poll Windows 10 Preview (How do you like it?)

[PGHammer]

  On 16/01/2015 at 16:33, theyarecomingforyou said:

I'm sure it will be of use to some people but I just don't see the appeal, either for myself or casual users. It just doesn't strike me as a compelling feature, though I reserve judgement until I've seen the final implementation.

Did you try it in 9901?

 

I didn't think it would be all that much, either; still a LOT has been made of Google Now (and Siri, for that matter) - which is why I compared it heads-up TO Google Now.  It's not a major feature - however, it IS one of those "hidden gems" that stomps rather flat the competing features elsewhere (Google Now and Siri).  If anything, I'm expecting to hear a lot of "Why wasn't this done YEARS ago?" - as none of Cortana is exactly new technology.  The issue has been integrating it into the rest of the OS - which is an issue with ANY new (or improved, for that matter) technology.    It's a "stealth gem" that is better than the competition - which is enough.

[greenwizard88]

So I've got it installed on my laptop, natively.

 

It's not bad -ish. And yet it's terrible.

 

Compatibility wise, I have a dual 6630HD/HD3000 GPU that made the computer unusable with Windows 8, as it would blue screen all of the time. Since then, either Microsoft, Dell, Intel, or AMD got their act together, because I don't get blue screens every time I resume from standby.

 

But on the flip side, even with 12gb of RAM, the computer still sits and hangs sometimes. It's on things like opening new tabs in IE, or browsing folders in explorer, too. But it's not the HDD, because it's just sitting there... doing nothing (I have a HDD light LOL).

 

So overall, it's stable, gives me less issues as a beta than Windows 8 did on release, and works for work... but it's not quite there yet.

 

But I like it, I'll use it, and I'll be one of those idiots who updates his production machine on day-1 to it.

[theyarecomingforyou]

  On 16/01/2015 at 16:42, PGHammer said:

Did you try it in 9901?

Nope. I used the last public build in the fast release channel, which was a disaster. In the end I rolled back to Windows 8.1. When the next release comes out I'll install it on my backup SSD.

[FunkyMike]

  On 16/01/2015 at 17:12, greenwizard88 said:

So I've got it installed on my laptop, natively.

 

It's not bad -ish. And yet it's terrible.

 

Compatibility wise, I have a dual 6630HD/HD3000 GPU that made the computer unusable with Windows 8, as it would blue screen all of the time. Since then, either Microsoft, Dell, Intel, or AMD got their act together, because I don't get blue screens every time I resume from standby.

 

But on the flip side, even with 12gb of RAM, the computer still sits and hangs sometimes. It's on things like opening new tabs in IE, or browsing folders in explorer, too. But it's not the HDD, because it's just sitting there... doing nothing (I have a HDD light LOL).

 

So overall, it's stable, gives me less issues as a beta than Windows 8 did on release, and works for work... but it's not quite there yet.

 

But I like it, I'll use it, and I'll be one of those idiots who updates his production machine on day-1 to it.

 

Could be the AMD driver that is making it hang once in a while. Not unheared off to have freezes on PXAI machines such as yours with the newest drivers.

 

Other symptoms include slow startup, icons resetting upon start.

[greenwizard88]

  On 16/01/2015 at 18:45, FunkyMike said:

Could be the AMD driver that is making it hang once in a while. Not unheared off to have freezes on PXAI machines such as yours with the newest drivers.

 

Other symptoms include slow startup, icons resetting upon start.

 

You've just perfectly described my machine.

[WinMacLin Guy]

I am dual-booting 9901 alongside Windows 8.1, and so far I have not had any major problems. I was actually surprised that my drivers did not encounter any issues, especially considering this is one the builds where they rolled up the kernel to 10; I did not expect my applications to have any trouble because after reading an Ars Technica article I learned that Windows changes the behavior of APIs if an application from an older version of Windows is run, but I did expect there to be driver issues since a lot of drivers operate at a lower level.

 

There is a lot of work that remains, which I would expect since it is still in heavy development, but so far my experience has been good.

[FunkyMike]

  On 16/01/2015 at 19:01, greenwizard88 said:

You've just perfectly described my machine.

 

I have great news for you . Fix:

Enter your registry

Find

EnableULPS

set to 0 and restart.

There is another way to speed up the laptop which in regards to the above fix addresses other issues:

 

 

AMD messed up the "switching" aspect for DWM.exe (Desktop Windows Manager).

 

It is supposed to be constantly using whatever is best (Intel or AMD). However it has some major issues resulting in the slow down of Windows (Metro) or Chrome (even if set to Intel in CCC).

 

As if it is having a fight between Intel and AMD causing some kind of memory leak during prolonged OS use. 

 

Try restarting DWM.exe via CMD: taskkill /f /im dwm.exe to see if it has any effect for you and let me know the outcome.

