official E3 2015 Sony Press Conference Discussion

[President Devil]

What surprised me was how many PS4 and PC titles there are.   I knew there going to be a lot Xbox + Windows titles but the amount PS4 and PC titles was amazing.  I guess the best console is the PC. Best of both worlds.

 

Bingo!

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Oculus and Valve are going for the premium experience.So yes both devices will be spec hungry and cost a bit more. Like i said Sony could've worked with Oculus\Valve to bring a similar device to ps4 without having to do all the R&D on their own. Heck even Razer making a VR kit, Sony could've came to them. But than again the CEO of Razer is a Xbox fanboy,

What would make you think Oculus and Valve would want to work with Sony? Sony arent even in the PC gaming realm, thats a conflict of interests right there. Oculus and Valve are making their own products and wouldn't want to cannibalise their brands by putting out their hardware on another companies network, let alone one that doesn't even have a PC gaming focus. Not to mention take away resources, time and money from their own projects?

It's no secret that Morpheus is going to cost less than Oculus and Valves devices, so from a business PoV why would either want their flagship headset potentially undermined by a model they've made for Sony that costs less?

No offence but I really don't think you're thinking smartly about the business proposal you're making.

[junkproject]

What would make you think Oculus and Valve would want to work with Sony? They're making their own products and wouldn't want to cannibalise their brands by putting out their hardware on another companies network. Not to mention take away resources, time and money from their own projects?

It's no secret that Morpheus is going to cost less than Oculus and Valves devices, so from a business PoV why would either want their flagship headset potentially undermined by a model they've made for Sony that costs less?

No offence but I really don't think you're thinking smartly about the business proposal you're making.

No offense taking, It's obvious that oculus\valve are open to work with other companies. Both companies just announce that they teamed up with Microsoft to push VR. Undermind? Because Morpheus is no where near what Oculus is doing.

 

Another year another billion in the red for Sony.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

No offense taking, It's obvious that oculus\valve are open to work with other companies. Both companies teamed up with Microsoft to push VR.

As MS themselves actually

a) Have a hand in PC gaming development

and

b) Aren't competing with them directly on the Xbox as HoloLens is its own beast.

There isn't a conflict of interests as there is with Sony.

I'm pretty sure the Sony engineers know their hardware better than anyone else as well, so what benefit is there to bringing in 3rd parties in the first place? I think this is a rather strange debate we are having, its from the realms of a fantasy land.

Another year another billion in the red for Sony.

Considering PS is now making profits this just goes to show how much research and thought you've put behind your proposals.

[junkproject]

As MS themselves actually

a) Have a hand in PC gaming development

and

b) Aren't competing with them directly on the Xbox as HoloLens is its own beast.

There isn't a conflict of interests as there is with Sony.

I'm pretty sure the Sony engineers know their hardware better than anyone else as well, so what benefit is there to bringing in 3rd parties in the first place? I think this is a rather strange debate we are having, its from the realms of a fantasy land.

Considering PS is now making profits this just goes to show how much research and thought you've put behind your proposals.

 

 

It's not all sunshine with the PS brand. Failures like the vita and ps tv isn't helping the bottom line for Sony as a whole.

 

Anyways Morpheus is going to go to the way side like the move\sixaxies\sony eye\wonder book.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

It's not all sunshine with the PS brand. Failures like the vita and ps tv sn't helping the bottom line for Sony as a whole.

That's not what I said. I merely highlighted profits for the division as a counter argument to this debate that started as R&D costs would somehow be lowered if Sony managed to find someone else to make their PS VR headset.

At no point was I giving an opinion on the failure or success of any product. Heck, not even Morpheus. Just that it is a daft idea to even think Oculus or Valve would have made a VR headset for Sony. A "junkproject" that idea is if you will

Edit: I see you removed your remark about Sony knowing more, but ill leave this point in my reply - And no I don't think Sony knows "more" about VR in general, but I do think they know more about the PS4 they built and how to actually get a decent VR experience running on very modest hardware (compared to PCs).

[President Devil]

It's not all sunshine with the PS brand. Failures like the vita and ps tv isn't helping the bottom line for Sony as a whole.

 

Anyways Morpheus is going to go to the way side like the move\sixaxies\sony eye\wonder book.

 

Pretty much. PS is running pretty much flat with minor profits and Sony as a whole still isn't on the rails after more than a decade of destroying itself.

The Vita is dead, no point in denying it and every PS accessory thus far has been poorly supported. It doesn't take much to realize Morpheus will fare the same way.

The PS4 will continue to sell on hype and sustain them a little longer, but it definitely isn't all sunshine for Sony and PS likewise.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The GT Shenmue 3 reaction was a bit nuts lol

 

 

Anyway some more info

 

- The story begins directly where Shenmue II ended

- May have arcade games (it's a kickstarter stretch goal)

- New gameplay features : retrieve fighting skills scrolls, part of fighting system, can be unlocked in mini-games, gambling, side quests. The scrolls will unlock super moves and increase Ryo's skills.

- Good relationships between Sega and Yu Suzuki. Sega gave all elements from Shenmue 1 and 2 that Yu Suzuki need for Shenmue 3

- C

[trooper11]

Its interesting to see the conversation switch around COD. Now that Sony is paying for the exclusive dlc and is trumpeting how they are now the definitive COD console, a lot of people now see it as a smart business move and accept it, even embrace it. It is certainly true, it is a good business move.

It's no secret that Morpheus is going to cost less than Oculus and Valves devices...

I would tend to agree with you, but will it really be significantly less? Wasn't there that vague reference to it costing 'several hundred' dollars by Sony recently?

HoloLens isn't going to be cheap either. I wouldn't be shocked if Morpheus is at least $300, maybe as much as $450. I still think Oculus will cost more, but Sony seem to be hinting at a fairly high price.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Its interesting to see the conversation switch around COD. Now that Sony is paying for the exclusive dlc and is trumpeting how they are now the definitive COD console, a lot of people now see it as a smart business move and accept it, even embrace it. It is certainly true, it is a good business move.

I would tend to agree with you, but will it really be significantly less? Wasn't there that vague reference to it costing 'several hundred' dollars by Sony recently?

HoloLens isn't going to be cheap either. I wouldn't be shocked if Morpheus is at least $300, maybe as much as $450. I still think Oculus will cost more, but Sony seem to be hinting at a fairly high price.

It is a smart business move, but its a shady practice Activision employ. There should never be timed DLC for a MP game. They done it with Destiny as well. They are the epitome of cheap slags.

$450?! That would be suicide. I still think it has to be $199-249.

[+Asmodai MVC]

With Xbox owners getting HoloLens Sony fans want something new to try. Whats the alternative if they don't adopt VR? Giving PS fans nothing? As we've already clarified a PC gaming VR headset was never going to work on a console. For financial reasons it's clearly easier for Sony to jump on the tech adopted by others as well, rather than try and create and fund a different experience like MS are with HoloLens.

 

I was with you until here but this part is just flat out wrong.

Xbox owners aren't getting HoloLens.  Hololens isn't a peripheral that attaches to an Xbox.  You don't need an Xbox at all for Hololens.  Hololens is a stand-alone computer with it's own CPU, GPU, etc. built in running it's own customized version of Windows 10.

Furthermore Sony has been working on VR since PS3.  They had prototypes running on the PS3 and PS Move was designed with VR in mind.  The PS3 lacked the horsepower to run VR though so it never advanced beyond the prototype stage but Sony absolutely did not make Project Morpheus in response to either the Oculus Rift or Hololens.  Project Morpheus predates both of them.  The PS4 was designed to work with VR from the start.  That's the main reason the Dual Shock 4s have the light on the front of them.

Again though you're right that console VR is never going to match PC VR but it's "good enough" and cheaper just like non-VR console graphics are never going to match PC game graphics but plenty of people still buy consoles anyway.

[junkproject]

$450?! That would be suicide. I still think it has to be $199-249.

 Not really, it's a stand alone device. The primiely focus is not gaming.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

 Not really, it's a stand alone device. The primiely focus is not gaming.

 

?

 

I was talking about Morpheus.

 

 

I was with you until here but this part is just flat out wrong.

Xbox owners aren't getting HoloLens.  Hololens isn't a peripheral that attaches to an Xbox.  You don't need an Xbox at all for Hololens.  Hololens is a stand-alone computer with it's own CPU, GPU, etc. built in running it's own customized version of Windows 10.

Furthermore Sony has been working on VR since PS3.  They had prototypes running on the PS3 and PS Move was designed with VR in mind.  The PS3 lacked the horsepower to run VR though so it never advanced beyond the prototype stage but Sony absolutely did not make Project Morpheus in response to either the Oculus Rift or Hololens.  Project Morpheus predates both of them.  The PS4 was designed to work with VR from the start.  That's the main reason the Dual Shock 4s have the light on the front of them.

Again though you're right that console VR is never going to match PC VR but it's "good enough" and cheaper just like non-VR console graphics are never going to match PC game graphics but plenty of people still buy consoles anyway.

 

 

I know it is, but MS will push the HoloLens on Xbox wherever they can. Whether it's gaming or not. It's going to actually get that, where as good luck getting VR gaming through Oculus on the One.

[+Asmodai MVC]

What would make you think Oculus and Valve would want to work with Sony? Sony arent even in the PC gaming realm, thats a conflict of interests right there. Oculus and Valve are making their own products and wouldn't want to cannibalise their brands by putting out their hardware on another companies network, let alone one that doesn't even have a PC gaming focus. Not to mention take away resources, time and money from their own projects?

It's no secret that Morpheus is going to cost less than Oculus and Valves devices, so from a business PoV why would either want their flagship headset potentially undermined by a model they've made for Sony that costs less?

No offence but I really don't think you're thinking smartly about the business proposal you're making.

 

For the record Oculus, Valve, and Sony HAVE all been working together on VR.

Sony's been working on VR the longest but when Oculus did so well on their kickstarter they invited each other to come see tech demoes and help each other out.

It's exactly because they don't see each other as competitors that this tech sharing is possible.  Project Morpheus is just for PlayStation while Oculus Rift runs on PC as well as mobile.

Valve was working on their own VR but stopped work on it after the Oculus kickstarter success and worked with Oculus to improve the Rift, again sharing technology.  Valve doesn't really care about hardware (which is why HTC makes the Vive and not Valve directly.)  Valve restarted their VR only after Oculus agreed to be bought by Facebook.  That turned Valve and Oculus from collaborators to competitors.

Pretty much every time there is a large get together of Oculus developers showing work to the public Sony is there too.  A lot of the Oculus rift projects are just tech demos or free add-ons to existing games but in most cases if there is a game designed from the ground up to be a commercial (i.e. not free) VR game for Oculus a Sony rep has talked to them about bringing to the Morpheus as well.  Oculus doesn't mind that because Sony isn't trying to get them to go EXCLUSIVELY Morpheus, they want them on BOTH platforms.  An excellent example is EVE: Valkyrie, it's the poster child of commercial VR projects and will launch on both Morpheus and Rift, both Sony and Oculus are fine with that because they don't see themselves as competitors.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

For the record Oculus, Valve, and Sony HAVE all been working together on VR.

Sony's been working on VR the longest but when Oculus did so well on their kickstarter they invited each other to come see tech demoes and help each other out.

It's exactly because they don't see each other as competitors that this tech sharing is possible.  Project Morpheus is just for PlayStation while Oculus Rift runs on PC as well as mobile.

Valve was working on their own VR but stopped work on it after the Oculus kickstarter success and worked with Oculus to improve the Rift, again sharing technology.  Valve doesn't really care about hardware (which is why HTC makes the Vive and not Valve directly.)  Valve restarted their VR only after Oculus agreed to be bought by Facebook.  That turned Valve and Oculus from collaborators to competitors.

Pretty much every time there is a large get together of Oculus developers showing work to the public Sony is there too.  A lot of the Oculus rift projects are just tech demos or free add-ons to existing games but in most cases if there is a game designed from the ground up to be a commercial (i.e. not free) VR game for Oculus a Sony rep has talked to them about bringing to the Morpheus as well.  Oculus doesn't mind that because Sony isn't trying to get them to go EXCLUSIVELY Morpheus, they want them on BOTH platforms.  An excellent example is EVE: Valkyrie, it's the poster child of commercial VR projects and will launch on both Morpheus and Rift, both Sony and Oculus are fine with that because they don't see themselves as competitors.

 

Working together to push VR to the market is one thing, that benefits everyone's finances, but the two big names are working shared in the PC space, Sony don't have that goal. Neither of them are going to put their efforts into working directly in the closed off console space, and any hardware they could make for the PS4 would have to be on a separate timeline from their PC sets (PS4 cannot power either).

 

Any of my remarks about a conflict of interests and competition really came from the discussions to do with Oculus actually making a headset for Sony. As things stand they're all "buddies" in trying to drive VR to popularity.

[+Asmodai MVC]

Working together to push VR to the market is one thing, that benefits everyone's finances, but the two big names are working shared in the PC space, Sony don't have that goal. Neither of them are going to put their efforts into working directly in the closed off console space, and any hardware they could make for the PS4 would have to be on a separate timeline from their PC sets (PS4 cannot power either).

 

Any of my remarks about a conflict of interests and competition really came from the discussions to do with Oculus actually making a headset for Sony. As things stand they're all "buddies" in trying to drive VR to popularity.

 

Who are you calling "the two big names"?  Valve and Oculus?  They are now competitors, they aren't sharing anything anymore.  The facebook buyout of Oculus soured their relationship.

Oculus HAS put effort into working directly with Sony.  They share headset techniques/technology even if they don't attach to similar things.  Heck Oculus shares with Samsung for their GearVR that attaches to a mobile phone... that's even weaker than the PS4.

 

You are putting WAY too much attention on what the devices are attached to and not the actual devices themselves.  They've shared techniques/technology to reduce latency, etc. in building the headsets because the headsets are fundamentally the same no matter if they're connected to a PC or a console, even if there is a resolution difference between them.  Just because Oculus is aiming for a higher resolution and requires a more powerful PC to drive it doesn't mean they can't use some of the things Sony did with their headset and likewise Sony use their solutions to common VR problems.

 

Also again Oculus couldn't make a headset for Sony because Sony's VR predates Oculus.  Oculus doesn't want to make a console VR solution because they're going for the higher end and they don't want to be limited by console specs but again that doesn't mean they can't share VR tech.  Also Oculus want's to iterate quickly.  You'll see a Rift CV2 probably a year or two after the CV1 launches and a CV3 a year or two after that probably.  Consoles stick with one solution per 5-10 year generation.  Project Morpheus when it launches will be the VR solution for PS4 for it's entire lifetime.  Project Morpheus II will be for PS5 if there is one.

[trooper11]

It is a smart business move, but its a shady practice Activision employ. There should never be timed DLC for a MP game. They done it with Destiny as well. They are the epitome of cheap slags.

The real question is then, does it work? If it does, then even if you hate it, you also have to kind of like it.

$450?! That would be suicide. I still think it has to be $199-249.

You did see that quote though didn't you?

I think people are really underestimating the cost of this tech. VR is not cheap, even a console version. Unless Sony plans to eat huge losses, I would be very surprised to see a price below $300. If they do manage that, I would be very curious to see what they did to achieve that.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Who are you calling "the two big names"?  Valve and Oculus?  They are now competitors, they aren't sharing anything anymore.  The facebook buyout of Oculus soured their relationship.

Oculus HAS put effort into working directly with Sony.  They share headset techniques/technology even if they don't attach to similar things.  Heck Oculus shares with Samsung for their GearVR that attaches to a mobile phone... that's even weaker than the PS4.

 

You are putting WAY too much attention on what the devices are attached to and not the actual devices themselves.  They've shared techniques/technology to reduce latency, etc. in building the headsets because the headsets are fundamentally the same no matter if they're connected to a PC or a console, even if there is a resolution difference between them.  Just because Oculus is aiming for a higher resolution and requires a more powerful PC to drive it doesn't mean they can't use some of the things Sony did with their headset and likewise Sony use their solutions to common VR problems.

 

Also again Oculus couldn't make a headset for Sony because Sony's VR predates Oculus.  Oculus doesn't want to make a console VR solution because they're going for the higher end and they don't want to be limited by console specs but again that doesn't mean they can't share VR tech.  Also Oculus want's to iterate quickly.  You'll see a Rift CV2 probably a year or two after the CV1 launches and a CV3 a year or two after that probably.  Consoles stick with one solution per 5-10 year generation.  Project Morpheus when it launches will be the VR solution for PS4 for it's entire lifetime.  Project Morpheus II will be for PS5 if there is one.

 

Because what you're saying may matter during the development cycle to get VR to market, but once VR is on the market they all want the biggest share of the pie to be the most popular device. If none of them collaborated now then the tech would not have been coming to us in 2016 because everyone would be away trying their own thing and not trying to get some sort of foundation laid for developers all to be able to do VR, regardless of the product. The kind of standards such as required FPS, bare minimum resolution, comfort of the devices, etc.

 

My argument never was that they simply do not work together, it's been discussing the end product, the consumer product, and how Oculus would not build that for Sony because once we reach the cold hard cash consumers will spend they care about their own product, not Sony's.

 

trooper11, on 17 Jun 2015 - 21:27, said:

The real question is then, does it work? If it does, then even if you hate it, you also have to kind of like it.

 

 

You did see that quote though didn't you?

 

I think people are really underestimating the cost of this tech. VR is not cheap, even a console version. Unless Sony plans to eat huge losses, I would be very surprised to see a price below $300. If they do manage that, I would be very curious to see what they did to achieve that.

 

 

 

No you don't, you do not have to have an emotional response of agreement (a positive opinion, liking it) with a non-emotional response of agreement (a factual outcome, hardware sales).

 

A lot of things in life work successfully that have outcomes, or side effects that you dislike. As many would say it's a good business decision because it will shift PS consoles, but it's a ###### consumer practice that not many gamers will like.

 

I've seen the quote for a couple hundred dollars, but there's been many quotes of how it has to be affordable. The figures I stated are my opinion of how not to make it DOA.

[trooper11]

Sony is going all in on their own VR solution, they want to own that market for their console. Whatever collaboration has been going on will end once each releases real hardware for sale. Right now, its beneficial to lean on each other for one big PR message: VR is amazing and you must buy in

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Sony is going all in on their own VR solution, they want to own that market for their console. Whatever collaboration has been going on will end once each releases real hardware for sale. Right now, its beneficial to lean on each other for one big PR message: VR is amazing and you must buy in

 

We agree!!!

[+Asmodai MVC]

My argument never was that they simply do not work together, it's been discussing the end product, the consumer product, and how Oculus would not build that for Sony because once we reach the cold hard cash consumers will spend they care about their own product, not Sony's.

Again you make it sound like Oculus is the pioneer here, they're not. Project Morpheus existed YEARS before Oculus as a company or the kickstarter ever existed.

Sony had already spent YEARS of R&D on Project Morpheus before Oculus came around so going with Oculus wouldn't have saved them much at all even if Oculus wanted to make the hardware for the PlayStation.

Furthermore if Oculus made the hardware it would probably be worse. The Rift is better than Project Morpheus because it can require a higher spec device to run on not because Oculus has better VR chops.

Project Morpheus was intended to launch during the PS4s life before the PS4 ever launched. Now maybe the collaboration helped shave a few months here or there but Project Morpheus probably would have launched in 2016 or 2017 even if Oculus and SteamVR never existed.

Sony and Oculus will continue to collaborate on VR tech after the hardware launches because they don't compete.

A consumer can't CHOOSE to buy a Rift for their PS4. They can't choose to buy Morpheus for your PC or mobile device.

Some people will have one and not the other, just like some people have PCs and not consoles and vice versa. Some people will have both just like some people have both PC and console.

Sony sees the PlayStation's competition as Xbox and Nintendo, so long as neither of them release a VR device they have no competition.

Oculus sees it's competition on PC as Valve not Sony. There aren't many people who are going to buy a Rift and a Vive. They're competing for the same audience to be the Windows/Mac/Linux VR headset of choice.

That's in stark contract to before the Facebook buyout when Valve was helping Oculus develop the hardware hoping that Oculus would provide the hardware for a shared API.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Naughty Dogs attention to detail is unrivaled

[soniqstylz]

Little known fact: Horizon is based on real historical battles that took place in ancient Northern Europe.

 

 

 

 

(attack the giant robot dinosaur in its weak point for MASSIVE DAMAGE)

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Little known fact: Horizon is based on real historical battles that took place in ancient Northern Europe.

 

 

 

 

(attack the giant robot dinosaur in its weak point for MASSIVE DAMAGE)

 

MASSIVE.

 

By the way I noticed you posted that "move 2.0" picture

 

So that Move 2 leak was nothing?

 

It's not a leak. It was a fake. ... some design studio or something.

 

 

http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/17/an-intimate-chat-with-sony-playstation-shuhei-yoshida/

[soniqstylz]

Curses, foiled again!