Fast-food workers threaten global strikes

[rr_dRock]

Jobs won't stop existing just because the wage goes up, sure certain companies will fire people, but why were they hired in the first place them if they weren't needed? These are the questions you should be asking. We are going based on a 1.1-1.5% increase in costs DUE TO WAGES. 

 

The sourcing of goods is irrelevant in the walmart equation as it doesn't affect anything before or after wage increases, Wal-mart's prices goes up, but not their costs. Now if for example local company A has to pay more because because their costs went up, they will just raise their prices more to compensate, assuming everything works it way up at the end of the day were still looking at no more than 3% increase in prices. Even then it doesn't matter if everything goes up 10% as the amount being earned by the lowest earners is going to jump DOUBLE. Prices would literally have to raise OVER 100% to make the situation WORSE. Since those type of price increases are completely unrealistic this is just seeming more and more likely as a benefit to everyone who earn the minimum.

 

 

1) yes, they already have, just because it's been proposed. I don't know if you realize this, but Walmart isn't opening new stores... which means all of those jobs, are gone.

2) What were those people there for? CUSTOMER SERVICE. If you want ###### customer service, be my guest. I happen to prefer having a GOOD experience when I go shopping, not one where I contemplate lighting the building on fire Office Space style.

 

3) You're still ignoring the fact that people are greedy and since the market can accept a higher cost, there will be large increases.   We're a capitalist society, and that's not going to change just because some people get a higher rate that they don't deserve.

 

4) People were working harder, more manual labour 30 years ago, they deserved more money. Pushing a button on a computerized  cash register does not require a physics degree, nor should you be paid as though you have one.

[SierraSonic]

Here's a thought: Move to a place where the cost of living is less. People do it all the time. Good God, NYC is one of the worst places to be for a lower-skilled worker, unless a person is willing to have roommates and be prepared to make other sacrifices. Of course, making sacrifices is what our grandparents used to call an "average day". This country has gotten so spoiled it's a joke. We used to be a can-do nation where folks busted their butts to make it, but now it's all gimme gimme.

 

Listen Sierra, you've been making interesting points, but in the end, we're all products of the choices we've made in life. If the best someone can do is get a job at a fast-food restaurant or a day labor place such as Labor Ready, well then somewhere along the way they chose not to do the things that would have given them a more valuable skill set.

 

I actually think they should do away with a minimum wage altogether. I don't believe in artificial floors and in a global economy, the US is losing more and more jobs every day. Let the market determine it. If folks are willing to accept a given wage upon being hired, then so be it. People need to get over their pollyannish view of the world. You either fight for what you want or you are squashed like a bug.

Assuming everyone who can't support themselves moved out of new york, somebody would STILL have to fill that position, and they shouldn't be earning less than they did 30 years ago either.

 

Look 30 years ago, I'd agree with you, make the minimum wage, you have no right to complain, you were earning a livable wage. Now though, you are wrong, you can't live on this wage, and people are needed to fill these positions, and they can't all be filled by teens, or highly skilled people, but they should still have the right to be able to earn a living wage.

 

Yep lets go back to slave labor, that's the ticket for boosting the US economy...  US is losing more jobs everyday because higher taxes, healthcare and that third world countries are paying people sub-par wages to keep them in poverty so they have no choice to work at these places..

I believe we should have a global minimum wage to prevent companies from abusing a global economy and taking advantage of these countries.

 

 

Ignoring everything I said here, answer me this question: Why is it ok to be paying people less now than they did 30 years ago, for the exact same work? 

[Mr. Gibs]

But thats assuming everyones prices/costs would be raised, according to statistics it's closer to 4.7% of hourly earners that earn minimum wage or less. The devastation of giving 4% of workers what they are supposed to earn (if we want to match the rate they earned 30 years ago) is no where nearly as bad as you are trying to make it out to be.

But it just won't be them.

