 1.5 frames = 45 fps?

As far as I'm aware, TFTs don't use Hz. Those were CRTs.

[watkinsx2]

As far as I'm aware, TFTs don't use Hz. Those were CRTs.

 

Yes - they do.

[neo1911]

As far as I'm aware, TFTs don't use Hz. Those were CRTs.

[Elliot B.]

Fine, it may be refresh rates I'm thinking of. Either way, I know they don't work the same way as CRTs.

[George P Global Moderator]

Sure we have to wait, but I think there's a trend that's already started and that's that more and more games on the XB1 are hitting 1080p as well now.  Can't say much about what the FPS is going to be so we'll have to wait on that, either way, expect lots of nitpicking to be going on in this thread as more games come out.

[vcfan]

Why only either 30fps or 60fps? Why is it hard to cap the game at 45fps to achieve the best compromise?

 

consoles output at 60hz, and 60 is not evenly divisible by 45, so that means 15 frames need to be duplicated,and in this case, this happens to be every third frame.

 

frame 1->frame2->frame3->frame3->frame 4->frame5->frame6->frame6->etc...

 

the duplicate frames produce little microfreezes visually,which is what we call judder. it looks like framedrops because the speed of which unique frames are displayed changes and causes this effect. this also hurts the feeling of consistency with the controls.

[Polonium]

Sure we have to wait, but I think there's a trend that's already started and that's that more and more games on the XB1 are hitting 1080p as well now. Can't say much about what the FPS is going to be so we'll have to wait on that, either way, expect lots of nitpicking to be going on in this thread as more games come out.

Yeah there is more doing it now but still lots that can't/won't. The hardware performance gap won't shrink.

[George P Global Moderator]

Yeah there is more doing it now but still lots that can't/won't. The hardware performance gap won't shrink.

 

The key is more new titles are doing it, I don't much care what past games that have already been out for months don't, what I see is that new games coming out are and that number is only going to keep growing the way I see it. 

[Polonium]

Yeah fingers crossed...but as I said, the power difference won't go away so while it may be 1080, frames could suffer, graphic effects could be toned down etc

Shame really as the Xbox one, coming from the 360 and original Xbox, should have been epic.

[George P Global Moderator]

Yeah fingers crossed...but as I said, the power difference won't go away so while it may be 1080, frames could suffer, graphic effects could be toned down etc

Shame really as the Xbox one, coming from the 360 and original Xbox, should have been epic.

 

They could but I don't think the differences will be dramatic going forward.  The end goal is fixed, I've said this before, 1080p and 60fps isn't something unreachable for even the XB1 hardware, once developers use it better and things get tweaked/updated driver and API wise.  When the goal posts aren't moved, like with the PC and going to even higher resolutions etc, then once both reach the goal, specially for multiplatform games, they'll be as close as we're already starting to see.    Some frames dropping on the XB1 while the PS4 has a more solid 60fps is fine, I mean really, does a few odd drops in something like D3 of ~8 frames or so max really effect your gameplay experience?  

[Polonium]

I personally think the differences will be far greater...

We'll see I guess.

[SnoopZ]

They could but I don't think the differences will be dramatic going forward.  The end goal is fixed, I've said this before, 1080p and 60fps isn't something unreachable for even the XB1 hardware, once developers use it better and things get tweaked/updated driver and API wise.  When the goal posts aren't moved, like with the PC and going to even higher resolutions etc, then once both reach the goal, specially for multiplatform games, they'll be as close as we're already starting to see.    Some frames dropping on the XB1 while the PS4 has a more solid 60fps is fine, I mean really, does a few odd drops in something like D3 of ~8 frames or so max really effect your gameplay experience?  

I couldn't agree more, but there are always going to be people like in the post above mine that will never be happy.

[BajiRav]

I personally think the differences will be far greater...

We'll see I guess.

I think the graphical differences will be minimal if at all. The extra compute power in PS4 will be likely used for other things such as physics and audio.

[Polonium]

The differences will be as they were last gen and people certainly thought they were big enough.

[spenser.d]

The differences will be as they were last gen and people certainly thought they were big enough.

No they didn't.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

The differences will be as they were last gen and people certainly thought they were big enough.

 

 

No they didn't.

 

Yes they did. Even to this day some games have never been patched to make the performance equal on both and gamers will (usually) recommend the 360 version. Many of the X1 launch games will probably never be updated either for the same reasons.

 

In fact, when games received PS3 ports, the benefits came down to 3 major points:

 

1: Uncompressed audio

2: 1 disc including the DLC

3: Free multiplayer

 

I'm not sure why some of you are trying to retcon history here. These very forums have all the conversations archived in the topics. Drag up any of the major releases like GTA IV, Mass Effect, Fallout / Oblivion / Skyrim etc and there is pages of discussion on performance.

 

Trying to sweep the story under the rug isn't helping anyone's cause. I know for a fact I took part in the same discussions and also many of the commentors here did. It's not a new story springing up only when the PS4 / X1 released.

[spenser.d]

Yes they did. Even to this day some games have never been patched to make the performance equal on both and gamers will (usually) recommend the 360 version. Many of the X1 launch games will probably never be updated either for the same reasons.

In fact, when games received PS3 ports, the benefits came down to 3 major points:

1: Uncompressed audio

2: 1 disc including the DLC

3: Free multiplayer

I'm not sure why some of you are trying to retcon history here. These very forums have all the conversations archived in the topics. Drag up any of the major releases like GTA IV, Mass Effect, Fallout / Oblivion / Skyrim etc and there is pages of discussion on performance.

Trying to sweep the story under the rug isn't helping anyone's cause. I know for a fact I took part in the same discussions and also many of the commentors here did. It's not a new story springing up only when the PS4 / X1 released.