 

Am trying to collect as much info as possible for the next UnifL release.

[greenwizard88]

  On 17/01/2015 at 03:24, FunkyMike said:

I have great news for you . Fix:

Enter your registry

Find

EnableULPS

set to 0 and restart.

 

That did the trick. Granded IE is giving me problems just typing a reply and I ended up using Firefox to type this... ahh the joys of a TP.

 

But the rest of the computer feels much more responsive. The start menu doesn't pause as it loads, and the facebook (metro) app was like *bam* on my screen. I don't think I'll have a memory issue (12gb for what ammounts to a facebook machine) but I'll keep the trick to kill the DWM in mind, too.

 

Also, the computer's palm rest is noticably warmer, but I guess that's what happens when you keep the dGPU on

[FunkyMike]

Glad to hear!

 

The interesting thing about the dGPU in this is that it is locked at 100MHz core 150MHz memory. Am not sure on why this is but it is normally only seen on desktops. (Naturally it scales fully up during games etc)

 

To me it just seems like an AMD bug resulting from this new post "14.4" approach. It might or might not be resolved. But yes you are right in stating that the device becomes hotter since it does not allow the AMD card to "switch off". It was also noted by several people that the battery life disperses faster. Can't have it all 

 

One more thing I can mention to improve the performance of web browsers:

 

AMD as you might know locks applications to either Intel or AMD on "dynamic switching". It is quite restrictive and I myself have been having issues on my 6xxxm series.

 

So on IE or Firefox running Flash will make the HD3000 kick in. After fiddling for some time I managed to unlock this so now you can put the "Firefox plugin container" (flash) or the flash container for IE into AMD mode in CCC.

 

Drastically improves performance of the browser but yet again the battery suffers.

[PGHammer]

  On 16/01/2015 at 11:09, theyarecomingforyou said:

I wouldn't say the economy was a major factor but rather people's perception of technology. Operating systems are seen as what ships with the device or a free update that comes later (like iOS and Android). Further, most people don't need any additional features.

 

 

I really don't think that Cortana is going to be a selling feature. As impressive as the technology is I can't see myself using much, if at all. On my phone I only use S Voice to set alarms because it's more convenient than setting them manually - on a PC with keyboard and mouse I don't see that being the case.

 

As a gamer and tech enthusiast I'll be upgrading for Windows 10 at launch, as I have done with every previous release since ME (the only really bad version of Windows). Perhaps we'll see some consumer orientated features that are truly compelling announced on the 21st but so far I haven't seen anything to suggest that will be the case. I haven't seen anything for the average consumer to get excited about.

theyarecomingforyou - by and large, the additional features in Windows 8 forward are features I can't use - because my hardware doesn't support them.  That, in and of itself, means I basically evaluated the OS as a straight upgrade - how well does it run - with the then-current hardware and application mix?  If the OS were to perform worse, it would be passed over - however, if performance goes up, the upgraded OS is a success.

 

Also, a lot of the critics indeed looked for reasons/excuses to not move, with the economy being crap.  However, as a technology enthusiast and support geek, I can't afford to think that way - too great a chance on being outright wrong.

 

And even I'm not saying that Cortana will be a SELLING feature; it will, instead, be a "stealth gem" (much the way that even Google Now and Siri are today).  After all, how many Android users actually USE Google Now today?  (Remember, it will work on Jelly Bean, and all the updates forward from it - it's not unique to Lollipop, or even KitKat.)  Google Now and Siri are first-generation virtual assistants - and both are still basically getting discovered.  Cortana for Windows will be the first wide deployment of such a VA - and it's capable of being used by any PC that is capable of running 7.  Yes - it's a gee-whiz feature; however, it's a lot more USABLE such feature than Hyper-V - or even touch support.

 

THAT is why I'm hoping that Cortana will be at least as unlocked as it was in 9901 - if it has MORE features, it could be a major jaw-dropper in just the gee-whiz sense.  (Remember, unlike touch, Cortana requires exactly NO new hardware - at all.)

[theyarecomingforyou]

  On 18/01/2015 at 13:29, PGHammer said:

theyarecomingforyou - by and large, the additional features in Windows 8 forward are features I can't use - because my hardware doesn't support them.  That, in and of itself, means I basically evaluated the OS as a straight upgrade - how well does it run - with the then-current hardware and application mix?  If the OS were to perform worse, it would be passed over - however, if performance goes up, the upgraded OS is a success.

I'm the same. For me I was happy to upgrade to Windows 8 as even though Metro is a disaster there were plenty of compelling features to warrant the upgrade - multi-monitor improvements, improved Taskbar and Explorer, cloud syncing, etc. However, that's not enough for the average person. They see they already have an operating system that does everything they need it to and don't see any reason to upgrade, especially if it costs money.

 

I'll be upgrading to Windows 10 for launch, just as I did with ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1.

 

  On 18/01/2015 at 13:29, PGHammer said:

And even I'm not saying that Cortana will be a SELLING feature; it will, instead, be a "stealth gem" (much the way that even Google Now and Siri are today).  After all, how many Android users actually USE Google Now today?  (Remember, it will work on Jelly Bean, and all the updates forward from it - it's not unique to Lollipop, or even KitKat.)  Google Now and Siri are first-generation virtual assistants - and both are still basically getting discovered.  Cortana for Windows will be the first wide deployment of such a VA - and it's capable of being used by any PC that is capable of running 7.  Yes - it's a gee-whiz feature; however, it's a lot more USABLE such feature than Hyper-V - or even touch support.

 

THAT is why I'm hoping that Cortana will be at least as unlocked as it was in 9901 - if it has MORE features, it could be a major jaw-dropper in just the gee-whiz sense.  (Remember, unlike touch, Cortana requires exactly NO new hardware - at all.)

Don't get me wrong, it's a sensible feature that makes for a good selling point given its prevalence on mobile platforms. When combined with other features it may help swing those on the fence. My point is just that I don't see it is as a compelling feature for everyday users. If I wasn't already planning to upgrade it wouldn't be the feature to change my mind.

[PGHammer]

  On 18/01/2015 at 16:47, theyarecomingforyou said:

I'm the same. For me I was happy to upgrade to Windows 8 as even though Metro is a disaster there were plenty of compelling features to warrant the upgrade - multi-monitor improvements, improved Taskbar and Explorer, cloud syncing, etc. However, that's not enough for the average person. They see they already have an operating system that does everything they need it to and don't see any reason to upgrade, especially if it costs money.

 

I'll be upgrading to Windows 10 for launch, just as I did with ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a sensible feature that makes for a good selling point given its prevalence on mobile platforms. When combined with other features it may help swing those on the fence. My point is just that I don't see it is as a compelling feature for everyday users. If I wasn't already planning to upgrade it wouldn't be the feature to change my mind.

True - after all, the greatest use for Siri (or Google Now) is as an augmented search engine - and that is today.

 

However, why do YOU see ModernUI as a disaster?  Aesthetic reasons?  (That seems to be the biggest complaint.)  If aesthetics were so important, that would be a major indication of VANITY on my part - I'm not from the "Shallow Hal School of IT".  Aesthetics CAN be changed, even in Windows 8.x - therefore, why are they so critical?  Because they CAN be changed, I could care less about aesthetics.

[onewarmslime]

  Quote

QuoteHowever, why do YOU see ModernUI as a disaster?  Aesthetic reasons?  (That seems to be the biggest complaint.)  If aesthetics were so important, that would be a major indication of VANITY on my part - I'm not from the "Shallow Hal School of IT".  Aesthetics CAN be changed, even in Windows 8.x - therefore, why are they so critical?  Because they CAN be changed, I could care less about aesthetics.

 

I'm not saying you can't use Windows 8.x without ever interacting with Metro. You can (although you'll definitely want to hit start + search). The thing is, when the default applications for playing music files or reading pdfs (both basic actions in desktop computing) are full screen "apps" that take forever to load and have no apparent way of closing , it's definitely an issue...

[DConnell Member]

  On 19/01/2015 at 15:13, onewarmslime said:

I'm not saying you can't use Windows 8.x without ever interacting with Metro. You can (although you'll definitely want to hit start + search). The thing is, when the default applications for playing music files or reading pdfs (both basic actions in desktop computing) are full screen "apps" that take forever to load and have no apparent way of closing , it's definitely an issue...

 

Considering the default for PDFs was nonexistent prior to 8, I'd say that's an improvement. There was no default in 7 or lower - you had to install Adobe Reader manually. And you can still install any other reader you choose. I don't have any issues with the built-in reader, but prefer full Acrobat on my tower and Adobe reader Modern version on the SP2.

 

I also can't see how XBox Music is any worse a default for music than Media Player was. If anything, Media Player was slower to load IMO.

[onewarmslime]

  On 19/01/2015 at 18:33, DConnell said:

DConnell, on 19 Jan 2015 - 20:33, said:DConnell, on 19 Jan 2015 - 20:33, said:DConnell, on 19 Jan 2015 - 20:33, said:

Considering the default for PDFs was nonexistent prior to 8, I'd say that's an improvement. There was no default in 7 or lower - you had to install Adobe Reader manually. And you can still install any other reader you choose. I don't have any issues with the built-in reader, but prefer full Acrobat on my tower and Adobe reader Modern version on the SP2.

 

I also can't see how XBox Music is any worse a default for music than Media Player was. If anything, Media Player was slower to load IMO.

 

 

[Dot Matrix]

  On 20/01/2015 at 00:04, onewarmslime said:

people don't normally turn on their computer just to listen to music. full screen programs were a horrible idea for both uses

I do, and I disagree.

[onewarmslime]

  On 20/01/2015 at 00:13, Dot Matrix said:

Dot Matrix, on 20 Jan 2015 - 02:13, said:

I do, and I disagree.

how about this, 99.99% of pepole don't normally turn on their computer just to listen to music. please give me one advantage a full-screen music player has over a windowed one (especially since the latter can essentially take up the whole screen if you want).

[Dot Matrix]

  On 20/01/2015 at 00:22, onewarmslime said:

how about this, 99.99% of pepole don't normally turn on their computer just to listen to music. please give me one advantage a full-screen music player has over a windowed one (especially since the latter can essentially take up the whole screen if you want).

WMP in fullscreen mode = visualizations!

[redfish]

If you're talking about the Modern UI media player, it doesn't really matter, since you can control the music through the volume display, the actual app is just a media manager.

 

 

Of course the app is still tuned to full screen use, I hope they can make some of the apps have compact modes specifically for Desktop use. The Zune desktop app had a button you could click which would bring the player into compact mode.

[zeke009]

I tried it in VirtualBox first and then loaded it on a Mac via BootCamp. Pretty good so far. I won't be installing it on my main machines quite yet, but so far so good on the Mac.

 

As this matures I may try it on my tablet, but not yet.

 

I do like what they've done with the Start Menu though, pretty decent job of bringing them together but retaining the information at a glance the Start Screen had.

[chrisj1968]

Windows 10 TP 9726 installed flawlessly and suto updated to 9926 without any hitches, I'm critquing the windows as a gamer point of view

[brlmedia]

upgraded my up to date 8.1 machine to the new preview build.   Seems my amd display driver is causing issues, will look into it.  the overall use is acceptable, although a little lag. chrome is a little unstable.  but i am enjoying testing and seeing what works and doesn't.

[Kazama Levi]

Upgraded from 9879 to 9926 today.

The part involving "Preview builds" under "Update and recovery was just plain terrible. Here's a screenshot which I skillfully annotated with the Snipping Tool (and which I had to save with Gimp because the Save function of the Snipping tool is broken):

 

 

Besides the fact that they can't even make the button match the text, the download experience was just plain awful:

There's no info whatsoever on what exactly it's downloading (Iso? Individual files for updates?) or which build. There's no indication of download progress whatsoever, or if the download is still running at all and the updater is crashed, leaving only the stupid spinning circle.

After about half an hour of this disgrace, it finally changed to "Install now". (What took it so long? Downloading the iso took only 10 minutes for me.)

However, upon pressing "Install now", I just got more of the same crap: no information whatsover it was doing exactly, no progress indicator whstoever... after yet another half an hour of this pathetic crap, it finally wanted to reboot.

After reboot, most of the texts were as indescriptive as possible ("Setting up some more stuff for you", oh really? ), but at least the was a percentual progress indicator. After yet another half an hour and a few reboots later, it was finally done.

 

Overall, no problems occurred, but taking 1 1/2 hours was awfully slow. Making a clean install (~15 min) and reinstalling everything (another ~15 min.) would've been quite a lot faster, and without potential upgrade-related problems. Plus, the first two thirds of the update experience were just plain terrible, with no progress indicator whatoever and no indication of whatever it is doing, or if it crashed or not in the meantime. Until this is significantly improved, I probably won't do it again.

 

The start menu in 9926 is a clear regression over 9879 (or perhaps it's just broken by design, who knows). It has has taken big steps backwards. There's still no simple way of removing all of the tiles from the start menu, you still have to remove them one by one. If you've removed them all, you're in for a nasty surprise in 9926. In 9879, the start menu shrunk down to ordinary size, once all the tiles were removed. This doesn't happen anymore in 9926, the start menu stays at the humongous size it had when it still showed the tiles. Now whenever you open the start menu, three quarters of it are empty space. It can't be resized anymore either to get it down to a decent size.
The icing on the turd cake is that they now also removed the search bar from the start menu. So you now have a start menu that always has a humongous size, lots of empty space, is not resizable to a decent size and now even lacks a search function. Whee!

[cwayne986]

Install went great, everything is working fine, only thing that bothers me is that I can't resize the start menu after I resize modern apps to medium or small, it just leaves a bunch of empty space after that other than that I'm liking the progress, and am sure the problem with the start menu will get worked on.

[bmetelsky]

Install went great, did it via dual boot so I could start with it from scratch.

 

cwayne986 - You will likely be able to resize the start menu in future updates.