Neowin's NHL Discussion Thread

[Ayepecks]

Actually, money was the second thing on Fedorov's list, it was involved. Thing is the Red Wings met his demands, he just wanted a leadership role (meaning that Yzerman would be gone, which Illitch would not do... Yzerman was a free agent, too, over the sumer).

:laugh: Bitter about Osgood? No, sorry... As Lroling said, Osgood isn't one of the best players in the game. Yes, he is a good goalie (at least, I think so), but to say he's one of the best is a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion. As I've said, the Red Wings had an amazing offense that year, so it wasn't hard for him to win 60 games. No one could touch the Wings that year, no offense to the other teams. Yes, he has been strong, he's a good goalie. But not one of the best, in my opinion :)

As I've said, I know I'm biased. I also know that Colorado is a good at drafting, I'm merely stating they're not known for it. No one goes up to the Avalanche and asks them for scouting pointers as they do with the other teams. The reason for this is that most of their star players everyone is looking at come from the first round. Are they a bad drafting team? Nope. I've already said that they're good, but they're not known for it, in my opinion. Yes, I'm biased, but that's jut my opinion.

[BMac]

Actually, money was the second thing on Fedorov's list, it was involved. Thing is the Red Wings met his demands, he just wanted a leadership role (meaning that Yzerman would be gone, which Illitch would not do... Yzerman was a free agent, too, over the sumer).

:laugh: Bitter about Osgood? No, sorry... As Lroling said, Osgood isn't one of the best players in the game. Yes, he is a good goalie (at least, I think so), but to say he's one of the best is a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion. As I've said, the Red Wings had an amazing offense that year, so it wasn't hard for him to win 60 games. No one could touch the Wings that year, no offense to the other teams. Yes, he has been strong, he's a good goalie. But not one of the best, in my opinion :)

As I've said, I know I'm biased. I also know that Colorado is a good at drafting, I'm merely stating they're not known for it. No one goes up to the Avalanche and asks them for scouting pointers as they do with the other teams. The reason for this is that most of their star players everyone is looking at come from the first round. Are they a bad drafting team? Nope. I've already said that they're good, but they're not known for it, in my opinion. Yes, I'm biased, but that's jut my opinion.

It they met in then it wasn't important. Leave this point alone. Yzerman was never the problem imo. Anyways it's just an opinion take it for what you want.

Osgood is amazing. I'm sick of everyone just listening to the media. He is proving it and still gets no respect. Damn what does he have to do win a cup? Oh wait he already did that. Honestly, I'm tired of people ragging him. He has incredible stats and still no one cares. I feel for Ozzie.

First of all no NHL team goes to another and asks for pointers. You're living in a fantasy world. Secondly, they are regarded as being known for drafting. Your ignorance sickens me on this topic. (no offense)

[Ayepecks]

I'm not listening to the media at all... If I listened to the media I'd be jumping bandwagons all season long ;) Osgood is a good goalie. He's not an amazing goalie, though. Mike Vernon won a Stanley Cup, but where's his respect? Winning a Cup doesn't give you respect. Winning a Cup is just winning a cup: if there's a bad player on a team, then winning the cup doesn't make him good. That's not to say he's bad, he's good. But being good and winning a Cup doesn't make you amazing. I feel for Ozzie, too: the media portrays him as merely decent. I think he's good... Not amazing, though.

No NHL team goes to another to ask for pointers? Sorry, but they do. Coaches commonly talk to each other, ask for certain pointers and such. Why would you think it's any different for scouts? Scouts commonly talk. Of course they're not going to give away their best kept secrets, but they do talk. You're only kidding yourself if you think they don't talk to each other. I know a lot about this topic, you just may not agree with me on it.