The differences are minimal to anyone but hardcore gamers. That both consoles sold the same amount of hardware is a testament to that. To pretend that the differences were major is to continue all this nonsense for no particularly good reason. The pages of discussion were as ridiculous then as they are now, the only sad part being that gamers clearly haven't learned to grow up and get past petty differences.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

The differences are minimal to anyone but hardcore gamers. That both consoles sold the same amount of hardware is a testament to that. To pretend that the differences were major is to continue all this nonsense for no particularly good reason.

 

How are the differences minimal when some games had months and months of delays to release DLC because of the issues (re: Bethesda games). To the point I may add where it was up in the air if they'd ever get the DLC at all. And when they eventually did, the performance was so terrible you'd lose progress and experience constant crashes.

 

Console sales aren't the trend to look at. Sales of the games are, and they never sold better on PS3 (that goes for all of the examples I mentioned and many more).

 

PS3 caught up in sales because MS dropped the ball in other areas and Sony's own strong first party lineup.

[123456789A]

How many bits are the graphics on the Xbox One and PS4?

 

The Sega Genesis had high definition 16 bits graphics. I was just curious how many bits we have now.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

How are the differences minimal when some games had months and months of delays to release DLC because of the issues (re: Bethesda games). To the point I may add where it was up in the air if they'd ever get the DLC at all. And when they eventually did, the performance was so terrible you'd lose progress and experience constant crashes.

 

Console sales aren't the trend to look at. Sales of the games are, and they never sold better on PS3 (that goes for all of the examples I mentioned and many more).

 

PS3 caught up in sales because MS dropped the ball in other areas and Sony's own strong first party lineup.

 

MS abandoned the 360 a bit too early IMO, Sony tend to finish strong when a console comes to its deathbed and bringing out The Last of Us was a home run (God of War 2 was the PS2 big bang). That and getting the pricing and OS sorted out definitely helped. The launch PS3 was probably one of the biggest disasters in gaming history. *that web based store.... shudder* *that price* *lack of trophies* *just... everything*

 

PS2 fans like myself wanted to love it so much coming off of such a godly console, many of us were blinded to just how bad a disaster the PS3 was at launch. I guess you could say the same for some 360 -> XB1 owners. But MS are certainly moving faster than Sony ever did to correct things.

 

Even if topics like this only cater to the hardcore, some of said hardcore are multiplatform owners without enough bias to just go with what performs better, so they want to know. I've always said if you want an unbiased approach, look to DirtyLarry. Andy hasn't been bad in recent times mind you :p

 

And yeah there were a metric ton load of arguments on Neowin over performance on the PS3/360, I took part in many.... regrettably (my approach was wrong, nothing wrong with discussion itself). So to try and say now such discussions are new to the table is to sweep history under the rug.

[trooper11]

Even if topics like this only cater to the hardcore, some of said hardcore are multiplatform owners without enough bias to just go with what performs better, so they want to know. I've always said if you want an unbiased approach, look to DirtyLarry. Andy hasn't been bad in recent times mind you :p

Amen to that. I have been a multiplatform owner for many generations (snes/genesis, n64/ps1, ps2/xbox, wii/360/ps3, x1/ps4) , so being able to get the right information about these games is a huge deal. How else can I choose? Once I know which performs better, the only remaining thought is what my friends will be playing on. That can trump performance as long as we are not talking broken performance. Thankfully, there are people around here that will just share the facts so we can be informed.

 

And yeah there were a metric ton load of arguments on Neowin over performance on the PS3/360, I took part in many.... regrettably (my approach was wrong, nothing wrong with discussion itself). So to try and say now such discussions are new to the table is to sweep history under the rug.

It goes WAAAAY back before last gen. The snes/genesis days were what sparked the 'bit wars'. It was of course started by the companies themselves as a marketing point, but it sparked arguments over and over about which console was better, etc, etc. Of course without the internet to blow it up, it probably seemed like a much quieter time, but I remember the talk among my friends and at school. Which version of Doom was better? Genesis or SNES? That was actually a big topic at the time.

I would love to see the arguments end and just a focus on sharing info about upcoming releases, but that seems nearly impossible.

[GotBored]

Updated Summary of resolutions and fps from http://au.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

 

PS4:

1080p - 44/47 Games  (93.6%)

60fps -  32/47 Games (68.1%)

 

1080p&60fps - 31/47 Games (66%)

 

Xbox One:

1080p - 22/42 Games (52.4%)

60fps - 22/42 Games (52.4%)

 

1080p&60fps - 12/42 Games (28.6%)

[Skiver Veteran]

Updated Summary of resolutions and fps from http://au.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

 

PS4:

1080p - 44/47 Games  (93.6%)

60fps -  32/47 Games (68.1%)

 

1080p&60fps - 31/47 Games (66%)

 

Xbox One:

1080p - 22/42 Games (52.4%)

60fps - 22/42 Games (52.4%)

 

1080p&60fps - 12/42 Games (28.6%)

 

I would be quite interested to see a historical view on those stats, for example are the games that are being released now hitting the 1080, 60fps more often? A quick scan down that list seems to show Xbox seems to be a lot closer at matching multi-platform games then it used to be. 

[GotBored]

I would be quite interested to see a historical view on those stats, for example are the games that are being released now hitting the 1080, 60fps more often? A quick scan down that list seems to show Xbox seems to be a lot closer at matching multi-platform games then it used to be. 

 

For 1080p Xbox One has gone from 46.6% to 52.4% since my first summary.

60fps has gone from 46.1% to 52..4% also, both 1080p & 60fps was 23.1% and now is 28.6%.

 

I only made one other summary so that is all the historical data. :)