If you raise the minimum wage to $15, then everyone who was earning less than $15 will have to have their wages raised. Just not the people earning minimum wage. And there are a lot of people who make that kindoff money. Now the people who were making between $7.25 and $15 will all end up making $15 which makes them worse over.

You're still forgetting the main point. Companies exist to make money. If people have more money, the prices of goods go up. Take for example a pair of Levis jeans. In the US they cost like $50 each right? If you go to India or China a legit (not counterfeit or factory reject) store will sell you those exact same jeans for like $5. Why? Simply because people in the US can afford to pay more, so companies are going to charge more. As people in India and China have gotten richer overtime the prices of goods have also increased with it.

Which is why I said. The minimum wage earners will still be screwed, the middle wage earners will get squeezed even more than they currently are, and the rich will get richer.

[SierraSonic]

1) yes, they already have, just because it's been proposed. I don't know if you realize this, but Walmart isn't opening new stores... which means all of those jobs, are gone.

2) What were those people there for? CUSTOMER SERVICE. If you want ###### customer service, be my guest. I happen to prefer having a GOOD experience when I go shopping, not one where I contemplate lighting the building on fire Office Space style.

 

3) You're still ignoring the fact that people are greedy and since the market can accept a higher cost, there will be large increases.   We're a capitalist society, and that's not going to change just because some people get a higher rate that they don't deserve.

 

4) People were working harder, more manual labour 30 years ago, they deserved more money. Pushing a button on a computerized  cash register does not require a physics degree, nor should you be paid as though you have one.

1) Lack of new jobs, which is only a threat btw if the market demands more walmarts you can believe they will build more, is not less jobs, it's just not more jobs. If walmart doesn't build more business to fill in the demand, someone else will.

 

2) Extra isn't required. If a company wants to ruin it's brand by offering worse service, that's up to them and the market to decide if its acceptable.

 

3) You're assuming that greed of that scale can fly, greed has to be tactful, and if it isn't and can truly be shown only as greedy response, people will protest, or move on to companies that weren't so greedy.

 

4) If your talking about the start of the minimum wage I'd agree, this is just 30 years ago. People were working just as hard then as they are now, some aspects are just done with computers instead of manual registers. Stoves still need a human chef, bus boys still clean tables, shelves need to be stocked, etc. Which positions have changed so drastically in the last 30 years of minimum wage work due to technology.

[SierraSonic]

But it just won't be them.

If you raise the minimum wage to $15, then everyone who was earning less than $15 will have to have their wages raised. Just not the people earning minimum wage. And there are a lot of people who make that kindoff money. Now the people who were making between $7.25 and $15 will all end up making $15 which makes them worse over.

You're still forgetting the main point. Companies exist to make money. If people have more money, the prices of goods go up. Take for example a pair of Levis jeans. In the US they cost like $50 each right? If you go to India or China a legit (not counterfeit or factory reject) store will sell you those exact same jeans for like $5. Why? Simply because people in the US can afford to pay more, so companies are going to charge more. As people in India and China have gotten richer overtime the prices of goods have also increased with it.

Which is why I said. The minimum wage earners will still be screwed, the middle wage earners will get squeezed even more than they currently are, and the rich will get richer.

Untrue, we aren't just going to make it $15 right away, the current proposal is getting it to $9, the average increase will be less than a dollar. With more increases planned to bring it in line with inflation over time. Certainly not another 30 years, but not the drastic jump you believe it is.

 

This slower roll out will allow other wages to be adjusted to it without the harshness you are describing.

 

I believe something to do with taxes, shipping cost, export tariffs, and transportation costs may have more to do with that than just higher cost of living. Australians do not make double what Americans do, yet they pay nearly double for all these reasons.

 

 

I don't know how you can look at these graphs, and not realize there is a huge problem here.

 

The gap between what it was in money and what it was worth is shocking. Until the 90s the gap between money and its worth adjusted for today was averaging $6 an hour. Basically these people are working for $3.25 an hour in value! 

