Windows 10 Preview (How do you like it?)

By Steven P.
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Proficient

Defcon

Posted
Posted

IMO 9926 is a terrible update, it is not as stable as 9879 (which itself wasn't really fully stable, but that's to be expected), the update/install process is clear as mud, there is really very very little new to see, what's new doesn't work very well.

 

If this is the state of the OS 6 months before release (and for any major software, let alone Windows, 6 months is not long at all, its basically in only bug fix mode now), this is not a good sign at all.

Veteran

Ian S.

Posted
Posted

Upgraded from 9879 to 9926 today.

The part involving "Preview builds" under "Update and recovery was just plain terrible. Here's a screenshot which I skillfully annotated with the Snipping Tool (and which I had to save with Gimp because the Save function of the Snipping tool is broken):

Besides the fact that they can't even make the button match the text, the download experience was just plain awful:

There's no info whatsoever on what exactly it's downloading (Iso? Individual files for updates?) or which build. There's no indication of download progress whatsoever, or if the download is still running at all and the updater is crashed, leaving only the stupid spinning circle.

After about half an hour of this disgrace, it finally changed to "Install now". (What took it so long? Downloading the iso took only 10 minutes for me.)

However, upon pressing "Install now", I just got more of the same crap: no information whatsover it was doing exactly, no progress indicator whstoever... after yet another half an hour of this pathetic crap, it finally wanted to reboot.

After reboot, most of the texts were as indescriptive as possible ("Setting up some more stuff for you", oh really? :rofl: ), but at least the was a percentual progress indicator. After yet another half an hour and a few reboots later, it was finally done.

 

Overall, no problems occurred, but taking 1 1/2 hours was awfully slow. Making a clean install (~15 min) and reinstalling everything (another ~15 min.) would've been quite a lot faster, and without potential upgrade-related problems. Plus, the first two thirds of the update experience were just plain terrible, with no progress indicator whatoever and no indication of whatever it is doing, or if it crashed or not in the meantime. Until this is significantly improved, I probably won't do it again.

 

The start menu in 9926 is a clear regression over 9879 (or perhaps it's just broken by design, who knows). It has has taken big steps backwards. There's still no simple way of removing all of the tiles from the start menu, you still have to remove them one by one. If you've removed them all, you're in for a nasty surprise in 9926. In 9879, the start menu shrunk down to ordinary size, once all the tiles were removed. This doesn't happen anymore in 9926, the start menu stays at the humongous size it had when it still showed the tiles. Now whenever you open the start menu, three quarters of it are empty space. It can't be resized anymore either to get it down to a decent size.

The icing on the turd cake is that they now also removed the search bar from the start menu. So you now have a start menu that always has a humongous size, lots of empty space, is not resizable to a decent size and now even lacks a search function. Whee!

 

You really don't understand the concept of a early preview do you?

Let me try and answer every question and respond to every one of your comments, that to me have no real proof to back them up.

 

1. Snipping tool for me is not broken, neither is it for anyone else. What happened to yours?

2. The button doesn't match the text = can you do better in such a short amount of time, where that is not your top priority? This was fixed in 9926.

3. No info - was a known issue, fixed in 9926, you should be very happy.

4. Don't know why your update crashed. Your internet?

5.The spinning circle is not just Microsoft, Linux, Android, and iOS use the spinning circle as well. Again preview build.

6. The ISO does not take 10 minutes to download it is upwards of 4 gigs, unless you have internet faster than 150 gbps (which I have) and you are connected to ethernet (which I was) it would realistically take At Least 35 minutes.

7.Why not use the ISO if it only took 10 minutes to download?

8.It does not say setting up more stuff for you, it says getting devices ready 

9. Besides the fact that you did not have to clean install, you simply don't like Microsoft or whatever they do.

10. Start Menu >>> first version of continuum, complain to Microsoft through Insider. 

11. Start Menu known issue of removing tiles, why not leave them?

12." turd cake" (don't like a preview?, don't use it)

13. Search bar is still there as Cortana, don't know what the complaining is for.

 

Man I know you are a Microsoft/Windows/Beta Software hater but I did not have as many install issues as you did. BTW How long did others take to download the ISO? 

