PS4 and Xbox One resolution / frame rate discussion

[GotBored]

Unless you've tried Diablo on both systems then you can't really say that.  The people that have combed through both versions are the ones that seem to have come to the verdict that it's nothing that the average person would notice.

 

And acting like a EVERYTHING IS A RACE AND I MUST WIN IT just comes off as being a pompous jerk when people should be using the cars for fun.

 

Look, no one is denying that the PS4 is the Ferrari here.  They have made a great console this time around but going into every thread arguing over these minute details that no one is really noticing is what elevates it to what can be construed as bickering.  There's a reason people say Ferrari and BMW drivers are jerks and it's pretty close to things like this.  Don't be that guy.

 

Diablo 3 was going to be 900p for the Xbox One because the game developers didn't want to sacrifice smooth gameplay for resolution, but Microsoft basically forced them to release it at 1080p because the PS4 version was releasing at 1080p.

 

http://o.canada.com/technology/gaming/microsoft-needs-to-stop-chasing-the-1080p-carrot

 

..though many Xbox One versions of multiplatform games have been released with sub-1080p resolutions, Microsoft insisted Blizzard get Diablo III?s resolution up from 900. After getting some additional code and help from Microsoft they succeeded, but at a cost.

Diablo 3?s framerate is no longer locked at 60FPS. Blizzard said they initially lowered the resolution to 900p in order to make the game run more smoothly. But that?s not possible at 1080p.

 

It is kind of hard to try a game which hasn't been released yet but the developers saying that it doesn't run smooth at 1080p and they were forced to put it at that resolution even though they wanted to leave it at 900p tells you a fair bit.

 

It?s also a fight that Microsoft can?t win, especially if it means lowering the framerate of certain games to hit 1080p. If Microsoft doesn?t like having a less powerful console than Sony well, better luck with that next generation. Don?t make developers and gamers pay for that mistake.

[vcfan]

GotBored, did you not read my post above? DF had to scan hours of footage to find these rare drops that they describe as imperceptible, and when it happened, it didn't matter how heavy the gameplay was on the screen either. The PS4 also sometimes chugs in areas when new areas load and when the game autosaves. That's probably worse visually than those tiny frame drops.

[GotBored]

GotBored, did you not read my post above? DF had to scan hours of footage to find these rare drops that they describe as imperceptible, and when it happened, it didn't matter how heavy the gameplay was on the screen either. The PS4 also sometimes chugs in areas when new areas load and when the game autosaves. That's probably worse visually than those tiny frame drops.

 

Yes, I did read the article.

 

After all, we've seen performance drops on Microsoft's platform since its bump from 900p to 1080p.

In terms of frame-rate metrics, the Xbox One does show flickers of strain in meeting its recent 1080p upgrade - something never elicited by the PS4, which holds at 60fps in likewise tests. These drops, as infrequent as they are, make it harder to call the Xbox One release a purely locked 60fps experience in pragmatic terms, but it's clearly a solid performer. So much so, that it begs the question: could the PS4 release have been pushed any harder to take advantage of its own GPU headroom?

 

..has the touted Xbox One's resolution boost changed anything in performance testing? With both running at a full 1080p, we see a clear margin when running the New Tristram Gates, during the Skeleton King boss fight, and during packed skirmishes on the South Highlands plains. It reaches as low as 52fps on Xbox One, ...Sony's hardware never drops a frame in these areas.

 

But yes they did have to scan hours of footage to find moments where the Xbox One struggled with the load, they weren't able to do that with the PS4 version though.

[George P Global Moderator]

Others have answered for me quite nicely but it seems some others still want to split hairs on this.   The differences are minor, fps dropping as low as 52fps, omg stop the presses, that's a game stopping problem right there!   *sigh*   Ironman273 is right, it seems you just want to bicker about this now, regardless I never said the two are exactly the same, I never said the XB1 version is just as good as the PS4 version but let's not let that get in your way of making this an argument when it doesn't have to be one at all.

 

The fact of the matter is, as the article you love quoting says, the drops are very rare, the PS4 version also has it's own little hicops but I don't see anyone making a big deal out of that, I mean hell, what's a little lag when the game autosaves, which it probably does way more often than the times the XB1 version will drop frames to, omg, 52!    Because 8 frames less for a second is so bad I just can't keep playing this game now. 

