Neowin's NHL Discussion Thread

[CatnipOligarchy]

Yep! I'm pretty good at picking the surprise teams... I picked the Canes in 2002, Lightning last year, and Atlanta this year (no joke on all three!)... Only thing is I thought that the Blue Jackets were going to be a bit better, too :laugh:

notice all those teams coming from the southeast division. northern fans may not like it, but we need quality teams on the ice down here to get fans in the seats. carolina has fallen off the face of the earth, but tampa and atlanta is becoming a good little rivalry, and thats what its gonna take.

as for the blue jackets - they'd be fighting for a division title if they could play all their games at home. they've got to start winning on the road if they are ever to become competitive.

If not I fear they'll need to trade him and that would only hurt hockey in Atlanta.

The Thrashers will do everything they can to make sure Heatley and Kovalchuk both stay in Atlanta for years to come. They are the ticket to success, and everyone knows it. Heatley may not need to come back this season. they are doing well right now, and if he came back and became a distraction, it could become a problem. I think lots of time, practice, and therapy will eventually make him somewhere close to the player he was, which is still pretty darn good.

[BMac]

notice all those teams coming from the southeast division. northern fans may not like it, but we need quality teams on the ice down here to get fans in the seats. carolina has fallen off the face of the earth, but tampa and atlanta is becoming a good little rivalry, and thats what its gonna take.

as for the blue jackets - they'd be fighting for a division title if they could play all their games at home. they've got to start winning on the road if they are ever to become competitive.

The Thrashers will do everything they can to make sure Heatley and Kovalchuk both stay in Atlanta for years to come. They are the ticket to success, and everyone knows it. Heatley may not need to come back this season. they are doing well right now, and if he came back and became a distraction, it could become a problem. I think lots of time, practice, and therapy will eventually make him somewhere close to the player he was, which is still pretty darn good.

The Jackets are led by one man. Rick Nash. He's incredible and my brother actually use to play with him.

As for Heatley, you can't do anything about the possibility the team will be bitter with him. If they are someones got to go and it'll be Heatley before the entire team. As for his rehabilitation, Heatley has skated and from highlights I've seen still needs work but is likely to be back for a playoff run. It was a light skate but still it was good to see him on skates.

Finally here comes my rant. I am ****ed at the rule that the top team of each division gets a top three seed. That is bull. The southeastern division blows and don't deserve that luxury. If you want to change it to ensure they get a playoff spot fine but not home ice advantage. It's a joke of a rule and it ****es me off. You would rather be a 6th seed to play that team rather than be 4th and play Toronto, Ottawa or Jersey. Something needs to be done about this. It's crap. Well that's my rant I'm open to a debate.

[CatnipOligarchy]

Finally here comes my rant. I am ****ed at the rule that the top team of each division gets a top three seed. That is bull. The southeastern division blows and don't deserve that luxury. If you want to change it to ensure they get a playoff spot fine but not home ice advantage. It's a joke of a rule and it ****es me off. You would rather be a 6th seed to play that team rather than be 4th and play Toronto, Ottawa or Jersey. Something needs to be done about this. It's crap. Well that's my rant I'm open to a debate.

well as a fan of a southeast division team, i definitely appreciate this rule, but as a hockey fan, i see where you are coming from. i do think the division winner deserves home ice. I would be fine with letting the division winner be guaranteed a top 4 spot, and then the top wild card can move up to 2nd or 3rd

if they have a higher point total than one or two other division leaders. if it was done like that this year it would be

east

1Toronto

2Philly

3New Jersey

4Atlanta

5Ottawa

6Islanders

7Habs

8Boston

west

1Detroit

2Vancouver

3St.Louis

4San Jose

5Calgary

6Colorado

7LA

8Dallas

those matchups seem a little more fair, im a little partial, i just think a division winner deserves home ice

[BMac]

No not at all. Atlanta can be guaranteed 8th but thats it. With those standings why would it matter for you anyways. You could kiss your ass goodbye in 4 verse Ottawa.

[CatnipOligarchy]

yeah weve already lost to ottawa 3 times this year, and the games have been very 1 sided. i would much rather play the islanders. if you dont guarantee the division winner some sort of home ice, then what good is a division? why not just have 2 conferences and let the top 8 teams in? in every sport, division winners get favorable seeding. divisions create rivalries too. i dont think it's going to change

[BMac]

yeah weve already lost to ottawa 3 times this year, and the games have been very 1 sided. i would much rather play the islanders. if you dont guarantee the division winner some sort of home ice, then what good is a division? why not just have 2 conferences and let the top 8 teams in? in every sport, division winners get favorable seeding. divisions create rivalries too. i dont think it's going to change

I understand the division rivalry stuff that's great but as for favourable seeding, that never happened in the NHL until a few years ago. If you want some favouritism I'll give you 8th that's it. Expansion is ruining this game with all these new liberal rules to make it easier for the **** teams whose fans don't care. Go back to the old way where you had to earn home ice. You don't like it then get out of my league.

[CatnipOligarchy]

i think were gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. i see where youre coming from but the nhl is doing everything it can to give these newer teams a chance to win, this is how its going to be now

[BMac]

Wouldn't an easier solution to not do divisions by location and even them out? That way there would be no reason for such a dumb rule.

[Billthy]

the wings are gonna make it pretty fare as long as they stay way from below-sub 500% teams. They have so much trouble with them! They will always beat the best teams and the teams on a hot streak but when it comes to Nashville they cant beat them at all!

[CatnipOligarchy]

Wouldn't an easier solution to not do divisions by location and even them out? That way there would be no reason for such a dumb rule.

that leads to insane travel schedules and makes it hard for fans back home to watch the games because of really early or really late gametimes. see: atlanta braves in NL West from 1969-1993

[BMac]

that leads to insane travel schedules and makes it hard for fans back home to watch the games because of really early or really late gametimes. see: atlanta braves in NL West from 1969-1993

Why you play every team anyways? You could still rig the schedule for their to be less divisional matchups but more locational. It could work, the Leafs use to be in the West and it worked.

@ Billthy the Wings will just buy the best player at the trade deadline anyways so none of this really matters for them.

[CatnipOligarchy]

Why you play every team anyways? You could still rig the schedule for their to be less divisional matchups but more locational. It could work, the Leafs use to be in the West and it worked.

yeah you play every team but only teams from the other conference once maybe twice. all those west coast swings would really get old. i dont like waiting until 9PM for the games to come on. i'll watch them anyways, but i would rather them come on at 630. cross continent rivalries arent so fun either, makes it harder to travel to the opposition's home to cheer your team on

[Billthy]

the Wings will just buy the best player at the trade deadline anyways so none of this really matters for them.

ya, the leafs would do the same thing, and maybe they will never know whats gonna happen to the the players. i think the wings once that clinch a spot they are gonna be resting yzerman, shanahan, hull and i think lidenstrom too for the playoffs so they will be nice and fresh and ready to win another cub! :rolleyes:

[BMac]

ya, the leafs would do the same thing, and maybe they will never know whats gonna happen to the the players. i think the wings once that clinch a spot they are gonna be resting yzerman, shanahan, hull and i think lidenstrom too for the playoffs so they will be nice and fresh and ready to win another cub! :rolleyes:

And a cub is all they'll be winning because the cups not going to Detroit this year. There's too much goalie controversy there. It'll blow up in their face soon enough.

As for Catnip I'm telling you a few years back the Leafs were in the west and everything worked out fine. They didn't have an extroadinary amount of games out west. I was younger and I still remember watching the majority of the games. It can work it's been done before. If this doesn't happen then we need to slash a few teams.

[Billthy]

no way, they will have it sorted out by then and if they dont they will go in with 3 goalies

gonna be the wings and philly again in the stanley

[BMac]

no way, they will have it sorted out by then and if they dont they will go in with 3 goalies

gonna be the wings and philly again in the stanley

You're dreaming. They'll have to drop one so they can carry an extra player incase of injury. Guess what Hasek's not going nor Legace so guess whose left. That's right say night night Cujo. As for you and philly. :no: Philly needs a proven goalie to go deep and Hackett won't cut it. Detroit is going to the conference final and will be in a shootout (not like penalty shots but high scoring) with Colorado. As long as Aebicher keeps up his play I see the Av's in the finals. I could also see Vancouver in the finals as well. In the east I predict the Devils (again) or as an outside shot Ottawa or the Leafs.

[Billthy]

i agree with philly but i think they have a damn good chance of making it this year. hasek though i dont like him that much legace is an awesome goalie to back him up and even to play in a big game. but i think when the games are on the line detroit picks it up(the whole team) but i guess were gonna have to find out when it happens.

[BMac]

i agree with philly but i think they have a damn good chance of making it this year. hasek though i dont like him that much legace is an awesome goalie to back him up and even to play in a big game. but i think when the games are on the line detroit picks it up(the whole team) but i guess were gonna have to find out when it happens.

And for me that's the joy of hockey season. May and June is the best time of the year because that's playoff time. :D

[Ayepecks]

notice all those teams coming from the southeast division. northern fans may not like it, but we need quality teams on the ice down here to get fans in the seats. carolina has fallen off the face of the earth, but tampa and atlanta is becoming a good little rivalry, and thats what its gonna take.

True, but it seems that everytime a team starts to get good (from the Southeast) that they just drop and stop playing. Look at what's happened: Florida, Washington, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Atlanta. That's the order of the teams that have been in first place since a few years ago (I believe, I didn't check... Carolina may not have won it, the just went far in the playoffs, I believe)... Florida won it, then Washington, then Carolina, then Tampa, and now Atlanta. It seems like they're taking turns before they start to crap out. :laugh:

[Ayepecks]

I never doubted his talent I said it's impossible to fill Yzerman's leadership shoes.? How bout last year in the playoffs Yzerman played on what was dubbed (never confirmed) broken leg.? That takes a certain type of talent that we have not seen from Zetterberg.? He was hurt and took his time to get better.? That's good no doubt but come playoff time Stevie never lets his team down.? There has never been a player like him on the wings since Howe.? I appreciate the fact that Lidstrom speaks highly of him but I don't think he meant it in the way your thinking.? He meant it as in production, offensively and hopefully defensively, not in the leadership way.? Yzerman is one in a million in terms of leadership.? Lidstrom should not throw Zetterberg in Stevie's shadow.? Look what it did to a man named Daigle.? Zetterberg's a great talent but lets not count chickens before the eggs hatch.

Yzerman's leg wasn't broke, it's just bad. He's lost the cartiledge (spelling?) in his legs, so of course they're going to hurt. He pulled or tore something at that time, too, I'm almost positive it wasn't broken last year. It was before that, though. His legs have always been a complication for him.

Zetterberg's injury was a groin injury, which Yzerman has had and didn't played when he had. It's hardly comparable, especially considering where they both are in their careers. And, yes, Lidstrom did mean it in the way I'm talking. Both him and Hull have said that he's going to be the next leader on the team.

No not at all.? Atlanta can be guaranteed 8th but thats it.? With those standings why would it matter for you anyways.? You could kiss your ass goodbye in 4 verse Ottawa.

Ottawa's had a horrible year. They've choked before the playoffs this tiEDIT:

EDIT:

@ Billthy the Wings will just buy the best player at the trade deadline anyways so none of this really matters for them.

The Wings do not "buy" players. Unlike the Avalanche and Dallas Stars, they draft a good amount of their playeramazingamazing scouting team. The Red Wings have gotten the likes of Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Martain LaPointe, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and a plethora of others from the draft.

Not to mention that the Red Wings never get a high first round draft pick, so they always end up trading their first rounders away. Talk about making things happen with rookies! The Red Wings haven't had decent draft positions since the 80's. People tend to forget that the Red Wings absolutely sucked after the 40's (and up to the 80's). Sorry, but the Wings built up this new dynasty. Players come to Detroit to finish out their careers, for the most part. Want to win a cup late in your career? Then normally players come to Detroit. If you interviewed most free agents, they'll tell you that they came to the Red Wings, not that the Red Wings came to them.

Edited January 2, 2004 by Scorpio

[bayrider]

The Wings do not "buy" players. Unlike the Avalanche and Dallas Stars, they draft a good amount of their players

hmm well, Colorado did buy Selanne (Kariya tagged along for free).. who else have they bought since they traded for Roy?? Even then, Roy would have been picked up by ANY team even if he was the highest payed goalie.

Sakic (been playing since the Avs were in Quebec)

Alex Tanguay (Draft)

Hilan Hejduk (Draft)

Forsberg (taded for Lindros as a Draft Pick)

Adam Foot (same as Sakic)

[Ayepecks]

That's hardly even considerably good scouting:

Sakic: 15th Pick, 1st Round

Tanguay: 12th Pick, 1st Round

Hejduk: 87th, 4th Round

Forsberg: 6th, 1st Round

Foote: 22nd, 1st Round

My, what "l33t" drafting skills. :rolleyes:

[Ayepecks]

Oh yeah, by comparison:

Zetterberg: 210th, 7th Round

Datsyuk: 171st, 6th Round

Holmstrom: 257th, 10th

Konstantinov: 221st, 11th

Kocur (Joe): 88th, 5th

Fedorov: 74th, 4th

Lidstrom: 53rd, 3rd Round

Kozlov: 45th, 3rd Round

Osgood: 54th, 3rd Round

Yzerman was drafted in the 1st round, so I didn't list him. So that's 9 decent to amazing picks after the second round, compared to 1.

[BMac]

Ok here we go.

Lets start with the easy one. Ottawa has sucked thus far but you don't honestly believe they would lose to Atlanta in the playoffs. I hate Ottawa but I know better than that.

Yzerman has sat out with a groin injury when it didn't matter. The wings were always on top and he could afford to sit. Zetterberg was out during a time of chaos with goalie controversy and tons of losses. They could have used your "leader".

Who have the Wings bought. Let me see, where to start. Hull, Hatcher, Hasek then when he left Cujo. Schineder, basically Shanahan (that was a trade but all they gave Hartford was cash and crap) and Robataille. I think that's a fair list if I must say so. Next, I never said they didn't draft wll but where are half of those guys?

Konstantinov: lets not go there (very sad I must say)

Kocur: Boston (I believe)

Fedorov: Anahiem

Kozlov:Florida

Osgood: St. Louis

I think Detroit would be a better team now and in a few years if they cared more about them rather than their oldies pickups like Hull.

Now lets address Colarado. Since the deal for Roy, they bought Fluery (didn't turn out really quite a shame), Morris, Konowalchuk, Blake was a bit before Roy I believe but him too. You said Selanne and Kariya which were huge additions. I admit this list is not as long as the Wings but you get my point.

Well this post is long enough. I'm done.

[Ayepecks]

Ottawa is known to choke in the playoffs. They had a decent run last year, but in the end they ended up losing. Normally they choke much quicker than that, but I'll give them last year. I think Atlanta could easily beat them in the playoffs.

Zetterberg left when they started winning with Joseph, so it was hardly a time of chaos. He also pulled his groin, so it would have been extremely hard for him to play. Yzerman has sat out with the same injury before. And here's the kicker: Yzerman sat out at the same time as Zetterberg (this year, the time we're talking about) with the same injury! :laugh: They sure could have used Yzerman as a leader, huh? ;)

Hull wants to end his career in Detroit, so he was hardly bought. He came to Detroit and is playing for very little money. Hardly what you would consider "buying" a player as. Hatcher, yes, they "bought". They went after a free agent that would improve their team, what a crime! Hasek demanded a trade when he was in Buffalo and jumped at the shot for both Detroit and St. Louis, among other teams. Hasek was hardly bought. He then asked for his contract to be restructed, which the Red Wings obliged. If you're going for a Stanley Cup, why not? CuJo was bought, yes, again to improve the team. Though, personally, I've never liked CuJo as a goalie and would have rather Legace been promoted to starter. Schinder was traded for, and the Red Wings gave up quite a bit for him, so that's hardly being "bought". It was a good trade and their payroll stayed practically the same. Robatallie played for hardly any money and he wanted to end his career. Unfortunately, he wasn't playing well and wanted to end his career on a high note, so he went back to LA. Hardly a fair list, and an inaccurate list at that.

What's your point? And, nice try to research it, but Kozlov is with Atlanta, not Florida. Viktor Kozlov is a completely different Kozlov. Kocur is retired now and served as an assistant to the Red Wings. I would think that you'd know he was one of the "Bash Brothers", as most hockey fans know. Then again, you've never lived in Detroit, so maybe you just watched your team in hockey :)

If you knew much, you'd know that Detroit did NOT want Konstantinov to get paralyzed, obviously, didn't want Kocur to retire, didn't want Fedorov to leave for Anahiem (they tried signing him instead of Hatcher, but Fedorov wanted a leadership role, and Yzerman is the current "leader" in the Red Wings as you've stated: that's hardly a secret), tried to keep Kozlov, but they had to trade someone to Buffalo for Hasek. Osgood they got rid of because, A) he wanted to leave and not be a backup again, B) they had obtained a good goalie, C) they did not want a goalie controversy as they currently have.

Detroit keeps most of their players and care for most of their players. I find it funny that an Avalanche fan is telling me this when the Avalanche sent some of their best young players away in recent trades (like to get Rob Blake, and when they traded Drury).

The Red Wings also have some of the top prospects in all of hockey. The Red Wings are known for having an amazing draft. Colorado is not.

Just so you know: my post is not to cause an arguement, it's to have a debate, and I have no ill will against you or anything :)