Working great so far! Everything installs and runs. Zero crashes and I've been running all builds since day 1 of the beta. Super stable on my end.

I did get one BSOD from the Lockscreen Reg hack though. But, expected as it was a reg hack, not even ready for testing.

  • Ian W and DConnell
  • Like 2
Grand Master

Quillz

Posted
Posted

IMO 9926 is a terrible update, it is not as stable as 9879 (which itself wasn't really fully stable, but that's to be expected), the update/install process is clear as mud, there is really very very little new to see, what's new doesn't work very well.

 

If this is the state of the OS 6 months before release (and for any major software, let alone Windows, 6 months is not long at all, its basically in only bug fix mode now), this is not a good sign at all.

Except it's not in bug fix mode at all, it's been clearly stated that this build isn't anywhere close to a finished state and several more features are being worked on an added. We also don't know when RTM will occur, it could be 6 months, it will likely be longer than that. Even this build itself is quite old, since Win10 builds are already past 10,000.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

Quillz (and others) - some folks are more concerned with aesthetics than performance/stability; this same group is also among the most vociferous and harshest critics of Windows 8+.

 

I also wonder if any of these critics remember the Previews of 7/Vista/XP - to put it bluntly, they were FAR worse in terms of performance and stability than the 10 Preview builds were, let alone 8's Previews (even the Developer Preview).

 

Since when is aesthetics more important than stability or performance? (A great-looking OS that runs like grits covered in molasses is of no use to me - and I hate grits PERIOD.  A great-performing OS that looks bad can be dealt with.)

Grand Master

chrisj1968

Posted
Posted

I am going to go out on a limb and say, " I like Windows 10 alot." I'm going to use integrity and character to say, my intial feelings towards Windows 10 were unfounded. The install of the original 9726 went without a hitch. it even installed my OS specifically for the desktop which works great since I have no touchscreen input whatsoever as you can see below:

 

c2lxz.png

 

I'm curious.. since the CP build id due this week, will our TP builds update to the CP builds? or.. are there two tracks they will have CP and TP still? my guess, we will update to CP.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Technical Preview will update to the Consumer Preview (as has been the case historically - in fact, THIS build came across both tracks simultaneously, as well as being "trackless" for clean installs).

 

chrisj1968 - a lot of the concerns (of the desktop-centric, as they call themselves) were because of the new paradigm that 8 brought - it's one that hadn't been seen before.  However, no other operating system had been in the position that Windows 7 was in, either.  7 was successful almost in spite of itself - and largely because Vista was passed on by enterprises.  What have we seen in terms of desktop software advancement since XP (either between XP and 7 or even between XP and today)?  At best we are seeing upgrades - the biggest, naturally being Office - however, even the upgrades in Outlook (the most improved program in the suite) were small in comparison to previous upgrades.  When your biggest improvements in your category are that small, what shape is the category itself in?  That basically sent a great big red flag to Microsoft - don't count on the desktop alone to drive operating-system upgrades - it won't happen.  That is very much the reason for Windows 8 - it's desktop-plus - not desktop-only.

 

The OEMs saw the flag, too - and they are pushing their hardware designs into new territory (in some cases, the push started with 7, such as new designs from Samsung, Lenovo, and even Toshiba) - the hardware there isn't standing still, either.

 

The desktop "bias" shrunk mainly because the desktop has lost mindshare of developers - other than games, what are the hardware requirements of mainstream software?  (In fact, how hard is even outlier software pushing mainstream hardware, and how is it selling?)  Desktop applications still work - in fact, they largely see improved performance and improved stability of previous versions of Windows - including 7, which was far from a slouch.  However, in a the teeth of a bad economy, it's harder to flog an upgraded OS, and especially one with two strikes against it (a changed paradigm and no change in hardware requirements from the previous OS).  The biggest knock against 8 may well have been the lack of change in hardware requirements - that took away the ability of a new OS to drive hardware sales.  (Windows 10's hardware requirements are the same - for the fourth consecutive OS upgrade cycle.)

 

Windows 10 WILL see resistance - and for all of the same reasons 8 did.

Edited by PGHammer
Grand Master

chrisj1968

Posted
Posted

The Technical Preview will update to the Consumer Preview (as has been the case historically - in fact, THIS build came across both tracks simultaneously, as well as being "trackless" for clean installs).

 

chrisj1968 - a lot of the concerns (of the desktop-centric, as they call themselves) were because of the new paradigm that 8 brought - it's one that hadn't been seen before.  However, no other operating system had been in the position that Windows 7 was in, either.  7 was successful almost in spite of itself - and largely because Vista was passed on by enterprises.  What have we seen in terms of desktop software advancement since XP (either between XP and 7 or even between XP and today)?  At best we are seeing upgrades - the biggest, naturally being Office - however, even the upgrades in Outlook (the most improved program in the suite) were small in comparison to previous upgrades.  When your biggest improvements in your category are that small, what shape is the category itself in?  That basically sent a great big red flag to Microsoft - don't count on the desktop alone to drive operating-system upgrades - it won't happen.  That is very much the reason for Windows 8 - it's desktop-plus - not desktop-only.

 

The OEMs saw the flag, too - and they are pushing their hardware designs into new territory (in some cases, the push started with 7, such as new designs from Samsung, Lenovo, and even Toshiba) - the hardware there isn't standing still, either.

 

The desktop "bias" shrunk mainly because the desktop has lost mindshare of developers - other than games, what are the hardware requirements of mainstream software?  (In fact, how hard is even outlier software pushing mainstream hardware, and how is it selling?)  Desktop applications still work - in fact, they largely see improved performance and improved stability of previous versions of Windows - including 7, which was far from a slouch.  However, in a the teeth of a bad economy, it's harder to flog an upgraded OS, and especially one with two strikes against it (a changed paradigm and no change in hardware requirements from the previous OS).  The biggest knock against 8 may well have been the lack of change in hardware requirements - that took away the ability of a new OS to drive hardware sales.  (Windows 10's hardware requirements are the same - for the fourth consecutive OS upgrade cycle.)

 

Windows 10 WILL see resistance - and for all of the same reasons 8 did.

 

interesting points. I see exactly what you are saying. I was a 10 nay sayer by the screenshots thinking, "oh GAWD, not another windows 8!" But using 9926, I'm seeing that this windows can be a plus for both modern UI users and desktop users. I honestly believe that if MSFT keeps this ball rolling carefully, they can get it right. My first impression of the start menu was also another oh noes moment but testing it out and how it is broken down alphabetized, and a section for most used programs and basically the menu "rolls" and doesn't extend and hog desktop space ala XP, I'm impressed.

 

my lesson learned: shut my mouth until I try it out, you know, kick the tires. :yes:

 

I personally think, and it should agree with your post is, the hate will be "probably" relegated to hating Windows 10 simply because of the tiles in the start menu. I turned off my tiles all except for the official feedback app to send MSFT suggestions. I simply think that if we DO get Aero glass back, that'll be the icing on the cake if you forgive the pun. But without it on 9926 TP, I like it more than windows 7 and I really liked 7. 7 was for the failure that was Vista, it was faster than Vista too. But 8 and 8.1 smoked 7 in terms of bootup and 10 is right there with those two.

 

Gaming: Woooo! I get the same performance, smooth graphics like we saw during the side by side comparisons of DX11 vs DX12 during last wednesday's webcast. the DX12 stack or code, whatever you call it is really optimized that even DX 11 cards can reap a benefit albeit not the advanced graphics abilities that will come from DX12.

Grand Master

Quillz

Posted
Posted

Quillz (and others) - some folks are more concerned with aesthetics than performance/stability; this same group is also among the most vociferous and harshest critics of Windows 8+.

 

I also wonder if any of these critics remember the Previews of 7/Vista/XP - to put it bluntly, they were FAR worse in terms of performance and stability than the 10 Preview builds were, let alone 8's Previews (even the Developer Preview).

 

Since when is aesthetics more important than stability or performance? (A great-looking OS that runs like grits covered in molasses is of no use to me - and I hate grits PERIOD.  A great-performing OS that looks bad can be dealt with.)