[BMac]

I'm not listening to the media at all... If I listened to the media I'd be jumping bandwagons all season long ;) Osgood is a good goalie. He's not an amazing goalie, though. Mike Vernon won a Stanley Cup, but where's his respect? Winning a Cup doesn't give you respect. Winning a Cup is just winning a cup: if there's a bad player on a team, then winning the cup doesn't make him good. That's not to say he's bad, he's good. But being good and winning a Cup doesn't make you amazing. I feel for Ozzie, too: the media portrays him as merely decent. I think he's good... Not amazing, though.

No NHL team goes to another to ask for pointers? Sorry, but they do. Coaches commonly talk to each other, ask for certain pointers and such. Why would you think it's any different for scouts? Scouts commonly talk. Of course they're not going to give away their best kept secrets, but they do talk. You're only kidding yourself if you think they don't talk to each other. I know a lot about this topic, you just may not agree with me on it.

Ok well I got enough out you on Ozzie. We'll just agree to disagree.

As for the scout thing, of course they talk but they don't say hey man out of the players left who should I take. No way. That would be ludacris. And by the way I know a lot about the draft too. I wait for it every year and watch the whole 3 or 4 hour coverage.

[Ayepecks]

Oh no, I don't mean that they ask for the players they should take. I mean they just give others a few pointers and tips on what to look for and the like, not where to look or who to look at. The exception to this would be a major player (most likely whoever is drafted with the first few picks), such as Heatley when he was scouted. Yeah, I watch the coverage every year, too. I remember a few years back when Darryl Kyle's death was announced on it (my family are huge Cardinals fans).

[BMac]

Oh no, I don't mean that they ask for the players they should take. I mean they just give others a few pointers and tips on what to look for and the like, not where to look or who to look at. The exception to this would be a major player (most likely whoever is drafted with the first few picks), such as Heatley when he was scouted. Yeah, I watch the coverage every year, too. I remember a few years back when Darryl Kyle's death was announced on it (my family are huge Cardinals fans).

Oh ok I just miss understood then. Ya I remember that when Kyle died. I was shocked.

[CatnipOligarchy]

Scorpio you obviously know nothing about the Thrashers or the Sens. It would be a blow out. Go throw that comment in your message board and watch the flamage.

i would love to defend the thrashers here, but they have been defeated solidly by the sens 3 times already this year, and i was at one of those games, it was brutal. atlanta has played some of the other top teams tough- detroit, toronto, new jersey- but they have had no luck at all with the sens... and im not so sure this team is ready to win in the playoffs. they are very streaky. the playoffs will have to hit at just the right time for them to do any damage.

[Coolme]

A quick question Who would you trade for JAMIE MCLENNAN? Scoring forward is preferred (No goalies)

Jamie's stats http://www.nhl.com/lineups/player/8458562.html

Season Team GP MIN W L T GA SO Avg

1997-1998 Blues 30 1,658 16 8 2 60 2 2.17 <--Best record

NHL Totals 215 11,888 70 95 31 518 12 2.61

[LRoling]

@ LRoling:

If you'd mind stating any of these so-called "facts" that you speak of, then perhaps I will believe you. But, you along with I, am biased towards your team. Not to mention that the two teams each of us favors seperately are perhaps the biggest rivals in the entire NHL. I am "so biased" towards the Red Wings because I'm a fan. You are "so biased" towards the Avs because you are a fan; can't change that. Obviously neither of us are going to see eye-to-eye on both matters, so all I can post are the facts that I know for sure and my opinions mingled in.

That said, Fedorov was hardly "ridden out of Detroit". Fedorov was offered a 5 year contract at (at least) $10 million a year; maybe it's just me, but that's hardly being "ridden out" of Detroit. Fedorov wanted to be the top line center at all times, have more playing time, and to be the leader of this team. That would mean getting rid of Yzerman, something that Mike Illitch, the owner of the Detroit Red Wings, simply would not do. I don't blame him. Yzerman is a sports icon in Detroit and Fedorov can't change that even if he surpasses Wayne Gretzkey on the all-time points list (which won't happen this far into his career). Zetterberg's emergence had absolutely nothing to do with it, I hope you can understand this. Every year there's an "emergence" on the Red Wings. Last year, Zetterberg. Year before, Datsyuk. Year before that, Fischer. Even before that it was Martin LaPointe. Before him, Darren McCarty. This year it was going to be Hudler but things didn't go according to plan. Detroit eases its rookies in with a mix of playing time and good lines. Fedorov was not getting "put on defense" because the Red Wings "blew ass", as you call it. He was put on defense (as a defenseman) because he's played defenseman before in the Russia. Fedorov has played all the positions with the exception of goaltender, so why not put him at all positions? If you're referring to him having to play more defense than a regular center, that's because he's an extremely talented two-way player. One of the best in the game, in my opinion. I also believe you're mixing up your years because it was Bowman who put Fedorov on denfense and he was not the coach last year. And, the Red Wings "blew ass"? That's just a child-like comment. Especially when the goal in hockey is to obtain Lord Stanley's Cup: something that your team didn't accomplish last season either, now did they?

I never said that the Avalanche had a horrible drafting system. I said that they were not known for it. They've got a few good, late round picks (such as Hedjuk, but he was hardly a late round pick considering he was in the fourth round), but most of their players are already scouted by the entire NHL because they're first round picks. I never said you have a horrible farm system, I said you're not known for it.

I agree with you. Hockey is about "buying" players. Hockey is also about having good drafts and "buying" players, though. If you only buy players you're going to get nowhere fast; look at the New York Rangers. Didn't do them much good to ignore their draft. And, yes, both the Red Wings and Avs have bought players. I agree with you completely. Buying players normally comes through successful drafting (when you have better drafting your team will improve, hopefully adding to your revenues), which both the Red Wings and Avalanche have had. The Lightning and Thrashers are starting to get that now, so I'm sure that they'll be bigger players in the free agent market soon. I'm not whining, either. I'm pretty sure someone merely said that the Red Wings only won the Cup because they "bought" it, which wasn't true, so I merely stated my opinion on the matter and gave some examples.

I'm not trying to be biased, I'm just giving you my honest opinion. Is it going to come out biased? Absolutely, just as your's will. You're an Avalanche fan, I'm a Red Wings fan, we're both biased to our teams even if you try to forget about it.

Actually, my post contained nothing as biased as saying that Colorado has a terrible drafting system. That statement is biased because you are a Detroit fan, but I am saying Detroit has a damn great drafting system as well, and even though I hate the Wings, I will give them credit where credit is due, unlike your remarks on our drafting techniques. Detroit got Datsyuk and Zetterberg, how can I argue they have a crappy scouting team, I can't, so I didn't, exactly what makes your remarks absolutely absurd since I said nothing biased toward the Avalanche as you stated in your post. I'd see eye to eye with you in a lot of things, mainly the good play of the Wings, pretty good personnel moves, and a good scouting and drafting system, but I don't agree with you that the Avalanche have a poor drafting system and "buy" the Cup like a lot of teams try to do, because that's the whole basis of professional sports.

Federov was ridden out of Detroit. You can offer someone a huge contract, and you can still treat them like crap for an entire season, and it doesn't matter what amount of money they throw at him, he wants to lead, not be behind players like Yzerman who need to retire. Yzerman, agreed, is a sports icon in Detroit, and I know Illitch wouldn't get rid of him. Hence, Federov goes to Anaheim, gets what he wants, and that's the end of the story. Zetterberg's emergence, probably not a huge impact whatsoever, I'd probably say Federov not getting what he wanted was more of a reason for his departure. And no, he was put on defense when the Wings went into a slump because they wanted a fast, playmaker in the back. I remember very well the slump, which they came out of due to a lot of what Federov did in the back. Although, then coaching kept his ass back there too long, then upsetting Federov, and now we are at the current situation. He is an extremely talented two way player, but when it comes to Federov, it's clearly either his way or the highway, and he chose the highway to Anaheim where he can do what he wants. Wow, my team didn't accomplish it last year, so what? 2000-2001 they did, and that's better than most teams.

Saying the Avalanche are not known for their drafting system is inaccurate when they get amazing picks outta the draft like they have been for years. Yes, I agree, hockey is about buying and drafting players. Rangers could be good except they have one problem, they don't mesh together at all. Too many different players on the ice together. And most opinions don't come out biased if you think clearly and give credit where credit is due, so I don't agree that our views will both be biased due to the fact we love seperate teams.

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

Just wondering from someone a bit more knowledgable(sp) But how is fleury doing wiht the pens? I mean i remember hearing alot of good about him but his record kinda sucks and he didnt do overly good in hte last game of the World Juniors.

[Ayepecks]

Actually, my post contained nothing as biased as saying that Colorado has a terrible drafting system. That statement is biased because you are a Detroit fan, but I am saying Detroit has a damn great drafting system as well, and even though I hate the Wings, I will give them credit where credit is due, unlike your remarks on our drafting techniques. Detroit got Datsyuk and Zetterberg, how can I argue they have a crappy scouting team, I can't, so I didn't, exactly what makes your remarks absolutely absurd since I said nothing biased toward the Avalanche as you stated in your post. I'd see eye to eye with you in a lot of things, mainly the good play of the Wings, pretty good personnel moves, and a good scouting and drafting system, but I don't agree with you that the Avalanche have a poor drafting system and "buy" the Cup like a lot of teams try to do, because that's the whole basis of professional sports.

Federov was ridden out of Detroit. You can offer someone a huge contract, and you can still treat them like crap for an entire season, and it doesn't matter what amount of money they throw at him, he wants to lead, not be behind players like Yzerman who need to retire. Yzerman, agreed, is a sports icon in Detroit, and I know Illitch wouldn't get rid of him. Hence, Federov goes to Anaheim, gets what he wants, and that's the end of the story. Zetterberg's emergence, probably not a huge impact whatsoever, I'd probably say Federov not getting what he wanted was more of a reason for his departure. And no, he was put on defense when the Wings went into a slump because they wanted a fast, playmaker in the back. I remember very well the slump, which they came out of due to a lot of what Federov did in the back. Although, then coaching kept his ass back there too long, then upsetting Federov, and now we are at the current situation. He is an extremely talented two way player, but when it comes to Federov, it's clearly either his way or the highway, and he chose the highway to Anaheim where he can do what he wants. Wow, my team didn't accomplish it last year, so what? 2000-2001 they did, and that's better than most teams.

Saying the Avalanche are not known for their drafting system is inaccurate when they get amazing picks outta the draft like they have been for years. Yes, I agree, hockey is about buying and drafting players. Rangers could be good except they have one problem, they don't mesh together at all. Too many different players on the ice together. And most opinions don't come out biased if you think clearly and give credit where credit is due, so I don't agree that our views will both be biased due to the fact we love seperate teams.

I never said Colorado had a "terrible" drafting system. I said that they "[were] not known for their drafting". I never once stated that they had a bad drafting system, if you'll read my posts. I'd never say that, because I know that they do make good picks and definitely are in the top half of the league in drafting, but they are not known for it. I would never make such a baseless fact as to say that Colorado is "terrible" at drafting. They aren't.

Fedorov wasn't ridden out of Detroit. He was offered a major contract and knows that Yzerman will retire very soon. Problem is, Fedorov wanted the leadership role now. He's not going to wait a year or two. It wouldn't be in the Wings best interest to force Yzerman to retire. Does he need to go? Eventually, yes. I'm thinking he'll retire after this season, but I don't know to be honest. He was the leading scorer for the Wings up until he was injured, so it's obvious he still has play left in him. Agreed that was the reason for his departure, however.

I still think both are views will be biased... Sorry, but we both love rival teams and it's always going to be in our mind, even if it is in the back of it.

[BMac]

Just wondering from someone a bit more knowledgable(sp) But how is fleury doing wiht the pens? I mean i remember hearing alot of good about him but his record kinda sucks and he didnt do overly good in hte last game of the World Juniors.

