Let's Make This Clear: Windows 10 is NOT A SUBSCRIPTION [Rant]

By Ian S.
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted

So, what if you upgrade to Windows 10 for free from a previous version, (7, 8.0 or 8.1) then on the 366th day or whatever your HDD crashes and you need to reload. Are you SOL?

 

So is it really free, or were they just loaning it to you? There should at least be some type of way to reload with your free key or something even after the first year.

 

Or am I reading it wrong, or has this not even really been touched on at all?

Grand Master

Brandon H Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 13:09, xendrome said:

So, what if you upgrade to Windows 10 for free from a previous version, (7, 8.0 or 8.1) then on the 366th day or whatever your HDD crashes and you need to reload. Are you SOL?

 

So is it really free, or were they just loaning it to you? There should at least be some type of way to reload with your free key or something even after the first year.

 

Or am I reading it wrong, or has this not even really been touched on at all?

I don't foresee the scenario changing any from how it is currently. reload the OS on another HDD/SSD using the same key then if needed call the activation line to reactivate

Grand Master

adrynalyne

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 13:09, xendrome said:

So, what if you upgrade to Windows 10 for free from a previous version, (7, 8.0 or 8.1) then on the 366th day or whatever your HDD crashes and you need to reload. Are you SOL?

 

So is it really free, or were they just loaning it to you? There should at least be some type of way to reload with your free key or something even after the first year.

 

Or am I reading it wrong, or has this not even really been touched on at all?

You own the license, not the software, so I don't see it being any different than re-entering your key.

Grand Master

Ironman273

Posted
Posted

Windows 10 will cost $35 and come with a free PC!

 

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-coming-for-free-to-the-new-raspberry-pi-2

Explorer

timbo_sf2

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 12:15, FaiKee said:

Steven, guess we'll be hearing something more later, ATM I couldn't say anything about the mechanism, release name, etc, or even if it would come out after all. Here's a QQ msg I got last month.  :)

 

rw3rI4h.jpg

 

Btw, no comment on OP's post, if people thought that the "free for the first year" implies about win365, it's their own thought, I just couldn't care less.

never ever forever for that

I will trust Mary Jo Foley's source over yours

Grand Master

DeusProto

Posted
Posted

What I am wondering is, what do they mean by "supported lifetime of the device?" I build my own PCs, so there is no "supported lifetime" does this only apply to prebuilt PCs with a specified warranty?

Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 13:44, Brando212 said:

I don't foresee the scenario changing any from how it is currently. reload the OS on another HDD/SSD using the same key then if needed call the activation line to reactivate

 

 

  On 03/02/2015 at 13:53, adrynalyne said:

You own the license, not the software, so I don't see it being any different than re-entering your key.

 

But is the Windows 10 "Free" upgrade going to be delivered through Windows Update? If so after the first year, will they just pull that or will there be ISO's that can be downloaded so an install can be done via the key?

 

Look at Windows Media Center for 8.X, they gave it out free also during the first part of release, but now if you try to activate it, the keys are invalid.

Grand Master

Brandon H Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 16:06, DeusProto said:

What I am wondering is, what do they mean by "supported lifetime of the device?" I build my own PCs, so there is no "supported lifetime" does this only apply to prebuilt PCs with a specified warranty?

until the device fails is how I understand it (aka until you get a new device or have to start replacing key components such as the mobo)

 

  On 03/02/2015 at 16:07, xendrome said:

But is the Windows 10 "Free" upgrade going to be delivered through Windows Update? If so after the first year, will they just pull that or will there be ISO's that can be downloaded so an install can be done via the key?

 

Look at Windows Media Center for 8.X, they gave it out free also during the first part of release, but now if you try to activate it, the keys are invalid.

I foresee there being 2 options.

 

1. you'll buy an upgrade key just like they had for 8 & pop in a disk/usb to do the install

 

or 2. you'll buy an upgrade key & also install a file that tells windows update to install 10 & that update will inject the new key (similar to how they have it for the TP currently)

Grand Master

Knife Party

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 16:07, xendrome said:

But is the Windows 10 "Free" upgrade going to be delivered through Windows Update? If so after the first year, will they just pull that or will there be ISO's that can be downloaded so an install can be done via the key?

 

Look at Windows Media Center for 8.X, they gave it out free also during the first part of release, but now if you try to activate it, the keys are invalid.

that's what I want to know aswell. Will they allow you to download a clean iso install and activate with a key, or is it going to be a windows update that fails to upgrade properly like it has so many times.

Grand Master

Brandon H Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 16:16, Knive Party said:

that's what I want to know aswell. Will they allow you to download a clean iso install and activate with a key, or is it going to be a windows update that fails to upgrade properly like it has so many times.

I'm betting it'll be handled in a similar fashion as the free 8 upgrade was handled. just with the extra option of using windows update

Grand Master

DeusProto

Posted
Posted

It's clear that Microsoft does not want to clear up the ambiguity with the "supported lifetime of the device" statement.

 

I take it to mean that only retail PCs with a warranty and Windows 7-Windows 8.1 sticker on the side of the case - Dell, Gateway, Alienware, etc will get the free upgrade and it will get free updates until the warranty runs out.  