 

It really feels like as more and more of these multiplatform games come out and more and more of them are the same res on both systems that the need to latch on to any difference, even as minute as they may be, is going to happen now.  How about you guys enjoy the game on whatever your system of choice and move on?   This D3 argument/debate/store is over with, the tests have been done and the differences between the two versions are so minor that no one is missing out on anything if they got this on the XB1 IMO.  Now some might want to think otherwise, might be some deep seeded pride of some sort at play, but whatever, I don't even own any of the two systems and am happy gaming on my PC for now.

[-T- Member]

It loses up to 8 barely perceivable FPS very rarely!!!?? Might as well sell my xbox now

[BajiRav]

So we should excuse the fact that the Xbox One version suffers fps jutter and has lower graphics fidelity because the judder is not frequent and only occurs when a lot of things are happening on the screen while the PS4 version runs solid at all times?

 

I'm not getting the reasoning here, should we just dismiss the fact that games run better on PS4 because Microsoft wanted developers to go for 1080p at the expense of smooth gameplay just so they aren't seen as the 720p/900p console while their competitor (PS4) was easily achieving 1080p with smooth gameplay?

 

Your not even arguing facts now, you basically saying yes its true PS4 runs games better but that doesn't matter cause you won't notice it all the time just when your in heavy gameplay...

 

But their competitor did not easily achieve 1080p, it had the most performance issues in first test when XB1 was 900p. Then both got fixed and are 1080p/60fps with some very rare 52fps instance that they said were difficult to locate in the test footage.

So both consoles are running as well as the PC version at 1080p/60fps - what else do we want?

 

And because we like to take exec quotes at face value, Microsoft did not force them to get to 1080p. They helped them instead. You guys had problem with XB1 because it ran Ryse at 900p and now you have problem with Diablo because it is running at 1080p instead of 900p?  

 

Would you kindly make up your mind?

[GotBored]

But their competitor did not easily achieve 1080p, it had the most performance issues in first test when XB1 was 900p. Then both got fixed and are 1080p/60fps with some very rare 52fps instance that they said were difficult to locate in the test footage.

So both consoles are running as well as the PC version at 1080p/60fps - what else do we want?

 

And because we like to take exec quotes at face value, Microsoft did not force them to get to 1080p. They helped them instead. You guys had problem with XB1 because it ran Ryse at 900p and now you have problem with Diablo because it is running at 1080p instead of 900p?  

 

Would you kindly make up your mind?

 

It had a few minor issues due to the release having bugs which was easily corrected with a patch. If it were suffering performance issues the developer would have opted to release it at 900p like the Xbox One. (Which was later changed due to pressure from Microsoft)

 

The articles that were posted earlier say Diablo 3 developers (Blizzard) said Microsoft forced them to release at 1080p but yes Microsoft did help them achieve that. If you have information which disagrees with this your welcome to post sources.

 

I never had an issue with Ryse's resolution being too low, I do have an issue though with Microsoft trying to mark up numbers at the expense of performance just so they look like they are in the same performance range as the PS4. Because in my personal opinion that is just putting up smoke and mirrors to the clear fact that the PS4's hardware is better, I'd prefer console makers to be aware that performance of a system is important and that they focus on that point for the next generation rather than figuring out that the general public isn't smart enough to realize the difference in performance and therefore don't really care so much..

[BajiRav]

It had a few minor issues due to the release having bugs which was easily corrected with a patch. If it were suffering performance issues the developer would have opted to release it at 900p like the Xbox One. (Which was later changed due to pressure from Microsoft)

 

The articles that were posted earlier say Diablo 3 developers (Blizzard) said Microsoft forced them to release at 1080p but yes Microsoft did help them achieve that. If you have information which disagrees with this your welcome to post sources.

 

I never had an issue with Ryse's resolution being too low, I do have an issue though with Microsoft trying to mark up numbers at the expense of performance just so they look like they are in the same performance range as the PS4. Because in my personal opinion that is just putting up smoke and mirrors to the clear fact that the PS4's hardware is better, I'd prefer console makers to be aware that performance of a system is important and that they focus on that point for the next generation rather than figuring out that the general public isn't smart enough to realize the difference in performance and therefore don't really care so much..

 

Unless somebody want to split hairs, here it is

 

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It's been discussed and speculated that IGN probably misquoted what Blizzard said or Blizzard over dramatized the situation with "unacceptable".

[GotBored]

It's been discussed and speculated that IGN probably misquoted what Blizzard said or Blizzard over dramatized the situation with "unacceptable".

 

If it were misquoted why didn't blizzard come out and correct it themselves?

If they did that, then it would be clear and a non-issue, Phil Spencer saying its not true just means his doing his job nothing more.

[BajiRav]

If it were misquoted why didn't blizzard come out and correct it themselves?

If they did that, then it would be clear and a non-issue, Phil Spencer saying its not true just means his doing his job nothing more.

 

As far as I know the game has gained over 40% pixels and is dropping frames in extremely rare cases. I am not going to claim Phil Spencer is lying because I am taking his tweet at face value.

 

If you want to split hairs over it, you are welcome to do so. I don't like wearing tin-foil hats all day long.

[GotBored]

As far as I know the game has gained over 40% pixels and is dropping frames in extremely rare cases. I am not going to claim Phil Spencer is lying because I am taking his tweet at face value.

If you want to split hairs over it, you are welcome to do so. I don't like wearing tin-foil hats all day long.

Tin-foil hats? Your not really using that underhanded insult correctly but I'll let you have it. If not believing a Microsoft rep on face value makes me paranoid then so be it.

Xbox One always online DRM won't be removed, kinect won't be removed and is an integral part of the system, Microsoft didn't pay for positive reviews on YouTube, Phil spencer saying pixels don't matter than 'suggests' to blizzard that they increase diablo 3's pixels before release, etc, etc.

Hmmm...

[Showan]

Tin-foil hats? Your not really using that underhanded insult correctly but I'll let you have it. If not believing a Microsoft rep on face value makes me paranoid then so be it.

Xbox One always online DRM won't be removed, kinect won't be removed and is an integral part of the system, Microsoft didn't pay for positive reviews on YouTube, Phil spencer saying pixels don't matter than 'suggests' to blizzard that they increase diablo 3's pixels before release, etc, etc.

Hmmm...

 

 

I give you that... MS hasn't always told the truth... Well Sony hasn't always told the truth either... Even Nintendo hasn't always told the truth.

 

Unless people have both consoles, there is no way they are going to know about the 900p vs 1080p diff.  And who in they're right mind are going to buy 2 versions of a game just to count pixels?

 

Even if Diablo III stayed at 900p on the One.  Or Ryse 900p on the One, or all games from here on out were only 900p.  I would gladly take that 900p, with good framerates, and EVERYTHING else the One has to offer outside of gaming.  Because I will not base my $500 purchase on 1080p alone.  

 

Same goes with my PS4.  Sure that graphics bump is good, but that alone isn't the reason I invested $400 for it.

 

Once you spend $400+ for a console, it has to be about more than native 1080p alone.

[taim]

Will any of these Xone Diablo 3 optimisations make it to the Windows version? 

[George P Global Moderator]

Will any of these Xone Diablo 3 optimisations make it to the Windows version? 

 

Maybe?  It depends how specific to the x86/GPU in question they are because the PC version has to support a more general and broader range of setups, hard to say.    If it's simple cpu side stuff then I'd say odds are good but the GPU on the XB1 has it's own custom nature that isn't found on PC GPUs, so then it gets tricky.   If we're also talking simple API/DX11 type stuff then odds are good as well, because that's, I'd say, 90% the same between XB1 and Windows.

[Emn1ty]

I never had an issue with Ryse's resolution being too low, I do have an issue though with Microsoft trying to mark up numbers at the expense of performance just so they look like they are in the same performance range as the PS4. Because in my personal opinion that is just putting up smoke and mirrors to the clear fact that the PS4's hardware is better, I'd prefer console makers to be aware that performance of a system is important and that they focus on that point for the next generation rather than figuring out that the general public isn't smart enough to realize the difference in performance and therefore don't really care so much.

 

So regardless of them achieving it... it's still fake, "smoke and mirrors"? It's a ploy by Microsoft? As you yourself said you don't care if it's 900p or 1080p. All you care about is ensuring that the X1 is in its proper place. Below the PS4.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The Xbox One will not eclipse the PS4, hardware is hardware, but if it can make the jump to 1080p on a regular basis and differences end up like between 360/PS3 there isn't much to complain about. It can be tough to accept a role reversal of multiplatform titles from last generation if you were used to always getting the superior title technically, but it's not the end of the world, 1st party always produce the best results.