 

$.25 = 4$ = 8x

$.50 = $6.50 = 7x

$1 = $8 = 8x

$1.75 = $10.50 = 6x

$3.75 = $8.25 = 2x

$4.25 = $7.50 = 1.7x

 

The value of our money in relation to minimum wage was worth up to 8 times the amount it does today. How can you possibly think it's survivable when it's 8x weaker than it was at it's strongest, and 6x weaker than it was when it it started? And again, companies survived the 30s, the 40s, the 50s, the 60s, and even the 70s with these kind of wages, so they should be fine with the planned slow rollout.

[Hum]

Perfect. Replace them with robots, and then I can get my order correct. Because you know telling someone "no mayo" is so ####ing difficult to follow. And then you have the "oh here's some fries, let me empty all the salt in the pacific ocean onto them" or the "let me burn the bacon to where it ends up tasting like burnt cardboard".

If you can't follow simple instructions or do your job correctly, you don't deserve $15 or even $10. Sorry.

Our local McDonald's gets the order wrong, in some way, more than half the time.

 

You have to watch them every second.

 

And I see 2 or 3 new faces every time I go in.

[Shiranui]

Fast-food restaurants need to disappear, but that's another story.

There needs to be a little more compassion with regard to the plight of minimum-wage earners -- if only for the fact that, in the very near future, most of us will be relegated to their ranks, fighting for whatever scraps we can get.

[Mr. Gibs]

Untrue, we aren't just going to make it $15 right away, the current proposal is getting it to $9, the average increase will be less than a dollar. With more increases planned to bring it in line with inflation over time. Certainly not another 30 years, but not the drastic jump you believe it is.

Um you have been saying for 20 pages now, and even the article itself, that we should bump it to $15.

If you meant overtime then why didn't you state over time beforehand?

 

I believe something to do with taxes, shipping cost, export tariffs, and transportation costs may have more to do with that than just higher cost of living. Australians do not make double what Americans do, yet they pay nearly double for all these reasons.

Please read what I said again. And then again just to be safe.

I specifically didn't use Australia because there are other reasons why products cost a lot more there. I used America vs. India and China. Oh and btw, Australia's minimum wage is 15 AUD which is 14 USD. Pretty much almost double the US' federal minimum wage of $7.25.

 

I don't know how you can look at these graphs, and not realize there is a huge problem here.

The gap between what it was in money and what it was worth is shocking. Until the 90s the gap between money and its worth adjusted for today was averaging $6 an hour. Basically these people are working for $3.25 an hour in value!

I never said that there wasn't a problem. I'm all for people getting paid a living wage and there are a whole lot of problems, but just flat out raising the minimum wage will cause more problems than it solves. Economics isn't a simple black and white / right vs wrong thing. There are a ton of things to consider and we need to fix a lot of #### instead of just going "bam raise the minimum wage."

Go look at any country that has a high minimum wage and see how expensive things are there. The difference is that usually those countries that have a high minimum wage also have a really strong social safety net (due to significantly higher taxes) that protects people. America doesn't have such a strong safety net mainly because we don't want to pay higher taxes, but we still expect all the benefits just without paying for them.

And yet again, STOP LOOKING AT BIG CORPORATIONS.

[cork1958]

$15 an hour to work in a fast food joint? Somebody is smoking low quality crack!!

[SierraSonic]

Um you have been saying for 20 pages now, and even the article itself, that we should bump it to $15.

If you meant overtime then why didn't you state over time beforehand?

 

Please read what I said again. And then again just to be safe.

I specifically didn't use Australia because there are other reasons why products cost a lot more there. I used America vs. India and China. Oh and btw, Australia's minimum wage is 15 AUD which is 14 USD. Pretty much almost double the US' federal minimum wage of $7.25.

 

I never said that there wasn't a problem. I'm all for people getting paid a living wage and there are a whole lot of problems, but just flat out raising the minimum wage will cause more problems than it solves. Economics isn't a simple black and white / right vs wrong thing. There are a ton of things to consider and we need to fix a lot of #### instead of just going "bam raise the minimum wage."