 

People like me who NEVER buy prebuilt PCs will be left out in the cold because there is no warranty.

 

Relevant article from today on this very issue:

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/microsoft-not-yet-ready-describe-what-supported-lifetime-device-means-windows-10

Grand Master

Active.

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 16:58, DeusProto said:

 

Exactly the impression I'm getting:

  Quote

 

The debate is over what exactly "supported lifetime of the device" really means. And, there's the rub: It would seem that Microsoft doesn't yet know, either.

Grand Master

The_Observer

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 05:38, ians18 said:

This is a serious issue, Microsoft must clear this up on their main news channels.

 

 

Knew this would happen from day 1, MS love to give half ass statements and then wonder why people bitch about the product and then spend all this time trying to clean up the mess! Xbox One anyone??? They need to say straight up what there plan is, and if they don't know then WTF are they doing!!

  • Knife Party
  • Like 1
Grand Master

+Warwagon MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Why doesn't Microsoft release a statement saying..

 

  Quote
Windows 10 will be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and Windows 8 / 8.1 for the 1st year. After the 1 year if you upgraded to Windows 10 it's yours to keep for ever. You can use the product key we provide you during the upgrade to reinstall Windows 10 if needed.

 

Then have them say in big letters

 

  Quote
THIS FREE UPGRADE IS NOT A SUBSCRIPTION!.
  • timbo_sf2, DConnell and The_Observer
  • Like 3
Grand Master

Knife Party

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 17:28, ians18 said:

What I am truly worried about is the number of upvotes each Yahoo comment has.

you have waaay too much time on your hands to worry about minor things like these :/

  • +Random Stranger
  • Like 1
Grand Master

Intersect

Posted
Posted

errr i never for one second thought that this free up grade would be subscription based.

it clearly says free for the 1st year, meaning that after one year of released windows 10 you will need to pay for windows 10 even of you have a previous version such as 7/8/8.1

 the media is to blame for the confusion where they put there spin on things. not saying neowin is at fault here but you would get the likes of FOX saying otherwise.

Mentor

Clirion

Posted
Posted

Everything that has been stated is true today.  Windows 7 is fully updated for the support life of the device.  Windows XP was supported for the life of the device.

If you go to upgrade on day 366, you have to pay for the upgrade.  If you upgrade on day 364, you get it for free.

 

Some of the industry have thought it was going to be subscription,  not once did Microsoft say it.  So now everyone is reading wayyyyy to much into this.

Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 17:50, Clirion said:

Everything that has been stated is true today.  Windows 7 is fully updated for the support life of the device.  Windows XP was supported for the life of the device.

 

Not true, Windows 7 and Windows XP support was never supported "for the life of the device" it's supported according to Microsoft's lifecycle dates of their software. They have never said they are supporting those OS's for the life of a device.

 

If that's the case, I want support on a Pentium 100mhz AST laptop I have with WIndows 3.11....

Mentor

Clirion

Posted
Posted
  On 03/02/2015 at 19:24, xendrome said:

Not true, Windows 7 and Windows XP support was never supported "for the life of the device" it's supported according to Microsoft's lifecycle dates of their software. They have never said they are supporting those OS's for the life of a device.

 

If that's the case, I want support on a Pentium 100mhz AST laptop I have with WIndows 3.11....

Actually it is true.  I am sending a link to a document from 2004 for Windows XP Embedded.  It actually shows them using Life of the Device.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd143258(v=winembedded.5).aspx

 

I cannot find the documentation we had in the class for licensing.  But life of the device is considered to be Life of the OS plus the Hardware.  You can transfer some licenses, other Windows OS licenses are tied to the device itself (OEM Versions).  So your license for Windows 10 would not be valid if your Laptop died and you needed a new one (assuming the OEM version of Windows 8 is used) because it is not transferable.

 

So there are 2 different things.  

 

1. OS Lifetime

2. License for use

 

Those two components together make Life of the Device in Microsoft's mind.

Neowinian

legspeed

Posted
Posted

Maybe this is unclear because there are a number of ways Windows users could have arrived at Win7 or Win8.1 including various upgrade paths.

 

Assuming you have a legitimate licensed copy of Win7 or Win8.1 -- or you are willing and able to break the law -- you get to upgrade to Win10 for free during the first year of the release of Win10 and that Win10 copy will get maintenance releases.

 

Windows licenses under Enterprise Licensing Agreements are different and your mileage may vary.

 

Looking at past preview programs, it seems UNLIKELY that a preview copy of Win10 that isn't, or can't be, associated with a licensed copy of Win7 or Win8.1 will continue to work past some as-yet unknown date.

 

Microsoft has had some trouble in the past with bridging previews of its operating systems (and other products) to fully licensed general release versions.  It's my OPINION that there's still some risk transitioning a Win10 preview environment to a Win10 production environment and you could possibly have to re-install Win10.

 

[i'm running Win10 as a VM under VMware, taking no chances.]

 

It is my opinion that in the next 24 to 36 months virtually all Microsoft products will become subscriptions since U.S. accounting rules already make Microsoft  report revenue and profitability more like a subscription than a "purchase" or a Perpetual Use License.  Thus, it's my opinion that Win10 will be that last major Microsoft product release offered with a perpetual use license.

 

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