I'm not saying people shouldn't be complaining about aesthetics, because it is an important aspect of the OS. You can argue if its more or less important than any other aspect, but it's still important.

 

But as others stated, there's nothing wrong with giving feedback on how something works and why you don't like it. It's the constant barrage of unfounded complaints that are within the Feedback app that are just awful. Things like "FIX THIS!!!111!!!11" or "BRING BACK AERO GLASS!" when it's already been stated by Microsoft that many things that people are complaining about are already known and being addressed in future builds.

 

Thus, my comment that it seems a lot of the people who are using this Win10 build either don't understand this is beta software and not finalized, or they just like to complain. Probably the latter.

Should be an upgrade. Available via Windows Update as usual.

Where has been confirmed we're getting the CP this week? I was under the impression the build that was being released "next week" was 9926 and just came a bit early.

Rising Star

onewarmslime

Posted
Posted

Things like "FIX THIS!!!111!!!11" or "BRING BACK AERO GLASS!" when it's already been stated by Microsoft that many things that people are complaining about are already known and being addressed in future builds.

 

"Bring aero back" is a perfectly good feedback to give. Not everyone checks neowin so most people probably don't know that microsoft has stated that W10 will have aero glass.

Contributor

Drakknar

Posted
Posted

I quite like it. I did a fresh install on my secondary hard drive and I found it to be quite stable and snappy. Functionality-wise, I like the new notification center (even if the UI needs some further tweaks), the new task switcher + multiple desktops and the transition from the control panel + system settings to the new unified control panel, which I hope will completely replace the two of them. As someone who really didn't like the Windows 8 Start Screen (on Desktop PCs), I quite like the new Start Menu.

 

Speaking about the UI, besides Aero Glass, which I think would make the UI much nicer to the eyes, I'm quite displeased with the overall inconsistency of the User Interface. Some windows have a coloured 1px border on the left and on the right side, while other don't; the icons are the usual mixture of XP, 7 and 8, and the menu and title bar styles are a mess (see image). I also hope that they will somehow improve the font rendering on Modern apps, as on my regular-dpi screen it doesn't look very nice (same with Windows 8, of course)

 

hOvBpfB.png

 

I know this is a relatively early beta build, so things can change. I'm just pointing out what I would like Microsoft to fix (and yes, I reported those issues on the Feedback Tool, too). I think that showing a nice-looking and consistent UI will be one of the key-factors to conquer back a lot of users which otherwise will stick with Windows 7, so I hope someone at Redmond will spend a lot of time and efforts to fix and refine those elements.

  • Jackaluichi, Stoffel and Aergan
  • Like 3
Grand Master

chrisj1968

Posted
Posted

This is how I see windows 10. I see everyone getting what they want. I like that a lot. I want to see both user interface camps happy and able to enjoy Windows 10. I'm tired of the disharmony between the camps. reminds me of the hatfields and mccoys.

 

we are on the same code base, everyone will be able to stream their xboxone games on windows 10 or tablet or phone based upon the base code.. am I correct?

 

i'm happy. well, anyways, my pain killers are making me happy. 

 

But I think I want to change my personal character around here. I want to have a better reputation. sure we all won't agree on all things but, I enjoy this commuity, the people, THE WISDOM and of course gather with others who are in geekdom like me. I don't mean geekdom in any derogatory sense either, rather in honor. from this day out, I want to be a better man for it.

 

Cheers!

Grand Master

TAZMINATOR

Posted
Posted

It get's worse. I fired it up again because I wanted to confirm a bug in VLC across different OS's and this is how slow it was in extracting the VLC zip file...

 

windows10.png

 

 

I then tried it on another VM running XP with 1/4 the memory and 1/4 the number of CPU's and it did it in less than a minute.

 

It is not OS.   It's based on the system configuration.

 

For example, Newer Acer laptop: videos play smoothly...   Old Acer laptop: videos play skippy/lag.

 

Both has 4gb RAM and 64bit... 

Grand Master

Quillz

Posted
Posted

I quite like it. I did a fresh install on my secondary hard drive and I found it to be quite stable and snappy. Functionality-wise, I like the new notification center (even if the UI needs some further tweaks), the new task switcher + multiple desktops and the transition from the control panel + system settings to the new unified control panel, which I hope will completely replace the two of them. As someone who really didn't like the Windows 8 Start Screen (on Desktop PCs), I quite like the new Start Menu.

 

Speaking about the UI, besides Aero Glass, which I think would make the UI much nicer to the eyes, I'm quite displeased with the overall inconsistency of the User Interface. Some windows have a coloured 1px border on the left and on the right side, while other don't; the icons are the usual mixture of XP, 7 and 8, and the menu and title bar styles are a mess (see image). I also hope that they will somehow improve the font rendering on Modern apps, as on my regular-dpi screen it doesn't look very nice (same with Windows 8, of course)

 

hOvBpfB.png

 

I know this is a relatively early beta build, so things can change. I'm just pointing out what I would like Microsoft to fix (and yes, I reported those issues on the Feedback Tool, too). I think that showing a nice-looking and consistent UI will be one of the key-factors to conquer back a lot of users which otherwise will stick with Windows 7, so I hope someone at Redmond will spend a lot of time and efforts to fix and refine those elements.

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing this, the title bar widget placement in build 9926 is really annoying. You can just tell it's off by a pixel or two. Like you said, it's early and I expect this to be addressed. Maybe the next build.

  • Jackaluichi and Aergan
  • Like 2
Grand Master

Stoffel

Posted
Posted

This is how I see windows 10. I see everyone getting what they want. I like that a lot. I want to see both user interface camps happy and able to enjoy Windows 10. I'm tired of the disharmony between the camps. reminds me of the hatfields and mccoys.

 

we are on the same code base, everyone will be able to stream their xboxone games on windows 10 or tablet or phone based upon the base code.. am I correct?

 

i'm happy. well, anyways, my pain killers are making me happy. 

 

But I think I want to change my personal character around here. I want to have a better reputation. sure we all won't agree on all things but, I enjoy this commuity, the people, THE WISDOM and of course gather with others who are in geekdom like me. I don't mean geekdom in any derogatory sense either, rather in honor. from this day out, I want to be a better man for it.

 

Cheers!

 

I really like your post, although I don't agree.

 

I feel that the people wanting to use Win 10 on a tablet > 8" are getting shafted.

The Win 8.1 experience for tablet use was pretty much perfect, now we need to deal with title bars, task bars,... It doesn't feel like a tablet OS anymore.

It's more like Shoehorning Win 7 back onto a tablet

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

chrisj1968 - That is almost word-for-word that I said in my post concerning the Windows (8) Consumer Preview.  I went into the Developer Preview with a ton of doubt for the exact reason why it collected all those brickbats - the Start menu was gone.  I didn't have a notebook at all, then - I had just the desktop.  Worse, I went all the way back to the beginning of the Start menu - Windows 95 (specifically, beta 2, build 224 - AKA OS/2's Worst Nightmare).  Surprise - I found both the Developer Preview, and Consumer Preview, quite usable - and with ALL my software (pretty much entirely desktop applications and games) - and despite no Start menu.  I owned up about the doubts, too - and did my mea culpa in the Consumer Preview followup.  Still, I didn't want ANYONE to take my word for it - my own advice was rather pithy - download the CP and try it yourself.

 

Thing is, all too many folks are looking strictly at the lack-of-Start menu and deeming the OS unusable because of it.

 

Please - like the Start menu is the only way to launch applications.

 

How many NEW ways were introduced to launch applications simply since the Start menu originally was created?

 

Other than the Start menu itself, Windows lost none of them with 8 (or 10, for that matter).

 

That sort of thinking got me on my soapbox and led directly to "Are You Married To Your Mouse?" (posted in "The Soapbox" here on Neowin - my post was not entirely on Windows, as similar thinking shows up in other GUIs as well; however, the only place such thinking doesn't show up is GUIs not dominated by pointing devices).

 

Windows 10's Technical Preview is, quite easily, the best OS for legacy portables I have ever run - and entirely due to ModernUI (and the applications thereof) and better trackpad/touchpad support.

 

It's better for laptops and notebooks for the same reason ModernUI is better for non-desktops - smaller screen sizes compared to desktop PCs.

 

However, the trackpad/touchpad issue (and more so trackpads - NOT touchpads) that had me bouncing hard off the ceiling.

 

Unlike touchpads (the latest generation - which are actually descendants of trackpads), the original trackpad goes back to before the death of ME - all the way back to NT, in fact.  And the entire time, trackpad support has been subpar.

 

What was worse, I haven't been the only one that thought so - apparently the issues with trackpads (and their touchpad descendants) go back further (and REACH further) than even I suspected.

 

What was the recommendation from all and sundry?  The IT version of "Get a horse!" - "Get an (external) mouse!"

 

It was precisely comments like that which slowed up my actually buying a laptop OR notebook for myself.

 

Finding out that driver support has been the entire issue, and one that has been basically buried, does NOT help my mood any.

 

There are Certain Pro-Pointing-Device Neowinians that I want to chase around Neowin Square and flog with a bullwhip made out of wet linguini due to them outing themselves.

 

How prevalent IS such deliberate sabotage?

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

True - there will be some tile-hate.  However, I treat tiles like I treated gadgets - adjuncts to existing applications, for the most part.  (Only the Weather tile is all that standalone - however, it DOES replace a Win32 utility that was far larger and lived in the TaskTray (AWS WeatherBug) that was also notoriously buggy; for the lack of bugs AND that it is also smaller, it actually has a use for me.  Tiles that have a use - like Gadgets that had a use - will get used.)  The Notifications tile ties in to Notification Center - which ALL applications can use; it's not ModernUI-specific. Tribler (my current BT client), BlueStacks, and Outlook ALL feed into Notification Center (and thus the Notifications tile), and they are Win32, Win32, and Win64, respectively - so does Facebook (via the ModernUI app - which is installed strictly for that purpose); everything else Facebook-related I do via the browser I am using at the time.  So I actually have use for tiles.

Community Regular

typu

Posted
Posted

I have just installed the x64 version on an old hp pavillon notebook. intel centrino 2. runs very nice :-) well i cheated, i switched the drive with an old intel ssd, but still. very impressive that it runs that well on that "old" hardware.

 

oh i was too quick. the 32bit version worked well. the 64x does not. when i click on the start menu it does not appear. too bad.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

My dv9700 is an even older HP Pavilion, so I'm far from surprised on the performance issue, and especially with an SSD installed.  (I'm looking at a similar swap when 10 goes RTM.)  The reason I haven't swapped yet is that capacity is growing, while physical sizes - and prices - are not.  (If anything, price per GB is dropping for SSDs.)

Grand Master

TPreston

Posted
Posted

Upgraded my 8.1 syspreped image to this build. It completely ignored the predefined start screen group policy I had set the factory expierance better not be anything like this. I don't like the way the start menu is now forced on us even if you maximized it your still stuck with all your programs in a tiny strip on the left.

  • DConnell and Ian W
  • Like 2
Grand Master

chrisj1968

Posted
Posted

I have to admit, I was being terribly unfair to the star screen (modern UI) users. It appears by my observation that MSFT was trying to implement what they are doing now with 10. except there wasn't a continuum back then just yet. MSFT had this idea, base all the platforms, Win10/xboxone/tablets & Phones off the same code base, again, just pure observation here and probably a little speculation too.

 

It appears that the team back in Windows 8/8.1 weren't quite sure or didn't have some sort of.... cooperation? or everyone being on board or aware of what they wanted to do to achieve Continuum. They had the idea but without a solid method of implementation or everyone wasn't on board, I think xboxone,windows and tablet sections weren't communicating? It seems like, i remember the windows head during 8 left? my guess is, now we have a team who got with xbox, windows and tablet and have figured out the plan to cooperate and got the code base's for all three on one sheet of music. a huge firm like MSFT is large and can be difficult to organize and make sure everyone knows what is expect, and how to get there.

 

I guess...

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing