compl3x Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 At the Mobile World Congress, HTC unveiled the HTC Vive which is being co-produce with Valve. This is yet another VR headset. Another device that has been announced for a market that is as yet non-existent. It's interesting that a market that doesn't exist yet is already saturated with products. I thought we could speculate wildly and squabble angrily about whether we think this whole VR headset business is going to be a gaming revolution or if it will be a fragmented mess that will be a flash in the pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XorpiZ Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 IMHO VR will never take off, since the creators of the headsets would need to agree on a "standard". The headsets are either expensive, cumbersome or a combination of both. Sure, some niche-fans will go buy a Morpheus, Oculus Rift or a Vive to play some of the few games, that actually support them. I think it will go the way of 3D. It will be hyped, make it to mainstream for a short while and then fail spectacularely. spenser.d and Showan 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compl3x Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 I fear you might be right. I also wonder if the nausea that was reported earlier on has been remedied? You really can't have a product that makes your consumer sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 3, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 3, 2015 It'll be fragmented for sure. However it's the first piece of what I'd call real future tech that I think will be incredibly cool to use/experience. It's not going to replace standard viewing for a long long time (the year 2150?), but it's certainly going to feel awesome to try out as a fledgling future tech. More so than 3D gaming (the precursor to VR) or motion. It brings both of those techs to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XorpiZ Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I fear you might be right. I also wonder if the nausea that was reported earlier on has been remedied? You really can't have a product that makes your consumer sick. Wasn't the issue that if the picture moved without you moving your eyes/head, you got sick? Or something like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compl3x Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 It'll be fragmented for sure. However it's the first piece of what I'd call real future tech that I think will be incredibly cool to use/experience. It's not going to replace standard viewing for a long long time (the year 2150?), but it's certainly going to feel awesome to try out as a fledgling future tech. More so than 3D gaming (the precursor to VR) or motion. It brings both of those techs to the next level. A lot of companies are pouring money big into this, I thought I misread the title of the first article I saw saying HTC and Valve were producing one together. Another issue which might be solved in the future but is a big deal now is how cumbersome the headsets look. They just look uncomfortable. Strapping something to my face which obscures my vision makes me a little anxious. Wasn't the issue that if the picture moved without you moving your eyes/head, you got sick? Or something like it? I think some of it has to do with motion blur. Not post-processing motion blur added for artistic reasons but pixel persistence. Here is a video if you are interested in learning more: Put simply, I haven;t read anything which suggests that any of this has been solved yet. That's potentially a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XorpiZ Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thanks, I'll have a look at them tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margrave Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think it's just the industry's newest gimick. I don't see it taking off, and becoming an essential piece of equipment. XorpiZ 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 3, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 3, 2015 A lot of companies are pouring money big into this, I thought I misread the title of the first article I saw saying HTC and Valve were producing one together. Another issue which might be solved in the future but is a big deal now is how cumbersome the headsets look. They just look uncomfortable. Strapping something to my face which obscures my vision makes me a little anxious. I think some of it has to do with motion blur. Not post-processing motion blur added for artistic reasons but pixel persistence. Here is a video if you are interested in learning more: Put simply, I haven;t read anything which suggests that any of this has been solved yet. That's potentially a big problem. When you wear 3D glasses you're conscious of how you look in "the real world" as you still see the real world. When engaging in VR you can't see the real world anymore, so for some that will mask how they look when they're engaging with "another world". If a comfy headset can be made, I'd wager a bet that anxiety over how you look will play less of a part than it does with 3D glasses. Watching something in 3D can also be a social event, VR is more of a personal event. Are you anxious about masturbating in public? I'd hope so In private, I'd hope not. Brandon H 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Asmodai MVC Posted March 4, 2015 MVC Share Posted March 4, 2015 At the Mobile World Congress, HTC unveiled the HTC Vive which is being co-produce with Valve. This is yet another VR headset. Another device that has been announced for a market that is as yet non-existent. It's interesting that a market that doesn't exist yet is already saturated with products. I thought we could speculate wildly and squabble angrily about whether we think this whole VR headset business is going to be a gaming revolution or if it will be a fragmented mess that will be a flash in the pan. I don't know of "gaming revolution" is a phrase I'd attach to it. I don't think it's going to go away though as motion gaming largely has after it's initial spike with the Wii/Kinect/Move. I suspect more people will buy VR glasses for their consoles in the next few years then steering wheels, flight sticks, and even the PS Vita but it's not going to even come close to what the Wii did or the Nintendo portables or anything crazy like that. So is that a "gaming revolution"? I'd say no but just becuase it's not doesn't mean it won't succeed as being a permanent new accessory type. I suspect, just like with AAA games, more VR headsets will sell on consoles than on PC/mobile but again just like AAA games the console version will be lower spec then the more expensive and less common PC version. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo control their console platforms and they don't have to be compatible with anything else so there won't be any more fragmentation there than there already is. Only Nintendo and MS don't currently have a VR solution (announced). Valve is going to try to become the standard for PC VR (Windows, Mac, and Linux) by leveraging Steam and the only real competitor I see to that would be if MS makes a Xbox/Win10+ VR solution (seems unlikely near term). Oculus will likely compete with Valve for PC but I personally think they'll lose on PC because Steam is a HUGE advantage for Valve, they were supposed to work together on PC but the Facebook deal seems to have killed that. Where Oculus will strive is licensing VR R&D to hardware companies and on mobile devices (like Samsung's Gear VR.) In the short term that likely means Oculus will be relegated to the fringe, even as the one that sparked this whole thing, but their long term prospects are still good as mobile SoCs are evolving VERY quickly and in time it looks like Oculus is in the lead to get a strong stand alone VR device that doesn't require a PC or console to do all the processing. The hardware just isn't there yet and even once it is it will take time to become affordable to the common consumer. In that sense it's good they got Facebook backing because as an independent they couldn't have survived playing the long game like they seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benplace Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 All of you are sooooo wrong.... As an owner of the Oculus DK2 I can tell you it IS the future. The sickness is fixed as long as you can maintain the FPS required. True 360 degree video is AMAZING... And there is work on 360 degree cameras. Imagine Christmas with the kids and you setup the 360 degree camera. Then 5, 10 years later instead of watching a video you are sitting on the couch again. Oh look behind you, it's uncle bob, look at his hair! Oculus has already started work on their "Story Studio" venture. The people that don't think it's going to take off and are saying its a gimmick obviously have never strapped on a DK2 with full positional head tracking and tried the few games and demos that support it. (Sightline the Chair, Elite Dangerous, Alien Isolation, Half Life 2" If you get to experience it you will understand why everyone is clamoring to make a headset... +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melfster Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I personally think all of these VR solution will not be great except for very niche experiences. Flight Sims, Racing games. I don't think FPS will work very well VR. On the other hand AR is going to be huge. I could see it having as great an impact as the mobile phone revolution. +Asmodai 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted March 4, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted March 4, 2015 All of you are sooooo wrong.... As an owner of the Oculus DK2 I can tell you it IS the future. The sickness is fixed as long as you can maintain the FPS required. True 360 degree video is AMAZING... And there is work on 360 degree cameras. Imagine Christmas with the kids and you setup the 360 degree camera. Then 5, 10 years later instead of watching a video you are sitting on the couch again. Oh look behind you, it's uncle bob, look at his hair! Oculus has already started work on their "Story Studio" venture. The people that don't think it's going to take off and are saying its a gimmick obviously have never strapped on a DK2 with full positional head tracking and tried the few games and demos that support it. (Sightline the Chair, Elite Dangerous, Alien Isolation, Half Life 2" If you get to experience it you will understand why everyone is clamoring to make a headset... i certainly hope you are right. i would like to try it out, but not sure where i can. EDIT: nevermind, i googled it, and there is a place i can try VR, so i will be going there sometime soon to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick H. Supervisor Posted March 4, 2015 Supervisor Share Posted March 4, 2015 I came across this today, which seems somewhat relevant to this subject: Of course, that doesn't mean to say that all companies are following suit, but I've been thinking about that "vicious cycle" idea for a while now. Developer: We're not going to create games for VR headsets until more people buy the headsets. Gamers: We're not going to buy the headsets until you start developing games for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruckWEB Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I fear you might be right. I also wonder if the nausea that was reported earlier on has been remedied? You really can't have a product that makes your consumer sick. They did it with 3D TV and the active glasses. A high percentage of people get dizzy 5 minutes after wearing them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUTZIFER Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have no interest in them Any topic I see about them I don't even bother reading, they just dont appeal to me. Way to big and bulky for me to be strapping on to my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiretap Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have a Zeiss VR One with my Samsung Galaxy S5. It is very cool, but VR just isn't developed enough yet. Everyone I let try my VR headset also thinks it is amazing. But, the resolution of my phone isn't high enough IMO, and you can still see pixels. There needs to be some serious development to create far better applications and games. We're not there yet. Hardware is almost there, but to fully enjoy it, you need at least 500ppi displays to minimize the screen door effect. I actually found head tracking is pretty good and doesn't drift on my phone. I use a MatCatz CTRL with some of my VR games and it makes for a good experience. In the future I'd like to see 4k displays that take up peripheral vision and don't have the screen door effect, arm/hand tracking to manipulate objects in the VR universe, lighter headsets you don't have to stick a heavy phone into, and better applications/games. I used to get nausea and headaches when I first tried my VR headset, but then I got used to it over the course of just trying it for 10 minutes a day. It took about 2 weeks to fully get used to it, wearing it longer and longer each day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAZMINATOR Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 They did it with 3D TV and the active glasses. A high percentage of people get dizzy 5 minutes after wearing them... My brother has 3DTV and we have been watching the 3D movies since he got his 3D TV... No problem since. If you or anyone have the health issues such as vertigo, dizziness, etc... Don't get the 3D TV.. If you are not sure, have a test run at the store that they have 3D displays on their walls or shelves and see how you are feeling with it. If you feel fine, you can buy 3D TV if you want. Otherwise move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blerk Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think ultimately an untethered device will win the mass consumer market, or at the very least - one with a MagSafe type connection to a cable. For many of the best applications of VR/AR that I've seen so far, the biggest restriction is the cable attached to expensive equipment that doesn't particularly like being dragged across floors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benplace Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have not tried a unit without positional head tracking, other than unplugging the camera from my DK2. When I do that the immersion immediately disappears. I can no longer lean in and look at the plant on the desk or look over the edge of my chair to the ground below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Until such time as they're all no more bulky than this: And are around $100 at the most, they will stay niche. soniqstylz and Max Norris 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soniqstylz Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 http://gizmodo.com/valve-vs-sony-whos-got-the-better-vr-experience-1689727283 Comparison between Morpheus and Vive (tl;dr, Morpheus is much more comfortable, but restricted by PS4 hardware and PSEye) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Asmodai MVC Posted March 6, 2015 MVC Share Posted March 6, 2015 http://gizmodo.com/valve-vs-sony-whos-got-the-better-vr-experience-1689727283 Comparison between Morpheus and Vive (tl;dr, Morpheus is much more comfortable, but restricted by PS4 hardware and PSEye) PS Eye was the PS3 hardware. Morpheus uses the creatively named PlayStation Camera for the PS4. I think it's an odd sentiment though. Who would have thought a PS4 VR solution would be restricted by PS4 hardware. Just like the PS4 has an inferior CPU and Gfx card than gamer PCs I have no doubt a PC based VR solution will have better specs. I bet the PC solution will also cost more to get those better specs and sell far less because buying the better spec PC and better spec VR hardware is going to cost a lot more than a PS4 + Morpheus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Norris Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Very "meh" on the idea. Wasn't interested back in the 90's, and not very interested now. Probably going to wind up like last time, expensive, very niche, poorly supported/standardized and eventually disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosense Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Ill never buy or use one. The games i like have zero benefit from VR or would be a horrible experience in VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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