Go look at any country that has a high minimum wage and see how expensive things are there. The difference is that usually those countries that have a high minimum wage also have a really strong social safety net (due to significantly higher taxes) that protects people. America doesn't have such a strong safety net mainly because we don't want to pay higher taxes, but we still expect all the benefits just without paying for them.

And yet again, STOP LOOKING AT BIG CORPORATIONS.

I was just stating reasons as to why we should eventually bump it to $15, and that it's a stereotype to think less of these people who should be earning a proper wage compared to what we were 30+ years ago.

 

I was comparing how the reasons why things cost more in australia compared to the us are basically the same reasons why they cost more in the us compared to china.

 

I believe the senate just had a bill filibustered that was supposed to raise it to $10.10. Since everyone would be making more, taxes collected would be higher, and there value would be closer to when the economy was stronger.

 

I'm not targeting anyone specific, companies survived with values the way they were before, don't let the amount of cash fool you, what you should care about is the value.

[Mr. Gibs]

I was comparing how the reasons why things cost more in australia compared to the us are basically the same reasons why they cost more in the us compared to china.

A lot of it has got to do with how much the market can bear the price. Corporations are always going to charge the maximum they can, because they want to make the maximum profit.

They're not going to go "oh well since people have more money, we should still keep our products the same price."

I'm not targeting anyone specific, companies survived with values the way they were before, don't let the amount of cash fool you, what you should care about is the value.

Companies survived sure. And corporations will continue to survive. Smaller businesses, not so much.

I mean most big corporations can easily up their minimum wage. Walmart double it to $15 and they would still make a decent profit. BUT how do you think the shareholders and board will react to that change? You think they're just going to go "oh well it's time we were nice to our employees"? No they'll either want the people who made that change to be fired and/or for the prices to be hire so they can recover that lost money.

Investors, at the end of the day, care about profit not how nicely treated the employees are.

[astropheed Veteran]

I've written several posts and none of them can describe how much this entitled little brat syndrome pisses me off. Get a proper job and tell you parents to stop being ball-less push-overs. The world is hard, it's harder if you're lazy. Get off your ass and get a job worth having.

 

50% of the time they screw up my order anyways. You have a job, do it right. If you feel you're better than that Job and it's not meeting your expectations? Good. That's life. Work harder and get something better. All you do when you successfully raise the wage of unskilled jobs is raise the cost of everything for everyone else (including YOU).

 

If It's not clear enough yet, this is not a solution, this is the damn problem. I swear if they put as much effort into trying to get money for nothing as they did into their jobs, they'd get better jobs and make more money.

 

/rant

[ATLien_0]

I've written several posts and none of them can describe how much this entitled little brat syndrome pisses me off. Get a proper job and tell you parents to stop being ball-less push-overs. The world is hard, it's harder if you're lazy. Get off your ass and get a job worth having.

 

50% of the time they screw up my order anyways. You have a job, do it right. If you feel you're better than that Job and it's not meeting your expectations? Good. That's life. Work harder and get something better. All you do when you successfully raise the wage of unskilled jobs is raise the cost of everything for everyone else (including YOU).

 

If It's not clear enough yet, this is not a solution, this is the damn problem. I swear if they put as much effort into trying to get money for nothing as they did into their jobs, they'd get better jobs and make more money.

 

/rant

 ^This

 

However I only say that for the actual spoiled brats. There are plenty of people who are genuinely trying to make a liveable wage to pay for school, healthcare or a family working these jobs. Those are the ones I feel bad for but have issues with. Those are the ones I feel like should be able to get a better job or find something higher paid

[leesmithg]

No union currently, they can all expect to lose their jobs on May 15th.  Even with a union, they may still lose them.

The mass world wide strikes will help people lose mass.

[Tews]

I hear the term Livable Wage and I wonder what this is, and who determines what a livable wage is?

