Yusuf M. Veteran Posted February 25, 2014 Veteran Share Posted February 25, 2014 The major point being made is that we use a keyboard and mouse because that's what we've been using, hence why it's called legacy. I feel that I'm at my most productive with a keyboard, mouse, and a monitor but that's because it's what I know. A touchpad or Wacom tablet could very well be more precise but it's not what I'm used to. I think that the sooner other people admit this, then the sooner we can have real conversations about advancing technology. I really disliked all the negative feedback about Windows 8 because rather than highlighting everything that was actually poorly implemented, a town mob with pitchforks started calling for the destruction of the Start Menu. It's more than just what we know or what we're used to. There are tasks that are better suited to using a keyboard and mouse. Likewise, there are tasks that are better suited to using touch input. I can name many examples but I'm sure you can imagine some common ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Touch screens are not useful in a lot of work places, however there is specific jobs/careers where they are. As said the whole idea of holding your arms up to touch the screen is absurd, then there is the idea of having a touch device on the desk, which is just as useful as a KB/mouse. Touch screens are fine for smaller devices, but smaller devices are not good for many tasks, ever try to use a spreadsheet with a lot of data in it on your phone/tablet. Not fun. I struggle to use a lot of things on my laptop let alone a smaller screen. KB/mouse will not be replaced by voice commands, think about it. A whole office full of people talking to their computers. lol good chuckle. The mind control would replace the KB/mouse but not in the near future. We had 500 ipads rolled out across our network, only 28 of them were checking in to our mgmt software. We have ran an audit of the rest of them, most were sitting in cupboards because they were not useful for peoples needs. I know that the interfaces would need to change to facilitate touch but it will make people less productive. I hate it when people say that PC's are going away. PC's aren't going away, sales are down because people are keeping their PC's longer and home uses are using tablets which is what they are designed for. Interfaces may be archaic but input methods are fine. You're assuming work habits will stay the same, though. That we'll always need to double click to open stuff, drag files around, click around spreadsheets, etc. I really feel that our operating systems will pick up some of this slack in the future, much like files are now being maintained by the apps they run in, rather than people. Microsoft has been pushing new features that change the way we work since XP. It's not impossible that they'll continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohpep Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm glad my dad only gave me desktops :) I always tweaked them, looked at the parts, installed new RAM, etc. And now I'm on Neowin. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bag Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Although I suspect the desktop market may shrink in the future, I don't really think its under much threat of ceasing altogether. Tablets/phones and similar devices are great for consuming content, i use my phone to reddit, read the web and play games all the time. But for creating content, they just don't really cut it. Touch is great for simple stuff, but when you need precise control and the ability to use complex interfaces keyboard+mouse is in a different league. Keyboards are significantly faster to type on and much more ergonomic, when your programming or writing anything of a significant length KB is always going to be the way to go, especially in offices where productively is more important than at home. The mouse i can see as more under threat, although i personally prefer mice, trackpads are a viable alternative & I know plenty that prefer them - full on touch screens though (at least in the sitting at a desk environment) don't really hold up as well IMO. I think the PC form factor itself (although maybe a bit legacy) also has economics on it side, sure laptops *could* replace desktops, but for a similar spec the price is liable to be significantly more, so unless portability is a need, there's no real way to justify that extra cost. Desktops simply deliver more bang for buck, since due to their size, its to get components that will fit them - granted maybe that will eventually change. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGHammer Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I have no intention of abandoning them myself, but I could easily see the keyboard and mouse going away if the replacement was actually good enough. So far, they aren't. And therein lies the crux of the argument. It's not the not good enough, but the "so far". There have been certain absolutists that are thinking that touch will never be good enough. However, despite my loathing (subjective) for certain sorts of touch usages (I get the point made earlier about tactile feedback), I can't say "ever", as there have been way too many cases where something supposedly "impossible" was accomplished - and that is merely since the introduction of Windows 95, and just in computing alone. Thinking otherwise makes you look like a Canutist, and I seriously hope you have a dory (lifeboat) handy somewhere. Keep a clear head - don't let emotion trump common sense OR logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bag Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 <snip> To be fair, the "keyboard" concept has effectually been around since 1860 (with the invention of type writers & probably before that too), so i suspect it will take a pretty major change in how people interact with computers to even attempt unseat it. ?Mouse I'm less sure about, since i think the track-pad already offers a viable alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 The keyboard will always be around in some form. You can't operate a computer without them. If anything they'll evolve to become some sort of control panel, with options displayed on it - a la LCARS on Star Trek. Not sure why people are insisting that it is part of the mouse. They're two separate devices. You can operate a computer without a mouse present. gohpep 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachno 1D Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yes but if one takes the concept of how you manage your house inventory into a3D virtual world.So say you would ,open a draw pull out a paper select to read or modify the document which in reality would need no keyboard interaction with either voice or thought inout,then refile it for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Scrip Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 ?Mouse I'm less sure about, since i think the track-pad already offers a viable alternative. Mouse, trackpad, or even a trackball do essentially the same thing... they move the pointer. It's just a personal preference of which one you like better. If you stopped using a mouse and started using a trackpad instead... not much has really changed. The big jump happens when you stop using pointer-based navigation altogether. Something like direct manipulation with a touchscreen. psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 The big jump happens when you stop using pointer-based navigation altogether. Something like direct manipulation with a touchscreen. That's what the article is hinting at. Pointer based navigation at this point is largely a legacy method at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hello, The keyboard will never die, but the mouse - I wouldn't be so sure. Take a look at it, it dates back to the early 80's, and it precursors date back to the late 1940s. It is a device that was created for earlier generations of computing, and is quickly becoming cumbersome to use, as users are working with large quantities of data. Your multimonitor work station is held back by the fact that your cursor can only be in one spot at any given time. As a plotter, it works great, but working with data, it quickly becomes cumbersome. Just put it this way, I'm away for this weekend, and I haven't once used use a mouse while doing my work. Then why does it still exist +- 74 years later? No they probably won't. But why should they be the only way to get work done?Never said that. Just said those two will never die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Scrip Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's what the article is hinting at. Pointer based navigation at this point is largely a legacy method at this point. But like someone said earlier... it may be legacy... but that doesn't make it irrelevant. There are, and will be, many situations where good ol' pointer-based navigation is preferred or necessary. Also... there are at least two definitions of the word "legacy" in this context. One is "something from the past" and the other is "something that is obsolete" I will agree that pointer-based navigation is something from the past... but it is far from obsolete. I hope you weren't suggesting that pointer-based navigation is "largely obsolete" with your previous quote. Maybe by 2025 that will be true... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The wheel is round for a reason. There is such thing as a best method, and just because a method is old, doesn't mean it should be changed. Until we have ways to "telepathically" control a PC, the input methods we use today will remain relatively unchanged. Michael Scrip and psmoked 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domboy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The mouse and keyboard aren't bound together. You *can* run a physical keyboard without a mouse. I use that setup on my Surface daily. Not sure if you include a trackpad when you say mouse, but I somewhat agree with your statement. I've found that with my Surface RT the touch screen doesn't replace the keyboard and trackpad, but compliments it. So I have a third input method instead of just two. But on the actual subject of the artcle, for me what I see fading away is laptops more so than desktops. Actually it's happened already for me. I've mostly replaced my 10 year old laptop with a Surface+type keyboard which is basically a netbook to me. My wife sold her laptop and bought a Nexus 7. And we finally have smart-phones. But the desktop is the go-to device for stuff the mobile stuff can't do due to their form factor. A mobile device that can be docked and turn into a desktop sounds like a great idea, but I still think I will want a permanent computing device that remains at home that I can remote into and depend on for data storage etc. Plus when it comes to games, the desktop still hasn't been replaced by either consoles or mobile devices. At least not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted February 25, 2014 Veteran Share Posted February 25, 2014 oh cant do multimonitor workstation with tablets. and I havent found a tablet that can keep up with my multitasking. Yes you can. You haven't found the right tablet for you. Microsoft Surface Pro. You can use the mini display port to add a external monitor and use the surface as a monitor (dual monitor setup) or you can purchase a mini display port adapter and a usb3 to dvi to add a second large monitor, add in the dock for simple install and removal and you are set. Not sure how you are multitasking, but the tablet can be used pretty heavily. You will be waiting a while for any of the 8gb versions though, they have been on back order since they came out. We just got a 8GB with a 512GB ssd....one out of the 4 we ordered in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted February 25, 2014 MVC Share Posted February 25, 2014 They are going to have to pry the desktop from my cold dead hands! psmoked and MFH 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Remember when BTX was going to completely replace ATX cases 10 years ago? Yeah, that totally happened. I know it isn't exactly related to the OP, but that is what came to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Not sure if you include a trackpad when you say mouse, but I somewhat agree with your statement. I've found that with my Surface RT the touch screen doesn't replace the keyboard and trackpad, but compliments it. So I have a third input method instead of just two. But on the actual subject of the artcle, for me what I see fading away is laptops more so than desktops. Actually it's happened already for me. I've mostly replaced my 10 year old laptop with a Surface+type keyboard which is basically a netbook to me. My wife sold her laptop and bought a Nexus 7. And we finally have smart-phones. But the desktop is the go-to device for stuff the mobile stuff can't do due to their form factor. A mobile device that can be docked and turn into a desktop sounds like a great idea, but I still think I will want a permanent computing device that remains at home that I can remote into and depend on for data storage etc. Plus when it comes to games, the desktop still hasn't been replaced by either consoles or mobile devices. At least not for me. Agreed. My 4 year old Win 7 laptop has collected dust since buying my Surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightScreams Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 It's more than just what we know or what we're used to. There are tasks that are better suited to using a keyboard and mouse. Likewise, there are tasks that are better suited to using touch input. I can name many examples but I'm sure you can imagine some common ones. We probably shouldn't be assuming anything looking into the future of how tasks will be better suited. Current tasks might be better for m/kb but we don't know exactly what tasks the future even holds let alone if a more efficient/superior technology can emerge to do current tasks. Ideally atm, me speaking out loud to say go to neowin forum and viewing it's contents on any viewable device in my home sound a lot more efficient than me grabbing my laptop and rummaging through bookmarks as the technology does exist to make such a reality. It would even be very arrogant to say that the internet,TV and games will always be like they are today. It's at least certainly changed immensely since the turn of the millenium. Dot Matrix 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachno 1D Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Forums may be no longer text based but either video clip based or just live chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted February 25, 2014 Veteran Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's what the article is hinting at. Pointer based navigation at this point is largely a legacy method at this point. That means nothing more than that you wish or think it will disappear. Being "legacy" is not an objective attribute of anything. Lord Method Man, Luc2k, psmoked and 3 others 6 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted February 25, 2014 Veteran Share Posted February 25, 2014 don't tell anyone...a finger is a pointer...shhh, it might offend dot. You launch an app by touching it vs moving your mouse to it and clicking...it is a pointer however way you want to slice it. One of the original pointers in windows was a pointing finger....remember this icon? Why was it made into a pointing hand vs always being the arrow icon on the left? what does the hand signify? Perhaps that is what the programmers wished they could do at the time with their finger...tap the icon to launch it without using a device like a mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted February 25, 2014 Veteran Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm tired of seeing that word thrown around like it's some intrinsic property of things. In Microsoft lingo, all "legacy" means is that they currently don't intend to evolve the technology. They've called C++ "legacy code" for 10 years, now they call it "modern" because they've started evolving it again. XNA is currently "legacy", if they ever make a new version it'll be "modern" again. Microsoft is still supporting and evolving their mouse and keyboard environment (the Desktop). It's not "legacy" by their own lingo. A more interesting definition is the one offered by the Free Dictionary: (Computer Science) (modifier) surviving computer systems, hardware, or software: legacy network; legacy application. By that definition, any currently surviving technology is legacy; the only thing that's not legacy is the stuff that's not even out yet! Raa, psmoked, Yusuf M. and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted February 25, 2014 Veteran Share Posted February 25, 2014 A pointer will become "legacy" when voice control fully takes over. How is that voice recognition coming along?...my bluetooth system in my 2010 car can't distinguish 50% of the time between "wife" and "quit" or "phone number" and "status". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGHammer Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 We probably shouldn't be assuming anything looking into the future of how tasks will be better suited. Current tasks might be better for m/kb but we don't know exactly what tasks the future even holds let alone if a more efficient/superior technology can emerge to do current tasks. Ideally atm, me speaking out loud to say go to neowin forum and viewing it's contents on any viewable device in my home sound a lot more efficient than me grabbing my laptop and rummaging through bookmarks as the technology does exist to make such a reality. It would even be very arrogant to say that the internet,TV and games will always be like they are today. It's at least certainly changed immensely since the turn of the millenium. Exactly. Despite my personal animus toward touch usage, I am assuming nothing, as I'd much rather EAT egg than wear it, thank you. Being an absolutist - and especially concerning techlogical improvements - is merely a guarantee that you WILL be - at some point - one hundred percent wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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