 

The only things that are really disasters are things like Ground Zeros running at 720p, or even Plants Versus Zombies, it should really be 1080p. But as time goes on it will get better.

 

Just don't try and argue the differences aren't there, they are, deal with it.

[trooper11]

The Xbox One will not eclipse the PS4, hardware is hardware, but if it can make the jump to 1080p on a regular basis and differences end up like between 360/PS3 there isn't much to complain about. It can be tough to accept a role reversal of multiplatform titles from last generation if you were used to always getting the superior title technically, but it's not the end of the world, 1st party always produce the best results.

Its much easier for those that were on the Sony side of it last gen. They get to revel in having superior multiplatform titles as the MS side gets to listen to the constant reminder of how inferior they are. Its the usual cycle that few seem willing to break. One side will gloat and resist any opportunity to 'lay off' while the other will hold up any examples that buck the trend in order to overcome the perception. Multiplatform owners get to continue to shake their heads at the whole thing.

This Diablo business is a perfect example of that fight. Last gen these people would be in different places, defending different sides of the conversation. Today, MS is the big loser, so any attempt to downplay that will be met harshly.

The X1 has a weaker gpu than the ps4, get over it. Also, there will likely be X1 and ps4 games that perform similar if not exactly the same going forward. Get over that as well. See, the ps4 gpu could, in theory, run games at a higher than 1080p resolution, but that is not likely to ever be tapped, developers will target 1080p/60. If the X1 can achieve 1080p/60 then you will see more game parity even though the ps4 is capable of more.

For me personally, its all a bunch of crap, but that isn't a new feeling. Its been crap for almost 10 years. Silly arguments that do little but make gaming seem far too serious a pastime.

[George P Global Moderator]

No one's even arguing about there not being differences only, in the case of D3, that the minor and very rare frame drops to 52 (it's not even that low for starters) are so minor that no ones missing out by having the XB1 version over the PS4.  Now that's what some can't seem to deal with, in your words. 

[trooper11]

No one's even arguing about there not being differences only, in the case of D3, that the minor and very rare frame drops to 52 (it's not even that low for starters) are so minor that no ones missing out by having the XB1 version over the PS4.  Now that's what some can't seem to deal with, in your words.

The problem is that when you try and make an 'excuse' such as the differences being minor, you are seen as trying to 'defend' the X1. Your credibility is questioned at that point.

Its all part of the long tradition of the console wars.

If both versions were identical, then its clear.

[BajiRav]

The X1 has a weaker gpu than the ps4, get over it. Also, there will likely be X1 and ps4 games that perform similar if not exactly the same going forward. Get over that as well. See, the ps4 gpu could, in theory, run games at a higher than 1080p resolution, but that is not likely to ever be tapped, developers will target 1080p/60. If the X1 can achieve 1080p/60 then you will see more game parity even though the ps4 is capable of more.

There is no point in rendering higher resolutions with PS4. The most common resolution for TVs is 1080p. I would guess the people who use TVs are like 99% of its audience agains those with monitors. It is unlikely that developers will cater to a tiny minority who are using monitors with higher resolutions. If some crazy developer decides to support 4K, PS4 won't be able to handle it at the same IQ.

So higher resolution is not happening, more effects/processing however might happen. I keep hearing people say that developers are not going to waste there time to optimize games to use XBO's special memory setup so by the same logic they might not spend any time on PS4 beyond achieving 1080p/60fps at their target IQ.

 

You will see hardware optimizations in first party games. There is Forza Horizon2 and Drive Club, both exclusives with stellar graphics. H2 is almost here and I guess DC is launching very shortly after that.

[Vigilant]

Been on Neowin for a long time, bt have one thing worth saying.

Get what works best for you. Seriously.

I've owned a PS4, sold it for an Xbox One because no one I knew was playing PS4. After having a few varied issues considering PS4 again, but the reasons are my own.

I can list for you the reasons why I'm tempted to go back, but they have little to do with frame rate, or resolution.

The reasons for me are this:

- Xbox One interface is horrible.

- Xbox game store is horribly slow. Xbox Live works really really well, but it takes way way way longer to download a game then on the Playstation Store

- The Kinect is horrible, and the snapping interface is basically worthless without it

- The snap items are unreliable at best. Audio gets out of sync regularly with video. Entire system locks up for long periods of time. It's frustrating.

- Remote Play from Playstation is very very compelling. The idea of having my PS4 setup to stream to 2 or 3 Playstation TV's in my house is actually incredibly compelling.

- The Dual Shock 4 is just more comfortable and isn't as creaky as the Xbox One controller.

The point is all of this stuff is subjective. I'm by far not hardcore. Destiny Beta looked fantastic at whatever resolution it was running at (not it wasn't 1080P). But the reasons to get one over the other are truly vast enough that the resolution doesn't really matter.

For all my complaints about the Xbox One here are the reasons I will probably keep it around.

- It's an appliance. Truly is, it just plays games. Don't trust Kinect, or it's horrible interface enough to do anything else in my house

- Sunset Overdrive

- Forza Horizon 2

- Halo Series

- Fable

- Friends play it

Playstation 4 advantages

- Driveclub

- Destiny (exclusive content for 1 year)

- Remote Play

- Games that noticeably look better

All of this stuff is truly subjective. Figure out what works and what doesn't. The Xbox One is quite literally the perfect example of why you should treat these devices like appliances. Because they really do suck at everything from Netflix, to it's UI, to the Kinect. But it's purpose is to play games, and theres a ton of games. Theres a ton of active gaming community to enjoy.

The graphical differences that I can tell you for a fact exist, and are noticeable don't change the actual gameplay. When I treat the Xbox One as a strict gaming device, and don't try to snap things I actually enjoy my time more.

Choose what works.

[trooper11]

Get what works best for you. Seriously.

You step into a thread dedicated to the discussion of framerate and resolution in order to explain why your getting a ps4 and all of the short comings to the X1 when you could have said the line above and nothing else. I guess you were trying to say its not a big deal that the X1 is a poorer system hardware wise, since its other flaws far outweigh that and are the real reason you may or may not buy the system. Fair enough.

Basically, you run in, drop a bomb, and run out :laugh:

Look, there is nothing wrong with having a thread dedicated to the facts about the graphics of individual games. Actually, its awesome to have such a thread. The facts are not the problem. The problem is when people cannot accept those facts when they support or refute their agenda. So really, its more about calming everyone that posts in this thread. Reminding everyone that this is a knowledge sharing thread, not a debate thread.

But it's purpose is to play games, and theres a ton of games. Theres a ton of active gaming community to enjoy.

Is it? Plenty of people around here would argue that it does not have a ton of games, a lackluster community, and that its purpose is in fact not to play games.

[spenser.d]

Is it?

Yes.

[Vigilant]

You step into a thread dedicated to the discussion of framerate and resolution in order to explain why your getting a ps4 and all of the short comings to the X1 when you could have said the line above and nothing else. I guess you were trying to say its not a big deal that the X1 is a poorer system hardware wise, since its other flaws far outweigh that and are the real reason you may or may not buy the system. Fair enough.

Basically, you run in, drop a bomb, and run out :laugh:

Look, there is nothing wrong with having a thread dedicated to the facts about the graphics of individual games. Actually, its awesome to have such a thread. The facts are not the problem. The problem is when people cannot accept those facts when they support or refute their agenda. So really, its more about calming everyone that posts in this thread. Reminding everyone that this is a knowledge sharing thread, not a debate thread.

Is it? Plenty of people around here would argue that it does not have a ton of games, a lackluster community, and that its purpose is in fact not to play games.

I'd encourage you to reread my post.

Dropping a bomb wasn't the intention.

I'd go as far as to say we are saying the same thing.

Different perspectives.

If judging things was purely and exclusively on resolution and frame rate would cause everyone to continue to upgrade their PCs annually. It's an interesting time we are in.

:-)

I think we've debated before in other forums trooper11 glad to see you again.

[Vigilant]

Ya know that's perspective. The ability for a gaming community could arguably be a regional issue.

The ps4 has sold 10,000,000 units and undisclosed Xb1's. But it's perspective.

My wife would probably hurt me if I told her to use the horribly limited an inferior TV streaming options.

Terrible streaming options not compared to PS4, but compared to other options.

It's all easier when you treat it like an appliance.