[astropheed Veteran]

There are plenty of people who are genuinely trying to make a liveable wage to pay for school, healthcare or a family working these jobs. Those are the ones I feel bad for but have issues with. Those are the ones I feel like should be able to get a better job or find something higher paid

 

Good.

 

Someone having to go to Uni full-time, work a crappy job for enough money to stay sane while maintaining what little time they have left for a social life  is building character and establishing value life lessons for a firm foundation to life, which will be passed on to their children.. Those very same people are always the best sort of people. Do what you gotta do, and move on. The usually end up living in nice neighbourhoods, drive nice cars and have well behaved children.

 

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of protesters are the entitled brats, the Uni students wouldn't have the time.

[sinetheo]

Put your money where your mouth is?

 

Here is what would happen if you raised 15% 

 

 

People are all in favor of helping the little guy ... until it comes out of their own paycheck. Not a single customer was willing to contribute 15% of their purchases to the Walmart employees who made $8/hr. The value of their service was not worth the premium price. People think CEO's can afford ALL OF IT. Reality check is employee costs eat up much much more than the CEO makes. Ultimately the rest of us who have worked hard and went to school and studied and went into debt for many many years to prevent ourselves from $8/hr would be screwed to make just a tiny fraction above15 due to higher prices. 

 

It took years and $40,000 of student loan debt for me to make $17 an hour and I am about to make more soon. How is that fair?

 

I speak not about cruelty because life is not fair and harsh for those who are irresponsible! I do not deny that. But it is an economic reality that not all labor is valuable even if you need the cash.

 

People make poor choices in life and there are consequences. Ultimately yes someone does need to stock shelves and run the cash register. However, it maybe physically daunting, but it is not hard therefore it should not pay a lot as we do not value the labor. If you raise the price too high no one will do the work. People are begging for jobs and would be happy to take them if these losers do not want their $8/hr job. Go move back in with your parents and finish your degree? Go join the armed services and learn a skill? Go learn a trade like plumbing? Plumbers make as much as doctors!

[sinetheo]

Good.

 

Someone having to go to Uni full-time, work a crappy job for enough money to stay sane while maintaining what little time they have left for a social life  is building character and establishing value life lessons for a firm foundation to life, which will be passed on to their children.. Those very same people are always the best sort of people. Do what you gotta do, and move on. The usually end up living in nice neighbourhoods, drive nice cars and have well behaved children.

 

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of protesters are the entitled brats, the Uni students wouldn't have the time.

 

There is a shift. I am in my mid to late 30s. When I was teenager the majority of teens took McDonalds and grocery store jobs. Those that did were hired first after college as it showed employers a work ethic and basics that HR didn't have to worry about training.

Today parents do not let their kids work at a burger place. They look down at the work and feel it would be humiliating if my daughter/son worked there! These kids then graduate with no work experience and face a harsh reality. 

 

Life is hard! I wish we all could have more vacations, nicer work, nice homes and cars, and more time. But that is fantasy land. Those who are workaholics get ahead. Before you get married it is something you need to do. If not you will be left behind. Once in your 40s it is then good to cut your work back after you have proven yourself to spend time with the wife but still it is very very easy to get caught in an 8/hr hour.

 

FYI I took a job at taco bell a few years ago. :-( Out of a job and my wife was too. I was embarased and I worked 2 part time jobs for a little bit. I made $600 extra dollars last month I was there briefly and we had a surprise $600 bill!! It saved my ass and taught me a valuable lesson. 

 

I did not complain and thankfully worked my way out as the great recession started to die down. But I acknowledged I took it because I worked less and made mistakes which meant the value of my labor declined. I am worth more than 15/hr through my hard work. Not by whining and crying. 

[astropheed Veteran]

. . . They look down at the work and feel it would be humiliating if my daughter/son worked there! These kids then graduate with no work experience and face a harsh reality . . .

 

. . . I wish we all could have more vacations, nicer work, nice homes and cars, and more time. But that is fantasy land . . .

 

. . . Once in your 40s it is then good to cut your work back . . .

 

. . . I made $600 extra dollars last month I was there briefly and we had a surprise $600 bill!! It saved my ass and taught me a valuable lesson. . . .

 

. . . I did not complain . . .

 

. . . hard work. Not by whining and crying.

 

Excellent. Someone who gets it. Not saying most don't, but you really get where I'm coming from. Roll up your sleeves and get it done.

[sinetheo]

Excellent. Someone who gets it. Not saying most don't, but you really get where I'm coming from. Roll up your sleeves and get it done.

 

If you want to help everyone the base way is an economic one.

 

Give people condoms. I am serious! Especially in latin American countries and in China where the devalue is starting.

 

The reason these jobs are low value is supply and demand. With less land and food prices go up. With extra labors desperate for a job demand goes down. Extra skills can help too. If you try to artificially raise the system you will see more jobs going overseas and robots and less services and or products.

 

At the end of the day scarcity is still there which means if you are not making much higher than a burger flipper society will determine you can't have X etc. That is all a price is folks. A way to manage resources and a reward for those who work hard to make it. 

 

But this is at a macro economic level. For yourselves the best thing is to shut up and go get a job and work very smart and very hard. Work 2 jobs. Do something you can do well. If you are good with your hands be a plumber. If you are smart do IT work and get a degree. If you are in shape join armed services etc. There are options folks but it requires W-O-R-K. In yourselfs and not your employer.

[Mr. Gibs]

Extra skills can help too. If you try to artificially raise the system you will see more jobs going overseas and robots and less services and or products.

Well you can already see robots here too.

McDonalds in most locations has already replaced the drink machines with automated machines that do it for you.

Panera Bread is rolling out "tablets" for you to order food, drinks and pay instead of requiring cashiers.

[blerk]

Fast-food restaurants need to disappear, but that's another story.

There needs to be a little more compassion with regard to the plight of minimum-wage earners -- if only for the fact that, in the very near future, most of us will be relegated to their ranks, fighting for whatever scraps we can get.

I agree with you that more compassion is generally required, but I'm curious as to why you think a majority of people will soon have the misfortune to join their ranks?

 

Good.

 

Someone having to go to Uni full-time, work a crappy job for enough money to stay sane while maintaining what little time they have left for a social life  is building character and establishing value life lessons for a firm foundation to life, which will be passed on to their children.. Those very same people are always the best sort of people. Do what you gotta do, and move on. The usually end up living in nice neighbourhoods, drive nice cars and have well behaved children.

 

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of protesters are the entitled brats, the Uni students wouldn't have the time.

Liberal arts students: plenty of time

 

(/just kidding :D )

[MDboyz]

You can ask the same questions to all those Dem that support raising higher pay to see how many are willing to cut their income to support that. 

People are so loud when it is not their money. 

 

All people like us got paid more 'cuz we had to spend thousands of dollars to pay for school and stuffs.  You expect to get paid $15 just for flipping buggers? How much have you spent to master 'flipping' skill ? ...

[Nashy]

Unions will be the death of western countries.  I hope they don't get to join a union, but their Government takes note and does something about the completely inhumane minimum wage.

[Gerowen]

The problem is that this is the only job a lot of these people have access to.  Around here you either work for the coal industry or fast food, and Obama is doing a number on the coal industry so even those jobs are becoming harder to find.  There are VERY few other jobs around.  So even IF you get full time hours (99% of fast food employees are kept under 30 hours a week to avoid having to pay for health insurance), you're only making like $500 every two weeks after taxes.  A person can't live off that.  That barely keeps gas in the car, let alone car insurance, groceries, rent, electricity, water, vehicle maintenance...

 

Having worked for these companies and others in various positions, I know how much money these companies make.  If they can rake in $10,000+(conservative estimate based on business we did when I worked at McD's) in a single 8 hour shift off one store in a low income, low population hick town, then they can afford to pay their workers more than $500 every two weeks.