Fleury was at the juniors again this year. Sadly in the championship game he made a critical mistake. The final consisted of Canada vs the US. The score was 3-1 going into the third. That's when the wheels fell off. America scored 2 goals to tie the game. Then as time was ticking down the Americans dumped the puck down on Fleury and proceeded to forecheck. There were two Americans quickly approching and two Canadian defensemen trying to help Fleury out. Fleury tried to fire the puck out of the zone and proceeded to hit one of the Canadian defensemen and it went in the Canadian net to give the Americans the win 4-3. It was very disappointing for all Canadians but they gave it their all but could not take home the gold.

The future for Fleury is uncertain. It is expected he will go back to Pittsberg to play a few games but that's it. You see Fleury has incentives in his contract that kick in after another approximately 10 games. The Pens are trying to stick to a budget and most likely will not give Fleury a chance to cash in on his bonus. Sad though because without Mario the Pens really need an attraction to draw the fans.

[CatnipOligarchy]

Just wondering from someone a bit more knowledgable(sp) But how is fleury doing wiht the pens? I mean i remember hearing alot of good about him but his record kinda sucks and he didnt do overly good in hte last game of the World Juniors.

from what ive heard and read, he is facing about 35 shots per game. the pittsburgh defense is pretty pathetic. his record and his GAA suck, but hes made some outstanding plays to show the potential is there. a lot of people, myself included, think that letting him come straight to the NHL was a bad idea. i think he should play one season in the minors to get adjusted and develop his skills, but Pittsburgh is a troubled franchise and they want to win the fans back so they didnt waste any time with him, and the results arent great so far

[Fred Derf Veteran]

from what ive heard and read, he is facing about 35 shots per game. the pittsburgh defense is pretty pathetic. his record and his GAA suck, but hes made some outstanding plays to show the potential is there. a lot of people, myself included, think that letting him come straight to the NHL was a bad idea. i think he should play one season in the minors to get adjusted and develop his skills, but Pittsburgh is a troubled franchise and they want to win the fans back so they didnt waste any time with him, and the results arent great so far

It's not that Fluery belongs in the AHL, it's that Pittsburgh belongs in the AHL.

[CatnipOligarchy]

It's not that Fluery belongs in the AHL, it's that Pittsburgh belongs in the AHL.

true true :laugh:

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

**** bring em to winnipeg, new jets!

[mattmatik]

Go Sharks!

Gotta love a team that is 17-10-11-3 and is 7-2-1 in the last 10..and they're in first place!

I know they have no chance in the playoffs but what the hell, after the start they had it's a pleasant surprise.

[Ayepecks]

It's not that Fluery belongs in the AHL, it's that Pittsburgh belongs in the AHL.

Correct... unfortunately. :laugh:

[BMac]

Pittsberg is the trash hole of the NHL. They have had to trade amazing players like Martin Straka for a minor league defensemen Strbak who now plays 28 mins per night. It's tradgic. As for Catnip's comment on Fleury. His GAA is not that bad consider. Many games he's played in he's stopped 40 plus shots and still lost 2-0. That's not his fault. Any goalie would do that.

[bayrider]

well they beat NJ tonight 4-2

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

mats sundin suspended...

http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/2004/01/07...ts/sundin040107

[bayrider]

good... what a frickin retard. he should be fined too, he's lucky no one got hurt.

[bayrider]

what about Boucher? he's got 4 shutouts in a row!! working on his fifth.

what the record for most consecutive shutouts?

[RichieNine9]

what about Boucher? he's got 4 shutouts in a row!! working on his fifth.

what the record for most consecutive shutouts?

Boucher's streak is at 265:45 and is the second longest in modern history. He can break the record tomorrow @ Minnesota.

the record is held by Bill Durnan with 309:21 straight done back in '49 with Montreal.

[RichieNine9]

Hey Catnip...tonight is your Thrashers against my Stars. If this was any year before I would be pretty confident about a win. But this year...... :no: